129 réponses à ce sujet

[hippanda]

AdrynBliss wrote...

If there was a matter converter on board for creating food why would shep need to pick up ingredients from the citadel?
He needed to do so to complement the military rations they had on board, that and the ****ing about the bad food strongly suggests there is no technological way on board to create food.

The chances of any native foliage not being poisonous to humans is astronomical and all they had on board was military rations.
I was on board with this ending but thinking about that ending in more detail makes me realize that it's completely implausible even by sci fi standards and actually it does seem like a pretty lazy ending, given the level of detail in every other aspect of the mass effect universe to disregard real life concerns and science at the end is pretty crappy. :/

Not to mention that Joker's little trip to the Charon relay was completely unneccessary in the first place.

[curelightwounds]

AdrynBliss wrote...

[...]
I was on board with this ending but thinking about that ending in more detail makes me realize that it's completely implausible even by sci fi standards and actually it does seem like a pretty lazy ending, given the level of detail in every other aspect of the mass effect universe to disregard real life concerns and science at the end is pretty crappy. :/

It's these kinds of considerations that make me believe that there are better endings. BW took so much care constructing their universe; each planet has it's own sets of data and fluff; the side conversation on Illium of the Salarian father talking with his Asari daughter and all the detail that had to be considered to make that exchange as touching as it was -- it makes me think BW wouldn't muck up something like this -- it makes me think there must be something better.

[Not the Droid]

So they use something similar to that food creation thingy from Star Trek basically

If the Quarian "chit thief" is an example the eat there own food in her case Turain paste supplements cause it cheap but will keep her alive.

[Pobatti]

Not the Droid wrote...

I do not think Cornucopia Tech exists in mass effect. (thats what its caller right)

Otherwise you would well never have to probe for minerals... Also kind of puts a hit on the need for Credits... ANd good old Rup would not give you a shopping list to make standard allaince rations taste better.

You're right - Cornucopia Tech doesn't exist. That's because Cornucopia Tech is the ability to create something from nothing, which isn't the sort of thing I'm talking about here. The kind of food generation I'm referring to is simply a matter conversion device similar to how omni-tools can matter convert practically anything into omni-gel and then into any kind of electronic device or spare part.

You would put a few mushrooms, a dead cow and a couple of lumps of wood in one end, press the button and the stuff is converted into an intermediary mush, which can then be converted into nutrient supplement bars for consumption. They're probably not very tasty (hence why Gardiner asks you to get the supplies - he has the ability to serve food but he wants to serve better, more enjoyable food).

Now, it's never explicitly said there's such a device on the Normandy, or such a function on the omni-tool - but it's really common sense. These things would be among the first things needed aboard to pass certification in reality, even if the crew manage to somehow avoid ever needing to use them.

[Draconis6666]

SomethingSome wrote...

Pottumuusi wrote...

Pobatti wrote...

Pottumuusi wrote...

It's pretty stupid to think that the Normandy crew could colonize a planet.
You need at least 50 people to properly sustain a gene pool or else you will get a planet full of inbreds that will die because they were born with their arm through their heart.

Not strictly true. You see, one of the Normandy crew was Liara, an Asari.

They procreate using their own genetic data every time. The 'father' is only used to randomise the genetic data, and could be anyone or thing. This means that Liara could have children with each and every member of the crew (including any other female survivors). If there's any native life-form on the planet, these could be drawn into the mix as well.

Oh yes, I forgot about that. I guess the deus ex plot armor prevails forever.

Still, no humans.

And still a colony of inbreeds because the asari would end up having to reproduce with each other sooner or later and they all have the same mother.
And that's not counting the number of pregnancies Liara might have to go through.

There is absolutly no evidence that Asari can even be inbreed in the first place. All Asari are born from their mother's genes alone, both genes used in conception come from the mother, one is altered through the melding but the genetic material is still all coming from one place. The "father" DNA is simply used as a map to randomize the second gene but no genetic material is actualy taken from the father. So with that in mind its impossible to say if Asari even can be Inbreeds.

