143 réponses à ce sujet

[dizzymonkey_bio]

Joescrab wrote...

This is Bioware's game, not yours. This is Bioware's story, not yours. Yes, you have some impact on individual character's stories and can impact the end of the game to a degree, but this game is ending the way Bioware wants. What many people seem to forget is that this is a labor of love that Bioware has worked on for over half a decade, and if they want bitter endings then they are gonna have some bitter endings. Everyone needs to stop being so worked up over the endings and start appreciating the unique path they are taking going for a darker ending to an epic trilogy instead of a rainbow and sunshine one. Can you even remember the last time a HUGE series like this has ended on a dark note? I sure as hell can't, and I give massive props to Bioware allowing one of the biggest franchises ever to go out the way they want, and not how anyone else does.

It's their story, their franchise, and their ending. Deal with it.

What a cute idea.  I should try that with our customers:  

"You paid for our product, used it according to the theme we have set with previous versions and based on things we have conveyed to you.  Unfortunately, that really doesn't mean anything.  We are instead of going to pull the rug out from under you and you can suck it up and deal with it since it's our product".

Yeah, doesn't work that way.  It's a video game but Bioware is still a business and the players are still customers.

Sometimes in business you have to do stuff similiar to that (perhaps on a smaller scale) but when you do:
A)  Expect absolute hell from your customer base (even if you have #2)
 You better have a damn good reason for doing it and be able to justify your choice beyond "we felt like it".  

As this is a science FICTION story good luck finding a good business reason for doing what they supposedly did to the endings.  This was a personal taste choice on their part that goes against the grain of previous comments 
from Bioware regarding impact of choice and the theme set in the first 2 games.  Folks are pissed and they have reason to be (aassuming the leaked info is accurate and no other endings or options are floating around which is unlikely).

[RamirezWolfen]

DifferentD17 wrote...

They effectively did take it away from the people with a different idea.

But what if that was never planned? They can't take away something they never promised to give.

A different and utterly loathsome, wholly worthless idea if the spoilers are wholly true.

Well it's not liked they promised happier endings....

[Xilizhra]

Well it's not liked they promised happier endings....

Irrelevant. We will react regardless. Explosively, apparently.

[TyphonX9]

Bioware drives this bus; we're just along for the ride, and I'm okay with that.

We should trust in Bioware to create a fitting end to the trilogy. Anything else at this point is just derivative speculation fueled by rumors based on second-hand information.

Lets all experience the game, then we can meet back here to chat, eh?

[DifferentD17]

RamirezWolfen wrote...


But what if that was never planned? They can't take away something they never promised to give.

Players planned it. And Devs promised diverse endings.  So they did promise things.

[Xilizhra]

Lets all experience the game, then we can meet back here to chat, eh?

That would be giving Bioware unearned money. We should wait for other people to experience it first.

[Joescrab]

dizzymonkey_bio wrote...

Joescrab wrote...

This is Bioware's game, not yours. This is Bioware's story, not yours. Yes, you have some impact on individual character's stories and can impact the end of the game to a degree, but this game is ending the way Bioware wants. What many people seem to forget is that this is a labor of love that Bioware has worked on for over half a decade, and if they want bitter endings then they are gonna have some bitter endings. Everyone needs to stop being so worked up over the endings and start appreciating the unique path they are taking going for a darker ending to an epic trilogy instead of a rainbow and sunshine one. Can you even remember the last time a HUGE series like this has ended on a dark note? I sure as hell can't, and I give massive props to Bioware allowing one of the biggest franchises ever to go out the way they want, and not how anyone else does.

It's their story, their franchise, and their ending. Deal with it.

What a cute idea.  I should try that with our customers:  

"You paid for our product, used it according to the theme we have set with previous versions and based on things we have conveyed to you.  Unfortunately, that really doesn't mean anything.  We are instead of going to pull the rug out from under you and you can suck it up and deal with it since it's our product".

