410 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Five: I believe also that you fundamentally misunderstand what Rivalry is at a very basic level, and that is NOT the fault of the game or the developers - it is instead a Comprehension problem on your part.

No, people misunderstanding what Friendship and Rivalry are is very much the fault of the game and the developers, because they consistently failed to stick to what it was supposed to mean. 

It's supposed to be about whether you agree on a major issue - or a few major issues, though this tends to create problems of it's own - but half the time it is used as straight Approval/Disapproval.  As indeed it is in the Anders flirting case - you get rivalry because he's upset, and it has nothing to do with your opinion on mages.

Friendship/Rivalry was perhaps the best innovation of DA2, but it's implementation was a mess.  And if the developers can't consistently seperate Rivalry from Disapproval, you can't complain that some players tend to end up treating it as such

[TEWR]

To be honest, I do see the resemblance, but Fenris is somewhat intermediate between Cloud and more typical 'western' characters. As for the swords, I won't talk about the length (hey, a notorious pirate chief from my country's history, 'Grutte Pier' - Pier Gerlofs Donia - is supposed to have handled a blade 2.15 metres long) but they are too big. Both the blade and the grip are too wide, in real-world terms those swords would be far too heavy.

If Fenris is not based on JRPG stereotypes, then I think he sort of slipped through quality control, because way too many people see the similarity. That is something you want to avoid, unless you intend it as a homage.

Indeed the blade width is too big -- though honestly, I'm okay with the blades so long as they don't go to Hayder's Razor level of absurdity -- but that's insufficient to call Fenris anime. Because then, all 2H warriors are anime.

Regarding Fenris' look, I still don't see it. I've watched numerous types of anime and have read many more forms of manga, and Fenris doesn't strike me as being something worthy of being called anime.

[Fast Jimmy]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

To be honest, I do see the resemblance, but Fenris is somewhat intermediate between Cloud and more typical 'western' characters. As for the swords, I won't talk about the length (hey, a notorious pirate chief from my country's history, 'Grutte Pier' - Pier Gerlofs Donia - is supposed to have handled a blade 2.15 metres long) but they are too big. Both the blade and the grip are too wide, in real-world terms those swords would be far too heavy.

If Fenris is not based on JRPG stereotypes, then I think he sort of slipped through quality control, because way too many people see the similarity. That is something you want to avoid, unless you intend it as a homage.

Indeed the blade width is too big -- though honestly, I'm okay with the blades so long as they don't go to Hayder's Razor level of absurdity -- but that's insufficient to call Fenris anime. Because then, all 2H warriors are anime.

Regarding Fenris' look, I still don't see it. I've watched numerous types of anime and have read many more forms of manga, and Fenris doesn't strike me as being something worthy of being called anime.

I'd say its his perfectly stylized hair, angular face, brooding personality.. it just seems much more Japanese in nature than any other Dragon Age character that we've seen so far, elves included. I understand that elves are supposed to have a more agile, supple appearance, but his features, coupled with the silly "spiky armor" is way too over the top. Everything about his style seems out of place in the Dragon Age world.

Then again, this is not a hill I'm willing to die on, so I will concede he isn't standard anime faire. But it is the first impression I had upon seeing him (as was many's response), so that's why I bring it up.


A hill I WOULDN'T mind dying on is the diffrence between Fallout 1 and 2 and Fallout 3. Fallout 3 is an interesting game, but it is nothing, I repeat NOTHING like Fallout 1 and 2. The original Fallouts had an isometric camera view, not a first or third person one. Its not a shooter, but a true turn-based RPG that just happens to have guns (which are aimed by the character based on skill, not on the player). While I like the Elder Scrolls games, Fallout 3 was a Elder Scrolls game with guns and it didn't feel right in the series.

If you ever played Arcanum, it was heavily influenced by the original Fallouts. If not, I'd say you may want to add that to the list as well.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 08 mars 2012 - 12:57 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

MouseNo4 wrote...
Everything about the game - minus the horrid story ending and the re-used areas - was just ten times better than the first.

