1306 réponses à ce sujet

[jbrand2002uk]

I would point out whether the characters,story,pacing and themes in godfather are better than Diehard is a matter of opinion and opinion is subjective not fact same applies for games so its simply not possible to say those elements are factually better in DAO than DA2 or vice versa as its all subjective

Modifié par jbrand2002uk, 05 juin 2012 - 10:18 .

[batlin]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

I would point out whether the characters,story,pacing and themes in godfather are better than Diehard is a matter of opinion and opinion is subjective not fact same applies for games so its simply not possible to say those elements are factually better in DAO than DA2 or vice versa as its all subjective

I'm sorry, but that's wrong. The characters in Godfather have far more motivations and traits to them than any in Die Hard. The themes in Godfather, like business vs. one's personal life, legitimacy vs. respect, the world of men vs. the world of women, all are more complex and deeply examined than the themes in Die Hard. In Godfather, almost every scene has a very specific and necessary purpose.

Hell, it doesn't even have to be between two good movies. Can you tell me, with all honesty, that one could say with validity that Twilight is a better movie than The Shawshank Redemption purely because they like Twilight more?

[jbrand2002uk]

I gather you havent heard of the idea that less is more or bigger isnt always better No ?

[batlin]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

I gather you havent heard of the idea that less is more or bigger isnt always better No ?

That has nothing to do with the question. Deeper more complex themes, characters, and plots are better than shallow, simple alternatives.

You didn't answer my question though: Would you say that someone could be correct in saying that Twilight is a better movie than The Shawshank Redemption only because they like Twilight more?

[jbrand2002uk]

I would say to them yes but generally no because its an their opinion that one is better than the other because they liked it more the reasons why they liked it while relevant to them are irrelevant to anyone as each individual's likes and dislikes and tolerances are just as unique as each individual so therefore that person's verdict is subjective having a larger group of people sharing that verdict does not make it fact or more valid than any alternate or contradicting verdict.

[batlin]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

I would say to them yes but generally no because its an their opinion that one is better than the other because they liked it more the reasons why they liked it while relevant to them are irrelevant to anyone as each individual's likes and dislikes and tolerances are just as unique as each individual so therefore that person's verdict is subjective having a larger group of people sharing that verdict does not make it fact or more valid than any alternate or contradicting verdict.

From that grammatical abortion you just posted I gather that your answer to my question is "yes".

And there you have it, folks. In order to believe that Dragon Age 2 can be accepted as better game than Dragon Age: Origins you must also believe that Twilight can be accepted as better movie than The Shawshank Redemption.

Are you reading this, David Gaider? I sure hope so.

Modifié par batlin, 05 juin 2012 - 11:26 .

[wsandista]

To all of those who do not believe that critical acclaim or sales figures prove that DA2 was less well-received by the group DA is marketed to or indicates that DA2 went the wrong direction I have a question. How was DA2 a step in the right direction?

batlin wrote...

And there you have it, folks. In order to believe that Dragon Age 2 can be accepted as better game than Dragon Age: Origins you must also believe that Twilight can be accepted as better movie than The Shawshank Redemption.

I think I will take this as my signature, if you don't mind.

Modifié par wsandista, 05 juin 2012 - 11:35 .

[batlin]

wsandista wrote...

I think I will take this as my signature, if you don't mind.

Sure, go right ahead

Modifié par batlin, 05 juin 2012 - 11:46 .

[jbrand2002uk]

If given a choice between 2 similar games/movies, 1 game or movie appealing to an individual or group more than the other is not indicative of the products quality, appeal requires enjoyment and while certain physical elements/factors such as story,combat mechanics etc can enhance or detract from enjoyment, enjoyment is by its very nature an emotional response to stimuli and emotions are subjective.

If 100 people watch the movie The Green Mile and all take a survey after 40 of them find the story of a gentle man with an amazing gift sentanched to death so moving it made them cry, whereas the other 60 felt the story was ok but had no emotional impact on them at all.

Does this mean its a fact that the story is bad because the majority of the test group did not react to a story designed to resonate on a emotional level? No it does not and neither does it make that statement more valid because more people believe it.

That would be like claiming that God does not exist is a fact if there were more atheists in the world than all the other faiths combined

[Melca36]

wsandista wrote...

