410 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

I don't think the number of enemies necessarily effects the tactical complexity much.

Fighting a single BG2 mage could be a tactical challenge. Though less so if you can cast Insect Plague

[Reidbynature]

Can't say I outright hate DA2. It was however severely disappointing to me after playing Origins and being a fan of that. I've only come onto the DA2 boards now and again to offer criticism that I think is valid in the hopes that they may be addressed for a possible DA3 (which would be a key factor on whether I choose to stay with the series or not).

I don't believe that I personally will have much of an effect on Bioware's decision making, but if they see a great number of fans calling for certain changes and improvements then just maybe they'll take that into consideration.

[PinkDiamondstl]

DA2 was a good game . People are stupid flat out STUPID to dislike this game . True gamers understand DA2 to be as short as it was.

[JeeWeeJ]

Dont feed the troll people....

[PinkDiamondstl]

 
I'll just leave this here...

[Reidbynature]

JeeWeeJ wrote...

Dont feed the troll people....

You mean PinkDiamondstl, right?

[JeeWeeJ]

Reidbynature wrote...

JeeWeeJ wrote...

Dont feed the troll people....

You mean PinkDiamondstl, right?

I do, sorry if that wasn't clear

[Fast Jimmy]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

DA2 was a good game . People are stupid flat out STUPID to dislike this game . True gamers understand DA2 to be as short as it was.

I must not be a true gamer!

And here I thought 25 years of gaming, the vast majority of which have been RPGs, would have qualified me... dang it!

[Reidbynature]

JeeWeeJ wrote...

Reidbynature wrote...

JeeWeeJ wrote...

Dont feed the troll people....

You mean PinkDiamondstl, right?

I do, sorry if that wasn't clear

Yeah, it's no problem.  Thanks for clearing that up.

[Stoomkal]

I haven't posted here in about nine months... but it is worth it just to note how much I despise DA2.

You could not find a bigger Origins fan than me, yet DA2 remains incompleted... I just cannot be bothered through such a looooong and pointless game.

Three acts of nothing changing but more and more and more *pointless* dialogue - and in the end, the same thing happens no matter what... a "binary" ending that actually changes little.

Who needs to save the world when you can hang around the same boring town and have mother issues?

Seriously *mother* issues?

That is just what I missed from LotR... I so wish Aragorn could have had a bedwetting problem...the whole family thing was just risible.

And, with my dialogue options reduced to "Laugh - Hurt- Fart" I was completely bored within five seconds...

But that is okay, they did not even bother to write item descriptions, or let my wizard use a sword...

I cannot believe it was designed thinking anybody would actually enjoy it.

It seems that the team got their wish - after complaining soooooo hard that they did not want to write the story of the warden anymore, they got their wish and pretty much killed the franchise.

Any further work on this series will only serve to undermine a good original.

[Lynata]

Stoomkal wrote...
Who needs to save the world when you can hang around the same boring town and have mother issues?
Seriously *mother* issues?

This is actually one bit I liked a lot about DA2. The scale. For once you're not a special snowflake superhero who gets to save the world, but actually "just" a guy/gal getting soaked into a conflict he/she didn't seek. The stuff with your brother/sister and your mother was quite novel, and above all it was personal. The appearance of that ghost really moved me. Kudos to the writers.

Nothing against the Warden - I loved DA:O, and love it way more than DA2 - yet had it not been for the companions and their unique interferences with the plot, it'd have quickly degraded into a very simplistic "go there and kill everything" story. I appreciate DA2 for actually showing the player character leads a life - and isn't just a cardboard-cutout Rambo who exists only for the fight. Made everything seem much more complex and real.

So, all in all it was a nice change from the usual "you are the bestest, you are the hero, the whole world needs to look up to you!!1" with the kind of dull epicness you'd otherwise only get out of a Michael Bay movie or a Space Marine novel - some people love that stuff, and occasionally I do too, but these days I often just feel "oversatuated" by various movies' or games' attempt to "one-up" each other in big explosions and battles at the expense of their characters' depth.
It's almost funny, given how the game mechanics and the visuals of the title went into a totally different direction (cue that infamous "awesome button" quote) there.