Which brings me to my point - how can people hate it so much?

Because it was not. I find almost nothing better in DA2. I hate the new combat. I dislike the animations, the mechanics, the enemy waves - everything. I hate the loot system used, the leveing system used. I hate fixed NPC's that you cannot equip properly.

The few things I do find interesting and worth persuing were the new approval system (only label it better. Rival sound negative/evil and people instinctively avoid it) and the attempt at a more personal story.

[ScotGaymer]

Wulfram wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Five: I believe also that you fundamentally misunderstand what Rivalry is at a very basic level, and that is NOT the fault of the game or the developers - it is instead a Comprehension problem on your part.

No, people misunderstanding what Friendship and Rivalry are is very much the fault of the game and the developers, because they consistently failed to stick to what it was supposed to mean. 

It's supposed to be about whether you agree on a major issue - or a few major issues, though this tends to create problems of it's own - but half the time it is used as straight Approval/Disapproval.  As indeed it is in the Anders flirting case - you get rivalry because he's upset, and it has nothing to do with your opinion on mages.

Friendship/Rivalry was perhaps the best innovation of DA2, but it's implementation was a mess.  And if the developers can't consistently seperate Rivalry from Disapproval, you can't complain that some players tend to end up treating it as such

I don't disagree that it was yet another thing that the Dev team was unable to implement correctly; but that doesn't detract from my point to that guy that he doesnt understand what Rivalry is.

I don't mind that Anders gets rivalry points in that situation simply because Rivalry as you said it suppoed to be they disagree with you (or are upset by you) but ultimately respect you and who you are and thus like you because of it.
Ander's getting rivalry here does not fall outwith that definition as you claim.

As I said there are times in the game where Friendship/Rivalry is used as Approval/Disapproval instead which I suppose means that even some of the Devs misunderstood what Rivalry was about as well as this guy that I was talking about/to.

As to the OP; he probably isn't reading anymore which is probably a good thing because I just don't get him at all. He says he doesn't like games that have an interactive story with choices and consequences; which leaves me thinking why the heck is he playing an RPG then?
Seems to me that more linear FPS's and Adventure games would be more his kind of thing.

[Das Tentakel]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

As for the swords, I won't talk about the length...but they are too big. Both the blade and the grip are too wide, in real-world terms those swords would be far too heavy.

If Fenris is not based on JRPG stereotypes, then I think he sort of slipped through quality control, because way too many people see the similarity. That is something you want to avoid, unless you intend it as a homage.

Indeed the blade width is too big -- though honestly, I'm okay with the blades so long as they don't go to Hayder's Razor level of absurdity -- but that's insufficient to call Fenris anime. Because then, all 2H warriors are anime.

It's stylization, you can especially see it with daggers in DA:O and DA2, which are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too big (not just width). There was a time, in the low-poly, low-res era, that this was perhaps necessary, but I do get the impression there's a tendency in DA to make them big, period. Just because. Wouldn't be surprised if it is the subject of chuckles over there in Edmonton:P

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Regarding Fenris' look, I still don't see it. I've watched numerous types of anime and have read many more forms of manga, and Fenris doesn't strike me as being something worthy of being called anime.

Because he isn't depicted in the manga 'style'. It's a pseudo-realistic depiction of an androgynous guy with light spiky hair, an edgy-leathery outfit and a big sword. If Cloud was 'westernized', he would not look too different from Fenris I think. Regardless of what I or you think, a lot of people have commented on this, which suggests this is an easy conclusion to make. It may not have been the artists' intention, but there you go...partly because of the DA2 redesign male elves are a bit more androgynous, spiky white hair has its...associations, add sword, broodiness...

Had a big disconnect with Fenris' voice, by the way. Pretty androgynous boys shouldn't have low, brooding voices...

