80 réponses à ce sujet

[Legendaryred]

Anybody can tell what was going to be the dark energy ending? I know it was a big deal on ME2, was the idea weak?

[Icinix]

Taleroth wrote...

Tech singularity has nothing to do with earth. Dark energy or just leaving that out wouldn't have changed the bit at all.

Nothing really has anything to do with Earth - but by going Tech Singularity / Crucible / Citadel - they could at least wedge some kind of reasoning however poor into it to bring the end game to Earth.

I'm not sure they could have pulled off the endings they wanted if it remained with Dark Energy instead of tech singularity.

[evil-pineapples]

Legendaryred wrote...

Anybody can tell what was going to be the dark energy ending? I know it was a big deal on ME2, was the idea weak?

I second this. What do you guys think this would have been? Where's the evidence for it? I'm not doubting you, I just don't know what  you're talking about.

[Darigaazgg]

GDK wrote...

casedawgz wrote...

Its not really the VILLAIN. It's the misguided motivation of the villains. You can call the tech singularity the villain all you want but to me its just the crappy way in which the real villains rationalize their campaign of destruction. I'm going to blow up the Reapers and I'm not going to feel a whit of remorse about it.

I don't see it as the villain either. But the fact that the game makes it the motivation of the Reapers, and then forces you to "stop the singularity" by sending the galaxy into a dark age is forcing us to swallow a concept that came out of nowhere.

And @ Nathan Redgrave: Like I said. I see the references to AI, but you can not logically make the case that the dangers of AI surpassing us was the envisioned plotpoint for the Mass Effect universe as it was originally conceived.

Actually, if you played both games you would see that uncontained AI is something that humans fear. Joker...jokes about it in the second game and Miranda gets pissed at him for unshackling EDI. EDI's presence seems to surprise most of your party members.

[CerberusSoldier]

Oh hell no lazy is not the word for this . This has to be the dumbest game idea I have ever seen in my life . Really so let me get this straight the Mass relays are evil and AI as well the geth and even Edi . This is bull sh** and EA / Bioware know it . I swear if I hear one games media site claim that this developer knows how to tell a story let a lone a sci fi story . I am going off on theme . we need to make a serious statement as gamers we are not happy with this and we will not accept being insulted by this utterly stupid video game story

[Kileyan]

So technology will kill organic life, the only way to stop that is to create a killer race of tech things that kill organic life once they advance so far.

So far so good. Now the same tech gods from darkspace make sure to plant tech around the galaxy and make sure they get advanced enough that they need wiped out.

Seriously this is the most stupid plot I have ever seen. These machine sit around for 1000's of years, and plant tech to make sure they can keep their job as the reapers of races who have advanced tech?

Is there a union for these guys, or are they just independent contractors. Someone must be paying them for such a silly job description.

[Taleroth]

Icinix wrote...

Nothing really has anything to do with Earth - but by going Tech Singularity / Crucible / Citadel - they could at least wedge some kind of reasoning however poor into it to bring the end game to Earth.

No, they couldn't. Earth is the least relevant major power in the galaxy in that regard.

ME2 gave a reason. They didn't need another.

[G3rman]

And then how many people would whine that by the end of all three games we never really discovered what the Reapers were all about and just destroyed them because we had no other choice. They wouldn't have been satisfied with the great unknown evil idea for long.

It was either Singularity or Dark Matter..Singularity was ultimately easier to write and build around a war.

[Icinix]

Taleroth wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Nothing really has anything to do with Earth - but by going Tech Singularity / Crucible / Citadel - they could at least wedge some kind of reasoning however poor into it to bring the end game to Earth.

No, they couldn't. Earth is the least relevant major power in the galaxy in that regard.

ME2 gave a reason. They didn't need another.

Wait...what do you mean ME2 gave a reason?

And I agree - Earth is totally pointless - which is what I'm saying.

But by needing the crucible to dock with the citadel, and the Reapers moving the Citadel to the Earth and funneling humans up to it through a conduit for Reaper smexy time - they were able to make the end game a ground war for Earth, however loose the total logic behind it.  If they had continued a dark energy story line, I can't see how the theads to Earth would have been anything but weaker and less sensical.

Modifié par Icinix, 03 mars 2012 - 07:49 .

[varterral]

Um...SPACE WIZARDS DID IT, BURN THEM *Cue Space Pitchfork Mob*

[Corvus Metus]

Outside of EDI, the game really doesn't seem to portray AI in a positive light.