[Multiplayer optional LOL]

OP is like a mother who sees her son dead in a body bag then proceeds to tell herself "He's just sleeping really still."

Give it a week.

[Dark Specie]

Pobatti wrote...
Now, it's never explicitly said there's such a device on the Normandy, or such a function on the omni-tool - but it's really common sense. These things would be among the first things needed aboard to pass certification in reality, even if the crew manage to somehow avoid ever needing to use them.

If there's such a device, I wonder what the chances are of it surviving the Normandy crashing in a functioning state...

[Pobatti]

Multiplayer optional LOL wrote...

OP is like a mother who sees her son dead in a body bag then proceeds to tell herself "He's just sleeping really still."

Give it a week.

That can be a really healthy attitude you know, especially since it can actually happen 

[Pobatti]

Dark Specie wrote...

Pobatti wrote...
Now, it's never explicitly said there's such a device on the Normandy, or such a function on the omni-tool - but it's really common sense. These things would be among the first things needed aboard to pass certification in reality, even if the crew manage to somehow avoid ever needing to use them.

If there's such a device, I wonder what the chances are of it surviving the Normandy crashing in a functioning state...

In reality, such a device would be barely larger than a microwave oven. It's chances of survival are about the same as Shepard's alarm clock or the guns on the table in the armory.

[gearseffect]

Well How come Joker all of a sudden losses his nerve and faith in Shepard and attempts to leave like a scared B!tch? That don't sound like the Joker I know, heck NO! Joker was always there to pull OUR Virtual Shepard @ss out of sh!t. Now all of a sudden Joker is gonna run away? WTF? Why? WHY is he not near US?!

[Draconis6666]

gearseffect wrote...

Well How come Joker all of a sudden losses his nerve and faith in Shepard and attempts to leave like a scared B!tch? That don't sound like the Joker I know, heck NO! Joker was always there to pull OUR Virtual Shepard @ss out of sh!t. Now all of a sudden Joker is gonna run away? WTF? Why? WHY is he not near US?!

I saw somewhere where someone said it had something to do with Harbinger but who knows if thats true or not.

[recentio]

Pottumuusi wrote...

Pobatti wrote...

Pottumuusi wrote...

It's pretty stupid to think that the Normandy crew could colonize a planet.
You need at least 50 people to properly sustain a gene pool or else you will get a planet full of inbreds that will die because they were born with their arm through their heart.

Not strictly true. You see, one of the Normandy crew was Liara, an Asari.

They procreate using their own genetic data every time. The 'father' is only used to randomise the genetic data, and could be anyone or thing. This means that Liara could have children with each and every member of the crew (including any other female survivors). If there's any native life-form on the planet, these could be drawn into the mix as well.

Oh yes, I forgot about that. I guess the deus ex plot armor prevails forever.

Still, no humans.

How is that plot armor? Liara's fate as a colony broodmother is much worse than death. Those who dislike her should be partying in the streets. She'll have consecutive pregnancies for 100's of years... 

[Tric]

Draconis6666 wrote...

There is absolutly no evidence that Asari can even be inbreed in the first place. All Asari are born from their mother's genes alone, both genes used in conception come from the mother, one is altered through the melding but the genetic material is still all coming from one place. The "father" DNA is simply used as a map to randomize the second gene but no genetic material is actualy taken from the father. So with that in mind its impossible to say if Asari even can be Inbreeds.

Isn't that the idea behind the attitude towards purebloods though? Somehow reproducing with other asari reduces the variebility of the second gene which can cause genetic conditions like the ardat-yakshi?

[Draconis6666]

SomethingSome wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

There is absolutly no evidence that Asari can even be inbreed in the first place. All Asari are born from their mother's genes alone, both genes used in conception come from the mother, one is altered through the melding but the genetic material is still all coming from one place. The "father" DNA is simply used as a map to randomize the second gene but no genetic material is actualy taken from the father. So with that in mind its impossible to say if Asari even can be Inbreeds.

