326 réponses à ce sujet

[MissOuJ]

There's difference between tasteful and gratuitous, and while I'm not really squirked by nudity, I think it is a poor way to determine the "majurity level" of a game. Pixel boobs are cheap. Actually portraying meaningful relationships adresses the adult subject matters of love, sex and relationships much better, in my opinnion.

Take romances in ME2: fem!Shep has the opportunity to romance Thane, who is plagued by loss of his wife and guilt of leaving his son to avenge her and by a cripling desease which will see him dead in less than a year. His romance scene has him confess he's afraid of dying, after he already thought he had accepted his mortality. Kiss, and fade to black. Very tasteful, very mature, no nudity required.

Same with Garrus: he's looking to do something right after loads of bad stuff happening to him and people he cares/careed about - and Garrus blames himself for most of it. Also, there's the issue of whether or not he and Shepard would be better off as friends, since the whole encounter is framed pretty much as friends-with-benefits, sort of arrangement. "I want something to go right. Just once." Fade to black - not even a kiss, just a tender touch of foreheads. Really powerful, adult presentation of difficult feelings and a start of a relationship. Again, no nudity required.

And for male!Shep, there's Jack's paragon romance scene, where she basically overcomes her fears, adversion to human contact, and trust issues - and more important, this happends because Shepard doesn't push her, doesn't force her, but in stead earns her trust during the game. Jack doesn't come to the conclusion "I guess other people aren't such a**holes after all, kittens for everyone!" but "This man is worth my trust and worth the risk" which is much more accurate portrayal of people who are recovering from abuse, unhealthy past relationships, and loss of a loved one. This is truly incredible writing and character development, it examines what it is to be a supportive partner in a difficult relationship. And once more, no nudity required (besides Jack's usual outfit).

Sex isn't all about the physical act of sex, it's about the context, about the relationship, and about the questions these characters have to face in light of this new relationship. If you romanced Kaidan/Ashley, this becomes clear when you have to decide which one to save. Will your relationship affect your judgement?

So, TL,DR: I prefer "fade to black" to the more graphic sex scenes, because the line between tasteful and tacky is fine indeed, and to totter to the wrong side of that line could be immersion breaking at best and absolutely horrendous at worst.

Modifié par MissOuJ, 03 mars 2012 - 06:23 .

[slimgrin]

MissOuJ wrote...

There's difference between tasteful and gratuitous, and while I'm not really squirked by nudity, I think it is a poor way to determine the "majurity level" of a game. Pixel boobs are cheap.

Stopped reading there.

Modifié par slimgrin, 03 mars 2012 - 05:44 .

[Mr_Dots]

I don't get these sex for sex sakes posts. By all accounts, Battlestar Galactica didn't show much, but it showed enough.

[MonkeyLungs]

slimgrin wrote...

TheLostGenius wrote...

They could have taken it to the witcher 2 level of the sex, but then people would start complaining. OMG too much sex!

That would be too far for Mass Effect. I can't help but chuckle when Bioware keeps showing underwear cuddly time when they did it just right in ME1. Adults play their games too.

Well said slimgrin, I completely agree. What was wrong with the Mass Effect scene I will never ever understand.

[MissOuJ]

slimgrin wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

There's difference between tasteful and gratuitous, and while I'm not really squirked by nudity, I think it is a poor way to determine the "majurity level" of a game. Pixel boobs are cheap.

Stopped reading there.

Well, it's pretty much true, isn't it?

The only instances where fully rendered female nudity has stayed in some boundaries of tact that I can remember are ME1 (and even there all we get is the infamous "side-boob") and Heavy Rain - but the romance between Madison and Ethan in that game is so immature, forced and pointless, the tactful female nudity doesn't really save that romance.

[noxpanda]

The only issue i have with the scenes is when they immediately cut back after the event and everyone is either clothed or in their underwear, it breaks the immersion a bit. Id prefer it if it cut back and they were under the sheets talking or some such, rather than 'woop deed done now lets get clothed and talk about it'.

[KotorEffect3]

I don't play the games for the sex scenes. To be honest I don't care how they play out as long as the actual character arc between Shepard and his L1 has a satisfying conclusion.

[MissOuJ]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I don't play the games for the sex scenes. To be honest I don't care how they play out as long as the actual character arc between Shepard and his L1 has a satisfying conclusion.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

[spirosz]

MissOuJ wrote...

