Bentebent wrote...
Aesieru wrote...
You are assuming far too much without context, it wasn't magic, maybe it traveled through the damn relay for all you know.
--- He doesn't actually control it!
A relay going through a relay?
Yeah, I'd rather go with magic.
Zyrious wrote...
I wish people would stop acting like "Destroy" Renders space travel non-existent. It doesn't. FTL still exists, space ships still exist, only all AI (including the reapers and relays as a result of the process) is destroyed. That's it. Earth will maintain contact with it's colonies. It takes 27 years with FTL to cross the galaxy, which is 100,000 lightyears in diameter. Most of Earth's colonies are much closer than that, and in the meantime those colonies can main tain trade with nearby worlds.
Destroy removes the relays, yes, but the main theme of Mass Effect has also been that reliance on the relays is what has been the downfall of every prior civilization. Now civilizations must adapt and "Find another way". They will survive. And in Destroy, they will find a way to survive WITHOUT having a MASSIVE change FORCED upon them. I am honestly surprised at how many people would willingly justify forcing Synergy on TRILLIONS, when billions have died in many wars to maintain ones own individuality, individual cultures and religions and ideologies, and many trillions more would rather die than suffer such a fate. Who are you to decide wether synergy is a better life for them?
Guest_Imperium Alpha_*
Canned Bullets wrote...
Nathan Redgrave wrote...
Joescrab wrote...
Ruins the purpose of being "human" per se though... What's the point of living then?
It only ruins the purpose if it removes their capacity for individuality and free will, but in this scenario what's happening is that all organics are becoming partially synthetic... and all synthetics are becoming partially organic. Yes, that includes the Reapers, apparently.
So do Humans keep their personality after getting cybernetic implants?
Zyrious wrote...
royard wrote...
Zyrious wrote...
royard wrote...
Zyrious wrote...
Destroy removes the relays, yes, but the main theme of Mass Effect has also been that reliance on the relays is what has been the downfall of every prior civilization.
Right, they totally failed due to their own error, because there were never any ridiculously powerful aliens slaughtering them at all.
Again, it has been said across all 3 games that the relays were used so that all the races would develope along the technological path set forth by said powerful aliens so that people couldn't overpower the reapers with unique and possibly superior tech, because they become reliant on "Hand me down" technology, as it were. Destroying that forces every species to begin developing along their own path. Necessity is the key to invention. Reapers removed a lot of necessity.
Because you like reinventing the wheel? Seriously, necessity will arise in the future and people will invent new things.
Even if you destroy, which one is the easier path? Rebuilding the relay will be easier since there are so many reaper bodies lying around.
In order to rebuild the relays they have to understand how they work, even that is a better option. Relying on tech they don't understand, they can never reach their full potential or the full potential of the technology. When they learn how it works they'll not only be able to add their own spin to it, but they can spread amongst the galaxy as they see fit, rather than the pre-defined cage of the reapers. Either way, humanity and the rest of the galaxy gains a new insight into how it all works, and thus more control over it. And it's better than maintaining the cycle or forcing synergy on an unsuspecting galaxy.
Bentebent wrote...
An evolution, which according to the cycle, is the natural way to go as it apparently always happens.Zyrious wrote...
If you use merge YOU are forcing a form of evolution on everyone. If you choose Control, as stated by xio, you are maintaining the Cycle, but delaying it. You can't just fly the reapers into the sun, you are still constrained by the protocols of the citadel. In Destroy, you remove the relays, maintain everyone's freedom and identity, and are allowing everyone to develope along their own technological path's. Thus, allowing more natural evolution of culture and tech, rather than the guided form by the reapers.
Why can't you fly them into the sun? The Guardian explicitly says "I control the Reapers", unless you can show anything that contradicts this, you're just flat out wrong.
Considering how dependant most planets are upon intergalactic trade, I wouldn't be surprised if most planets went to **** fast, real fast. Earth especially.
Ypiret wrote...
Zyrious wrote...
I wish people would stop acting like "Destroy" Renders space travel non-existent. It doesn't. FTL still exists, space ships still exist, only all AI (including the reapers and relays as a result of the process) is destroyed. That's it. Earth will maintain contact with it's colonies. It takes 27 years with FTL to cross the galaxy, which is 100,000 lightyears in diameter. Most of Earth's colonies are much closer than that, and in the meantime those colonies can main tain trade with nearby worlds.