On a side note, I discovered yesterday that Bioware sure went all the distance to force their 'iconic look' on your character. After Hawke gets an estate, you get 'finery' to dress up. Oddly enough, you start in the mansion with Hawke wearing the finery, while it's actually still in a chest and what Hawke really ('invisibly') wears is the armour and weapons worn in the Deep Roads!
What's more, I discovered, while trying to let Hawke go 'en civil' (in finery, unarmed) to the Companion characters' homes, that warrior Hawke, at least, will ALWAYS wear a greatsword. You can let Hawke walk the streets of Kirkwall in underwear, but that greatsword...will always be there, even if you dropped every single item of equipment.

Hilarious!
Also: Somebody didn't get the essence of roleplaying. I mean, really...

[Lynata]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
Then again, this is not a hill I'm willing to die on, so I will concede he isn't standard anime faire.

Given the extremely wide range of products - in both content and art style - I'm not sure there actually is such a thing as a "standard anime faire", much like there is no "standard life-action faire". But I, too, had to think of Final Fantasy the moment I first spotted Fenris. Hairstyle, hair colour (especially in contrast to skin), clothing, ... add to that his extremely cliche-laden name...

It's just too much. I won't go as far as to say the resemblance was intentional (and I will admit that his appearance, whilst looking out of place, is not "impossible"), but if it wasn't, whoever designed him is living in a closet. And given the team's apparent goal was to make "everything more awesome", I see lack of knowledge as the less likely explanation. Keep in mind the target audience BioWare was trying to tap with the console-focus of DA2, and it only gets even more obvious.

Not that I cared much, though. True to the age-old rule of "special snowflakes", Fenris was at least unique - so by not bringing this companion along he had next to no impact to how I perceived the setting whilst playing the game. At times, ignorance really is a blessing.

Modifié par Lynata, 08 mars 2012 - 01:57 .

[PinkDiamondstl]

JeeWeeJ wrote...

Reidbynature wrote...

JeeWeeJ wrote...

Dont feed the troll people....

You mean PinkDiamondstl, right?

I do, sorry if that wasn't clear

You were talking about me??? And here I thougth that you were talking about the troll who posted this ridiculous
 thread .So now let me make my self clear. I not a troll nor an trolling. And to all others I'll leave this 

[Fast Jimmy]

simfamSP wrote...

Cloud was a lost soul in some imaginary world he made up. He thought he was part of a group of super warrior badasses but it turned out he wasn't powerful enough to take Jenova cells (or whatever it's called.) He spends the whole game jepordising the mission because he feels he isn't a good leader though at the end bangs big ****** Tifa and saves the day by killing Sepiroth...


Fenris has a really tormented past as a slave. He's been abused, mistreated, raped (speculation,) experimented on and has had one of the most painful experiences in his life. His memory has been almost wiped, he can't remember who his family is, and then his sister ends up betraying him...

If I was Fenris I'd be pretty pissed to.


Just because the fact that they both like to moan doesn't mean one is based on another. Hell, why not bring Squall here too, isn't he like Anders? Or maybe most FF protagonists other than Zidane from IX.

There is a difference between these characters and that is one has a pretty SCREWED up past. And the other one is living of another's. Though Cloud's home does get destroyed by Sepiroth he doesn't even mention that with all his moaning.

I didn't say the character backstory was based off anything. I was simply alluding to overall design. Fenris is spiky, big-sword, emotionally dark and super-pretty. So is Cloud.

I'm not saying their individual life crises or struggles aren't legitimate, or whatever, just that they fall into a similar mold. I could have used Squall just as easily, or Ryu from Bleach, or Sasuke from for Naruto. Big sword - perfect hair - angular, feminized faces - brooding personalities.

That's what people think of when they say "anime." The Japanese standard, go-to protagonist or character. Which is fine, I suppose, in Japaense or anime genres. But to drop in a character with these features, appearance and mannerisms in the middle of a Western style RPG is going to draw attention at best, scorn at worst.

