80 réponses à ce sujet

[varterral]

elessarz wrote...

Was it that hard to posit that the Reapers harvest organic life in order to reproduce? Why impose needless complications on a story which is already complete in its logic. I suppose they had already garroted themselves when they introduced a foe which cannot be stopped physically, only through some sort of gimmick. Personally, I blame The Lord of the Rings for this vicious pattern.

Agreed, they didnt need to expand on ME2 lore, reapers should have just been evil dudes who kill to reproduce. End of Story.

[Kileyan]

xtorma wrote...

It's designed to get you to say....damn I have been fighting the reapers and all this time they were the good guys! that makes me a bad guy! oh noes.......press magic space button.

No it is the magic space something awesome happens button.

[Elios]

OP i think you really need to read a free Ebook called Accelerando
http://en.wikipedia....lerando_(novel)
also playing the the new Deus Ex game wouldnt hurt too VERY good

and one else here how doesnt get what the Singularity is just an FYI we are very much headed that way

[Chrysantemum]

The way I see it, the 'tech-singularity' nothing that is 'real' but rather a delusional thought experiment which became a motivation for the Reapers to do what they do. It's kinda sad, really. Despite what they do, the Reapers are hyper-advanced technological marvels that have left their mark on the galaxy for millions of years, yet they cannot see beyond the delusions of their creators.

Kinda tragic, really.

[Kileyan]

Elios wrote...

OP i think you really need to read a free Ebook called Accelerando
http://en.wikipedia....lerando_(novel)
also playing the the new Deus Ex game wouldnt hurt too VERY good

and one else here how doesnt get what the Singularity is just an FYI we are very much headed that way

No, we aren't really headed there. Our Tech is moving fast but our software is not. We are creating machines at a fast rate, but our AI development is crawling. That event involves our machines and thinking AI growing at expotention rates. As is stands we have pretty fast machines, but barely any better AI than 10 years ago. The psuedo AI's are not better because they are much more advanced than 10 years ago, they just seem better because the machines they run on are fast.

We have a long way to go before Skynet.

[Elios]

this has nothing to do with AI AT ALL
but more Transhumanism and the merge of 'us' and machines the AI will come in time but it need not be strong AI yet
again you need to read Accelerando it starts slow then then picks of steam and will be on us be for we know it
we already have full simulations of brains of small mammals ie cats, dogs, rats
it really is only a matter of time we have the computational power to do a full simulation of a human mind atm that would take the world fastest super computer but our gaming PCs are faster then the Super computers of only 10 years a go

The Singularity is coming
and its not "Skynet" it will be Human+

Modifié par Elios, 03 mars 2012 - 10:16 .

[evil-pineapples]

Elios wrote...

this has nothing to do with AI AT ALL
but more Transhumanism and the merge of 'us' and machines the AI will come in time but it need not be strong AI yet
again you need to read Accelerando it starts slow then then picks of steam and will be on us be for we know it
we already have full simulations of brains of small mammals ie cats, dogs, rats
it really is only a matter of time we have the computational power to do a full simulation of a human mind atm that would take the world fastest super computer but our gaming PCs are faster then the Super computers of only 10 years a go

The Singularity is coming
and its not "Skynet" it will be Human+

I fail to see how this will result in the destruction of the human race.

[xtorma]

Kileyan wrote...

Elios wrote...

OP i think you really need to read a free Ebook called Accelerando
http://en.wikipedia....lerando_(novel)
also playing the the new Deus Ex game wouldnt hurt too VERY good

and one else here how doesnt get what the Singularity is just an FYI we are very much headed that way

No, we aren't really headed there. Our Tech is moving fast but our software is not. We are creating machines at a fast rate, but our AI development is crawling. That event involves our machines and thinking AI growing at expotention rates. As is stands we have pretty fast machines, but barely any better AI than 10 years ago. The psuedo AI's are not better because they are much more advanced than 10 years ago, they just seem better because the machines they run on are fast.

We have a long way to go before Skynet.

moore's law is comming to it;s head soon. we are going to need new computers to advance after too long. quatum or dna, or some such.

[Elios]

evil-pineapples wrote...

Elios wrote...

this has nothing to do with AI AT ALL
but more Transhumanism and the merge of 'us' and machines the AI will come in time but it need not be strong AI yet
again you need to read Accelerando it starts slow then then picks of steam and will be on us be for we know it
we already have full simulations of brains of small mammals ie cats, dogs, rats
it really is only a matter of time we have the computational power to do a full simulation of a human mind atm that would take the world fastest super computer but our gaming PCs are faster then the Super computers of only 10 years a go

The Singularity is coming
and its not "Skynet" it will be Human+

I fail to see how this will result in the destruction of the human race.

your right it wont but some will see transhumisum as dehumanization as we merge with and become more mechine and less flesh and blood

[thane0909]

It's simply the writers going up their own back-sides and trying to complicate a story that was never that complicated.

[john-in-france]

hmmmm, seen it before....Check out the endings for Deux Ex (Helios), just saying (whistles.....)

