129 réponses à ce sujet

[Pobatti]

I've read a bunch of posts here and there that bluntly claim that, in the epilogue, Tali and Garrus are doomed to starve to death on the planet the Normandy crash landed. I've seen footage of this scene, but all I see are the Normandy crashing, and the scene that suggests the crew colonise the planet by continuing to procreate while living out their natural lives.

But folks always say "not Garrus or Tali, they will definitely starve".

I fully understand their races biochemistry is so different from humans that foods a human can eat may end up very poisonous to either of those - but I can't understand why we need to specifically segregate these two:

• It's an unknown world. Who knows if there's anything edible even for humans?
• Then again, there may be some local produce that Quarians and Turians can subsist on.
• I know the Normandy crashed, but it's smaller systems may still operate.

Now, in bullet point 1 I pointed out that there may not be anything on that planet that's safe for a human to eat. Why must we assume that we humans can safely eat any green leafy substance we find growing out of the ground? Certain plants and fungi are incredibly poisonous and even lethal here on Earth.

"But we know the humans survive - that's why there's still humans there generations later..."

I know that - but don't forget bullet point 3 - though the Normandy crashed, many of it's internal systems could still be fully functional. In fact, the only thing we know the Normandy can no longer do is take off. Even then, the crew still have their omni-tools which can be used as minifacturing labs away from the ship if the need arises.

So there you have it, the Normandy's own 'matter conversion/replication' device (which would mainly be used to provide food and nourishment on extended trips away from a starbase by converting waste matter) and omni-tools which can be used as a personal minifacturing tool to do similar things. Either or both of these things must have been used on the Normandy during Mass Effect 1, 2 or 3 to keep the whole crew well stocked. It's true that there was a 'chef' in Mass Effect 2, but he only asked for the food from the Citadel because he wanted to serve something that tasted a bit better than the normal stuff.

As far as I recall, Tali and Garrus didn't starve on extended journeys in either of the first two games. Neither were either seem desperately racing to the nearest fast food hut when docked at the Citadel, Omega or Illium.

So... both these characters could easily survive just like the rest of the crew.

Why are people so certain they'll starve?

Modifié par Pobatti, 03 mars 2012 - 08:00 .

[LilyasAvalon]

I'm familiar with science, can amino and dextro based plants/lifeforms naturally survive on the same planet?

[MythicLegands]

Uh because there DNA is completely different than then the other species(a simple fruit salad can cause them to choke and die) and if the humans colonized the world, means that the planet was not dextro based. And beside why would you want to live on a planet of inbreds.

[Pobatti]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

I'm familiar with science, can amino and dextro based plants/lifeforms naturally survive on the same planet?

I'm pretty sure that the whole point of Tali's suit is to do just that - since they need to go on extended pilgrimages and serve on the ships of non-Quarians, the suit will keep them alive, and pretty much any omni-tool and matter conversion unit would provide them with any tools and food they need. Surely the same is true of Garrus.

[Pobatti]

That explains why nobody - not even the humans, could safely say pick a berry and eat it. What they'd need to do is use local material as fuel for the matter convertor, just as they would on long voyages away from a starbase.

Why can't they continue to replicate the same food they ate on the Normandy?

Modifié par Pobatti, 03 mars 2012 - 08:10 .

[MythicLegands]

Pobatti wrote...

So why can't they continue to replicate the same food they ate on the Normandy?

Because Shepard destroyed all the space magic.

[Pottumuusi]

It's pretty stupid to think that the Normandy crew could colonize a planet.
You need at least 50 people to properly sustain a gene pool or else you will get a planet full of inbreds that will die because they were born with their arm through their heart.

[Pobatti]

MythicLegands wrote...

Pobatti wrote...

So why can't they continue to replicate the same food they ate on the Normandy?

Because Shepard destroyed all the space magic.

All I saw being destroyed were the Reapers, Mass Relays and the Citadel. While you could say that pretty much everything uses some form of mass effect technology, not everything would have been destroyed - otherwise Liara and Kaiden's heads would have exploded, guns and armor would be useless, all the ships around the Earth would have been rendered inoperative and all plunged to Earth or their life support systems failed...

I think it's just the Reaper tech that responded to whatever it was Shepard did.

[xtorma]

They have a matter converter? that makes food?....like in star trek?

