143 réponses à ce sujet

[Subject One]

Xilizhra wrote...

Mmmmmm... time will tell. I remember when ME2 was launched and the rage here in BSN because the franchise was not an RPG anymore, so it will be remembered as the title were Bioware stab at the back of their fans... Today ME2 is regarded as a classic even with its flaws.

"classic" is pushing it. It was a decent sequel, but fell short of what it could be.

And beyond all the new rage against ME3... do you know what? All the comments I've read from people that actually has played the game are enthusiastic, praising the story even with the plot holes and the lack of diversitiy. So I will wait some weeks before make MY judgement

Three possibilities exist here:
1. There are better endings we haven't seen yet.
2. They're being paid to lie.
3. None of them are actual fans of the series and thus have no emotional investment in any characters.

Xiosite, that has played the Space Edition are neither of the above options.

And I not agree with ME2: even if you think that it is a mediocre game it is one of the titles that has defined this generation. I don't like Call Of Duty at all for example, but deny its influence is absurd. Same with ME2.

[Witty_Remark]

Corvus Metus wrote...

I wonder if the vast majority of posters here, who are complaining about the ME3 ending, would rage after beating the first Baldur's Gate and get... No ending.

I wonder if they play any video game, because its fun to play, regardless of story or lack thereof.

I wonder if they play video games outside of modern role-playing games.

Well I can't speak for everybody else here but I read a lot of books, watch a lot of movies, and play a lot of games. Those are my hobbies. I've been with Bioware for a long time (edit: as a consumer. Definitely not trying to imply I'm an employee or something). I don't look at linear-plot movies, books, etc. and judge ME by those standards.

ME isn't the kind of franchise that you can compare to traditional games, even traditional role-playing games.

It's a choice game that's in a relatively new class. Bioware kind of sets the standards for games like that. I compare ME to other bioware games that utilize that format. The Star wars games, Dragon Age, and so on and so forth.

I guess you could say that in DA the final boss dies no matter the ending, but the endings were over all much more satisfying than ME3's seem to be. You had personal sacrifice, sacrifice of friends, sacrifice of a once-foe, and no sacrifice at all if you made a morally questionable decision to get it.

I think ME3 is going to be an amazing game, I'm not questioning that. I worry only that it sells the overall series a little short. I think they may have been telling the truth when they said ME3 was the best place to jump in to the franchise.

You wouldn't be as emotionally attached to characters. You wouldn't have been given false hope by the themes/endings of the first two games. You wouldn't know what you were promised versus what you were being given.

Someone starting with ME3 won't care as much. Maybe we all shouldn't care so much. *shrug*

But we do. We were groomed to by their decisions with the first two games.

Modifié par Witty_Remark, 03 mars 2012 - 06:31 .

[Xilizhra]

Xiosite, that has played the Space Edition are neither of the above options.

Then either it's the first one, or he has poor taste in endings.

[curelightwounds]

I play a lot of games from a lot of different genres

I play mass effect because it promised choice.it promised that my choices would change the universe and the game would adapt to me.

I play mass efct so I don't have to play a game where Roach has to kill General Shepherd with a knife to the eye because he has to die in the next game and let Price kill the bbg

[Subject One]

Xilizhra wrote...

And, anyway, I don't see why the ending will make the characters better or worse while you are playing the game

The knowledge that they're doomed and everything is pointless.

OK. It sounds as reasonable to me as 'I hate my life because I will die no matter what I do in the end'. I prefer to just play and see if I enjoy or hate the game by myself, but you can do what you want, of course.

[Xilizhra]

Subject One wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And, anyway, I don't see why the ending will make the characters better or worse while you are playing the game

The knowledge that they're doomed and everything is pointless.

OK. It sounds as reasonable to me as 'I hate my life because I will die no matter what I do in the end'. I prefer to just play and see if I enjoy or hate the game by myself, but you can do what you want, of course.

I don't plan on dying. Technology is advancing rather quickly; in several more decades, there may be more options. But the point is that there, there's still uncertainty.

[KMYash]

I just have to say that we don't have to 'deal with it'. Its a sad point in life when you let a company dictate what you want. If I don't want to spend money on a game because of a story that's my right as a consumer.

