1306 réponses à ce sujet

[FedericoV]

Cstaf wrote...

Now i had no problems pausing and issuing commands on my PS3 but you are right that it would have been nice with a button for a tactical view sometimes. I use to be a PC gamer back in early 2000,  i only played games like Baldurs Gate 1/2 and Neverwinter Nights but then i got MACified and stopped playing games altogether.

Sorry for going OT: you would save a lot of money returning to PC gaming now. A modern PC rig outlast two consolle generations. I own a 3 year old PC and without a single upgrade I can play 99% of games at maxed settings since 99% of games are consolle ports. PC games costs 15-20 euros less than their consolle counterpats and you have Steam sales. A PC costs 20%-30% less than a Mac with the same hardware. If you like using a pad from your crouch in front of your big TV monitor, there is nothing preventing you to use the PC that way (with the notable exception of ME3 that has kinect support but not gamepad support for the PC incredibly).

Modifié par FedericoV, 04 mars 2012 - 04:02 .

[Wulfram]

What I'm seeing about ME3 is making me think extremely fondly of DA2

[zyntifox]

FedericoV wrote...

Cstaf wrote...

Now i had no problems pausing and issuing commands on my PS3 but you are right that it would have been nice with a button for a tactical view sometimes. I use to be a PC gamer back in early 2000,  i only played games like Baldurs Gate 1/2 and Neverwinter Nights but then i got MACified and stopped playing games altogether.

Sorry for going OT: you would save a lot of money returning to PC gaming now. A modern PC rig outlast two consolle generations. I own a 3 year old PC and without a single upgrade I can play 99% of games at maxed settings since 99% of games are consolle ports. PC games costs 15-20 euros less than their consolle counterpats and you have Steam sales. A PC costs 20%-30% less than a Mac with the same hardware. If you like using a pad from your crouch in front of your big TV monitor, there is nothing preventing you to use the PC that way (with the notable exception of ME3 that has kinect support but not gamepad support for the PC incredibly).

Well money is not an issue for me and i use my Mac for running statistical simulation for which the Mac is alot faster at. Sorry for hijacking the thread, now back to topic.

I just hope that BioWare realizes that they don't have to hit every RPG franchises with the same stick but instead try to make each franchise uniqe. Now i haven't played Mass effect but from what i've read about the series is that it focuses more on the cinematic aspect and it may be a winning formula for that franchise, that dosen't mean it will work for the dragon age series. Again, i haven't played or seen Mass effect so i might be way of.

[HiroVoid]

......Planetscape wasn't Bioware.

[bEVEsthda]

Jasmine96 wrote...

I'm not sure whether you guys are referring to the wrong direction as in the story not being about the wardens, darkspawn and all that or if you guys are talking about how they wen't in the wrong direction as in gameplay aspects and story telling like smaller map, less companion dialogue, etc.

If you're talking about how you don't think Dragon Age 3 will go back to being about the grey wardens and blights then yes I agree with you it probably won't. (But then again who knows?

No. Of course we are not talking about the story.

[schalafi]

After reading many,MANY, discussions on the good and bad aspects of DA:O vs DA2, I can sort of categorize the discussions into several, separate divisions:

1. There are the purists who want games as close to Baldur's gate, in gameplay, D&D rules, scripted dialogue, and no variations from that style.

2 There are the DA:O lovers, who were expecting some kind of continuation of that game, including choosing their own pc, outfitting their npcs, not having a conversation wheel, having a great amount of territory to cover in the game, being able to effect the way the game ends,etc, etc. and since that didn't happen in DA2, they hate the whole game.

3. There are the new players who never played Origins, or Balder's gate, or maybe none of Bioware's games, who don't have all the issues of 1 and 2,and there are players who play games for more than just the continuation of a previous game, but just either love or hate the game on it's own merits, or lack of them.

4: Then there are the trolls who come to these forums for the sole purpose of disrupting an honest discussion, by flaming, and saying outrageous things to look important. I've been a member of these forums for many years, and I don't think I've ever seen such passionate hatred for any game of Bioware's until these DA2 discussions.