Of course, tastes are different. But personally, this aspect of writing is one of the few things in DA2 where I had nothing to criticize.

Modifié par Lynata, 07 mars 2012 - 10:23 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Lynata wrote...

This is actually one bit I liked a lot about DA2. The scale. For once you're not a special snowflake superhero who gets to save the world, but actually "just" a guy/gal getting soaked into a conflict he/she didn't seek.

This could have been really good.  If only there'd been any aspect of the game that let us control Hawke as we saw fit.

I love that Hawke wasn't the chosen one.  I love that there's no obvious direction to the plot for most of the game.  I love the overall design of DA2's core narrative.

I just wish it had been in a better game.

[NWNMarc]

Lynata wrote...

some people love that stuff, and occasionally I do too, but these days I often just feel "oversatuated" by various movies' or games' attempt to "one-up" each other in big explosions and battles at the expense of their characters' depth.

Sounds like you're ready to move up to literature! You might try The Once and Future King. Yeah, yeah, King Arthur's a snowflake, but at least he's not a space marine.

[ScotGaymer]

I too liked Hawke and the potential Hawke and his/her family had but the problem like so many things with Dragon Age "2" is that the "small focus" was very poorly implemented.

As someone else pointed out, Kirkwall is a frighteningly boring and static city. It doesn't feel like a living breathing city in the way that Denerim, or Amaranthine did. It's bland, brown, dull, and unchanging.

So much of the game is supposed to hinge on Hawke loving his/her family; the overall goal for Hawke (saying the game has no immediate goal or direction is untrue) is to protect, care for, and provide for his family. But unfortunately we are never given a reason to actually give a crap about said family - all 5 Hawke-Amell's (Leandra, Gamlen, Carver, Bethany, and Charade) are given nearly zero character development and then the game turns round and expects us to care.
And we do not care, not one bit. Leandra has one thing to say before she dies really, and thats "Holy Political Marriages Batman!" to Hawke.
The siblings as companions are useless and overshadowed by less than mid way thru Act 1, and as characters Bethany is just boring, and Carver is plain irritating; when the first one dies you are given no time to actually know them so their death comes off as pointless and kind of boring - when the second one dies or leaves there has been so little character development for them that you kind of just go "eh, so? Fenris/Anders are better companions. Bye Sibling!"
Charade had the potential to be an interesting character, but was pretty much limited to saying to the world "My Big Cousins the Scary Champion of Kirkwall, Ha Ha!"
And Gamlen, he had the most character development but unfortunately most of it was turning him into an even bigger JerkAss than Carver. *sigh* Out of all the family Gamlen had the most potential, the potential to explore a deeply flawed and conflicted yet interesting character; but the game did not achieve that with him.

The companions aren't much better if we are completely honest, they are all Flanderized characters seriously.
Aveline is the epitome of Preachy, Controlling Mother/Sister type.
Isabela is the Ethical Sl*t trope. Seriously. The Sl*tty Pirate Wench with a heart of gold. *eyeroll*
Fenris is a character Bioware were aiming to create as The Stoic and instead just made him Anime Emo Elf.
Anders is the very definition of Tragic Hero, which wouldn't be so bad if it didn't completely throw out his established personality in Awakening.
Merrill. They were going for naive, perhaps a little foolish. And instead created the Ultimate Moron from Moron Mountain. *facepalm*
Varric, while a generally awesome character, even he is a flanderized trope. Seriously. They went for The Badass; and The Badass is what we got. As the trope page says, Varric is The Rule of Cool personified (note I despise the Rule of Cool).
And finally Sebastian is quite simply an afterthought who's entire persona is based around him being religious. He is the Token Religious Teammate.
Please note while I generally like all of the characters (except for Merrill) I find their character development to be lacking, which results in them feeling flanderized. At least to me.

And then beyond the Family, or the Companions we have several "important" characters that again also have very little development.
The Viscount.
His Son.
The Steward.
Grand Cleric Elthina.
Marethari.
Flemeth.
Meeran.
Athenril.
Cullen.
Thrask.
First Enchanter Orsino.
Knight Commander Meredith.
Bartrand.
They are all characters that are important in that they impact the story fairly significantly; but we are never really shown the why or the how. The only NPC that is developed fairly decently, and comes off as a proper Antagonist is The Arishok; seriously the way Act 1 and 2 play, and the interactions Hawke has with the Qunari and with The Arishok it feels like he is going to be the End Boss. And instead we get the lame ass Act 3 ending thrust upon us.