Modifié par xtorma, 03 mars 2012 - 08:15 .

[Pobatti]

Pottumuusi wrote...

It's pretty stupid to think that the Normandy crew could colonize a planet.
You need at least 50 people to properly sustain a gene pool or else you will get a planet full of inbreds that will die because they were born with their arm through their heart.

Not strictly true. You see, one of the Normandy crew was Liara, an Asari.

They procreate using their own genetic data every time. The 'father' is only used to randomise the genetic data, and could be anyone or thing. This means that Liara could have children with each and every member of the crew (including any other female survivors). If there's any native life-form on the planet, these could be drawn into the mix as well.

[kingsims]

The Normandy mass effect core is fried and cannot ever be repaired. This means the Normandy has no power left. Garrus and Tali will be the first to die due to food issues and reproduction. So there would only be Asari and Humans on the colony that is if Liara decides to move on.

[Dariustwinblade]

You know as much as inbreeding causes higher chances of deformed childrens. Its also has an equally higher chance of producing as prodigious children. Depending on the genelogy of the parents.


Those children can be deformed mutants or prodigal geniuses. Both are equally viable.

[Pobatti]

xtorma wrote...

They have a matter converter? that makes food?....like in star trek?

It's not said anywhere, but one would be aboard for obvious reasons. There's no cargo bay filled with piles upon piles of assorted snacks for aliens that gets regularly stocked up or anything, and besides the technology is no different in principal to the ability to convert any material into omni-gel which can be used to manufacture any mechanical item. The process would be the same, but with biological data.

[Pobatti]

kingsims wrote...

The Normandy mass effect core is fried and cannot ever be repaired. This means the Normandy has no power left. Garrus and Tali will be the first to die due to food issues and reproduction. So there would only be Asari and Humans on the colony that is if Liara decides to move on.

That's assuming everything's hooked into the main power supply. In reality, things like the food supply and such would all run off their own internal backup power source that can be recharged. If each gun and piece of armor contains a power cell that can last 1000 years, why hook such a vital piece of equipment permanently to the ships main engines?

[Tric]

Pobatti wrote...

Why can't they continue to replicate the same food they ate on the Normandy?

Why hello, is someone discussing the horrible, horrible ending for the Normandy? Let me just jump in, I'd love for someone to prove me there's still hope.

Because the food on the Normandy was probably preserved somehow, either frozen, dried or similar, these would mean that they couldn't use any plant they might have (and this is even speculating they have ingredients rather than just nutrient paste or something) won't be viable for plantations and since you can't make animals from steaks that's out too.
And we are never shown they can make food from nothing, or however that's supposed to work, if they could why would Mess Sergeant Gardner even ask Shep to go grocery shopping on the Citadel?

And then there's the genepool like Pottumuusi said.

Dariustwinblade wrote...

You know as much as inbreeding
causes higher chances of deformed childrens. Its also has an equally
higher chance of producing as prodigious children. Depending on the
genelogy of the parents.


Those children can be deformed mutants or prodigal geniuses. Both are equally viable.

Just because I can hit my head and start seeing smells so to become an amazing artist doesn't mean I'm actually going to try it, I'd probably just get simple head trauma instead.

Modifié par SomethingSome, 03 mars 2012 - 08:26 .

[Pottumuusi]

Pobatti wrote...

Pottumuusi wrote...

It's pretty stupid to think that the Normandy crew could colonize a planet.
You need at least 50 people to properly sustain a gene pool or else you will get a planet full of inbreds that will die because they were born with their arm through their heart.

Not strictly true. You see, one of the Normandy crew was Liara, an Asari.

They procreate using their own genetic data every time. The 'father' is only used to randomise the genetic data, and could be anyone or thing. This means that Liara could have children with each and every member of the crew (including any other female survivors). If there's any native life-form on the planet, these could be drawn into the mix as well.

Oh yes, I forgot about that. I guess the deus ex plot armor prevails forever.

Still, no humans.

[Big I]

There's no food replicators in ME. People have enough to eat on ships in ME because of food stores on the ship.

I'm no scientist but my understanding is that having an eco-system with both amino-dextros and standard amino acid based life is impossible, even before figuring out which plants and animals are actually edible. Best case scenario, the environment around the crash site contains something edible for either Liara, the Prothean and the humans, or something edible for Tali and Garrus. Unless someone happened to be growing edible plants on the Normandy they won't be growing their own food.