Isn't that the idea behind the attitude towards purebloods though? Somehow reproducing with other asari reduces the variebility of the second gene which can cause genetic conditions like the ardat-yakshi?

Yes but is that true or not who can say, obviously they managed to cultivate a civilzation for thousands of years relying on only mating with other asari. So even if it is true its nowhere near the level of inbreeding in its ability to keep you from sustaining a population.

[Tric]

Draconis6666 wrote...

Yes but is that true or not who can say, obviously they managed to cultivate a civilzation for thousands of years relying on only mating with other asari. So even if it is true its nowhere near the level of inbreeding in its ability to keep you from sustaining a population.

According to Mordin humans are actually the most varied in terms of phenotype and probably genotype so it is possible that the asari have already eliminated most non-beneficial genetic conditions from their genepool.

Not sure if it's a very nice ending for her though, and I don't even like Liara much.

[Not the Droid]

Heh kinda makes you wonder did they have a plan to fight the reaper's. Cause if blowing the relays was it..... How in the heck do you convince other races to send there fleets to a system there doomed to be in if it did not hold a planet type that could support em.

Hell it has to be done but that makes it even worse knowing your fleet will die on its feet or starve

[Pobatti]

Draconis6666 wrote...

SomethingSome wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

There is absolutly no evidence that Asari can even be inbreed in the first place. All Asari are born from their mother's genes alone, both genes used in conception come from the mother, one is altered through the melding but the genetic material is still all coming from one place. The "father" DNA is simply used as a map to randomize the second gene but no genetic material is actualy taken from the father. So with that in mind its impossible to say if Asari even can be Inbreeds.

Isn't that the idea behind the attitude towards purebloods though? Somehow reproducing with other asari reduces the variebility of the second gene which can cause genetic conditions like the ardat-yakshi?

Yes but is that true or not who can say, obviously they managed to cultivate a civilzation for thousands of years relying on only mating with other asari. So even if it is true its nowhere near the level of inbreeding in its ability to keep you from sustaining a population.

On top of that, Asari can live over 1000 years meaning you could have a grandfather and granddaughter exist a minimal number of generations after the original Normandy crew, that's still distant enough in the future for the Normandy to be a mere legend only the elders remember.

It would be a nice touch if (for those of you who like Liara) the grandfather was Matriarch Liara, still alive to tell the tale.

Modifié par Pobatti, 03 mars 2012 - 09:03 .

[MythicLegands]

gearseffect wrote...

Well How come Joker all of a sudden losses his nerve and faith in Shepard and attempts to leave like a scared B!tch? That don't sound like the Joker I know, heck NO! Joker was always there to pull OUR Virtual Shepard @ss out of sh!t. Now all of a sudden Joker is gonna run away? WTF? Why? WHY is he not near US?!

It was Jokers plan all along, to kill shepard take his/her women along with his sexbot, and live on a utopian world were he is king.

[xtorma]

Pobatti wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

SomethingSome wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

There is absolutly no evidence that Asari can even be inbreed in the first place. All Asari are born from their mother's genes alone, both genes used in conception come from the mother, one is altered through the melding but the genetic material is still all coming from one place. The "father" DNA is simply used as a map to randomize the second gene but no genetic material is actualy taken from the father. So with that in mind its impossible to say if Asari even can be Inbreeds.

Isn't that the idea behind the attitude towards purebloods though? Somehow reproducing with other asari reduces the variebility of the second gene which can cause genetic conditions like the ardat-yakshi?

Yes but is that true or not who can say, obviously they managed to cultivate a civilzation for thousands of years relying on only mating with other asari. So even if it is true its nowhere near the level of inbreeding in its ability to keep you from sustaining a population.