Destroy removes the relays, yes, but the main theme of Mass Effect has also been that reliance on the relays is what has been the downfall of every prior civilization. Now civilizations must adapt and "Find another way". They will survive. And in Destroy, they will find a way to survive WITHOUT having a MASSIVE change FORCED upon them. I am honestly surprised at how many people would willingly justify forcing Synergy on TRILLIONS, when billions have died in many wars to maintain ones own individuality, individual cultures and religions and ideologies, and many trillions more would rather die than suffer such a fate. Who are you to decide wether synergy is a better life for them?
Again, people assuming Synergy ruins everything.
I'd also like to note that you're totally disregarding AI as "beings". I think it's safe to say that the Geth and AI like EDI (who is aparently capable of falling in love) are just about as "human" as the organic races are. I'd rather forcfully alter everyones body then exterminate and entire group of "people" for the benefit of my own. There's a reason Destroy is the renegade option; It's putting your kind before others.
royard wrote...
Zyrious wrote...
royard wrote...
Zyrious wrote...
royard wrote...
Zyrious wrote...
Destroy removes the relays, yes, but the main theme of Mass Effect has also been that reliance on the relays is what has been the downfall of every prior civilization.
Right, they totally failed due to their own error, because there were never any ridiculously powerful aliens slaughtering them at all.
Again, it has been said across all 3 games that the relays were used so that all the races would develope along the technological path set forth by said powerful aliens so that people couldn't overpower the reapers with unique and possibly superior tech, because they become reliant on "Hand me down" technology, as it were. Destroying that forces every species to begin developing along their own path. Necessity is the key to invention. Reapers removed a lot of necessity.
Because you like reinventing the wheel? Seriously, necessity will arise in the future and people will invent new things.
Even if you destroy, which one is the easier path? Rebuilding the relay will be easier since there are so many reaper bodies lying around.
In order to rebuild the relays they have to understand how they work, even that is a better option. Relying on tech they don't understand, they can never reach their full potential or the full potential of the technology. When they learn how it works they'll not only be able to add their own spin to it, but they can spread amongst the galaxy as they see fit, rather than the pre-defined cage of the reapers. Either way, humanity and the rest of the galaxy gains a new insight into how it all works, and thus more control over it. And it's better than maintaining the cycle or forcing synergy on an unsuspecting galaxy.
This is really getting funny. You know what? Protheans DID try to understand the relays. They actually DID build a new one. If reapers didn't slaughter them, they will be fine. The reaper army was the ONLY thing standing between them and a golden age.
Zyrious wrote...
No, it isnt the natural way to go, go read the indepth endings by Xio. Merge is something that has NEVER happened. What happened that the reapers are afraid of, is the creation of a synthetic being so superior to organics it wipes out all life in the universe forever and all eternity, the reapers were create to wipe out organic life before they reach what they believe is an inevitable point of technological advancement. If you choose destroy, shepard refuses to give in to fear and doesn't believe it is inevitable. If you choose merge, you are redifining the very nature of existence in order to force an understanding of synthetics upon organic life and prevent the risk of tech singularity. If you choose control, you do so specifically because you are deciding the cycle may, in fact, be necessary.
Remember, the gaurdian, again stated many times, is not the reaper leader. He just makes sure the reapers follow the protocol of preventing tech singularity by wiping out all organic life before it gains the tech to create such a powerful AI.
Eclipse_9990 wrote...
I hope in ME4 we'll have the option to import all the endings. I want to see if I was right after all(Though I'm already sure that I am!).
Bentebent wrote...
Zyrious wrote...
No, it isnt the natural way to go, go read the indepth endings by Xio. Merge is something that has NEVER happened. What happened that the reapers are afraid of, is the creation of a synthetic being so superior to organics it wipes out all life in the universe forever and all eternity, the reapers were create to wipe out organic life before they reach what they believe is an inevitable point of technological advancement. If you choose destroy, shepard refuses to give in to fear and doesn't believe it is inevitable. If you choose merge, you are redifining the very nature of existence in order to force an understanding of synthetics upon organic life and prevent the risk of tech singularity. If you choose control, you do so specifically because you are deciding the cycle may, in fact, be necessary.
Remember, the gaurdian, again stated many times, is not the reaper leader. He just makes sure the reapers follow the protocol of preventing tech singularity by wiping out all organic life before it gains the tech to create such a powerful AI.
