I'm really exhausted so I'm just going to give a short-and-sweet post here, and post my blog's contents as I feel it covers the bases on what should be done IMO.
Here's the link, but it's also at the bottom of the page:
http://social.biowar...83/blog/209894/Fast Jimmy wrote...
Believe it or not, programming organic AI is one of the hardest things to do. Think of the Tactics screen, but with over 100 options you'd need to sift through for each enemy or character, rather than a dozen. Throw in the fact that you also have to juggle processing speed for things like graphics, sound, combat animations, health and other statistics, etc., and you have to make something that is relatively simple and low on resource consumption, given the fact that you can have twenty or so enemies on the screen.
Hmm.... I see.
I'm not savvy to how this stuff gets implemented, so I guess being as easy as "Make lots of code for one game, reuse code in sequel while adding more code" is out of the question.
Also consider that if you make AI TOO good, it butchers even the best players with ease. You have to find a perfect balance between being mindless robots and essentially giving the computer cheat codes to overcome every tactic you throw at it.
While I wouldn't mind the AI being really good, all I really want is that balance to be struck. Mostly, it's stuff I detailed on other threads in the past.
1) S&S Warriors form a protective phalanx when instructed by their commander class allies
2) S&S Warriors raise shields into the air if we use Hail of Arrows and take reduced damage as a result, if they would even take damage at all.
3) Partially AI based methinks, but the enemies need to have the same animations and abilities we use. Or at least, part of them. I think I said this on page 2.
Stuff like that.
So I don't begrudge developers when it isn't perfect. What I do not like is when they can't seem to find that balance, so they give enemies insanely huge health pools or insta-kill moves to ramp up difficulty, which we saw in DA2. The AI change going from Casual to Normal to Nightmare was barely noticeable, but the health bars and the resistances were. To me, that's an AI/design cop out.
If I was working on the gameplay, I'd do a few things to make things better:
1) The aforementioned three things I mentioned above
2) Use the Final Fantasy mechanic -- which is present in other games I'm sure, but FF is where it's most known for me -- where the PC's party's health/mana/stamina automatically upgrades upon leveling up. But the player could still invest points in Con/Willpower if he/she wanted, though the points gained from that investment would be more then 5 points each.
I don't think good enemy AI really wins you all that many more sales. Not for the difficulty it can be getting it actually good. Just avoiding it being too obviously awful is all that you actually need to do.
To an extent, it might even be a negative. People want to feel like they're good, if the AI is running rings round them they won't feel like that. And if you're struggling on this one boss, exploiting a bit of artificial stupidity can get you past.
I think it could help to garner sales if you want to appeal to a more action-oriented crowd. But as I said earlier in the thread, gameplay shouldn't come at the expense of the story.
And personally speaking, I don't feel good when enemy AI is so god-awful and mindless like DAII. It actually makes me not want to do the combat.
I'm not asking for it to be incredibly challenging -- even if I'd personally like that -- but it shouldn't be artificial stupidity. It just needs to look.... well... like actual intelligence.
Now if you've got friendly AI acting stupid, that's a major issue.
Indeed, that was what I said.
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I'm going to copy-and-paste what I wrote in my blog. It's nothing special, but I think it pertains to the discussion, even if my opinions on the combat have changed from "I love it" to "I hate it"
Here goes:
So, I've been replaying DAII with my Human Noble import. As much as I dislike how the story was handled, I enjoy the combat. However, I am not saying it's perfect as is. It isn't. I play on the PS3, which is a blessing really. It gives me access to the radial menu, which allows me to look closely at the animations of the attacks and see whether or not they actually look like what the eye sees. I'm going to talk about the animations, but that's only a small part of what this blog entry shall talk about. I'll separate it into various portions: Animations, Tactics, Waves.
Feel free to ask me about anything else if it relates, and I'll post a comment at the bottom and add it to this entry. Now onto animations! Bear in mind I'm going to go into detail about the basic animations and the unrealistic spell/talent animations for each class or just those that I'd like to see minor improvements made for:
SECTION 2: TACTICSSo now we're going to talk about enemy tactics. It's my belief that enemies need to use the new basic attack animations. At the very least the enemies that aren't mages should use the first 3 from each class, except the Rogues which should use all of the DW animations and all of the CQC Archer animations. Mages should use the first, fourth, and final animations.
Now, one of the things that the DA series is sorely lacking in (for me and for other people) are truly tactical fights. This should be improved on in the future. It's not enough to have the enemies just use the same animations or even some of the same spells/talents. They should have their own unique tactics where they then proceed to use the animations/talents.
Example: imagine this:
* A commander type enemy
* 30 sword and shield type enemies
* 10 Archer type enemies
* 3 mage type enemies
You begin to attack the commander, but he then orders all of his sword and shield cohorts to form a phalanx. The archers and mages then get behind the S&S people. The enemies are now immune to damage, and the archers and mages are using various attacks/spells (Hail of Arrows, Bursting Arrow, Firestorm, Heal, Aid Allies, etc.). The Warriors are using Warrior specific attacks (Taunt, Assault, Shield Bash, etc.)
You would then have to use an attack that dealt sufficient knockback to begin to break the phalanx up, but the enemies would still attack until they were knocked back at least twice. If the waves use the same animations and talents we use -- along with their own unique tactics -- it adds a unique element to the battles. However, I am by no means saying that waves should always be used. Only when they make sense (Bloodragers, Followers of She, Templars, Mages, Qunari, and Darkspawn to name some examples.)
Though there is the problem of the tactics becoming predictable. Whether something could be done about that I don't know.
I'd like to address demons and Abominations now. I think they need to begin to be a real challenge, depending on the level of the demon/abomination.
Rage Demons should use more Fire attacks. I say have them use Elemental Weapons, Fireball, and Firestorm. Rage Abominations should do these things along with their mindless drunkard style fighting because it's believable there. I'd also like to see the Abomination maybe pick up the enemy and throw them across the field in anger (this is actually something I wish Corypheus did in Legacy, but maybe when we see him again he'll do this)
Hunger Demons should use some more advanced spells. I'd like to see them use some Entropic spells along with abilities from the Elemental and Primal trees. They should also have an ability that drains the health of a character and replenishes their own.
Hunger Abominations should do all of these things as well as maybe eat a companion whole, for two reasons:
1) OM NOM NOM
2) It would add a new tactic if you lose one of your companions because he's been eaten whole (though he would return when the Abomination is defeated).
Sloth Demons and Abominations should also use Entropic spells, but they should also begin to use blood magic spells and some spells from the other trees. They should also make your companions fall asleep on the battlefield (which was in the Entropy tree) and then prey on that.
Desire Demons and Pride Demons should use the most advanced spells from each tree and use their own unique tactics with those trees. I'd also like to see the Desire Demons and Pride Demons use different attacks when they multiply themselves. In Legacy, all they did was the same attack, and they didn't even attack sometimes! Each one should use stuff like Firestorm, Tempest, Stonefist, etc when they multiply
I think I've made my point.
SECTION 3: WAVESSo this was a big thing for people. Waves and waves of enemies. It wasn't even that there were so many enemies that irked people. It was that the fights were basically the same thing because the enemies were incredibly mindless.
Well I believe that waves can add to the level of tactics needed for a fight. However, they should only be used where they make sense (see the final sentence in Section 2).
Legacy has shown us that waves can indeed be used in a great way tactically, if done right. IMO though, it wasn't done enough, but I'm a hard gamer to please.
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So yea, that's what I have to say about this. Sorry about the shameless self-promotion, but I'm too tired to really write an original post that would say the same exact things basically.
Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 06 mars 2012 - 05:32 .
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