I'm not saying that any poster shouldn't have the right to an opinion, but it should be civil, respectful, and the posters should be open to the opinions of others, so if they disagree, they do it in an adult manner, not like a child having a tantrum.

I personally liked DA2 for what it was, parts of it were brilliant, and parts disappointing, but isn't that what life is all about?  You enjoy the good, and deal with the bad. You don't go out and publicly rant on some street corner when things didn't go your way, and doing it in a game forum is ridiculous.

Modifié par schalafi, 04 mars 2012 - 06:09 .

[eroeru]

schalafi wrote...

After reading many,MANY, discussions on the good and bad aspects of DA:O vs DA2, I can sort of categorize the discussions into several, separate divisions:

1. There are the purists who want games as close to Baldur's gate, in gameplay, D&D rules, scripted dialogue, and no variations from that style.

2 There are the DA:O lovers, who were expecting some kind of continuation of that game, including choosing their own pc, outfitting their npcs, not having a conversation wheel, having a great amount of territory to cover in the game being able to effect the way the game ends,etc, etc. and since that didn't happen in DA2, they hate the whole game.

3. There are the new players who never played Origins, or Balder's gate, or maybe none of Bioware's games who don't have all the issues of 1 and 2. and there are players who play games for more than just the continuation of a previous game, but just either love or hate the game on it's own merits, or lack of them.

4: Then there are the trolls who come to these forums for the sole purpose of disrupting an honest discussion, by flaming, and saying outrageous things to look important. I've been a member of these forums for many years, and I don't think I've ever seen such passionate hatred for any game of Bioware's until these DA2 discussions.

I'm not saying that any poster shouldn't have the right to an opinion, but it should be civil, respectful, and the posters should be open to the opinions of others, so if they disagree, they do it in an adult manner, not like a child having a tantrum.

I personally liked DA2 for what it was, parts of it were brilliant, and parts disappointing, but isn't that what life is all about, you enjoy the good, and deal with the bad. You don't go out and publicly rant on some street corner when things didn't go your way, and doing it in a game forum is ridiculous.

So do I understand correctly, that only those who haven't played Bioware's previous games are in the right in their criticism, and that it is only them who value newer Bioware games by their own merits? Well, call me biased, but I'm the sort that loves Baldur's Gate and Origins, both were masterfully done, but I don't like the "other" direction nor DA2, AND claim that the reasons for this are the direction's own nature - I judge the games mainly by their merits (or lack of them).

Modifié par eroeru, 04 mars 2012 - 06:17 .

[schalafi]

[quote]eroeru wrote...

[quote]schalafi wrote...

After reading many,MANY, discussions on the good and bad aspects of DA:O vs DA2, I can sort of categorize the discussions into several, separate divisions:

1. There are the purists who want games as close to Baldur's gate, in gameplay, D&D rules, scripted dialogue, and no variations from that style.

2 There are the DA:O lovers, who were expecting some kind of continuation of that game, including choosing their own pc, outfitting their npcs, not having a conversation wheel, having a great amount of territory to cover in the game being able to effect the way the game ends,etc, etc. and since that didn't happen in DA2, they hate the whole game.

3. There are the new players who never played Origins, or Balder's gate, or maybe none of Bioware's games who don't have all the issues of 1 and 2. and there are players who play games for more than just the continuation of a previous game, but just either love or hate the game on it's own merits, or lack of them.

4: Then there are the trolls who come to these forums for the sole purpose of disrupting an honest discussion, by flaming, and saying outrageous things to look important. I've been a member of these forums for many years, and I don't think I've ever seen such passionate hatred for any game of Bioware's until these DA2 discussions.

I'm not saying that any poster shouldn't have the right to an opinion, but it should be civil, respectful, and the posters should be open to the opinions of others, so if they disagree, they do it in an adult manner, not like a child having a tantrum.

I personally liked DA2 for what it was, parts of it were brilliant, and parts disappointing, but isn't that what life is all about, you enjoy the good, and deal with the bad. You don't go out and publicly rant on some street corner when things didn't go your way, and doing it in a game forum is ridiculous.[/quote]

So do I understand correctly, that only those who haven't played Bioware's previous games are in the right in their criticism, and that only them value the games by their own merits? Well, call me biased, but I'm the sort that loves Baldur's Gate and Origins, both were masterfully done, but I neither like the "other" direction and DA2, AND claim that the reasons for this are the direction's own merits (or lack of them).