[xtorma]

Hey liara, could you pass the omni gel tacos?

[Not the Droid]

I do not think Cornucopia Tech exists in mass effect. (thats what its caller right)

Otherwise you would well never have to probe for minerals... Also kind of puts a hit on the need for Credits... ANd good old Rup would not give you a shopping list to make standard allaince rations taste better.

[Tric]

Pottumuusi wrote...

Pobatti wrote...

Pottumuusi wrote...

It's pretty stupid to think that the Normandy crew could colonize a planet.
You need at least 50 people to properly sustain a gene pool or else you will get a planet full of inbreds that will die because they were born with their arm through their heart.

Not strictly true. You see, one of the Normandy crew was Liara, an Asari.

They procreate using their own genetic data every time. The 'father' is only used to randomise the genetic data, and could be anyone or thing. This means that Liara could have children with each and every member of the crew (including any other female survivors). If there's any native life-form on the planet, these could be drawn into the mix as well.

Oh yes, I forgot about that. I guess the deus ex plot armor prevails forever.

Still, no humans.

And still a colony of inbreeds because the asari would end up having to reproduce with each other sooner or later and they all have the same mother.
And that's not counting the number of pregnancies Liara might have to go through.

[curelightwounds]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

I'm familiar with science, can amino and dextro based plants/lifeforms naturally survive on the same planet?

There are some naturally occuring dextro-amino acids. It's possible.

The hard part would be determining which were which.

[AdrynBliss]

If there was a matter converter on board for creating food why would shep need to pick up ingredients from the citadel?
He needed to do so to complement the military rations they had on board, that and the ****ing about the bad food strongly suggests there is no technological way on board to create food.

The chances of any native foliage not being poisonous to humans is astronomical and all they had on board was military rations.
I was on board with this ending but thinking about that ending in more detail makes me realize that it's completely implausible even by sci fi standards and actually it does seem like a pretty lazy ending, given the level of detail in every other aspect of the mass effect universe to disregard real life concerns and science at the end is pretty crappy. :/

[LilyasAvalon]

Pobatti wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

I'm familiar with science, can amino and dextro based plants/lifeforms naturally survive on the same planet?

I'm pretty sure that the whole point of Tali's suit is to do just that - since they need to go on extended pilgrimages and serve on the ships of non-Quarians, the suit will keep them alive, and pretty much any omni-tool and matter conversion unit would provide them with any tools and food they need. Surely the same is true of Garrus.

So they use something similar to that food creation thingy from Star Trek basically?

[Kmead15]

Dariustwinblade wrote...

You know as much as inbreeding causes higher chances of deformed childrens. Its also has an equally higher chance of producing as prodigious children. Depending on the genelogy of the parents.


Those children can be deformed mutants or prodigal geniuses. Both are equally viable.

Not so!

From MassEffectWiki:
"Most human governments offer free assessment and correction therapies to its citizens, which has nearly eliminated genetic diseases from the human gene pool. All Alliance soldiers receive gene therapy -- provided by MarsGene -- upon enrolling, though most genetic therapies take years to come into their full effect."

Since inbreeding mostly just increases the odds of getting homozygotes, you mostly run into issues when deleterious alleles exist in the population. If those are gone from the genepool in normal humans, they'd be even less likely to be present in humans who have, to a man, had genetic therapy. So deformed mutants is actually less likely, at least until new mutations start cropping up in the genome.

Modifié par Kmead15, 03 mars 2012 - 08:35 .

[Draconis6666]

Pobatti wrote...

kingsims wrote...

The Normandy mass effect core is fried and cannot ever be repaired. This means the Normandy has no power left. Garrus and Tali will be the first to die due to food issues and reproduction. So there would only be Asari and Humans on the colony that is if Liara decides to move on.

That's assuming everything's hooked into the main power supply. In reality, things like the food supply and such would all run off their own internal backup power source that can be recharged. If each gun and piece of armor contains a power cell that can last 1000 years, why hook such a vital piece of equipment permanently to the ships main engines?

The normandy has been stated to have fusion plants powering its electrical systems. which obviously have nothing to do with Mass Effect fields or cores or Eezo or any other "space magic"