1306 réponses à ce sujet

[Realmzmaster]

I do believe that FedEx quests have been a staple of cRPGs since their inception. I do not remember any cRPGs that did not have them which includes DAO. Including quests to kill giant rats. The FedEx quests have always been an easy way to build up a character gradually which each new quest being harder than the previous. In some cRPGs a whole area had simple quests which included FedEx quests. THis way the character or party could be built up to handle the more demanding areas.

You may see less FedEx quests, but they are going no where because they serve a purpose.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Realmzmaster wrote...

I do believe that FedEx quests have been a staple of cRPGs since their inception. I do not remember any cRPGs that did not have them which includes DAO. Including quests to kill giant rats. The FedEx quests have always been an easy way to build up a character gradually which each new quest being harder than the previous. In some cRPGs a whole area had simple quests which included FedEx quests. THis way the character or party could be built up to handle the more demanding areas.

You may see less FedEx quests, but they are going no where because they serve a purpose.

I'm playing NWN2 right now, and I don't see any FedEx quests so far.

I'm reasonably confident neither Ultima IV nor Ultima V contains FedEx quests.  My first CRPG, Questron, contained no FedEx quests (or any side-quests at all, for that matter).  I don't remember any FedEx quests in either Ultima Underworld game.

FedEx quests might be a relatively new development.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 06 juin 2012 - 06:37 .

[Realmzmaster]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

I do believe that FedEx quests have been a staple of cRPGs since their inception. I do not remember any cRPGs that did not have them which includes DAO. Including quests to kill giant rats. The FedEx quests have always been an easy way to build up a character gradually which each new quest being harder than the previous. In some cRPGs a whole area had simple quests which included FedEx quests. THis way the character or party could be built up to handle the more demanding areas.

You may see less FedEx quests, but they are going no where because they serve a purpose.

I'm playing NWN2 right now, and I don't see any FedEx quests so far.

I'm reasonably confident neither Ultima IV nor Ultima V contains FedEx quests.  My first CRPG, Questron, contained no FedEx quests (or any side-quests at all, for that matter).  I don't remember any FedEx quests in either Ultima Underworld game.

FedEx quests might be a relatively new development.

No there were FedEx quests in the Might and Magic series starting with MM2 Nordon's Quest is to get a goblet from a cave and return it to him. That was back in 1988.  Also the delivery of Vellum Scroll and other FedEx quests in Might and Magic 1 back in 1986. FedEx quests have been around for quite some time.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 06 juin 2012 - 07:04 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Right, I remember the FedEx quests in Might & Magic 2.

In principle, I don't object to FedEx quests. Recovering a lost item can be a fine quest as long as it's more than just travelling to a location, picking something up, and taking it back. Having to devise a plan to take an item from a dragon's lair would be a perfectly good quest, FedEx or not.

But my point here is that not all CRPGs have FedEx quests in them. Again, I'm surprised by the general lack of side-quests at all in NWN2. I haven't seen a FedEx quest yet.

[Realmzmaster]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Right, I remember the FedEx quests in Might & Magic 2.

In principle, I don't object to FedEx quests. Recovering a lost item can be a fine quest as long as it's more than just travelling to a location, picking something up, and taking it back. Having to devise a plan to take an item from a dragon's lair would be a perfectly good quest, FedEx or not.

But my point here is that not all CRPGs have FedEx quests in them. Again, I'm surprised by the general lack of side-quests at all in NWN2. I haven't seen a FedEx quest yet.

I agree. When done properly FedEx quests can be very good. NWN2 has no sidequests or FedEx quests that I remember.  Been a while since I played the game. The expansion Mask of the Betrayer is also very good.

[Melca36]

Realmzmaster wrote...

I do believe that FedEx quests have been a staple of cRPGs since their inception. I do not remember any cRPGs that did not have them which includes DAO. Including quests to kill giant rats. The FedEx quests have always been an easy way to build up a character gradually which each new quest being harder than the previous. In some cRPGs a whole area had simple quests which included FedEx quests. THis way the character or party could be built up to handle the more demanding areas.

You may see less FedEx quests, but they are going no where because they serve a purpose.

I have no trouble with a few of them but when there are over a dozen, thats when I get annoyed. I would rather have small quests like Raiders on the Cliffs or Magistrates Orders than those FedEx quests

[Abispa]

ME3 had FedEx quests VERY similar to DA2, but Bioware added just enough codex and character interaction to each item to give them just enough weight to not be insulting. Or not. I've still seen players complain about them.

[Melca36]

Abispa wrote...

ME3 had FedEx quests VERY similar to DA2, but Bioware added just enough codex and character interaction to each item to give them just enough weight to not be insulting. Or not. I've still seen players complain about them.