[/quote]

If you had understood correctly, then you would have seen that I meant those people were judging DA2 on it's own merits, not being influenced by past games. I am not saying you or others aren't  valuing DA2 on it's own merits, or in your case, it's lack of merit. What I said, was those people had no reason to hate DA:2 because it wasn't like Origins, or any other Bioware game, and because they had no other Bioware experience to contrast it with. If they didn't like it  then it was for personal reasons of their own. Of the many complaints I've read about DA2, many of them were because of disappointment that it wasn't a true sequel to Origins.

[quote formatting fixed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 04 mars 2012 - 10:10 .

[Maria Caliban]

Wulfram wrote...

What I'm seeing about ME3 is making me think extremely fondly of DA2

Dragon Age II's worst crime is that it retroactively made Dragon Age: Origins a great game.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 04 mars 2012 - 06:50 .

[Nilbog79]

schalafi wrote...
I personally liked DA2 for what it was, parts of it were brilliant, and parts disappointing, but isn't that what life is all about?  You enjoy the good, and deal with the bad. You don't go out and publicly rant on some street corner when things didn't go your way, and doing it in a game forum is ridiculous.

Um, the purpose of the game forum is to discuss the game(s) that the forum is dedicated to, this is what this forum is for. A discussion of the game may include positive as well as negative opinions, just like a discussion of anything else. 

[schalafi]

Nilbog79 wrote...

schalafi wrote...
I personally liked DA2 for what it was, parts of it were brilliant, and parts disappointing, but isn't that what life is all about?  You enjoy the good, and deal with the bad. You don't go out and publicly rant on some street corner when things didn't go your way, and doing it in a game forum is ridiculous.

Um, the purpose of the game forum is to discuss the game(s) that the forum is dedicated to, this is what this forum is for. A discussion of the game may include positive as well as negative opinions, just like a discussion of anything else. 

I have no issue with any discussions, both positive and negative, if done in a civil manner. I'ts when certain people post on the forums soley for the purpose of disrupting topics, or ranting, cursing and generally making ****'s  of themselves to get attention, that I was talking about.

[zyntifox]

schalafi wrote...

Nilbog79 wrote...

schalafi wrote...
I personally liked DA2 for what it was, parts of it were brilliant, and parts disappointing, but isn't that what life is all about?  You enjoy the good, and deal with the bad. You don't go out and publicly rant on some street corner when things didn't go your way, and doing it in a game forum is ridiculous.

Um, the purpose of the game forum is to discuss the game(s) that the forum is dedicated to, this is what this forum is for. A discussion of the game may include positive as well as negative opinions, just like a discussion of anything else. 

I have no issue with any discussions, both positive and negative, if done in a civil manner. I'ts when certain people post on the forums soley for the purpose of disrupting topics, or ranting, cursing and generally making ****'s  of themselves to get attention, that I was talking about.

All forums have people who don't behave civil but they are hardly a majority on this forum. I think this forum, and this thread, delievers constructive criticism.

[Nilbog79]

schalafi wrote...

Nilbog79 wrote...

schalafi wrote...
I personally liked DA2 for what it was, parts of it were brilliant, and parts disappointing, but isn't that what life is all about?  You enjoy the good, and deal with the bad. You don't go out and publicly rant on some street corner when things didn't go your way, and doing it in a game forum is ridiculous.

Um, the purpose of the game forum is to discuss the game(s) that the forum is dedicated to, this is what this forum is for. A discussion of the game may include positive as well as negative opinions, just like a discussion of anything else. 

I have no issue with any discussions, both positive and negative, if done in a civil manner. I'ts when certain people post on the forums soley for the purpose of disrupting topics, or ranting, cursing and generally making ****'s  of themselves to get attention, that I was talking about.

We can probably all agree that all disussion on these forums should be polite and civil.

[Joy Divison]

schalafi wrote...

If you had understood correctly, then you would have seen that I meant those people were judging DA2 on it's own merits, not being influenced by past games.