There's difference between tasteful and gratuitous, and while I'm not really squirked by nudity, I think it is a poor way to determine the "majurity level" of a game. Pixel boobs are cheap. Actually portraying meaningful relationships adresses the adult subject matters of love, sex and relationships much better, in my opinnion.

Take romances in ME2: fem!Shep has the opportunity to romance Thane, who is plagued by loss of his wife and guilt of leaving his son to avenge her and by a cripling desease which will see him dead in less than a year. His romance scene has him confess he's afraid of dying, after he already thought he had accepted his mortality. Kiss, and fade to black. Very tasteful, very mature, no nudity required.

Same with Garrus: he's looking to do something right after loads of bad stuff happening for him and people he cares/careed about - and Garrus blames himself for most of it. Also, there's the issue of whether or not he and Shepard would be better off as friends, since the whole encounter is framed pretty much as friends-with-benefits, sort of arrangement. "I want something to go right. Just once." Fade to black - not even a kiss, just a tender touch of foreheads. Really powerful, adult presentation of difficult feelings and a start of a relationship. Again, no nudity required.

And for male!Shep, there's Jack's paragon romance scene, where she basically overcomes her fears, adversion to human contact, and trust issues - and more important, this happends because Shepard doesn't push her, doesn't force her, but in stead earns her trust during the game. Jack doesn't come to the conclusion "I guess other people aren't such a**holes after all, kittens for everyone!" but "This man is worth my trust and worth the risk" which is much more accurate portrayal of people who are recovering from abuse, unhealthy past relationships, and loss of a loved one. This is truly incredible writing and character development, it examines what it is to be a supportive partner in a difficult relationship. And once more, no nudity required (besides Jack's usual outfit).

Sex isn't all about the physical act of sex, it's about the context, about the relationship, and about the questions these characters have to face in light of this new relationship. If you romanced Kaidan/Ashley, this becomes clear when you have to decide which one to save. Will your relationship affect your judgement?

So, TL,DR: I prefer "fade to black" to the more graphic sex scenes, because the line between tasteful and tacky is fine indeed, and to totter to the wrong side of that line could be immersion breaking at best and absolutely horrendous at worst.

Exactly how I feel, great post.  I used Jack as an example as well, I find her romance scene really useful for these arguments, haha.  

[fropas]

MissOuJ wrote...

There's difference between tasteful and gratuitous, and while I'm not really squirked by nudity, I think it is a poor way to determine the "majurity level" of a game. Pixel boobs are cheap. Actually portraying meaningful relationships adresses the adult subject matters of love, sex and relationships much better, in my opinnion.

Sex isn't all about the physical act of sex, it's about the context, about the relationship, and about the questions these characters have to face in light of this new relationship. If you romanced Kaidan/Ashley, this becomes clear when you have to decide which one to save. Will your relationship affect your judgement?

So, TL,DR: I prefer "fade to black" to the more graphic sex scenes, because the line between tasteful and tacky is fine indeed, and to totter to the wrong side of that line could be immersion breaking at best and absolutely horrendous at worst.

All that's fine for a paragon, but I thiink many people would argue that if you were playing a more. . ."rough" Sheperd that, these Sentimental love scenes were totally out of context with your character.
 
Some people want shock value too. And it's kind of "out of character" for a renegade Shep to dry-hump with his/her underwear on. Jack's renegade sex-scene is ALL dry-humping. I agree with you that there's a fine line between "tasteful" and tactless, but I agree with The PLC, "If they can't do them right, why do them in the first place?"

They may as well not even give us sex-scenes if the characters are going to dry-hump for 30 seconds--it looks stupid--they might as well "fade-to-black" as you suggest (with some sound FX thrown in ala "Fallout New Vegas").

And again, I'm not bringing up this topic because "I NEEDZ SEX IN GAMEZ." I'm bringing it up because the sex-scenes they have shown seem to be developed for consumers who can't handle nudity at all . I don't mind them showing no "skin" (like "Conker's Bad Fur Day"), but when they do try to show adults having sex in their underwear it bugs me. I kind of wish they just cut it out of the game.

Modifié par fropas, 03 mars 2012 - 06:24 .

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

I think they should return to the Mass Effect 1 model, more sexually graphic, or even go further to Witcher 2/God of War grade. I mean controversy and publicity sells, and frankly with the amount of cheese with the sex scenes, even the old ones, they are downright laughable.