Again, the Guardian explicitly says "I control the reapers". That's about as clear as it gets.
Of course the technological singularity is the natural way to go if it occurs, without exception, in every single society given enough time. That's pretty much as definitive as it gets.
Also, army of synthetics exterminating organics just so they won't build an army of synthetics that will exterminate organics.
Herp derp
Bentebent wrote...
Zyrious wrote...
No, it isnt the natural way to go, go read the indepth endings by Xio. Merge is something that has NEVER happened. What happened that the reapers are afraid of, is the creation of a synthetic being so superior to organics it wipes out all life in the universe forever and all eternity, the reapers were create to wipe out organic life before they reach what they believe is an inevitable point of technological advancement. If you choose destroy, shepard refuses to give in to fear and doesn't believe it is inevitable. If you choose merge, you are redifining the very nature of existence in order to force an understanding of synthetics upon organic life and prevent the risk of tech singularity. If you choose control, you do so specifically because you are deciding the cycle may, in fact, be necessary.
Remember, the gaurdian, again stated many times, is not the reaper leader. He just makes sure the reapers follow the protocol of preventing tech singularity by wiping out all organic life before it gains the tech to create such a powerful AI.
Again, the Guardian explicitly says "I control the reapers". That's about as clear as it gets.
Of course the technological singularity is the natural way to go if it occurs, without exception, in every single society given enough time. That's pretty much as definitive as it gets.
Also, army of synthetics exterminating organics just so they won't build an army of synthetics that will exterminate organics.
Herp derp
Zyrious wrote...
Bentebent wrote...
Zyrious wrote...
No, it isnt the natural way to go, go read the indepth endings by Xio. Merge is something that has NEVER happened. What happened that the reapers are afraid of, is the creation of a synthetic being so superior to organics it wipes out all life in the universe forever and all eternity, the reapers were create to wipe out organic life before they reach what they believe is an inevitable point of technological advancement. If you choose destroy, shepard refuses to give in to fear and doesn't believe it is inevitable. If you choose merge, you are redifining the very nature of existence in order to force an understanding of synthetics upon organic life and prevent the risk of tech singularity. If you choose control, you do so specifically because you are deciding the cycle may, in fact, be necessary.
Remember, the gaurdian, again stated many times, is not the reaper leader. He just makes sure the reapers follow the protocol of preventing tech singularity by wiping out all organic life before it gains the tech to create such a powerful AI.
Again, the Guardian explicitly says "I control the reapers". That's about as clear as it gets.
Of course the technological singularity is the natural way to go if it occurs, without exception, in every single society given enough time. That's pretty much as definitive as it gets.
Also, army of synthetics exterminating organics just so they won't build an army of synthetics that will exterminate organics.
Herp derp
That's the writers for you. Shooting someone so they won't commit suicide. The gaurdian, again, tells you how he controls the reapers in that he FORCES THE PROTOCOLS DEFINED IN HIM to maintain the cycle. Nothing more, nothing less. If you choose control, you specifically say to do so to maintain the cycle. Stated, in detail, by Xio. If you choose Merge, you a forcing a merging of synthetic and organic on all life in the galaxy in order to force a new way of thinking and existence in order to prevent the tech singularity. If you choose Destroy, you say you don't believe either is necessary and that nothing is inevitable (Infact the gaurdian is purportedly caught off gaurd by the Quarians and Geth assisting eachother. Something which should be impossible from its perspective.).
Modifié par Aesieru, 03 mars 2012 - 07:18 .
Aesieru wrote...
Anyone who uses things like "herp derp" is pretty much classified as a ridiculously juvenile idiot and shouldn't have access to the internet or life.
Based on you rstatements, you really don't have much of a keen intellect if you cant understand the logic of why they are doing it.
Guest_Imperium Alpha_*
Bentebent wrote...
Eclipse_9990 wrote...
I hope in ME4 we'll have the option to import all the endings. I want to see if I was right after all(Though I'm already sure that I am!).
Hey, they copied the ending of Deus Ex, why not copy the intro of Invisible War as well?
Bentebent wrote...
Aesieru wrote...
Anyone who uses things like "herp derp" is pretty much classified as a ridiculously juvenile idiot and shouldn't have access to the internet or life.
Based on you rstatements, you really don't have much of a keen intellect if you cant understand the logic of why they are doing it.
Calling someone on the interwebz an idiot and insulting his intelligence instead of refuting his arguments are surely a much more mature way of handling things.