To all of those who do not believe that critical acclaim or sales figures prove that DA2 was less well-received by the group DA is marketed to or indicates that DA2 went the wrong direction I have a question. How was DA2 a step in the right direction?

batlin wrote...

And there you have it, folks. In order to believe that Dragon Age 2 can be accepted as better game than Dragon Age: Origins you must also believe that Twilight can be accepted as better movie than The Shawshank Redemption.

I think I will take this as my signature, if you don't mind.

I think the people in denial should listen to the last panel. The developer have admitted to missteps with the game.
They acknowledged them. If the game had been a HUGE hit, they likely would not have done that.

DA:2 was a good game but it was not a great game & the fact they want feedback for the next game speaks volumes.

[wsandista]

Melca36 wrote...

wsandista wrote...

To all of those who do not believe that critical acclaim or sales figures prove that DA2 was less well-received by the group DA is marketed to or indicates that DA2 went the wrong direction I have a question. How was DA2 a step in the right direction?

batlin wrote...

And there you have it, folks. In order to believe that Dragon Age 2 can be accepted as better game than Dragon Age: Origins you must also believe that Twilight can be accepted as better movie than The Shawshank Redemption.

I think I will take this as my signature, if you don't mind.

I think the people in denial should listen to the last panel. The developer have admitted to missteps with the game.
They acknowledged them. If the game had been a HUGE hit, they likely would not have done that.

DA:2 was a good game but it was not a great game & the fact they want feedback for the next game speaks volumes.

Honestly, I doubt I will even get a straight answer.
DA2 fanbros seem to be allergic to facts, logic, and reason.

[jbrand2002uk]

that might because what constitutes facts logic and reason is subjective and will never be absolute 1 man's patriot is another man's terrorist which is right? both

[wsandista]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

that might because what constitutes facts logic and reason is subjective and will never be absolute 1 man's patriot is another man's terrorist which is right? both

I honestly can't decide what is worse: your grammar or the points you attempt to make.

Please tell me you're a troll.

[jbrand2002uk]

wsandista wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

that might because what constitutes facts logic and reason is subjective and will never be absolute 1 man's patriot is another man's terrorist which is right? both

I honestly can't decide what is worse: your grammar or the points you attempt to make.

Please tell me you're a troll.

Sorry to disappoint but your not even close, as I'm neither Animal,Vegetable or Mineral:innocent: 

[wsandista]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

wsandista wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

that might because what constitutes facts logic and reason is subjective and will never be absolute 1 man's patriot is another man's terrorist which is right? both

I honestly can't decide what is worse: your grammar or the points you attempt to make.

Please tell me you're a troll.

Sorry to disappoint but your not even close, as I'm neither Animal,Vegetable or Mineral:innocent: 

I seriously doubt you're the very model of a modern Major-General.

[jbrand2002uk]

It could be worse, I could be either an extension of you subconscious mind or a figment of your imagination in which case you'd be talking to yourself which would be quite maddening to say the least

[Sacred_Fantasy]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

@Batlin Lol at the button of Awesome even more inaccurate but so damn funny i bit my tongue.

As for a more reliable metric to judge direction I'd say there isn't one sales charts dont work because they're lacking in any sufficient detail to conclude the reasons for lack of sales, same case with polls 3145 people polled isn't an insignificant number of people however its a tiny number compared to the total sales so its to small to be conclusive one way or another.
The problem is current data collection is merely a collection of individual opinions and as long as opinions are subjective they cant be used as facts one way or another.

the only definitive way to say for sure if a product is a success is if the money earned from sales was greater than the cost of production then its a success if its less well then its a flop

The poll and sales charts don't matter anymore when we already have the end results. Only 2 DLCs are produced. No Ultimate Edition because no retailers going to take it. They stop working on DA 2.  It's the evidence.  It so obvious whether you like it or not. And that's precisely what going to happen to DA franchise if they do nothing about it. DA franchise will be dead.  No one going to work on title that commercially failure no matter how much you think. You don't have to rely on polls and charts to know that simple logic.  Sticking to DA 2's direction is a sure direction heading to dead end. Because DA is not ME. They're two different games and play with two different expectation. A lot of people can tolerate ME direction. A lot of people don't think autodialogue is an issue. A lot of people don't see playing the role of Sheppard but rather directing Sheppard like directing Pac Man with guns - whose character is not player's creation. A lot of people didn't even think ME is an RPG but a shooter.  The same thing cannot be said to DA 2 just because they're both action RPG. Therefore  you can not Mass Effecting Dragon Age. It's a misstep direction and  expectation. Let the player create their own character  and play their role properly without the developer trying to be puppet master behind narrative to direct player all the way from choices, action to PC's thoughts, motive and  emotion. It's dumb and it's JRPG. This is not Mass Effect. This is Dragon Age.