[Abirn]

MysteryJoker wrote...

Remember what happened with Mass Effect? That had a grand total of a 10 second sex scene and those degenerates we call the media turned it into a giant ****storm

And this is why conservatives suck.  I don't care about sex scenes  but I do care when companies pander to those idiots.

[Jarlaxlecq]

ediskrad327 wrote...

i demand my pixel boobs and i want them NAO!

Because pixel guns and explosions are ok, but pixel Boobs? that crosses the line. go go neo- puritanical uptightness....

[Tassigny]

Hello,

Yes. It actually dumbs down the game, to be so obviously prude while depicting genocide, children dying, things being decapitated and a universe on fire.

[Kuriiiiiii]

What I don't understand is when they designed breasts in Dragon age, they put a nipple on the females. Nudity is fine in a game that is 18+. I don't think mass effect was even 13 was it?

[MissOuJ]

fropas wrote...

And again, I'm not bringing up this topic because "I NEEDZ SEX IN GAMEZ." I'm bringing it up because the sex-scenes they have shown seem to be developed for consumers who can't handle nudity at all . I don't mind them showing no "skin" (like "Conker's Bad Fur Day"), but when they do try to show adults having sex in their underwear it bugs me. I kind of wish they just cut it out of the game.

Maybe it's because I live in a society where nudity is not nearly as stigmatized (going to a public sauna naked with 10+ other people will do that to you) but I don't see it at all as "sex scenes for people who can't handle nudity", but that might be a cultural difference. I am also pretty skeptic of the "shocking" factor of sex scenes - pandering and "sex appeal" are to me more amusing than anything else.

I actually agree the underwear humping scenes are weird - particularly the ones in DAO (wow, weren't they awkward) - but in the ME series, most of the love scenes have been portrayed in rather tasteful manner so far (at least, compared to many other games, such as the Witcher series ), in my opinnion, and I just hope BioWare keeps doing their thing with ME3 aswell.

Modifié par MissOuJ, 03 mars 2012 - 06:47 .

[fropas]

MissOuJ wrote...

fropas wrote...

And again, I'm not bringing up this topic because "I NEEDZ SEX IN GAMEZ." I'm bringing it up because the sex-scenes they have shown seem to be developed for consumers who can't handle nudity at all . I don't mind them showing no "skin" (like "Conker's Bad Fur Day"), but when they do try to show adults having sex in their underwear it bugs me. I kind of wish they just cut it out of the game.

Maybe it's because I live in a society where nudity is not nearly as stigmatized (going to a public sauna naked with 10+ other people will do that to you) but I don't see it at all as "sex scenes for people who can't handle nudity", but that might be a cultural difference. I am also pretty skeptic of the "shocking" factor of sex scenes - pandering and "sex appeal" are to me more amusing than enything else.

I actually agree the underwear humping scenes are weird - particularly the ones in DAO (wow, weren't they awkward) - but in the ME series, most of the love scenes have been portrayed in rather tasteful manner so far (at least, compared to many other games, such as the Witcher series ), in my opinnion, and I just hope BioWare keeps doing their thing with ME3 aswell.

Wow. . .I never knew you were from "Nakedbathlandia".

In all  seriousness, I'm a paragon too, so I'm more than satisfied with the love scenes BW provides. I just think that if someone were playing a renegade they might feel differently. But that's my assumption--hopefully BW doesn't make such "awkward" descisions in the future.

[Jarlaxlecq]

aLucidMind wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

PG-13 is an overstatment. They're PG. I just hate how hypocritical bioware is. They won't do nudity, but every female character is in a skin tight cat suit, or has their ****** hanging out, or both.

The problem isn't hypocrisy, it is the fact that the industry as a whole sees gamers of all types to be nothing more than horny teenagers with anger issues and very little intellect, and BSN has several people who support that stereotype of us. Mature games aren't for 17+ like they say, they're practically for late-middle school kids and older (just look at Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout, Assassin's Creed, and ME as well).

"Mature" games often have very immature depictions of mature topics; want a sex scene? A mature person would be able to enjoy a love scene like Jack's Paragon scene; a horny teenager would be wanting a sex minigame from God of War. It isn't for mature people, it is just for people who know this stuff isn't real (don't need to be mature for that). It is pathetic.

