[quote]Vaeliorin wrote...
[quote]bEVEsthda wrote...
This is one of many, many reasons why Vancian casting is totally superior to the "modern" mana systems. They allowed you to save things for the right moment. Which is undeniably much, much more interesting.[/quote]
Of course, with Vancian casting you can't possibly adapt to a changing or unexpected situation. It's why the inital playthrough of games like BG2 is hard, and subsequent playthroughs are easy, because you know what to expect and can prepare accordingly. I'd much rather not have to know what to expect, and be able to react and adapt to any situation I find myself in,[/quote]
This is not making any sense. If you replay, then you always know what to expect. What has Vancian casting to do with that?
[quote]
[quote]Not to mention the non-regenerating health, which meant that an overiding concern at every battle was to minimise injuries to your party. Another of many dimensions of gameplay that used to be, but now have been lost.[/quote]All non-regenerating health means is that game designers have to give you lots of boring, non-threatening encounters. They can't be tightly tuned because the devs will never be sure of exactly what resources you have at your disposal. That's why the vast majority of the fights in D&D cRPGs are simply filler trash that's not particularly interesting. There are 2 fights in all of BG1 that are remotely interesting, the final battle and the demon under Ulgoth's Beard (whose name I can never remember.) Everything else is just trash that requires no real strategy to beat.
That's not to say that most modern game developers take advantage of the opportunities that regenerating health gives. Most (I might go so far as to say all, but I haven't played every game) still don't tune their encounters to be challenging enough. It basically just results in filler trash like you'd get in a non-regenerating health game without all the resting thrown in. If designers would just design the encounters so that every single one required you to make use of everything at your disposal or risk a TPK, regenerating health would be an asset as opposed to simply an annoyance remover.
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I so totally disagree with this. All combat encounters always become easy when you've figured out how to beat them. Doesn't matter what magic system is underneath. There were plenty of really challenging combat encounters in BG and IWD series. Desperate even. So don't give me any nonsens on that. Now, when you've learned how to beat them, yes then they become easier. Easier for every time you do it. But that's always true.
Now, also in this regard, what you had with Vancian casting and non-regenerating health, was that you entered every combat encounter with different party properties and combat strength. Wether it's "filler trash" or not depends on your condition. You had a campaign that you had to manage, a party to care about. More dimensions of gameplay. Combat wasn't isolated and cut off from the rest of the game. And filler trash was fun. The variation in opposition made for a richer and more fun RPG experience. And filler trash wasn't really. There was still a challenge that tested you. You had to make it with the least possible spells and taking as little damage as possible. Since it was always a part of a bigger campaign you couldn't look on anything as an "easy fight". And you also had the possibility of getting in above your head. You weren't guaranteed to be able to win. I like things like that. It adds value and richness to the experience.
The always fixed and set combat in DA2 and similar, reduces gameplay to just a console combat platformer. It's the fixed combat sets that are boring. I have a strong background in console fighting games and PC FPS games. If you catched me a couple years ago I would have had calloused thumbs, and I own practically the entire catalogues of important fighting and FPS series, and I've played them to death. But level after level of fixed, unrealistic combat sets, is not anything that I look for in RPGs. I loathe to see cRPG being reduced to that.
Finally, I'm happy to see that you haven't gone to a certain place. Thank you for that. Still, I'm going to say this: Just because some players want to cheat and exploit, in their games, to make them easier (like always resting, always go back to earlier saves to try out the best option, etc), is a very poor reason to make them ready-cheated from the beginning, for the convenience of those gamers. Which is exactly how I regard mana systems and health auto-regeneration. Ready-cheated.
It is true that these fixed combat sets make it possible to ensure that all gamers always get the same challenge, finely tuned. Lose, reload and try again, console style. But I don't feel this is really desirable. I'd like cRPGs to play in a different manner. No balancing environment either. Let the player beware where & when to go.
This point is sort of irrelevant. Since the decision to remove strategic elements was made long ago, and I certainly don't believe we'll ever see Vancian casting again. But I do want to stir a discussion and maybe drop ideas of what a cRPG could be. Lately, in this thread, there's been some interesting suggestions about changes to spells and mana. It's important that the pieces don't just fall into a convenient formula.
Modifié par bEVEsthda, 10 juin 2012 - 10:38 .
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I think I may be going insane.