It's all down to the implementation. I reckon the writing team must have written loads more dialogue and story for the game but crap loads of it was cut or never included due to time constraints; and the Dev Team had to make strategic choices at what to implement and did a pretty poor job of it.

The game itself builds up to what feels like the ending, to the critical point mid way thru to the end of Act 2, which let's face it is FAR too early for the ending to happen. So when you hit Act 3 everything feels like its been tacked on to pad the game out to an acceptable length; especially since the ending sucks so hard.
Seriously, its terrible ending. Both from a writing and implementation standpoint.
It renders EVERYTHING that the player did prior completely pointless, and leaves you feeling a bit like "why did I bother playing this game then?"
I seriously can not criticise the ending more. It's actually worse than the ending of Fallout 3, and worse than the Broken Steel expansion which supposedly fixed said terrible ending of F3. And considering writing is probably Bethesda's poorest area, when you do worse than them then you know you have done a real bad job. IMO.

I know this post comes off as fairly negative (or a lot negative), so I would like to assure everyone I do LIKE Dragon Age "2". I just feel that it has its flaws, and doesn't yet deserve the title of Sequel. I am still holding out hope for a content expansion.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 07 mars 2012 - 11:35 .

[Justin2k]

Sadly it was one of the worst gaming experiences I've had on the 360 since purchase and I'll explain roughly why from what I can remember.

- DA:O was so good that i didn't play DA2 demo, avoided all spoilers/reviews and was really hyped up for it (this is my fault) expecting it to be similar, or just as good as the first which it wasn't.

- All of Sebastians achievements glitched for me and i didn't realise i wasn't getting them until it was too late.

- The guy who i can't even remember his name, the one in white, went from being a best friend to hating me simply because i didn't want a gay relationship.

- There were only like 4-5 maps in the entire game reused over and over.

- Several experiences with bugs.

- I can only remember about 3 of the characters thats how memorable they were.  I played DA:O on release and i can name Morrigan, Alistair, Leliana, Warden, Sten, that cool thief guy who was an ex member of the crows but who's name escapes me right now and the sexual innuendo dwarf who's name escapes me, the old lady chantry member and the dog.  Which I think is most of them.  I played DA2 only last year and I remember Isabella, Hawke, Bethany, Merrill and the name Varrick rings a bell but I can't remember if thats the dwarf or the guy with the big sword.  I also remember Hawke having a brother but thats about it.  It was just a worse cast, story and setting.

- Respawning enemies and dumbed down combat.

Overall I just really didn't enjoy it at all.  If it was a new franchise, i'd just have been like 5/10 won't be buying that again.  Because it was Dragon Age I was just really really let down tbh.  It was just a bad game.  Hoping ME3 is better when i get it on Friday.

Modifié par Justin2k, 07 mars 2012 - 11:38 .

[ScotGaymer]

Justin2k wrote...


- The guy who i can't even remember his name, the one in white, went from being a best friend to hating me simply because i didn't want a gay relationship.

This. This right here is completely wrong.

An appalling piece of misinformation, that I would kindly ask you to never repeat again. Seriously.

One: He only hits on you if you are super super super nice to him ALL the time, and he thinks mistakenly that you might like him.
Two: By the point that he hits on you you are usually on the higher end of the "Friendship" meter, you may even have already earned his Friendship talent (which would effectively lock you into the Friendship path with him), so that the Rivalry point gain is negligable.
Three: He reacts a little pissed off and hurt. He lashes out verbally because thats the type of person he is. In a real life situation where you were constantly really super nice, going out of your way to be nice, to someone it is perfectly legitimate for them to think you fancy them and to be hurt/upset by your rejection.
Four: I still strongly believe that the middle "broken heart" response to that line is a bug because choosing it Hawke doesn't come off a douchebag, Ander's doesn't get all butthurt, and you do not gain any Rivalry points.
Five: I believe also that you fundamentally misunderstand what Rivalry is at a very basic level, and that is NOT the fault of the game or the developers - it is instead a Comprehension problem on your part.