Devils advocate can be, Look bioware tried to be mature with ME1..... and all they got for their trouble was a Faux News controversy....

[slimgrin]

Tassigny wrote...

Hello,

Yes. It actually dumbs down the game, to be so obviously prude while depicting genocide, children dying, things being decapitated and a universe on fire.

Lol. They can put women in real battle clothing while they're at it.

Modifié par slimgrin, 03 mars 2012 - 07:04 .

[MissOuJ]

fropas wrote...
Wow. . .I never knew you were from "Nakedbathlandia".

In all  seriousness, I'm a paragon too, so I'm more than satisfied with the love scenes BW provides. I just think that if someone were playing a renegade they might feel differently. But that's my assumption--hopefully BW doesn't make such "awkward" descisions in the future.

Yeah, Scandinavian here! Going to the sauna naked it pretty much the norm here, so nudity isn't really that rare - and it quicky loses any shock effect.

I approve the idea of more "renegade" love scenes with less fluff and more physical action, but only as long as it's not pandering or tacky. Being a female player and seeing female bodies portrayed as objects to male gamers' titillation gets old really fast...<_< (Witcer 2, I'm looking at you)

[Waage25]

MissOuJ wrote...

fropas wrote...

And again, I'm not bringing up this topic because "I NEEDZ SEX IN GAMEZ." I'm bringing it up because the sex-scenes they have shown seem to be developed for consumers who can't handle nudity at all . I don't mind them showing no "skin" (like "Conker's Bad Fur Day"), but when they do try to show adults having sex in their underwear it bugs me. I kind of wish they just cut it out of the game.

Maybe it's because I live in a society where nudity is not nearly as stigmatized (going to a public sauna naked with 10+ other people will do that to you) but I don't see it at all as "sex scenes for people who can't handle nudity", but that might be a cultural difference. I am also pretty skeptic of the "shocking" factor of sex scenes - pandering and "sex appeal" are to me more amusing than anything else.

I actually agree the underwear humping scenes are weird - particularly the ones in DAO (wow, weren't they awkward) - but in the ME series, most of the love scenes have been portrayed in rather tasteful manner so far (at least, compared to many other games, such as the Witcher series ), in my opinnion, and I just hope BioWare keeps doing their thing with ME3 aswell.

What's wrong with the sex in the Witcher series. It is fitting because of the book and the very mature themes that series has it is not afraid to show skin .
Maybe it is because i am Scandinavian and we are not as afraid of sex as the rest of the world, but things like this.



This looks stupid. THIS IS WHAT I AM AGAINST!.
This looks weird and wrong to me and passionless or something that is part of a mary-sue story.

[slimgrin]

I doubt we'll get armor cuddling again, I already saw one romance scene and they were in their undies.

Modifié par slimgrin, 03 mars 2012 - 07:03 .

[100k]

In my opinion, nudity for the sake of nudity is rarely a good thing.

-HOWEVER-

I do feel that the ME series could implement nudity into their games without feeling guilty. Hell, the day and age when developers skirted sex and nudity in games is coming to an end, since that kind of stuff is becoming far more commonplace in gaming.

Mass Effect is an M rated series, and as such, it should be willing to use its M rating as little or much as possible. Nudity for shock value = bad. Nudity for a sex scene = logical. Nudity for a CC body customization = God Tier.

[MissOuJ]

Waage25 wrote...

What's wrong with the sex in the Witcher series. It is fitting because of the book and the very mature themes that series has it is not afraid to show skin .

To show female skin, you mean.

The Witcher series has always been about pandering for the male audience: the sex card minigame in Witcher 1, and the incredibly creepy and problematic peep show in the Witcher 2 ("Oh, looks like we're trapped. Well, nevermind, let's have sex! Lemme magic all my clothes away and show off my magnificent boobs!"). Only female characters are objectified and shown naked/scantly clad - notice how pretty much everyhting else is fair game except Geralt's junk? Would you feel comfortable seeing that? I don't think so.

Plus, what's so horrible or "immature" about (optional!) cuddling? Especially when you think what kind of things both Shepard and his/her LI have been through?

Also, I'm Scandinavian as well, but I'm also a woman, and really bored of gaming's portrayal of female characters as objects of male titillation. Seriously, breasts aren't that great - I can tell you, I actually have a pair.

Modifié par MissOuJ, 03 mars 2012 - 07:17 .