Yeah, doesn't work that way.  It's a video game but Bioware is still a business and the players are still customers.

Sometimes in business you have to do stuff similiar to that (perhaps on a smaller scale) but when you do:
A)  Expect absolute hell from your customer base (even if you have #2)
 You better have a damn good reason for doing it and be able to justify your choice beyond "we felt like it".  

As this is a science FICTION story good luck finding a good business reason for doing what they supposedly did to the endings.  This was a personal taste choice on their part that goes against the grain of previous comments 
from Bioware regarding impact of choice and the theme set in the first 2 games.  Folks are pissed and they have reason to be (aassuming the leaked info is accurate and no other endings or options are floating around which is unlikely).

Bioware promised it was your story, and it is your story. It's just not your ENDING. There's a lot to the game that is affected by your decisions, the ending is simply not one of them... I don't see a problem here. You're lying to yourself if you think your actions have absolutely no affect, it just doesn't alter the END TO BIOWARE'S story... MY story and your story could be completely different, but they still had a vision for the way the trilogy should end

[Dreogan]

I don't care about getting a "happy ending" from Bioware. I simply consider their choice to have one ending with slight variations an immense disservice to their players, yes, but also a disservice to Bioware itself.

There's amazing potential in a game with so much player choice. Their ending was, for all intents and purposes, a cop-out. They barely implemented the choice made a few minutes before the ending; hell, the ending for the trilogy didn't even step beyond the scope of the first game's ending.

Let's compare (just for fun) the first game's ending with the second:

The first game's ending:
-Allows two major decisions. Each of these decisions not only influence any number of small things in later games, they also (and most important for this discussion) actively and immediately influence the cutscenes and events that play out in real-time You could end up with an all-human council, a council with Ulidina, or a Council with Anderson.
-Multiple perspectives, multiple "phases" of ending-- you can even count the "start" of Mass Effect's ending to be the conversation with Vigil on Illos.

Mass Effect 2:
-Multiple shooty bits after going through the Omega-4 relay followed by two short cutscenes where actors are simply shown/hidden depending on whether they lived or not. The entire game's plot could be shortened to "You are at A. This is B (arrow), go to B."

Bioware's failure, in my eyes, is not that they didn't make an ending for me. Their failure is they tried to elevate the ending beyond the pathetic ending of Mass Effect 2, but were unable to close the Trilogy as strongly as they were able to close the first act of the trilogy. This is the sort of mistake that reduces the importance and impact of not only Mass Effect 3, but the entire series.


In other words, Bioware made their bed when they decided to allow so much player choice. They now get to sleep in that bed. "Their" game is now "our" game because they gave it to us, and they will get hell for trying to take back "their" game in the ending.

Modifié par Dreogan, 03 mars 2012 - 05:47 .

[Heather Cline]

I can only say if the endings are true then that's it for me and Bioware.

That's all I need to say.

[CerberusSoldier]

Op when they added Player choice into it in Mass Effect 1 . It become the players game

[dw99027]

What a cute idea.  I should try that with our customers:

Depends on the product. I am a Mechanical Engineer and I run a Engineering design business. While I still get to be creative, I don't get to ignore ISO rules for bolts and screws because my product won't work. Huge difference from being an artist of any kind.

[RamirezWolfen]

DifferentD17 wrote...

RamirezWolfen wrote...


But what if that was never planned? They can't take away something they never promised to give.

Players planned it. And Devs promised diverse endings.  So they did promise things.

The endings are diverse. If I recall, three different endings with three variations each, so it's 9? At least that's what I heard.  And what the players planned doesn't really matter, as they aren't making the game, no offense though.

EDIT: Spacing. I need to type slower.

Modifié par RamirezWolfen, 03 mars 2012 - 05:45 .