[kotli]

Icinix wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Tech singularity has nothing to do with earth. Dark energy or just leaving that out wouldn't have changed the bit at all.

Nothing really has anything to do with Earth - but by going Tech Singularity / Crucible / Citadel - they could at least wedge some kind of reasoning however poor into it to bring the end game to Earth.

I'm not sure they could have pulled off the endings they wanted if it remained with Dark Energy instead of tech singularity.

Snort all they needed to do was write into the story line that the Sol system was the nearest remaining place to the
Reaper hiding place in dark space, to make Earth where the Reapers hit first. Based on The Arrval DLC and where the Citadel is that would fit in just fine based on map. Note the Citadal was where the Reapers where going to start their purge in ME1.

Modifié par kotli, 03 mars 2012 - 02:24 .

[CerberusSoldier]

varterral wrote...

Really, this stuff about reapers protecting us from being converted into evil AI by committing genocide and turning us into new reapers, is just...hard to accept. Shouldnt we have a let reapers win option then?

   



In a way they win anyways

[Savadrin]

RazorrX wrote...

Short answer - during a trip to the head.

They pulled it out of their butts for ME3. It was originally based on the Dark Matter buildup - which was a take off on the Inhibitors from Alastair Reynolds books (starting with Revelation Space)

look up the Fermi Paradox. it's not just alastair reynolds. it's common in sci-fi to posit a universe where humanity expands through the galaxy but only finds a few, if any, sentient races. comparing the estimated number of total stars in the galaxy, and the estimated possible life supporting capable planets, the actual odds of us truly being "alone" in the universe are infinitesimally small, which leads to the inevitable question of "where are they?"


one of my favorite series about this was Ian Douglas's galactic marines.

[Aesieru]

If any of you bothered to actually think about it and to think of what the planet logs have been telling you, what the encounters with AI have been telling you, what the thoughts towards AI have revealed in the game and of course what the relays have given and not given, as well as how people barely invent anything outside of newer versions of whats already there because they don't need... and then correspond that with what the Reapers have been saying either through Sovereign and, or Harbinger...

Then the Tech Singularity isn't actually some dumb theory, you're just too dumb to understand it clearly.

I for one would rather a period of starvation and death during a process of revitalized innovation and advancement and thinking outside the Relax mind-prison, instead of extermination by Reapers or an AI Threat that expands over a period of thousands upon thousands of years and devours everything and sees no need for organics.

---

With all the lore and games recently played in the past 3 days as I made a new Paragon ME2 save for transfer, I can safely say you that with 100% completion we were NEVER led to believe that the Reapers only came to build more Reapers, NEVER.

Modifié par Aesieru, 03 mars 2012 - 03:15 .

[CerberusSoldier]

Savadrin wrote...

RazorrX wrote...

Short answer - during a trip to the head.

They pulled it out of their butts for ME3. It was originally based on the Dark Matter buildup - which was a take off on the Inhibitors from Alastair Reynolds books (starting with Revelation Space)

look up the Fermi Paradox. it's not just alastair reynolds. it's common in sci-fi to posit a universe where humanity expands through the galaxy but only finds a few, if any, sentient races. comparing the estimated number of total stars in the galaxy, and the estimated possible life supporting capable planets, the actual odds of us truly being "alone" in the universe are infinitesimally small, which leads to the inevitable question of "where are they?"


one of my favorite series about this was Ian Douglas's galactic marines.

    






so it is still stupid . Gene Rodenbery had it right when he created Star Trek and that was grounded on exploring the solar system meeting alien races and learning about them . Bioware needs to go back to the fantasy realm of rpg video games. stay the hell away from Sci Fi.

[Elite Midget]

To save the galaxy you must do the Reapers job for them.

It makes sense, I'm sure... Maybe.

[humes spork]

In science fiction it goes back all the way to the 60s to at least Ray Kurzweil. It's kind of a running theme of transhumanist sci-fi and has been for decades.

Want to see a piece of fiction that despite being boring as all get out but does it quite well and is particularly relevant to ME3 (you can see its footprints all over the ending), check out Star Trek the Motionless Picture.

Anyhow, relevant to ME3 it's a lazy ass pull, because Bioware didn't feel like coding a wildly divergent ending that really did all the previous choices made justice, and didn't want to "trivialize the Reaper threat" any more than they already had by making them actually beaten conventionally by organics.

[GDK]

Sparatus wrote...

To be fair, this stuff was talked about in Mass Effect when you discussed the geth.

They sort of abandoned it in Mass Effect 2 for the Dark Energy thing.

Now they bounced back to it in Mass Effect 3.

I agree with you and everyone else who has said on this thread that there has been mention of AI in past games. Some even say it was a major point of ME1, and that is fair. 

What I'm saying is I just don't feel that it was a big enough part. Everything with AI felt like it was going on in far background because we had to think about the fates of different races and species as Reapers approached. It seemed far too minor of a plotpoint to make it this central. And yes, I've played both the games, countless times.

But it's just my opinion.

[Aesieru]

GDK wrote...

Sparatus wrote...

To be fair, this stuff was talked about in Mass Effect when you discussed the geth.