Sure, at the surface the geth are sympathetic. It seems immoral for the quarians to try and wipe out a self-aware race. At the same time the geth are utterly amoral. In Legion's loyalty mission, he stated more than once that the "geth" really had no issue with the "heretics" even if the heretics goal was genocide of organic races to please their machine gods.

Then you have the moon base VI which turned into an AI and took over a base and started killing people. Or the AI in the Citadel, who became self-aware without his creator's knowledge... And got him thrown in prison and was willing to kill a crap-load of people just because it was also going to "die".

Hell, the whole point of the series seemed to be about the triumph of humanity (all all organics) over machine. Even EDI is "good" because she developed EMOTIONS, rather than existing solely on logic.

[Shahadem]

GDK wrote...

Hayes1987 wrote...

I don't even know what your talking about. Explain?

Apparently the reason the Reapers were created is to cleanse the galaxy to stop something called a "Tech Singularity." This is the idea that AI will become so advanced that it surpasses organic intellect in an explosion of knowledge and the universe will never be the same after it.

Basically: Technology is evil. This is the reason the Reapers kill everyone, and the reason the relays "must" be destroyed. 

Stupid.

But there is a problem with that. The Reapers give the Geth they very technology they need to bring about this "Tech SIngularity".

The Geth themselves can be divided into two different races. There are the Reaper worshippers and the original Geth. The original Geth are peaceful and neither hate nor love organics. They simply wish to be left alone so that they can achieve enlightenment. The Reaper worshipping Geth on the other hand traded some of their free will for enlightenment and are actively hostile to organics.

Perhaps they are pulling the same move Blizzard did when retconning the Overmind for Starcraft II.

Modifié par Shahadem, 03 mars 2012 - 08:21 .

[Kileyan]

[quote]Shahadem wrote...

[quote]GDK wrote...

[quote]Hayes1987 wrote...

I don't even know what your talking about. Explain?[/quote]

Apparently the reason the Reapers were created is to cleanse the galaxy to stop something called a "Tech Singularity." This is the idea that AI will become so advanced that it surpasses organic intellect in an explosion of knowledge and the universe will never be the same after it.

Basically: Technology is evil. This is the reason the Reapers kill everyone, and the reason the relays "must" be destroyed. 

Stupid.

[/quote]

Wel the economy is rough everywhere I guess. There must be a bunch of reapers back home who are just begging for jobs. These darkspace killer reapers needs to keep their jobs. What better way to have job security as a fireman than to set building on fire?

Essentially that seems to be what Mass Effect is. These reapers plant enough tech to make sure they have a job to do every so often. Otherwise why would you be a creature designed to stop people from getting too advance in tech, then plant tech so that the galaxy's races would predictably reach a certain tech level on queue.

The whole game is just some aliens keeping their job alive, or they have to go back home and bag groceries.

Modifié par Kileyan, 03 mars 2012 - 08:35 .

[Kolos2]

Its not just a ME thing, for some reason its a very popular idea in scifi literature nowadays;
Im just reading Star Carrier from Ian Douglas and you have the same singularity, human transcendence trough technology inc and a war with an powerful allen species to stop them achieving it, supposedly for humanity own sake.

I think its getting old very fast

[push2play]

Kileyan wrote...


So far so good. Now the same tech gods from darkspace make sure to plant tech around the galaxy and make sure they get advanced enough that they need wiped out.

No, they leave the tech around to make sure that organic life develops in an orderly, planned and controllable way, so that when the time comes, the Reapers can be succesful in "rebooting" the galaxy for another cycle. Had the relays and Reapers been destroyed (which happens in ME3, thus altering the cycle), organic life might have developed in a way that would lead to its total annihilation.

Basically, the Reapers serve as a balancing force. It's the age old "greater good" adage, that is not immediately apparent. They say so themselves in ME2: "We are your salvation through destruction". This isn't a rabbit the writers pulled out of their arse, this was hinted before. We cull animal populations to ensure their survival. The Reapers cull us, to ensure the same. It's ironic that in a pessimistic interpretation by destroying the Repaers, Shepard will be the ultimate harbinger of death.

Modifié par push2play, 03 mars 2012 - 09:08 .

[Kileyan]

push2play wrote...

Kileyan wrote...


So far so good. Now the same tech gods from darkspace make sure to plant tech around the galaxy and make sure they get advanced enough that they need wiped out.