I tolerated them but found them disappointing. It made me think game developers only pander to lazy gamers now.

[batlin]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

in answer to eroeru's question the answer would be no because lack of smoothness was one of many problems with DAO's combat it was jerky and sluggish the party AI was appalling because even when you made sure via the tactics screen that your party members would not steal your XP by attacking the enemy you have targeted they would still attack your target stealing your xp.

Lol....that's not how xp works. Everyone gets equal xp for killing an enemy, even party members in your camp.

[Sylvius the Mad]

batlin wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

in answer to eroeru's question the answer would be no because lack of smoothness was one of many problems with DAO's combat it was jerky and sluggish the party AI was appalling because even when you made sure via the tactics screen that your party members would not steal your XP by attacking the enemy you have targeted they would still attack your target stealing your xp.

Lol....that's not how xp works. Everyone gets equal xp for killing an enemy, even party members in your camp.

DAO was supposed to give extra XP for scoring the killing blow, and less XP for characters who were knocked unconscious.

As far as I know, it did that.

And DAO didn't actually give any XP to party members in camp.  They were given XP whenever they rejoined the party to bring them to a minimum of the start of the level below the Warden.  So if you left someone in the camp, fought one encouter, and then retrieved him, he would have earned 0 XP since you'd last checked.

[LinksOcarina]

wsandista wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...
Well now here is a question then. Did anyone here play A Game of Thrones by Cyanide Studios?

The reason I ask is because the combat and RPG mechanics are a throwback of sorts to that type of game Origns was. But, the game is not that good. 

So, is it really a winning formula, or is Dragon Age just an exception to the rule regarding its mechanics, which, like it or not, are fairly archaic by modern standards? That, if you ask me, is a more important question.

Also, regardless of sales in this case, Dragon Age is not going anywhere. This is a multimedia franchise now, not just a game series. Even if the sales tank, the games will still come out, like Final Fantasy. So again, it becomes an exception to the rule because the comics, the novels, hell the anime, are all proof of its own success. 

How exactly are they the same formula? From the combat trailer I saw, the GoT RPG looks little like DAO, or any RTwP rpg.

god this thread moved too fast...


It is the same formula in regards to how the combat is presented. It basically has stat-based combat that is automatic attacking, where you can imput special moves that have cooldowns against opponents. The only thing I noticed that was different was that the game doesnt pause when you implement those moves, it just slows time down. 

hussey 92 wrote...

I believe DA2's expansion was cancelled do to the declining sales of DA2.  So sales can have a big effect on even multimedia franchises.  

Also alot of people consider the Dragon Age franchise to only be good for one game (Origins).  So DA3 will determine how good of a franchise Dragon Age really is.
 

Possible, but like I said the franchise is not going anywhere, it is now part of the pop culture. We have a table top game, comics, fan movies, animated movies, games, facebook games, fan art, etc. 

Even if we never see another main game from BioWare, we will still see people use the brand in the end.

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 06 juin 2012 - 09:55 .

[eroeru]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

batlin wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

in answer to eroeru's question the answer would be no because lack of smoothness was one of many problems with DAO's combat it was jerky and sluggish the party AI was appalling because even when you made sure via the tactics screen that your party members would not steal your XP by attacking the enemy you have targeted they would still attack your target stealing your xp.

Lol....that's not how xp works. Everyone gets equal xp for killing an enemy, even party members in your camp.

DAO was supposed to give extra XP for scoring the killing blow, and less XP for characters who were knocked unconscious.

As far as I know, it did that.

And DAO didn't actually give any XP to party members in camp.  They were given XP whenever they rejoined the party to bring them to a minimum of the start of the level below the Warden.  So if you left someone in the camp, fought one encouter, and then retrieved him, he would have earned 0 XP since you'd last checked.

That was one of the first things I tested, and it really was just a few meager XP more/less. But though the extra XP was unsignificant and irrelevant, it made the game a tiny bit more interesting, the fluctuations in levelling up gave a more natural feel for the game.
Also it's nice to test these things in games and come up with interesting/meaningful results. 

[LinksOcarina]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

I don't play The Game of Throne. I'm not impressed and I'm not interested to play it. Solely based on Trailers and Review. Mind you the reviews are positive.

I think what constitue DAO uniqueness compare to The Game of Throne is BioWare's own reputation and fanbase. I was a Neverwinter Nights fan so BioWare's name isn't something new to me. If you ask me, I bought DAO after a year after it was release. So product awareness it also one of the factors which could contribute to why DAO wasn't a smash hit after release compared to Sykrim or ME 3 or even DA 2. There wasn't much hype about DA O on the net. But then again I was into strategy games and modding more than RPG, since RPG beside JRPG was a big flop to me. I only came across DAO, one year later, when I search for Neverwinter Night 3 and Mods. But it was modding community that drive me to purchase DAO. So mod is another factor that explain DAO slow growth in sales and still sell today. It's a minor factor but still a decisive factor that keep DAO's name on the radar, among modding community, at least. And advantage that fully utilized by TES series - Over 2 millions total downloads recorded at Skyrim Nexus alone. And if you combined those figures with Steam downloads, that figure could easily beat any top selling games that BioWare have ever produce. 