[wsandista]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

It could be worse, I could be either an extension of you subconscious mind or a figment of your imagination in which case you'd be talking to yourself which would be quite maddening to say the least

If that were the case, I would recommend Remedial English to that particular extension of my subconscious. I would especially stress the use of periods, so that every statement made wouldn't be a rambling run-on sentence.

@Sacred Fantasy
I wholeheartedly agree with the point of your post, however DA2 technically had 3 content DLCs and two item-pack DLCs. Just trying to be accurate so DA2 fanbros don't crucify an excellent point for having a small error.

Modifié par wsandista, 06 juin 2012 - 01:33 .

[jbrand2002uk]

on that basis Sacred it could be said DAO was a failure as not all the DLC that was planned for it was released or finished so saying DA2 is a failure because only 2 dlc's were produced and an expansion was cancelled would also be saying DAO was a failure unless of course your saying DAO is a special exception to this

[Sacred_Fantasy]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

on that basis Sacred it could be said DAO was a failure as not all the DLC that was planned for it was released or finished so saying DA2 is a failure because only 2 dlc's were produced and an expansion was cancelled would also be saying DAO was a failure unless of course your saying DAO is a special exception to this

Really? 8 DLCs compare to 2 DLCs says different things. Did they cancel Awakening and Ultimate Edition too?  

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 06 juin 2012 - 01:40 .

[jbrand2002uk]

there was up 16 DLC's in the pipeline for DAO yet only 8 were released and tbh most of the one's we got were not very good anyway

[wsandista]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

on that basis Sacred it could be said DAO was a failure as not all the DLC that was planned for it was released or finished so saying DA2 is a failure because only 2 dlc's were produced and an expansion was cancelled would also be saying DAO was a failure unless of course your saying DAO is a special exception to this

Which DAO DLC were cancelled?

DA2 is a failure because it failed to sell as much as DAO. There simply isn't the demand for the product, so DLC for it was scrapped. There will be no Ultimate Edition will be released because vendors do not believe it will sell. DAO has an Ultimate Edition because DAO proved it could sell. DAO>DA2 simply because DAO sold more units, and continues to sell at a higher price than DA2.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

there was up 16 DLC's in the pipeline for DAO yet only 8 were released and tbh most of the one's we got were not very good anyway

16? Then they overestimate themselves. Their own ME 2 is not sustainable up to 16 DLC. But that's doesn't  show DAO and ME 2 are flop. Since they have no problem releasing Ultimate Edition in the end and the retailers still took it.  DA 2 is flop. No retailers going to sell DA 2 Ultimate edition. 

[jbrand2002uk]

Sales numbers are not indicative of quality, unless of course your are saying COD franchise is the best in the world since they have sales figures that make DAO look like a minor game from some backwater indie developer.

it was reported quite openly that more DLC for DAO was planned but was never finshed or started and theres nothing special about DAO UE its simply the core game and all DLC in one neat inclusive package I know this because I have it

[Sacred_Fantasy]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

Sales numbers are not indicative of quality, unless of course your are saying COD franchise is the best in the world since they have sales figures that make DAO look like a minor game from some backwater indie developer.

it was reported quite openly that more DLC for DAO was planned but was never finshed or started and theres nothing special about DAO UE its simply the core game and all DLC in one neat inclusive package I know this because I have it

Then perhaps you miss Mark Darrah's statement , "At the moment no retailers is interested to take it." Did it ever happen before?  

Sales numbers don't have to indicate quality. What's important is sales number indicate game's life. You can make RPG of all the time but what's the point if you're selling only 400K copies? 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 06 juin 2012 - 01:56 .