[Wulfram]

I think it's mostly the hair, really. Angsty Guy with Big Sword wouldn't really be much of departure from normal Bioware. I mean, Xan made Fenris look cheerful, even if his sword was flaming rather than huge. And the swords aren't any bigger than Origins, though Fenris' slvish slenderness exagerrates this.

But hair like that really isn't part of Bioware's normal repertoire, even in DA2.

edit: Maybe they should have given him a few braids?  Bioware seem to like braids.

Modifié par Wulfram, 08 mars 2012 - 11:15 .

[Melca36]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

DA2 was a good game . People are stupid flat out STUPID to dislike this game . True gamers understand DA2 to be as short as it was.

Funny how the developers have acknowledged missteps with the game in previous posts.



DA:2 was a GOOD game..yes but it could have been a GREAT game had it NOT been rushed.

[PinkDiamondstl]

Melca36 wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

DA2 was a good game . People are stupid flat out STUPID to dislike this game . True gamers understand DA2 to be as short as it was.

Funny how the developers have acknowledged missteps with the game in previous posts.



DA:2 was a GOOD game..yes but it could have been a GREAT game had it NOT been rushed.

So you would rather wait 3 years or more? 

[MagmaSaiyan]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

DA2 was a good game . People are stupid flat out STUPID to dislike this game . True gamers understand DA2 to be as short as it was.

Funny how the developers have acknowledged missteps with the game in previous posts.



DA:2 was a GOOD game..yes but it could have been a GREAT game had it NOT been rushed.

So you would rather wait 3 years or more? 

i know i couldnt,<_< though i was technically just getting into DA. Why cant DA2 be just a good game? why does it have to be amazing? because Bioware made it? because its DA? i rate it a pretty good game consider the limited time it apparently had. though i should say that if they should take longer to make im fine, longer the better but i dont want to wait no more than 3 years

[zyntifox]

Melca36 wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

DA2 was a good game . People are stupid flat out STUPID to dislike this game . True gamers understand DA2 to be as short as it was.

Funny how the developers have acknowledged missteps with the game in previous posts.



DA:2 was a GOOD game..yes but it could have been a GREAT game had it NOT been rushed.

I don't think it would have been a good or great game if the development cycle would have been longer. Since the changes to the franchise that i disliked the most would have persisted, such as combat, voice prot and lack of customization. If the development cycle would have been longer i think what they would have improved, which they have also acknowledged as an issue, wouid have been the map re-cycling. Now i thought the map re-cycling was bad but not a game-breaker. I just think the overall direction to a more cinematic aproach was the problem and that was something that would have been in the game no matter how long the game would have been in development. But that's just my opinion.

Modifié par Cstaf, 09 mars 2012 - 05:35 .

[Melca36]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

DA2 was a good game . People are stupid flat out STUPID to dislike this game . True gamers understand DA2 to be as short as it was.

Funny how the developers have acknowledged missteps with the game in previous posts.



DA:2 was a GOOD game..yes but it could have been a GREAT game had it NOT been rushed.

So you would rather wait 3 years or more? 

For $60 I want a quality game. As I said....DA:2 was a good game but it was NOT perfect.    The developers have acknowledged this and have promised a game that would take the best of DA:2 and add more elements of what made Origin a success.

I am more than willing to wait.

[TEWR]

I'd say its his perfectly stylized hair, angular face, brooding personality.. it just seems much more Japanese in nature than any other Dragon Age character that we've seen so far, elves included. I understand that elves are supposed to have a more agile, supple appearance, but his features, coupled with the silly "spiky armor" is way too over the top. Everything about his style seems out of place in the Dragon Age world.

But his hair isn't stylized. It's a normal hairstyle. One that I currently maintain without doing anything aside from moving the hair out of my eyes on occasion. My hair just sort of grew to the same style as Fenris'.