But in the end, I think what makes The Game of Throne popular despite being "a bad game" is marketing, overhyped reviews and different expectation - which DA 2  fail to compete with - probably due to backlash it received. 

I don't buy non-game material. But I tend to think those comics, the novels, anime etc.. depend largely on the success of DA games itself and BioWare's reputation. It will tank too if DA franchise still flop in the future. So it's not a safe bet unless those comics, novels etc become a phenomenon - and I doubt that would happen.

Just my 2 cent. . 

Well nothing will ever become a phenomenon anymore, when it does it becomes marketed and people just shout sellout when that happens because its not cool anymore. The only lasting phenomenon I can think of is Star Wars and Dr. Who, and that is due to diehard fans. But int he end it just has to be sustainable, and that is what the fandom is doing. All of these extra bits, we don't need to read it, or see it, or play it if we don't want to, but it becomes the expanded universe in a way where it gives extra stories and characters, ideas and experiences, to latch onto. 

As far as the rest, I get that modding is another factor, but thats a factor that is lumped into the fandom, it is something that Dragon Age should embrace in some regards, even though it is a vastly different game tonaly than what the elder scrolls is,which is a toolbox to fulfill a power fantasy vs telling a story.

[batlin]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

DAO was supposed to give extra XP for scoring the killing blow, and less XP for characters who were knocked unconscious.

As far as I know, it did that.

And DAO didn't actually give any XP to party members in camp.  They were given XP whenever they rejoined the party to bring them to a minimum of the start of the level below the Warden.  So if you left someone in the camp, fought one encouter, and then retrieved him, he would have earned 0 XP since you'd last checked.

I don't know about killing blows granting more XP, but I know for a fact that party members in camp do indeed gain xp whenever you do, even after they join the party.

[eroeru]

edit: Sylvius said it better.

Modifié par eroeru, 06 juin 2012 - 10:36 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

batlin wrote...

I don't know about killing blows granting more XP, but I know for a fact that party members in camp do indeed gain xp whenever you do, even after they join the party.

No, they don't.  But if they wree more than one level behind you, they'd be automatically advanced to the start of the level below yours.

In between those events, their XP bars didn't move at all.

[Realmzmaster]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

batlin wrote...

I don't know about killing blows granting more XP, but I know for a fact that party members in camp do indeed gain xp whenever you do, even after they join the party.

No, they don't.  But if they wree more than one level behind you, they'd be automatically advanced to the start of the level below yours.

In between those events, their XP bars didn't move at all.

Sylvius is correct. Party members in camp gain no experience points. If you leave a character in camp for a long period of time and gain levels the next time you take that character out its level will be raised to one level behind the warden and you get to assign attribute points, skills and talents.
I think it is a mistake. If you choose to leave a companion at camp or never use the companion for a long time the level should not change. Bioware did it to keep balance within the team. You would not have a companion at the third level when the rest of the party is at the tenth level.

I think it simply removes the consequence of not using that companion more within the team. I believe that the characters in camp should not be granted levels unless they are earned by traveling, questing and fighting with the immediate party.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 07 juin 2012 - 02:44 .

[Ophir147]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Sylvius is correct. Party members in camp gain no experience points. If you leave a character in camp for a long period of time and gain levels the next time you take that character out its level will be raised to one level behind the warden and you get to assign attribute points, skills and talents.
I think it is a mistake. If you choose to leave a companion at camp or never use the companion for a long time the level should not change. Bioware did it to keep balance within the team. You would not have a companion at the third level when the rest of the party is at the tenth level.

I think it simply removes the consequence of not using that companion more within the team. I believe that the characters in camp should not be granted levels unless they are earned by traveling, questing and fighting with the immediate party.

And since there is really no way to grind experience throughout the game (with finite encounters, random or otherwise), the only way to really be able to use all of the characters in combat is hope you're bringing the most useful one along, or else you're pretty boned in the long run.

Perhaps it's a matter of taste, but I find the scaling of teammates to be a necessary evil, especially in a game with a set amount of experience that could possibly be earned

[wsandista]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

DAO was a terrible game. It sold like 10 million copies, but people were so disappointed, very few bought DA2.

Then why does DAO score well with most critics? Why did DAO sell well after it's initial 2-weeks on the market? Why were about half of DA2 sells pre-orders? Who were so disappointed in DAO?