[Xilizhra]

Bioware promised it was your story, and it is your story. It's just not your ENDING. There's a lot to the game that is affected by your decisions, the ending is simply not one of them... I don't see a problem here. You're lying to yourself if you think your actions have absolutely no affect, it just doesn't alter the END TO BIOWARE'S story... MY story and your story could be completely different, but they still had a vision for the way the trilogy should end

And it was a worthless vision, and we shall say so.

[dizzymonkey_bio]

Joescrab wrote...

Bioware promised it was your story, and it is your story. It's just not your ENDING. There's a lot to the game that is affected by your decisions, the ending is simply not one of them... I don't see a problem here. You're lying to yourself if you think your actions have absolutely no affect, it just doesn't alter the END TO BIOWARE'S story... MY story and your story could be completely different, but they still had a vision for the way the trilogy should end

The ending is part of the story.  Your choices are meant to control what the ending is.

[DifferentD17]

RamirezWolfen wrote...

DifferentD17 wrote...

RamirezWolfen wrote...


But what if that was never planned? They can't take away something they never promised to give.

Players planned it. And Devs promised diverse endings.  So they did promise things.

The endings are diverse. If I recall, three different endings with three variations each, so it's 9? At least that's what I heard.  And what the players planned doesn't really matter, as they aren't making the game, no offense though.

EDIT: Spacing. I need to type slower.

They aren't different. You get 1 with different color relays exploding. Have you looked into it or are you just going by what you heard? It does matter if the devs say there will be diverse endings. Your argument sounds like: "players don't matter", when if there where no players there would be no games.

[dizzymonkey_bio]

dw99027 wrote...

What a cute idea.  I should try that with our customers:

Depends on the product. I am a Mechanical Engineer and I run a Engineering design business. While I still get to be creative, I don't get to ignore ISO rules for bolts and screws because my product won't work. Huge difference from being an artist of any kind.

I am also an engineer and we have some flexibility in what we do but that has little to no bearing on when a company changes gears from a previously set message when it impacts customers who have operated based on information that you have provided and are now changing from under them.

[TyphonX9]

Xilizhra wrote...

Lets all experience the game, then we can meet back here to chat, eh?

That would be giving Bioware unearned money. We should wait for other people to experience it first.

You'll buy the game.  You'd hardly be on these forums griefing and rabble-rousing if otherwise.

Bioware has you 'emotionally invested'.  Hook, line, sinker.

[Subject One]

Witty_Remark wrote...

Joescrab wrote...

Because no story has ever sounded stupid just from the endings...

Guess what? Frankenstien is a stupid story because all I know is that Franky and his monster die in the end! WTF WHAT A STUPID STORY NO ONE LIVES OMG

You have to understand the context in which these ending occur, because I can promise you Bioware isn't going to leave you high and dry

The Frakenstein story never promised the reader they could decide the outcome. Titanic was tragic, and great, but no one ever promised the watcher had a choice in the outcome.

It is not fair to the consumers of this particular franchise to sell the series on choice and then decide at the eleventh hour to make some kind of artistic statement. Even worse if this was just set up for another series in the franchise, but that is only hearsay rumor at the moment.

This whole debate is fascinating. At least for me.

If Frankenstein story was an 'interactive' videogame we will have the right to change the end avoiding the tragedy of the monster and the doctor? This won't make the whole story pointless?

Bioware has had to choose between giving complete freedom no matter what or to give a  limited range of choices in order to give a ending that matches (al least for them) with the meaning of the trilogy. And they have opted for the latter.

Sure, people who complain has a point: this is interactive, why not just choose what we want? But some stories are way less powerful if you change the ending.

if Casablanca was an interactive movie many viewers would have chosen that Boggey and Bergman ended together ... which would have completely killed the story and the film won't be remembered as a classic. So I honestly think that there isn't an easy answer to the question.

Sorry for the 'Cahiers Du Videogame' comment. Maybe I think too much. Let me try something more akin to BSN:

"Pre-Order Cancelled!!!"

Better now?

[Joescrab]

CerberusSoldier wrote...