And I have to question the notion that brooding = anime as well. Sure it's not unheard of for that to be seen in anime, but it's also standard fare for some games, movies, etc. It doesn't automatically make something anime. Just.... broody. And Wulfram said that it's not unusual for Bioware to do that as well.

The spiky armor -- well... really pointy armor -- I'll concede.

Then again, this is not a hill I'm willing to die on, so I will concede he isn't standard anime faire. But it is the first impression I had upon seeing him (as was many's response), so that's why I bring it up

Fair enough. I will not kill you on top of this hill. I accept your surrender. =P

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 09 mars 2012 - 07:03 .

[Sifr]

If I have to be honest, it was the fact it wasn't like Origins that made me love DA2.

Don't get me wrong, as a writer I love storyline and plotting, something Origins had in abundance, but I always felt a certain disconnect in the game that while I was playing the Warden, that was it, I was simply playing the Warden. In Dragon Age 2 I felt that while yes, Hawke's character already there, I wanted to do what Hawke would do and felt a far more tangible connection to my companions than I ever felt in the first game.

A good example is this, that while I loved Sten, Shale and Zevran, I rarely used them as party members because they never really felt like people who had lives outside of the Warden. Whereas in the second game I enjoyed mixing it up by seeing what would happen on quests where in the background I'd have Aveline/Isabela having random catfights, Merrill cuckoolander perspective making me laugh, or simple things like Sebastian and Bethany's innocent flirtation.

Even things that had nothing to do with Hawke.

Donnic and Fenris play cards? Well Donnic seems to have a far better relationship with Fenris than Hawke, where their interaction always seemed strained, like Donnic was uneasy around them. And that's good! No matter what personality you go with, Hawke and Donnic are two very different people! Even more so considering that even Aveline didn't share with Hawke that her and Donnic are considering having children!

The thing that has kept me coming back to DA2 time and time again is the characters, they seemed far more developed and more rounded than those in the first game, though I once again must note that I loved the characters in the first game also.

The story...

This may seem blasphemous, but I think Hawke's story is actually more epic than the one of the Warden. The Warden's tale was the story of good and evil, betrayal, intrigue and saving the world. It is a epic, don't get me wrong, but the sort of story we've seen a dozen times over.

Hawke's tale, at least that of the paragon and sarcastic personalities, is simply that of someone who deeply wants to have a normal life, yet was thrust into a position of authority that they never really wanted. Hawke doesn't want to save the world, they would rather be down the pub that fighting a war between Mages and Templars, but nonetheless the reason they do what they do is because its the right.

Hawke's motivations are also very human. After the death of their father, they are now the breadwinner and have to be the one to keep the family going through hardship. They are the impetus that keeps them level-headed during the escape from Lothering, that they can't afford to argue while in danger. Hawke's sole pre-occupation is to want to protect and provide for their mother, protect Bethany from the Templars of Kirkwall or stop Carver from being so foolhardy.

Even after arising to the nobility, Hawke refuses a position of power, and after becoming The Champion, Hawke never seems to flaunt their status to their advantage, rather continues doing what they always did, manage Kirkwall from the sidelines.

For the original subtitle of "Rise to Power", Hawke's rise seems rather reluctant in this respect. Hawke takes charge because, when push comes to shove, no-one else it seems will.

This is why Hawke feels like a more real character than the Warden and why, in my opinion, this is actually a stronger entry to the franchise that, simply because it wasn't as popular as the first, should nonetheless not be ignored for why it was great.

Modifié par Sifr1449, 09 mars 2012 - 07:19 .

[LTD]

Disappointment is the key word here.
Not many truly consider it a BAD game, rather  a pretty mediocre one. In situation where one has no expectations or hopes to be crushed, there is absolutely no reason to dislike Dragon Age II, it can simply be forgotten or mayhaps even enjoyed somehow. If it weren't called Dragon Age II but say, Anime Era: Part I - Bi Wizards in Distress  nobody here would hate it with such passion. Instead, we'd agree it is a mediocre, rushed  game by a dev team that clearly has some awesome writers aboard. Certainly game  worthy of a sequel!