No, they leave the tech around to make sure that organic life develops in an orderly, planned and controllable way, so that when the time comes, the Reapers can be succesful in "rebooting" the galaxy for another cycle. Had the relays and Reapers been destroyed (which happens in ME3, thus altering the cycle), organic life might have developed in a way that would lead to its total annihilation.

Ahh, so they figure getting too much tech is bad, so they are planting tech and advancing races at an accellerated rate so that they can kill them before they become too far advanced.

Isn't that sort of like a friggin galactic eons level of entrapment? You didn't do anything wrong, so we are going to make sure you do something wrong...............then kill all your civilizations, for you own good.

[Frolk]

RazorrX wrote...

Short answer - during a trip to the head.

They pulled it out of their butts for ME3. It was originally based on the Dark Matter buildup - which was a take off on the Inhibitors from Alastair Reynolds books (starting with Revelation Space)

If so, I can understand why the ME writers went in a different direction.  In the Revelation Space series, the Inhibitors were there because various space-faring species had a tendency to fight with each other, causing massive collateral damage.  In the ME universe, aliens tend to get along well enough, for the most part.  The whole "Reapers are necessary for galactic peace" twist just wouldn't seem credible.

[hippanda]

The problem with the singularity motivation is that it isn't a galaxy-level issue. Periodically wiping out the organic civilizations of the Milky Way does absolutely nothing to prevent it from happening somewhere else in the universe, and once it happens somewhere else, it's only a matter of time before its influence spreads to the Milky Way (and by that time, the tech level of the AI that sprung from the singularity event will probably vastly out-pace the Reapers).

I know the reproduction motivation on its own is a little bland, but it's infinitely superior to the singularity, especially since there was zero foreshadowing of it in the first 2 games. If anything, ME2 went out of its way to dissuade you of the idea that synthetic and organic life was incapable of getting along with the introduction of EDI and Legion.

Modifié par hippanda, 03 mars 2012 - 09:28 .

[Aurica]

hippanda wrote...

The problem with the singularity motivation is that it isn't a galaxy-level issue. Periodically wiping out the organic civilizations of the Milky Way does absolutely nothing to prevent it from happening somewhere else in the universe, .

Maybe the Reapers are doing the same thing elsewhere throughout the universe?

[xtorma]

It's designed to get you to say....damn I have been fighting the reapers and all this time they were the good guys! that makes me a bad guy! oh noes.......press magic space button.

[varterral]

Really, this stuff about reapers protecting us from being converted into evil AI by committing genocide and turning us into new reapers, is just...hard to accept. Shouldnt we have a let reapers win option then?

[hippanda]

Aurica wrote...

hippanda wrote...

The problem with the singularity motivation is that it isn't a galaxy-level issue. Periodically wiping out the organic civilizations of the Milky Way does absolutely nothing to prevent it from happening somewhere else in the universe, .

Maybe the Reapers are doing the same thing elsewhere throughout the universe?

I believe the explanation given for their motivation also touches on the Reapers' origins, heavily implying that they're entirely fixated on the Milky Way galaxy.

[GBGriffin]

varterral wrote...

Really, this stuff about reapers protecting us from being converted into evil AI by committing genocide and turning us into new reapers, is just...hard to accept. Shouldnt we have a let reapers win option then?

Really, I'd say that's what happens in every ending in some form.

[Legendaryred]

evil-pineapples wrote...

Legendaryred wrote...

Anybody can tell what was going to be the dark energy ending? I know it was a big deal on ME2, was the idea weak?

I second this. What do you guys think this would have been? Where's the evidence for it? I'm not doubting you, I just don't know what  you're talking about.

Well during the shadowbroker i believe or with Parasini's encounter I believe she mentions that there is a lot of extranet activity regarding dark energy, and also remember Tali's mission was all around the dark energy stuff and the sun dying too quickly. It was speculated that the geth were using dark energy to make the star die faster, but Tali believes is not possible as there was nothing to gain from that. Anyway i might be wrong or off, but maybe some others can clarify "If it was ever clarified" anything regarding dark energy.

[elessarz]

Was it that hard to posit that the Reapers harvest organic life in order to reproduce? Why impose needless complications on a story which is already complete in its logic. I suppose they had already garroted themselves when they introduced a foe which cannot be stopped physically, only through some sort of gimmick. Personally, I blame The Lord of the Rings for this vicious pattern.