I don't get this complaint.  How is is bad to judge something based on your past experiences?  Shouldn't that be an integral part of one's evaluation?

[Thor Rand Al]

schalafi wrote...

After reading many,MANY, discussions on the good and bad aspects of DA:O vs DA2, I can sort of categorize the discussions into several, separate divisions:

1. There are the purists who want games as close to Baldur's gate, in gameplay, D&D rules, scripted dialogue, and no variations from that style.

2 There are the DA:O lovers, who were expecting some kind of continuation of that game, including choosing their own pc, outfitting their npcs, not having a conversation wheel, having a great amount of territory to cover in the game, being able to effect the way the game ends,etc, etc. and since that didn't happen in DA2, they hate the whole game.

3. There are the new players who never played Origins, or Balder's gate, or maybe none of Bioware's games, who don't have all the issues of 1 and 2,and there are players who play games for more than just the continuation of a previous game, but just either love or hate the game on it's own merits, or lack of them.

4: Then there are the trolls who come to these forums for the sole purpose of disrupting an honest discussion, by flaming, and saying outrageous things to look important. I've been a member of these forums for many years, and I don't think I've ever seen such passionate hatred for any game of Bioware's until these DA2 discussions.

I'm not saying that any poster shouldn't have the right to an opinion, but it should be civil, respectful, and the posters should be open to the opinions of others, so if they disagree, they do it in an adult manner, not like a child having a tantrum.

I personally liked DA2 for what it was, parts of it were brilliant, and parts disappointing, but isn't that what life is all about?  You enjoy the good, and deal with the bad. You don't go out and publicly rant on some street corner when things didn't go your way, and doing it in a game forum is ridiculous.

You forgot a group:
5: Those that have played a lot of Bioware's game's, Balders Gate, NWN 1&2, etc, who did play DAO but who love the direction that DA2 is going. 

I for one love the dialogue wheel system, the different personalities your Hawke can grow into during the game.  I understand the one's that disliked DA2 because they were forced to play a human but that doesn't bother me because that's all I ever play.  I also understand when the Wardens story ended but that should of been apparent at the end of Awakenings, sorry it was for me.  I try and play DAO now and have a really hard time getting into the game.  Gameplay is good but lack of dialogue, emotions, combat, and other things like that after playing DA2 make it really hard to play, that and I absolutely  Hawke who I am really going to have a very very hard time letting go of.    I'm not saying DA2 is perfect but I definitely prefer it better then DAO. 

So as far as the game going in the wrong direction, I absolutely love the direction that DA2 is going, I feel more connected n it feels more personal n I enjoy it more.
N I better quit, safer that way considering this isn't a thread that's defending DA2 but against it.

[Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut]

Joy Divison wrote...

schalafi wrote...

If you had understood correctly, then you would have seen that I meant those people were judging DA2 on it's own merits, not being influenced by past games.

I don't get this complaint.  How is is bad to judge something based on your past experiences?  Shouldn't that be an integral part of one's evaluation?

This is what someone judging DA2 on it's merits, not based on previous games, would look like:

"By Jove! This computer program is being used to convey a pseudo-cinematic experience! You can actually interact with the story in real time! This is fascinating proof-of-concept, and someday, someone will use this technology to tell a good story."

Modifié par Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut, 04 mars 2012 - 07:55 .

[cmessaz]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

schalafi wrote...

After reading many,MANY, discussions on the good and bad aspects of DA:O vs DA2, I can sort of categorize the discussions into several, separate divisions:

1. There are the purists who want games as close to Baldur's gate, in gameplay, D&D rules, scripted dialogue, and no variations from that style.

2 There are the DA:O lovers, who were expecting some kind of continuation of that game, including choosing their own pc, outfitting their npcs, not having a conversation wheel, having a great amount of territory to cover in the game, being able to effect the way the game ends,etc, etc. and since that didn't happen in DA2, they hate the whole game.

3. There are the new players who never played Origins, or Balder's gate, or maybe none of Bioware's games, who don't have all the issues of 1 and 2,and there are players who play games for more than just the continuation of a previous game, but just either love or hate the game on it's own merits, or lack of them.