Alas, DA:O was truly an awesome game despite it's flaws. Expectations for DA II were high. Everybody thought DA II would take everything that worked in DA:O and expand and build on it. Instead, we got a ton of U- turns. We got   rushed consolized shovelware for cool people. Art style went to new, different and annoying direction. Too many things are made half arsedly, with bad taste and in low quality. 

Things that personally pissed me off about DA II

- New art direction was terrible. Too many things reminded me of Anime too much. New look of Dark Spawn and the..whatshername, Wizard of the Wilds were of incredibly bad taste.
- New combat animations and entire philosophy and art style behind  movemet during combat as a whole was terrible. I don't want my warrior or rogue to teleport and barrel roll all over the place like some retarded arcade monkey.
- EA's marketing department ensured everybody had an attitude problem towards this game long before anyone had actually tried it. I really hope I never have to see Button-awesome connection dude tryign to COOLIFY things ever again.
- Beginning of this game looks like ****. Literally. I don't mean this in as unconstructive slur-sense as it sounds like. Undeniably and literally, during first 30-35 mins everything just looks like ****.
- Incredibly ****ty (post release) DA:O DLC ensured people were feeling cheated and ripped off by Dragon Age related junk for some good 12 months preluding DA II release. They released a mediocre and rushed  DA II in environment where tolerance towards DA related rushed mediocre low quality **** was in all time low among newly made fans of the Franchise.
- Obvious stuff everybody hates. Dumb spawn waves of enemies, recycled dungeons. Not having much to explore. Too much combat.
- Cheap low effort stunt to generate some easy cash. It is overall feeling present in everywhere from recycled maps to ridiculous " deluxe edition" box that has no physical content at all. No manuals, no maps, no art books, nothing but these ****ing code hurrr for weapons durrrr cards I've grown to hate.


It is great, hurtfull irony that on top of all this, BW released DLC that is(apparently?) of very good quality. We have disappointing DA II with good DLC and the awesome DA:O with very bad (post-release) DLC. O tempora, o mores.

Modifié par LTD, 09 mars 2012 - 09:58 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Sifr1449 wrote...
The story...

This may seem blasphemous, but I think Hawke's story is actually more epic than the one of the Warden. The Warden's tale was the story of good and evil, betrayal, intrigue and saving the world. It is a epic, don't get me wrong, but the sort of story we've seen a dozen times over.

Hawke's tale, at least that of the paragon and sarcastic personalities, is simply that of someone who deeply wants to have a normal life, yet was thrust into a position of authority that they never really wanted. Hawke doesn't want to save the world, they would rather be down the pub that fighting a war between Mages and Templars, but nonetheless the reason they do what they do is because its the right.

Hawke's motivations are also very human. After the death of their father, they are now the breadwinner and have to be the one to keep the family going through hardship. They are the impetus that keeps them level-headed during the escape from Lothering, that they can't afford to argue while in danger. Hawke's sole pre-occupation is to want to protect and provide for their mother, protect Bethany from the Templars of Kirkwall or stop Carver from being so foolhardy.

Even after arising to the nobility, Hawke refuses a position of power, and after becoming The Champion, Hawke never seems to flaunt their status to their advantage, rather continues doing what they always did, manage Kirkwall from the sidelines.

For the original subtitle of "Rise to Power", Hawke's rise seems rather reluctant in this respect. Hawke takes charge because, when push comes to shove, no-one else it seems will.

This is why Hawke feels like a more real character than the Warden and why, in my opinion, this is actually a stronger entry to the franchise that, simply because it wasn't as popular as the first, should nonetheless not be ignored for why it was great.