I am sorry there are a lot of things you can criticise Anders, the writing, dialogue, and characterisation of Anders for; but honestly this is NOT one of them.

It is okay for you to dislike something but if you can't correctly and adequately explain your reasons; then just stick to saying you didn't like this situation, or that piece of dialogue, or whatever. Don't spread misinformation based on your own erroneous assumptions and misconceptions.

EDIT:
Sorry if I am coming off a little hostile about it but honestly it really annoys me when DA2 "haters" and some assorted homophobes come into the forums and spew vitrol about the game, and about Anders being one of "Teh Gheys!" and using that very line/situation as "proof" of their arguements and using the same flawed reasoning/assumptions that you have.

It's infuriating.

Sorry but IMO, that line and situation was one of the things that definately belong in DA2 Got Right column, for the most part anyway.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 07 mars 2012 - 11:50 .

[Fast Jimmy]

If Bioware had made Kirkwall as alive as an Assassin's Creed city, or allowed changes to happen between the Acts depending on your choice (or, heck, anything changed AT ALL) it could have been cool to have the game in one city.

But they didn't. Which made the whole thing seem trite.

And I guess that's my feeling on the game in general - trite. I don't begrudge many of the "changes" made between DAO and DA2, but the changes were done just to be changes, not because they had a good plan of how to implement them well.

Faster combat? Okay, we got it. Voiced actor with three canned responses? Sweet, check. Companions that represent things that appeal to teenage fanboys (Final Fantasy, Angst-filled Brooding Guy, Big Boobs and Ditz... We'll make the most realisitc companions, Aveline and Varric, non-romanceable... because who wants to romance characters who aren't cookie cutter molds?) Roger, we are a go to launch the game!

Dragon Age Origins showed the most promise of any RPG game I've played in over a decade. And in 18 short months, its reputation was shattered and wasted. I understand not everyone hates it. And I understand a lot of people love it. But it is not anywhere near the potential that Origins reached out for, and that many of us were hoping DA2 would extend out into.

[TEWR]

Wulfram wrote...

I don't think the number of enemies necessarily effects the tactical complexity much.

I disagree. The more enemies that fight with the same level of consistency as well as using a unique set of tactics means that the fights will be harder on some scale.

Just look at Ser Cauthrien as an example of what is a tactical fight. At least, as tactical as DAO was for me.

One of my problems with DAO on my first run through -- made even worse in DAII -- was that each enemy's attack pattern became predictable to me, and thus there was no sense of tactical complexity, due in part to only facing at most 12 enemies at a time.

Fighting a single BG2 mage could be a tactical challenge. Though less so if you can cast Insect Plague

Never played the BG series, alas.

Fast Jimmy wrote...

If Bioware had made Kirkwall as alive as an Assassin's Creed city, or allowed changes to happen between the Acts depending on your choice (or, heck, anything changed AT ALL) it could have been cool to have the game in one city.

But they didn't. Which made the whole thing seem trite.

Agreed. It's been one of my core complaints -- basically starting off with "Bioware should've done..." or "What I would've done is..."

Faster combat? Okay, we got it. Voiced actor with three canned responses? Sweet, check. Companions that represent things that appeal to teenage fanboys (Final Fantasy, Angst-filled Brooding Guy, Big Boobs and Ditz... We'll make the most realisitc companions, Aveline and Varric, non-romanceable... because who wants to romance characters who aren't cookie cutter molds?) Roger, we are a go to launch the game!

*cat hiss*

You called Merrill a ditz! You must pay for this heresy!

Jokes aside, I don't understand how Fenris can be called Final Fantasy.

And Merrill's not really ditzy. Inexperienced and maybe slightly clueless in the first Act, but afterwards she matures and from how I see it, messes with peoples' heads by continuing to act "clueless" because that's how other people see her now.

She enjoys messing with their heads. She's evil like that.

But I don't want to turn this into a Merrill thread. All I really want to know is how Fenris can be called something akin to Final Fantasy.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 08 mars 2012 - 12:33 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Dragon Age Origins showed the most promise of any RPG game I've played in over a decade.

THIS.

Despite its compromises to appeal to a broader and more modern audience, DAO was still a brilliant game.