You're right that Bioware can do whatever they want to the game, that's true 100%, but so many people seem to be of the opinion that canceling orders or saying that we're not buying/not buying until we hear more is whiny. Again, our money and our right NOT to buy. We also have the right to express why we are or aren't going to buy in hopes that our choice in whether we buy or not makes an impact on the company so they can see what their consumer base wants.

[xtorma]

It would seem Bioware knows they will lose some fans over this. they made a choice to accept that for the sake of thier art. I can respect that. I don't have to like it though.

I don't think it will make much difference in the long run. Bioware has already screwed the pooch with da2 and swtor, and it's not effecting thier sales much.

Another company will eventually give us the experience we are looking for, i was hoping it would be bioware, and the last two games gave me a lot of hope. A lot of folks feel the rug has been pulled out from under them , and the best arguments we get to our objections are.....deal with it from fans....and a big goose egg from bioware.

Ok i will deal with it....by giving bioware a big goose egg.

[GBGriffin]

Xilizhra wrote...

Xiosite, that has played the Space Edition are neither of the above options.

Then either it's the first one, or he has poor taste in endings.

Haha, how are those the only two remaining options? Are you just ignoring the possibility that, for one reason or another, they just wrote a crappy ending out of sheer misguided loyalty that BioWare wouldn't "do this"?

[KBomb]

Joescrab wrote...


Well then I'll make my own informed decision after experiencing the game myself and not throw myself into a coma by raging over something completely out of context... Crazy idea, right?

 
Well, if you were going to do that anyway, why care if others complain or criticize?


I do not understand why people continue making these threads and defending Bioware as if we held them down on the playground and gave them noogies like big bad scary bullies.


I agree that sometimes the concerns spill over into vitriol and insults and that isn't productive or okay. However, most people have just been honestly shocked and puzzled by these endings and have every right as consumers to make that known. Bioware is a commercial enitiy. They're not your BBF. They aren't coming over to your house to hang out with you or hang around for pillow fights and facials. They're a company who makes a product for consumers to buy. As a company, I am certain(at least I hope) they are well aware that sometimes they're going to hear criticism, constructive or otherwise. They seem like really great guys who like to interact with the community, but at the end of the day, it's business.


You're happy with what you've seen so far. Wonderful. I am glad. Bioware is surely glad. Some are not happy with what they have seen so far. Myself included and a lot of these people who have serious doubts and concerns are still willing to give the game a chance. The fact I haven't canceled my pre-order says that. So, you know. There isn't a need to continue to tell people how to feel about a game that you're not buying for them. As you make up your own mind, allow others that same courtesy.

[Uhh.. Jonah]

Bioware doesn't just make the game for them, they make it for us. No one asked for this BS.

[Xilizhra]

GBGriffin wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Xiosite, that has played the Space Edition are neither of the above options.

Then either it's the first one, or he has poor taste in endings.

Haha, how are those the only two remaining options? Are you just ignoring the possibility that, for one reason or another, they just wrote a crappy ending out of sheer misguided loyalty that BioWare wouldn't "do this"?

If he has poor taste in endings, it logically follows that Bioware did in fact write a crappy ending.

[Subject One]

Xilizhra wrote...

Xiosite, that has played the Space Edition are neither of the above options.

Then either it's the first one, or he has poor taste in endings.

Xiosite deserve respect for their opinions. Especially considering he really has played the game and we do not.
And frankly disqualify him because you are pissed with Bioware seems out of place.

Modifié par Subject One, 03 mars 2012 - 06:37 .

[Corvus Metus]

GBGriffin wrote...

Corvus Metus wrote...

I wonder if the vast majority of posters here, who are complaining about the ME3 ending, would rage after beating the first Baldur's Gate and get... No ending.

I wonder if they play any video game, because its fun to play, regardless of story or lack thereof.

I wonder if they play video games outside of modern role-playing games.

Apples and oranges, really. Different series, entirely different pretenses.

It's still a video game.  You still play it, because the gameplay is enjoyable.  If Mass Effect played like **** no one would care about it, no matter how great the story/characters/choices were and if they did, chances are they wouldn't have more than one playthrough. 