Frankly, Hawke's motivations fall aparat rather fast.
The expedition, the arishok - all seems forced. Since he gained nobility status and secured his faimily, there simply is not need for Hawke to do more adventuring.

The idea behind Hawke and a more person touch is nice. Havign a fimily was a good idea. But I can't say it was executed well. Certanly not to it's full potential.

The whole Rise to Power feels telegraphed and unreal. So much wasted potential.

[Fast Jimmy]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

 So much wasted potential.

And that, to me, is the problem.

The entire first time I played through DA2, I kept seeing things and thinking "ohhh... where are they going with this? How will this play out? How are they going to implement this?"

The answer? They weren't. They didn't. Family dynamic? None... there is no family to speak of by Act 3. Companions with their own homes? That's gotta have some kind of cool interactivity, right? They wouldn't just throw out having conversations on the fly or only during certain Acts unless they were going to do something... oh, wait. They did. But wait, I can have my LI move in with me! This will be awesome, I'm sure there is going to be something going on besides them just stadning around my lobby. Oh... hey... there you are. Just standing around my lobby...

Cross class combos, that's such a cool gameplay mechanic! Once I start leveling up some of those skills to allow for it, I'm sure there will be an easier way to execute them, right? Wrong. You'll get a squiggly couple of lines over the head of your enemy for half of a second that you'll have to decipher every time you want to pull one off. Unless you want to spend twenty minutes every time you level up going through the Custom Tactics screen for all of your characters, assigning new logic and skills. Way to make a cool feature really accessible.

Dealing with the Arishok, leader of the entire Qunari military? That's a really cool premise! Much more so than dealing with the spineless Viscount, or the invisible Meredith and Orsino. Oh, but that's pretty much limited to Act 2 alone. And has no bearing on the overall story, no matter what you do.

Being a refugee, helping other Fereldens, giving money to charities that help, being in a position of power to make life better... that's what Hawke, as a nice guy, would do, right? Nope. He says "screw you dirt bags, I'm moving to High Town. Good luck choking on all this dust."

Don't get me started on the Enigma of Kirkwall and how that was built up as something really cool and in a recent interview with DG was just confirmed to be a reason for blood mage fights. FML.

The Bone Pit... I can own my own land and business! This is going to be great! I'm going to fight for the rights of my Ferelden workers, there's no way that my work here is going to get everyone killed for no reason other than a Champion piece of armor... Hawke's not that shallow... no way...

I could keep going. Notice, none of this mentions reused environments or ninja waves or anime combat or railroaded story. This 250+ word post is all about missed and wasted potential. And I didn't even scratch the surface of what was actually WRONG with the game. I can ignore bad. As long as it doesn't have things presented that are never used/followed through with (like putting candy in front of a baby and then snatching it away) and it has aspects which are genuinely good to outweigh the bad, I can deal with it.

DA2 has nuggets of good, but its hidden amongst piles of undeveloped, unsatisfyingly unfinished ideas, along with all of the straight out bad things. I've seen fans on these boards say they can ignore the bad because they like the good... I just can't ignore the things that looked like they were going somewhere and wind up just dropping right off a cliff.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 09 mars 2012 - 12:49 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Hey, the Viscount was a nice, sensible guy.

[Reidbynature]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

DA2 was a good game . People are stupid flat out STUPID to dislike this game . True gamers understand DA2 to be as short as it was.

Funny how the developers have acknowledged missteps with the game in previous posts.



DA:2 was a GOOD game..yes but it could have been a GREAT game had it NOT been rushed.

So you would rather wait 3 years or more? 

How can the sensible answer to that not be yes?  A good game over any game has to preferrable to most people.

[Rogue Eagle]

Dragon Age 1 + Expansion had an epic kind of feel to them. They weren't perfect, but there was a great sense of 'community' in the campsite, and the game had a heart. Also fantastic decision points.
It was immersive.