But DA2 is the first post-BG BioWare game I have failed to complete.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 08 mars 2012 - 12:30 .

[Das Tentakel]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

If Bioware had made Kirkwall as alive as an Assassin's Creed city, or allowed changes to happen between the Acts depending on your choice (or, heck, anything changed AT ALL) it could have been cool to have the game in one city.

But they didn't. Which made the whole thing seem trite.

Now, to be honest, Kirkwall is very much a Biowarian city (at least since they went 3D). Denerim, Orzammar, Lothering, the Citadel in Mass Effect, they are all pretty static places.
I found them all rather tedious and dull. And in DA2 they did try some things to 'liven things up', with NPC's hailing Avelline or spontaneous short discussions between companion NPC's and other NPC's.

Visually, of course, Kirkwall had some atrocious low-poly NPC's and a very simple, repetitive, homogenous 'style', which made it feel even more unnatural than other Bioware 'cities'. But what it mostly did, for me, was draw attention to what was already a traditional Biowarian weak point.

Just for comparison, I dipped into Two Worlds II, an RPG whose cities were clearly influenced by Assassin's Creed, by loading some old saves. I visited Hatmandor and New Ashos again, the two main cities in the game, and I almost cried when I returned to my DA2 playthough .
Two Worlds II is hardly the greatest RPG evar (though a major improvement on the first game, and one that gives me optimism for part III, though the writing and voice acting, ugh!), but its cities are light years ahead of Bioware's. And that should, considering Bioware's greater experience and resources, NOT be the case:(

[Fast Jimmy]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

 All I really want to know is how Fenris can be called something akin to Final Fantasy.

I mean... blonde or platinum/silver... that's the only difference I see. 

Also, you should check out Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 at some point. You can find them online for ultra cheap (if not free somewhere) and they are worth a romp. It will be stifling at first, after this generation of flashy graphics and action combat, but it stands the test of time like you wouldn't believe. And I'd suggest also picking up Fallout 1 and 2, if you feel like enjoynig some old school RPG gold. I just finished my Fallout 2 playthrough again this weekend and it was like playing for the first time, all over.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 08 mars 2012 - 02:25 .

[TEWR]

I mean... blonde or platinum/silver... that's the only difference I see.

I don't see it.

Cloud is wielding a sword which is larger than any of the greatswords we see in the DA series. Fenris on the other hand is wielding a normal greatsword, and greatswords aren't as heavy as people on here would like to believe.

This is how heavy a greatsword is when swinging, and the Greatsword animations are roughly the same speed. The only problem is that somehow, the first four animations don't properly look like the 2H Warrior is using both hands, but on examination I saw this was he intent of the devs. I could see the second hand almost on the hilt. Shame that.

The speed's only an issue if you use haste or equip a rune/item that increases attack speed. But then, that's the player's choice and it can't be blamed on the game.

Hair style? Radically different, and Fenris' is actually a normal hairstyle. One I've currently got naturally. The only thing that might be anime is that the hair begins to covers the eye, but that's something that I've seen plenty of times in the real world on people that haven't watched anime.

Hair color? While some may dislike Fenris' hair color, it's insufficient to call him anime. The PC can have the same color hair, as can other NPCs.

The armor? It's sufficient for someone that was once a slave -- he does have a metal plate on the chest area -- but I do acknowledge that the continued use of it over the years and not swapping out for something better suited for combat is a problem that strains credulity. It's not so much that it isn't combat appropriate for me. Just that it's not as combat appropriate as you would think a free man would be wearing.

I dunno. Chances are that I may have just now gone on a long tirade that had absolutely nothing to do with how he's deemed "anime" by people. If so, could you elaborate on what it is you actually see that makes him anime? Because I don't want to keep jumping the gun and assuming things that might not be true.

Suffice to say I don't equate anything about Fenris with that of anime.

Also, you should check out Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 at some point. You can find them online for ultra cheap (if not free somewhere) and they are worth a romp. It will be stifling at first, after this generation of flashy graphics and action combat, but it stands the test of time like you wouldn't believe. And I'd suggest also picking up Fallout 1 and 2, if you feel like enjoynig some old school RPG gold. I just finished my Fallout 2 playthrough again this weekend and it was like playing for the first time, all over.