4: Then there are the trolls who come to these forums for the sole purpose of disrupting an honest discussion, by flaming, and saying outrageous things to look important. I've been a member of these forums for many years, and I don't think I've ever seen such passionate hatred for any game of Bioware's until these DA2 discussions.

I'm not saying that any poster shouldn't have the right to an opinion, but it should be civil, respectful, and the posters should be open to the opinions of others, so if they disagree, they do it in an adult manner, not like a child having a tantrum.

I personally liked DA2 for what it was, parts of it were brilliant, and parts disappointing, but isn't that what life is all about?  You enjoy the good, and deal with the bad. You don't go out and publicly rant on some street corner when things didn't go your way, and doing it in a game forum is ridiculous.

You forgot a group:
5: Those that have played a lot of Bioware's game's, Balders Gate, NWN 1&2, etc, who did play DAO but who love the direction that DA2 is going. 

I for one love the dialogue wheel system, the different personalities your Hawke can grow into during the game.  I understand the one's that disliked DA2 because they were forced to play a human but that doesn't bother me because that's all I ever play.  I also understand when the Wardens story ended but that should of been apparent at the end of Awakenings, sorry it was for me.  I try and play DAO now and have a really hard time getting into the game.  Gameplay is good but lack of dialogue, emotions, combat, and other things like that after playing DA2 make it really hard to play, that and I absolutely  Hawke who I am really going to have a very very hard time letting go of.    I'm not saying DA2 is perfect but I definitely prefer it better then DAO. 

So as far as the game going in the wrong direction, I absolutely love the direction that DA2 is going, I feel more connected n it feels more personal n I enjoy it more.
N I better quit, safer that way considering this isn't a thread that's defending DA2 but against it.

Yes there are others like you. *raises hand* unfortunately all the negativity has driven the actual fans away from the boards. :/ But yeah, I've given up on defending a long time ago. The only opinions that apparently matter are those of the people that didn't like it. *shrugs*

[zyntifox]

cmessaz wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...

schalafi wrote...

After reading many,MANY, discussions on the good and bad aspects of DA:O vs DA2, I can sort of categorize the discussions into several, separate divisions:

1. There are the purists who want games as close to Baldur's gate, in gameplay, D&D rules, scripted dialogue, and no variations from that style.

2 There are the DA:O lovers, who were expecting some kind of continuation of that game, including choosing their own pc, outfitting their npcs, not having a conversation wheel, having a great amount of territory to cover in the game, being able to effect the way the game ends,etc, etc. and since that didn't happen in DA2, they hate the whole game.

3. There are the new players who never played Origins, or Balder's gate, or maybe none of Bioware's games, who don't have all the issues of 1 and 2,and there are players who play games for more than just the continuation of a previous game, but just either love or hate the game on it's own merits, or lack of them.

4: Then there are the trolls who come to these forums for the sole purpose of disrupting an honest discussion, by flaming, and saying outrageous things to look important. I've been a member of these forums for many years, and I don't think I've ever seen such passionate hatred for any game of Bioware's until these DA2 discussions.

I'm not saying that any poster shouldn't have the right to an opinion, but it should be civil, respectful, and the posters should be open to the opinions of others, so if they disagree, they do it in an adult manner, not like a child having a tantrum.

I personally liked DA2 for what it was, parts of it were brilliant, and parts disappointing, but isn't that what life is all about?  You enjoy the good, and deal with the bad. You don't go out and publicly rant on some street corner when things didn't go your way, and doing it in a game forum is ridiculous.

You forgot a group:
5: Those that have played a lot of Bioware's game's, Balders Gate, NWN 1&2, etc, who did play DAO but who love the direction that DA2 is going. 

I for one love the dialogue wheel system, the different personalities your Hawke can grow into during the game.  I understand the one's that disliked DA2 because they were forced to play a human but that doesn't bother me because that's all I ever play.  I also understand when the Wardens story ended but that should of been apparent at the end of Awakenings, sorry it was for me.  I try and play DAO now and have a really hard time getting into the game.  Gameplay is good but lack of dialogue, emotions, combat, and other things like that after playing DA2 make it really hard to play, that and I absolutely  Hawke who I am really going to have a very very hard time letting go of.    I'm not saying DA2 is perfect but I definitely prefer it better then DAO. 