Maybe I'm rare when it comes to being a ME fan, but I've never played the games for an ending.  I played the games because I enjoyed the characters and the gameplay.   Hell, in my first ME2 playthrough as a Paragade and getting utterly ****ing up Thane's loyalty mission I lost half my crew... And I liked them all.  If I hadn't lost that save, I would have imported it into ME3 because it was bad.

[Xilizhra]

Subject One wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Xiosite, that has played the Space Edition are neither of the above options.

Then either it's the first one, or he has poor taste in endings.

Xiosite deserve respect for their opinions. Especially considering he really has played the game and we do not.
And frankly disqualify him because you are pissed with Bioware seems out of place.

I respect his right to have an opinion. I maintain my right to my own.

[MythicLegands]

Corvus Metus wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

Corvus Metus wrote...

I wonder if the vast majority of posters here, who are complaining about the ME3 ending, would rage after beating the first Baldur's Gate and get... No ending.

I wonder if they play any video game, because its fun to play, regardless of story or lack thereof.

I wonder if they play video games outside of modern role-playing games.

Apples and oranges, really. Different series, entirely different pretenses.

.  If Mass Effect played like **** no one would care about it, no matter how great the story/characters/choices were and if they did, chances are they wouldn't have more than one playthrough. 

I find this funny for some reason, the mass effect games aren't really great for their gameplay.

[Corvus Metus]

Xilizhra wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Xiosite, that has played the Space Edition are neither of the above options.

Then either it's the first one, or he has poor taste in endings.

Haha, how are those the only two remaining options? Are you just ignoring the possibility that, for one reason or another, they just wrote a crappy ending out of sheer misguided loyalty that BioWare wouldn't "do this"?

If he has poor taste in endings, it logically follows that Bioware did in fact write a crappy ending.

I dislike when people think that their tastes how somehow superior to other people's when something like enjoying a movie, game, or band is entirely superficial.

[GBGriffin]

Corvus Metus wrote...


It's still a video game.  You still play it, because the gameplay is enjoyable.  If Mass Effect played like **** no one would care about it, no matter how great the story/characters/choices were and if they did, chances are they wouldn't have more than one playthrough. 

Maybe I'm rare when it comes to being a ME fan, but I've never played the games for an ending.  I played the games because I enjoyed the characters and the gameplay.   Hell, in my first ME2 playthrough as a Paragade and getting utterly ****ing up Thane's loyalty mission I lost half my crew... And I liked them all.  If I hadn't lost that save, I would have imported it into ME3 because it was bad.

I play different games for different reasons. For some, I enjoy just plain gameplay. For others, like Mass Effect, I like the RPG elements and character development more than the gameplay itself. You even admit that the combination of characters and gameplay are why you played the games.

To be fair, I hated how ME1 played when compared to ME2, but I still thought it had the better overall plot and played it for that reason.

The reason the ending matters, in this case, is because it essentially wrecks one of the elements that we both seem to care about, though maybe on different levels: the characters. Like I said, I was prepared for my Shep to die. I wasn't prepared for going through all the effort to do the best for my crew to see them get this kind of treatment in every ending.

Modifié par GBGriffin, 03 mars 2012 - 06:45 .

[Multiplayer optional LOL]

Joescrab wrote...

This is Bioware's game, not yours. This is Bioware's story, not yours. Yes, you have some impact on individual character's stories and can impact the end of the game to a degree, but this game is ending the way Bioware wants. What many people seem to forget is that this is a labor of love that Bioware has worked on for over half a decade, and if they want bitter endings then they are gonna have some bitter endings. Everyone needs to stop being so worked up over the endings and start appreciating the unique path they are taking going for a darker ending to an epic trilogy instead of a rainbow and sunshine one. Can you even remember the last time a HUGE series like this has ended on a dark note? I sure as hell can't, and I give massive props to Bioware allowing one of the biggest franchises ever to go out the way they want, and not how anyone else does.

It's their story, their franchise, and their ending. Deal with it.

If you don't open your mouth and post stuff like that, people won't know you're we todd did.

I know many game series that ended on a dark note. This is however the first series that looks set to end on a dark and STUPID note. Stupid because it makes most of your choices and your planning in all 3 games irrelevant. And stupid because BW keeps milking the 'choices' bit as the highlight of Mass Effect.