I might check out the BG series at some point when I get the money, but something about Fallout 3 made it not one of my favorite series. I've played Fallout 3 and there was something about it that just didn't strike me as my type of game.

It's certainly not a bad game or even a bad series. But there was just something that made me stop and say "I don't think this is for me."

[Dr. Doctor]

I really liked DA2's characters, having characters with different opinions that you could talk to even if you disagreed with them was a welcome change from DAO's approval/disapproval system.

I liked the story, the framed narrative was a pretty neat mechanic but I was sort of expecting more out of the concept of having Varric being an unreliable narrator. Also while I like that the party's interaction with Hawke doesn't hinge much on their personal histories, I would have liked to know a little more about them without reading their codex entry.

The real downer for me at least comes from the gameplay department. I didn't really care for the fact that every fight had enemies drop in from the ceiling, and the combat just didn't click with me. Also while I understand that the plot was supposed to center around Kirkwall, the city never really felt really "alive" to me.

Going and playing Skyrim was a different experience. The world is expansive and the gameplay is fun, but the characters fall flat. Companions pretty much serve as pack mules and meat shields. If they could tap Bethesda's ability to create worlds and the DA team's writing talent we could have one awesome RPG on our hands.

[Das Tentakel]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I mean... blonde or platinum/silver... that's the only difference I see.

I don't see it.

Cloud is wielding a sword which is larger than any of the greatswords we see in the DA series. Fenris on the other hand is wielding a normal greatsword, and greatswords aren't as heavy as people on here would like to believe.

To be honest, I do see the resemblance, but Fenris is somewhat intermediate between Cloud and more typical 'western' characters. As for the swords, I won't talk about the length (hey, a notorious pirate chief from my country's history, 'Grutte Pier' - Pier Gerlofs Donia - is supposed to have handled a blade 2.15 metres long) but they are too big. Both the blade and the grip are too wide, in real-world terms those swords would be far too heavy.

If Fenris is not based on JRPG stereotypes, then I think he sort of slipped through quality control, because way too many people see the similarity. That is something you want to avoid, unless you intend it as a homage.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
I might check out the BG series at some point when I get the money, but something about Fallout 3 made it not one of my favorite series. I've played Fallout 3 and there was something about it that just didn't strike me as my type of game.

It's certainly not a bad game or even a bad series. But there was just something that made me stop and say "I don't think this is for me."

The best place to get Baldur's Gate I and II is Good Old Games, as their version has some patches, modifications etc. applied that prevents it from crashing under Vista and Windows 7 (I know from personal experience ). Baldur's Gate is usually on sale a couple of times each year.
One warning, though. They don't look too good on a big monitor, especially the first game. I play them on my laptop or my netbook, not my desktop and for good reason.

As for Fallout I and II, they're on GOG too. They are also different from Fallout III in terms of gameplay. If it's the setting you don't like they are not for you, but if it's the gameplay you might give it a try. I'd do Baldur's Gate first, though.

Now returning to our regular programme...

[Mr Fixit]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I might check out the BG series at some point when I get the money, but something about Fallout 3 made it not one of my favorite series. I've played Fallout 3 and there was something about it that just didn't strike me as my type of game.

Believe me when I say that Fallout 3 is quite different from the first two games. The thing that binds them is the post-apocaliptic wasteland setting (and it's not even the *same* post-apocaliptic setting), but the games themselves play pretty differently. Perspective, writing, even the feel...

Das Tentakel wrote...

Baldur's Gate is usually on sale a couple of times each year.
One warning, though. They don't look too good on a big monitor, especially the first game. I play them on my laptop or my netbook, not my desktop and for good reason.

Actually, there's a fantastic array (and I really mean that, they're INDISPENSABLE!) of mods for Baldur's Gate series and they improve the experience greatly. Install easytutu, mods like Sword Coast Stratagems, etc. And, pertaining to this discussion, there's a widescreen mod that lets you play the game at very high resolutions, and it looks really good. It even enhances the experience in other ways because it enlarges the observable space, which I always found a bit small in the vanilla game.

Modifié par Mr Fixit, 08 mars 2012 - 10:43 .