DA2 is the way to go in the future. DA2 is the right direction. There's just some bumps that need to be ironed out, that's all. I trust BioWare to do that.

Why is DA2 the right direction? It didn't sell more and wasn't received as well as DAO, but some have refuted those standards as measures of quality. Please explain how a game that preformed worse both commercially and critically then it's predecessor moved in the right direction.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

batlin wrote...

I don't know about killing blows granting more XP, but I know for a fact that party members in camp do indeed gain xp whenever you do, even after they join the party.

No, they don't.  But if they wree more than one level behind you, they'd be automatically advanced to the start of the level below yours.

In between those events, their XP bars didn't move at all.

Sylvius is correct. Party members in camp gain no experience points. If you leave a character in camp for a long period of time and gain levels the next time you take that character out its level will be raised to one level behind the warden and you get to assign attribute points, skills and talents.
I think it is a mistake. If you choose to leave a companion at camp or never use the companion for a long time the level should not change. Bioware did it to keep balance within the team. You would not have a companion at the third level when the rest of the party is at the tenth level.

I think it simply removes the consequence of not using that companion more within the team. I believe that the characters in camp should not be granted levels unless they are earned by traveling, questing and fighting with the immediate party.

I just think its a realism problem.  I even offered BioWare a solution to the problem of having companions fall behind.  If they used an exponential XP curve like AD&D did, then any character could eventually catch up to one level behind the PC.  No character would ever have an insurmountable lead of more than one level.

But instead they went with a linear XP Curve with scaled XP rewards based on relative challenges.  They basically used the 3E D&D system, which I think works much less well in a party-based game.

[wsandista]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I just think its a realism problem.  I even offered BioWare a solution to the problem of having companions fall behind.  If they used an exponential XP curve like AD&D did, then any character could eventually catch up to one level behind the PC.  No character would ever have an insurmountable lead of more than one level.

But instead they went with a linear XP Curve with scaled XP rewards based on relative challenges.  They basically used the 3E D&D system, which I think works much less well in a party-based game.

How would an exponential XP curve work?

Unfortunately, I'm not as familiar with AD&D rules as 3E, and do not remember exactly how XP worked for AD&D.

[Sylvius the Mad]

wsandista wrote...

How would an exponential XP curve work?

To advance to the next level, you would need to accrue XP equivalent to that required for all of your previous levels combined.  Like this:

Level 1: 0 XP
Level 2: 2,000 XP
Level 3: 4,000 XP
Level 4: 8,000 XP
Level 5: 16,000 XP
Level 6: 32,000 XP
Level 7: 64,000 XP
Level 8: 128,000 XP

So, if a level 7 PC with 75,000 XP went to his camp and collect a level 2 companion with 3,000 XP, there would be a gap between them of 72,000 XP.  But if they then adventure together until the PC reaches level 8, that gap would still be 72,000 XP.  The PC would be at 128,000  XP, with the companion at 56,000 XP.  The companion is now more than halfway through level 6.  He has almost caught up.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 07 juin 2012 - 05:49 .

[wsandista]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

wsandista wrote...

How would an exponential XP curve work?

To advance to the next level, you would need to accrue XP equivalent to that required for all of your previous levels combined.  Like this:

Level 1: 0 XP
Level 2: 2,000 XP
Level 3: 4,000 XP
Level 4: 8,000 XP
Level 5: 16,000 XP
Level 6: 32,000 XP
Level 7: 64,000 XP
Level 8: 128,000 XP

So, if a level 7 PC with 75,000 XP went to his camp and collect a level 2 companion with 3,000 XP, there would be a gap between them of 72,000 XP.  But if they then adventure together until the PC reaches level 8, that gap would still be 72,000 XP.  The PC would be at 128,000  XP, with the companion at 56,000 XP.  The companion is now more than halfway through level 6.  He has almost caught up.

I see how that would allow a NPC to catch up in relative level much faster than they would using a system similar to 3E.

[batlin]

Ooookay, regarding the xp gain from party members in camp, I brought it up because someone said that they only gained xp to match your level when they were recruited. I was wrong too, but a bit less off the mark.

Let's get back on topic please!

Modifié par batlin, 07 juin 2012 - 06:15 .

[wsandista]

batlin wrote...

Ooookay, regarding the xp gain from party members in camp, I brought it up because someone said that they only gained xp to match your level when they were recruited. I was wrong too, but a bit less off the mark.

Let's get back on topic please!

Very well

Some one please answer this: Why is DA2 the right direction? It didn't sell more and wasn't received as well as DAO, but some have refuted those standards as measures of quality. Please explain how a game that preformed worse both commercially and critically then it's predecessor moved in the right direction.

I have asked this question once and will continue to ask it until I get a logical answer.