So as far as the game going in the wrong direction, I absolutely love the direction that DA2 is going, I feel more connected n it feels more personal n I enjoy it more.
N I better quit, safer that way considering this isn't a thread that's defending DA2 but against it.

Yes there are others like you. *raises hand* unfortunately all the negativity has driven the actual fans away from the boards. :/ But yeah, I've given up on defending a long time ago. The only opinions that apparently matter are those of the people that didn't like it. *shrugs*

Sorry, you'll get no sympathy from me. The people who liked DA2 will most certainly get what you want/like from the next installment while we who prefer the more classical approach to the genre will have to make due re-playing Baldurs gate/icewind dale and origins (not that im complaining, i love those games ).

[gremlin1981]

I play a lot of RPGs, including Neverwinters nights Neverwinter nights 2, Icewind dale, Icewind dale 2, Balders gate, Balders gate 2, the witcher, the witcher 2, Dragon age origins, Mass effect mass effect 2 (waiting on Mass effect 3), Knights of the old republic, Knights of the old republic: sith lords, Elder scrolls, Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 1,2 & 3 as well as new vegas.

After playing DA2 I felt it had been rushed, compared with all the RPGs mentioned above. It also had a feeling that the game was short, even if you did all the missions. Im not saying that Bioware went in the wrong direction, it felt like they released it to fill in a gap and the third would actually be the second.

Those are my thoughts on the matter. It will be interesting to see what they do with the third if they make it.

[Maria Caliban]

Joy Divison wrote...

schalafi wrote...

If you had understood correctly, then you would have seen that I meant those people were judging DA2 on it's own merits, not being influenced by past games.

I don't get this complaint.  How is is bad to judge something based on your past experiences?  Shouldn't that be an integral part of one's evaluation?

It's not possible to judge DA 2 on its own merits unless you have previous game experience.

Film Critic Hulk has an essay on how lack of previous experience leads to people judging things purely on gut reaction and surface detail.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 04 mars 2012 - 10:06 .

[Thor Rand Al]

gremlin1981 wrote...
After playing DA2 I felt it had been rushed, compared with all the RPGs mentioned above. It also had a feeling that the game was short, even if you did all the missions. Im not saying that Bioware went in the wrong direction, it felt like they released it to fill in a gap and the third would actually be the second.

Exactly, the game was rushed, there are a lot of areas that just didn't have enough story behind it, it wasn't as long as DAO but as far as going in the wrong direction I myself love the new direction.  Yes I loved NWN n the others that I've played, I'll always still play them but after seeing the potential that's in DA2 I'm definitely ready for the new direction.

Games not perfect but I definitely don't hate it.  Love DA2 in fact. 

[DarkAmaranth1966]

I just hope that Bioware is not going EA style - make a fair, if rushed game then expect players to buy pack after pack to go with it because it is good, just too short and not fleshed out enough. I don't want to do 50.00 this month for DA3 then 30-40 every two months to get more content for it because it's good but needs more as I got bored with the tid bit that was there in a week.

I'd rather pay 70 or even 100 for the game and then maybe 50 per year for 2-3 years for quality DLC to enhance an already fantastic game.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

FedericoV wrote...

So, I ask myself: is that cinematic model too resource intensive? Is it stretching Bioware too thin? Is it an efficient development model in terms of return of investment? I mean, with the money spend on ME3 you could develop five BG2 (I guess, I do not have access to the actual figures).

But at the end the answer is the same as point 1: is it wise to go in that direction for all your franchises?

That I find interesting in itself. It's clear to me that BioWare did not expect or anticipate Dragon Age: Origins' success. They were already in pre-production stages, making changes for Dragon Age 2, just after Origins hit the market. That was before they could really get an accurate assessment of Origins and take into account how well it was received.

Now I, like many others, had assumed that with the release of Origins, BioWare could be developing a two track system of games. One that focused purely on the cinematic action (Mass Effect) and one with "adequate cinematics", but played more like a classical RPG (or as close as was possible - Origins was already a compromise between new/old school). In particular, I was really interested to see how they could develop and improve the Origins system as I felt that was probably the most innovative feature of the series - how many RPGs let you choose and play your own backstory?