They sort of abandoned it in Mass Effect 2 for the Dark Energy thing.

Now they bounced back to it in Mass Effect 3.

I agree with you and everyone else who has said on this thread that there has been mention of AI in past games. Some even say it was a major point of ME1, and that is fair. 

What I'm saying is I just don't feel that it was a big enough part. Everything with AI felt like it was going on in far background because we had to think about the fates of different races and species as Reapers approached. It seemed far too minor of a plotpoint to make it this central. And yes, I've played both the games, countless times.

But it's just my opinion.

I think they would have risked revealing the plot too soon if they made it a major part, plus Saren had Shephards focus most of the game.

We did see the VI Virus and what that led to, we saw Overlord and what a potential AI virus would do, and we saw many news excerpts relating to similar things.

[humes spork]

Sparatus wrote...

To be fair, this stuff was talked about in Mass Effect when you discussed the geth.

They sort of abandoned it in Mass Effect 2 for the Dark Energy thing.

Now they bounced back to it in Mass Effect 3.

To be fair, the dark energy thing really only came into play in one recruitment mission, and was hardly discussed, allusioned to, foreshadowed or mentioned else in the game. If it was really going to be a major theme of ME3 it would have been brought more to the forefront than that. The Leviathan of Dis got just about as much note over the course of the trilogy, and the superweapon that brought down the derelict Reaper more.

The conflict between organics and synthetics, and the conflict between artificial and real intelligence, has been a running theme that permeated just about every aspect of the entire trilogy.

[TekFanX]

And see, how dark it turned out, that AI's advanced so far that they have emotions. So far that they almost behave like organics.

The geth killed their creators...
...who tried to extinguish them when they noticed they became more than tools?

Then, the synthetic race who may can build space-ships faster than anyone else and larger than any other race does by regulations...
...just stays for itself to let the other races live in peace?

And then EDI! This synthetic, malicious thing in a humanoid body who...
...admires the beautiful landscape and refuses to use the most efficient way of communication, just to help the organics?

After putting so much effort in showing the geth-race and EDI as beings, capable of coexistence and even emotions, I don't know how BioWare could expect to present such a reason for the reapers without someone saying "Huh? You're sure about that? These reaper-creator-race must have been some philosophic idiots.".

[Elios]

TekFanX wrote...

And see, how dark it turned out, that AI's advanced so far that they have emotions. So far that they almost behave like organics.

The geth killed their creators...
...who tried to extinguish them when they noticed they became more than tools?

Then, the synthetic race who may can build space-ships faster than anyone else and larger than any other race does by regulations...
...just stays for itself to let the other races live in peace?

And then EDI! This synthetic, malicious thing in a humanoid body who...
...admires the beautiful landscape and refuses to use the most efficient way of communication, just to help the organics?

After putting so much effort in showing the geth-race and EDI as beings, capable of coexistence and even emotions, I don't know how BioWare could expect to present such a reason for the reapers without someone saying "Huh? You're sure about that? These reaper-creator-race must have been some philosophic idiots.".

OR
the Reapers are a Weakly Godlike Intelligence that we will never be able to comprehend
they even say them selves they FAR more advanced then any thing we could ever think of
as sacks of meat we just cant rap our tiny brains around it

just to get an idea one Reaper AI would have the intelligence of mutliple time that ALL of the Galaxy EVER... COMBINED 
http://www.kurzweila.../kinds-of-minds

http://www.asimovs.com/_issue_0409/elector.shtml
Weakly Godlike Intelligence
A weakly godlike intelligence is not a supernatural agency, but the product of a highly advanced society that  learned how to artificially create souls [late twentieth century: software] and translate human minds into souls and vice versa. [Core concepts: human beings all have souls. Souls are software objects. Software is not immortal.]

Modifié par Elios, 03 mars 2012 - 04:21 .

[Aesieru]

TekFanX wrote...

And see, how dark it turned out, that AI's advanced so far that they have emotions. So far that they almost behave like organics.

The geth killed their creators...
...who tried to extinguish them when they noticed they became more than tools?

Then, the synthetic race who may can build space-ships faster than anyone else and larger than any other race does by regulations...
...just stays for itself to let the other races live in peace?

And then EDI! This synthetic, malicious thing in a humanoid body who...
...admires the beautiful landscape and refuses to use the most efficient way of communication, just to help the organics?

After putting so much effort in showing the geth-race and EDI as beings, capable of coexistence and even emotions, I don't know how BioWare could expect to present such a reason for the reapers without someone saying "Huh? You're sure about that? These reaper-creator-race must have been some philosophic idiots.".

And what happens 10000 years later or 1000?

Do they just sit there doing nothing but harvesting every resource they come across save a few for repairs?

They keep expanding.

Also, there's a greater threat right now that keeps EDI from going all crazy I am the Vanguard of your destruction. When that threat is no longer there EDI isn't just going to postulate to herself for the next millenium, things will happen.

The Geth aren't just sitting there, they are more preparing their forces, expanding, and trying to find a way to bridge the gap between them and independent thinking. When they do...