Op when they added Player choice into it in Mass Effect 1 . It become the players game

Mass Effect 1 WAS your story... Within Bioware's story. No matter how hard you tried, could you prevent the reaper from being destroyed in ME 1? Could you save both Kaiden and Ashley? Could you save Nihlus? No, you couldn't do any of that... But does that mean NONE of your actions affected anything? Some people are mistaking your story for your ending

[Subject One]

Your argument sounds like: "players don't matter", when if there where no players there would be no games.

And without writers there won't be stories. And without developers there won't be games and gamers.

[Dreogan]

RamirezWolfen wrote...

DifferentD17 wrote...

RamirezWolfen wrote...


But what if that was never planned? They can't take away something they never promised to give.

Players planned it. And Devs promised diverse endings.  So they did promise things.

The endings are diverse. If I recall, three different endings with three variations each, so it's 9? At least that's what I heard.  And what the players planned doesn't really matter, as they aren't making the game, no offense though.

EDIT: Spacing. I need to type slower.

I'm sorry, but raw numbers don't convey what's exactly happening with the endings. You could consider Mass Effect 2 to have... a hell of a lot more endings just because it's possible for anyone to die, but it only has one "real" ending: a cutscene of caskets, then followed by a cutscene of the crew. Followed by a cutscene against the galaxy. They just use a cheap trick to show/hide people that lived/died during the final mission. As far as game endings go, especially with such a story and choice-driven game, this is pathetic.

The ending of ME3 is similar, but they added a new technique of changing a camera perspective and palette swap to show which decision you make. A few lines change, maybe an animation or two changes along the way. But the actual ending doesn't change: this is what makes me seethe. Your choices, your decisions, your Shepard has very little influence on anything. Bioware just slams the book shut and screams "AND THEN IT WAS OVER!"

Modifié par Dreogan, 03 mars 2012 - 05:56 .

[Xilizhra]

TyphonX9 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Lets all experience the game, then we can meet back here to chat, eh?

That would be giving Bioware unearned money. We should wait for other people to experience it first.

You'll buy the game.  You'd hardly be on these forums griefing and rabble-rousing if otherwise.

Bioware has you 'emotionally invested'.  Hook, line, sinker.

Er, no. Not only do I not want to torture myself, most of my money is tied up in dental payments right now. I'm not buying the game unless a better ending is added somehow.

[Ihatebadgames]

Xilizhra wrote...

Bioware promised it was your story, and it is your story. It's just not your ENDING. There's a lot to the game that is affected by your decisions, the ending is simply not one of them... I don't see a problem here. You're lying to yourself if you think your actions have absolutely no affect, it just doesn't alter the END TO BIOWARE'S story... MY story and your story could be completely different, but they still had a vision for the way the trilogy should end

And it was a worthless vision, and we shall say so.

I've said so these last couple of days since the endings were released.And if there's not a super double secret ending I will continue to say so till my face is as blue as an Asari.I am really tired of people wanting the only group of endings to be dark and edgy.If I want dark or evil I'll look at the news.Time for bed, night all.

[Xilizhra]

If Frankenstein story was an 'interactive' videogame we will have the right to change the end avoiding the tragedy of the monster and the doctor? This won't make the whole story pointless?

No. It's a story made by us, and we create our own meaning therefrom. By circumventing the tragedy, all it does is change the theme a bit to something about overcoming fear instead of succumbing.

if Casablanca was an interactive movie many viewers would have chosen that Boggey and Bergman ended together ... which would have completely killed the story and the film won't be remembered as a classic. So I honestly think that there isn't an easy answer to the question.

I don't personally like it, but it's also not a video game and wholly different standards apply.

[TyphonX9]

Xilizhra wrote...

Er, no. Not only do I not want to torture myself, most of my money is tied up in dental payments right now. I'm not buying the game unless a better ending is added somehow.

Well then here's to no cavities.  

Cheers.