I'm disappointed it didn't turn out like that and I do wonder at the wisdom of making two different styles of games so similar in design that it loses a lot of what makes it distinct. But it is what it is.

As for the issue of money, I honestly think that TOR is the big elephant in the room here. They spent what, 100+ million on that game? That's like 10-20 BG2s. This also speaks for talent, someone like James Ohlen (who led every BioWare RPG up to Jade Empire) has spent the last 5 years or so working on TOR.

batlin wrote...

What, so because BioWare has two different series they must therefore be akin to each other in style and gameplay?

Why? What is the problem with having two wholly different series, exactly? It certainly wasn't a problem when they released DA:O after releasing Mass Effect.

For the most part, I agree. But it is what it is. You're letting your personal dislike of Dragon Age 2 colour the overall picture.

BioWare has always aimed for such a formula.

Now, is DA 2 not an ideal example of the formula, lacking in polish, execution and quality? Yeah, sure.

But I'm sure that BioWare thinks it can pull it off given enough development time. Whether you agree with that notion really isn't that important, because this is something they've been pursuing (interactive cinematic narratives) for a long time now.

JeeWeeJ wrote...

Well, I do not agree that BG 1+2, Planescape, NWN and DA:O were anomalies. Far from it! I always liked to think that Bioware had two different "tracks" of games they made. More action (or console?) oriented RPGs like KOTOR, Jade Empire and ME1 and 2, and classical PC oriented RPGs like the ones I listed earlier. I say this because from BG1 to DA:O, the core elements of companions, inventory management, story complexity etc were kept more or less the same.

Not saying that the other type of games were bad, far from it! Almost all of them are classics in their own right. But as someone above me said, it looks like Bioware has decided to kill the cassical track and focus on the action oriented games.

But these tracks have to very different kinds of fans whose expectations clash on multiple fronts. And Bioware indeed tried to mix these two groups together...and we saw (and still see) the results.

Bioware has always catered to a certain niche in the RPG market with their classical RPGs and every single one was a blockbuster and they all had this unique Bioware touch to them. A few non-Bioware games came close to them, but none really equalled them. So I just don´t understand why Bioware has decided that this had to change. (except from the usual speculations like "more money on the consoles", "EA bossing around" blah blah blah)

I'm sorry, because I tend to agree with this post, but it's big pet peeve of mine.

BioWare did not make Planescape: Torment. Black Isle Studios did.

What I meant by anomalies was that since KotOR was developed, Dragon Age: Origins was the odd one out - the others all have focused on more Action-y combat than previous games, with a higher focus on cinematics over the written word and character systems that don't try to build characters from the ground up, but ones with a much more limited scope. Even Origins had to compromise with that design philosophy, it wasn't exactly a 1-1 replica of Baldur's Gate.

[Fast Jimmy]

I see my call for no arguing, but rather a discussion building consensus in what can be improved on in the DA series on Page 6 has fallen on deaf ears.

Oh well. I tried to get the kids on the playground to all get along together, so I can pat myself on the back.

Since I'm abandoning attempts at unity and harmony...

Dragon Age II's worst crime is that it retroactively made Dragon Age: Origins a great game.

PLEASE. DAO was a gaming legend mere months after it came out. Nothing about DA2 improved how DAO was received, critiqued, sold or was lauded. There have been almost negligible amounts of articles, for example, that say "Looking back... did we not realize how amazing DAO was?" DAO sold better than any non-Bethesda RPG. It received the highest ratings across every respectable reviewer. Was it perfect? No. Did it appeal to every gamer who never previously liked RPGs? Absoultely not, although some who had never played or enjoyed an RPG before did find it a great game.

But were 99% of all the good things said about DAO all said BEFORE DA2 came out? Yes. Without a doubt. You may say "Professional reviewers are puppets" or "high sales don't mean high quality" and these are statements with an element of truth. But you CANNOT say that the good things said about DAO were a form of backlash of people hating on DA2. Its just not accurate.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 04 mars 2012 - 11:16 .