High LIGHT indeed. Red, Blue and Green turds thrown at the player's faces.

[Subject One]

MythicLegands wrote...

Corvus Metus wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

Corvus Metus wrote...

I wonder if the vast majority of posters here, who are complaining about the ME3 ending, would rage after beating the first Baldur's Gate and get... No ending.

I wonder if they play any video game, because its fun to play, regardless of story or lack thereof.

I wonder if they play video games outside of modern role-playing games.

Apples and oranges, really. Different series, entirely different pretenses.

.  If Mass Effect played like **** no one would care about it, no matter how great the story/characters/choices were and if they did, chances are they wouldn't have more than one playthrough. 

I find this funny for some reason, the mass effect games aren't really great for their gameplay.

OK. But they aren't great for let the player choose between a lot of different endings (ME1-2 endings are pretty similar and leave only one major choice to the player) and now it seems that if ME3 does the same will be the end of the world.

[Corvus Metus]

MythicLegands wrote...

Corvus Metus wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

Corvus Metus wrote...

I wonder if the vast majority of posters here, who are complaining about the ME3 ending, would rage after beating the first Baldur's Gate and get... No ending.

I wonder if they play any video game, because its fun to play, regardless of story or lack thereof.

I wonder if they play video games outside of modern role-playing games.

Apples and oranges, really. Different series, entirely different pretenses.

.  If Mass Effect played like **** no one would care about it, no matter how great the story/characters/choices were and if they did, chances are they wouldn't have more than one playthrough. 

I find this funny for some reason, the mass effect games aren't really great for their gameplay.

Eh, I personally enjoyed the gameplay, sans the Mako in the first.   While its no Baldur's Gate (I'm a D&D nerd at heart) they all have better gameplay than DA:O and the third was a blast based on the demo.

[Corvus Metus]

GBGriffin wrote...

Corvus Metus wrote...


It's still a video game.  You still play it, because the gameplay is enjoyable.  If Mass Effect played like **** no one would care about it, no matter how great the story/characters/choices were and if they did, chances are they wouldn't have more than one playthrough. 

Maybe I'm rare when it comes to being a ME fan, but I've never played the games for an ending.  I played the games because I enjoyed the characters and the gameplay.   Hell, in my first ME2 playthrough as a Paragade and getting utterly ****ing up Thane's loyalty mission I lost half my crew... And I liked them all.  If I hadn't lost that save, I would have imported it into ME3 because it was bad.

I play different games for different reasons. For some, I enjoy just plain gameplay. For others, like Mass Effect, I like the RPG elements and character development more than the gameplay itself. You even admit that the combination of characters and gameplay are why you played the games.

To be fair, I hated how ME1 played when compared to ME2, but I still thought it had the better overall plot and played it for that reason.

The reason the ending matters, in this case, is because it essentially wrecks one of the elements that we both seem to care about, though maybe on different levels: the characters. Like I said, I was prepared for my Shep to die. I wasn't prepared for going through all the effort to do the best for my crew to see them get this kind of treatment in every ending.

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not thrilled with the way the crew is treated either.   That will disappoint me, without a doubt.   But it doesn't mean that I won't enjoy reconnecting with the crew and fighting, even if it means loosing.

[Icinix]

A simple fact you seem to be missing is that they were marketing it as 'your story' and its 'your Shepard'.

Also - its not SOME bitter endings.

ALL endings are bitter.

[Eradyn]

I fully support BW's right to burn their IP to the ground. I only wish they'd pay for all the popcorn I'm going to go through in the coming weeks. Oh, and refund me for all those years of wasted investment.

On a related note: Games are the only form of entertainment where the consumer becomes a living conduit and active participant of the developers' creation. By our manipulations and investment, we become a part of this collective experience, which could not find its potential without our involvement. This entertainment medium is not like others where we serve as passive observers; no, we are active participants. As such, we have invested some degree of time, money, and emotion into various games. To simply say, "it belongs solely to the developers who need answer to no one else," while technically true, is ultimately unwise and misguided as it ignores this basic reality in this particular entertainment medium.

Modifié par Eradyn, 03 mars 2012 - 07:14 .