Dragon age II.... well the word 'recycled' has been used enough in this thread, even though I remember at the time of release when people were comparing installed folders of the 2 games (DA2 being smaller) one of the devs said they were just getting smarter at making games >>

The game also really needed a campsite or 'central point' to hang out with party members - it seems like beyond the ones tagging along behind you (which aren't really easy to interact with in the new gameplay style) are pretty much the only attempt to make you feel like less of a loner in this world (and even then, its mostly only stupid remarks in battle).

Story & Characters: it's hard to give a crap. I think Anders was the only character I kind of had any connection with, and that's probably more due to the DA:A history of the character. Story was lackluster.

The WORLD needed to be bigger, if I ever go to that damned city again it'll be too soon. Second biggest gripe.

Most Major gripe I have: Gameplay. Waves of enemies after you defeat the last lot does not a good game make. Also the lack of base damage the weapons seem to do on basic enemies, feels like if I'm not using a skill, I'm lightly tapping them to death, and it does get a bit repetitive.

Now don't get me wrong, I came into this game with an open mind. I just think after Mass Effect 2, Bioware dropped the ball on every single release. I don't know what happened, if the quality dropped or if I'm growing out of of their games...

[Sifr]

To address the above;

I agree, there could have been a lot more interaction between Hawke, their family, love interests and companions, this was something I felt was lacking in comparison to the first, I did miss the fact that the Warden could go up to Sten and ask something innocuous like;

"So, Qunari attitudes to mages are kind of weird. Wanna discuss?"

Even if the answer was a simple "No!"

Still, I enjoyed the fact that we do see the entire family doesn't get on. Hawke is trying to be the breadwinner, Hawke is annoyed by Gamlen squandering the family fortune, Carver hates Hawke, Carver hates Gamlen even though Carver IS essentially Gamlen, Carver hasn't got a direction in life, Bethany feels lost in wanting to live a life but worried that the Templars will come a-knocking on the door, Gamlen is continually doing things to make the situation worse, while Leandra is both trying to hold her grief together over the death of one of her children and keep them all from tearing each other apart.

I don't see Hawke as selling out the refugees by getting ahead in Act 2? Aveline mentions in casual dialogue that you are pouring cash into Lowtown to aid the refugees and that is causing some problems by upsetting the status quo. Also, Hawke's motivations seem rather grounded, they do what they do because its what they always have done, pitch in to lend a hand.

Aveline again points this out that by Act 2, Hawke is essentially a Rich Idiot With No Day Job. Hawke adventures because they can afford to and because they enjoy doing it, even if its a hassle. Especially when you consider Mage Hawke, who at this point in the story cannot fall back on being the Champion of Kirkwall to protect them. Bribes can only go so far and, while some of the nobility might suspect something is up with the new resident of the old Amell mansion, they're ultimately doing more good than bad in the city. Also when the Viscount asks you to do something and people suspect you of being a Mage, its best not ****** off the boss at this point, right?

Conversely, Hawke's actions in the second act may also be to pay bribes so Bethany is kept out of harm in the Gallows, which is heavily implied already in the game to be the case. Remember, you don't see your kids once they are sent to the Circle unless you a RICH, so Leandra seeing Bethany weekly tells you something, especially considering we are talking about the Gallows here! Even Finn's parents had to pay through the nose to see him in the Kinloch Hold and that is one of the more lenient Circles!

Also, I can't see that Hawke managing the Bone Pit as a Landowner in Act 1 and 2 is under-developed? Granted its small things such as raising the wages so that other Ferelden refugees can eat, forgiving Sabin for trying to sell you out to feed their family, dealing with production issues, etc, but thats what Hawke's partnership is... Hawke getting their hands dirty by dealing with their fellow Fereldens and doing things so that Hubert doesn't have too? Unless you want "Hawke does Tax Audits" DLC, what else more is there for them to do?

Modifié par Sifr1449, 09 mars 2012 - 03:56 .