You're terrible at this.
Aesieru wrote...
Anyone using immature language that makes me want to remove them from the gene pool does not deserve mercy.
Bentebent wrote...
Aesieru wrote...
Anyone using immature language that makes me want to remove them from the gene pool does not deserve mercy.
Ooh, death threats. That's hardcore, bruh.
Aesieru wrote...
Not a death threat, more like preferring you didn't reproduce.
Bentebent wrote...
Again, the Guardian explicitly says "I control the reapers". That's about as clear as it gets.
Of course the technological singularity is the natural way to go if it occurs, without exception, in every single society given enough time. That's pretty much as definitive as it gets.
Also, army of synthetics exterminating organics just so they won't build an army of synthetics that will exterminate organics.
Herp derp
Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 03 mars 2012 - 07:34 .
Balek-Vriege wrote...
Bentebent wrote...
Again, the Guardian explicitly says "I control the reapers". That's about as clear as it gets.
Of course the technological singularity is the natural way to go if it occurs, without exception, in every single society given enough time. That's pretty much as definitive as it gets.
Also, army of synthetics exterminating organics just so they won't build an army of synthetics that will exterminate organics.
Herp derp
True. A runaway intelligence is almost assured and realistically possible in reality as well, sooner rather than later. All it takes is an AI able to improve itself continuously. It might not even have the intent of killing all organic life, but in the process of perfecting itself wipes us out anyways. Destroy leads to a definite galactic reset which will either lead to our own Reaper like solution someday or a technological singularity without their oversight. Control is admitting the Reaper solution is best, but Shepard gets to delay it to see if civilization can avoid a singularity even with Reaper tech. Merge is trying something new and creating a new race(s), combining organic and machine to keep the best qualities of organics, while making them self reliant by building in perfected AI/tech capabilities into each individual. The sacrifice being that this cybernetic tampering basically creates a new way of thinking, sacrificing what was unique out all the various races for something "better" long term.
In an earlier post I mentioned that it would basically make everyone cybernetic versions of mentats from the Dune series. After posting that I remembered that the ultimate end (I think) of the Dune universe is actually a peace between organic and aritifical life after some big AI baddies return and both paths (AI and Organic) seem destined to failure. Kind of foreshadows the same thing as the merge option in ME.
Balek-Vriege wrote...
Bentebent wrote...
Again, the Guardian explicitly says "I control the reapers". That's about as clear as it gets.
Of course the technological singularity is the natural way to go if it occurs, without exception, in every single society given enough time. That's pretty much as definitive as it gets.
Also, army of synthetics exterminating organics just so they won't build an army of synthetics that will exterminate organics.
Herp derp
True. A runaway intelligence is almost assured and realistically possible in reality as well, sooner rather than later. All it takes is an AI able to improve itself continuously. It might not even have the intent of killing all organic life, but in the process of perfecting itself wipes us out anyways. Destroy leads to a definite galactic reset which will either lead to our own Reaper like solution someday or a technological singularity without their oversight. Control is admitting the Reaper solution is best, but Shepard gets to delay it to see if civilization can avoid a singularity even with Reaper tech. Merge is trying something new and creating a new race(s), combining organic and machine to keep the best qualities of organics, while making them self reliant by building in perfected AI/tech capabilities into each individual. The sacrifice being that this cybernetic tampering basically creates a new way of thinking, sacrificing what was unique out all the various races for something "better" long term.
In an earlier post I mentioned that it would basically make everyone cybernetic versions of mentats from the Dune series. After posting that I remembered that the ultimate end (I think) of the Dune universe is actually a peace between organic and aritifical life after some big AI baddies return and both paths (AI and Organic) seem destined to failure. Kind of foreshadows the same thing as the merge option in ME.
Modifié par Aesieru, 03 mars 2012 - 07:37 .
Zyrious wrote...
I dont think tech singularity is inevitable. Infact part of the Geth-Quarian plotline, depending how you handle it, proves that, and even catches gaurdian off gaurd. If you choose destroy, you do so because you refuse to give in to the fear that gaurdians creators did, and that you don't believe it is inevitable. And/or at the end of the day the galaxy has a right to shape its own destiny, rather than have one thrust upon them in Merge or Control.
Aesieru wrote...
It's not really a runaway intelligence so much as something that merely can see no reason for organics anymore.
Modifié par Zyrious, 03 mars 2012 - 08:02 .
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