On top of that, Asari can live over 1000 years meaning you could have a grandfather and granddaughter exist a minimal number of generations after the original Normandy crew, that's still distant enough in the future for the Normandy to be a mere legend only the elders remember.

the thing about head cannon , is everyone does it and everyone is right, in thier own head

[Draconis6666]

Pobatti wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

SomethingSome wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

There is absolutly no evidence that Asari can even be inbreed in the first place. All Asari are born from their mother's genes alone, both genes used in conception come from the mother, one is altered through the melding but the genetic material is still all coming from one place. The "father" DNA is simply used as a map to randomize the second gene but no genetic material is actualy taken from the father. So with that in mind its impossible to say if Asari even can be Inbreeds.

Isn't that the idea behind the attitude towards purebloods though? Somehow reproducing with other asari reduces the variebility of the second gene which can cause genetic conditions like the ardat-yakshi?

Yes but is that true or not who can say, obviously they managed to cultivate a civilzation for thousands of years relying on only mating with other asari. So even if it is true its nowhere near the level of inbreeding in its ability to keep you from sustaining a population.

On top of that, Asari can live over 1000 years meaning you could have a grandfather and granddaughter exist a minimal number of generations after the original Normandy crew, that's still distant enough in the future for the Normandy to be a mere legend only the elders remember.

Yes and Liara herself is still in her maiden stage with nearly 250 years before her matron stage.

Modifié par Draconis6666, 03 mars 2012 - 09:04 .

[IanPolaris]

Kmead15 wrote...

Dariustwinblade wrote...

You know as much as inbreeding causes higher chances of deformed childrens. Its also has an equally higher chance of producing as prodigious children. Depending on the genelogy of the parents.


Those children can be deformed mutants or prodigal geniuses. Both are equally viable.

Not so!

From MassEffectWiki:
"Most human governments offer free assessment and correction therapies to its citizens, which has nearly eliminated genetic diseases from the human gene pool. All Alliance soldiers receive gene therapy -- provided by MarsGene -- upon enrolling, though most genetic therapies take years to come into their full effect."

Since inbreeding mostly just increases the odds of getting homozygotes, you mostly run into issues when deleterious alleles exist in the population. If those are gone from the genepool in normal humans, they'd be even less likely to be present in humans who have, to a man, had genetic therapy. So deformed mutants is actually less likely, at least until new mutations start cropping up in the genome.

Yes, but simple exposure to background radiatiom will create new deleterious alleles over time.  Even the protheans realized this (see Vigil at the end of ME1 when he said the researchers there realized that the Protheans were doomed because too few Protheans were left for needed genetic diversity.  Remember that the crew of the Normandy is stranded from modern galactic civilization and will lose their tech within a generation at best.

It's not a kind fate.  Honestly, simply ending it with a gun to the head has a certain appeal in such a case.

-Polaris

[Draconis6666]

SomethingSome wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

Yes but is that true or not who can say, obviously they managed to cultivate a civilzation for thousands of years relying on only mating with other asari. So even if it is true its nowhere near the level of inbreeding in its ability to keep you from sustaining a population.

According to Mordin humans are actually the most varied in terms of phenotype and probably genotype so it is possible that the asari have already eliminated most non-beneficial genetic conditions from their genepool.

Not sure if it's a very nice ending for her though, and I don't even like Liara much.

The wording of the codex entry implies that the Asari are capable of controling the shaping of the second gene in some way or another. As it states they have the ability to pass on desireable traits from the fathers genetic heritage. Which would make it likely that the Asari would have eliminated most negative traits and aspects from their own gene pool's during the thousands of years they were forced to reproduce only with themselves. The ardat Yakshi condition is likely a holdover trait because it is something that is present in the mother so the other parent's genetics do not matter. It is samara's fault tha ther children are ardat yakshi, not her mates.

So if Liara has no genetic abnormalities herself such as that she would not pass any on to her first daughters nor would they pass any on to their daughters etc.

[Pottumuusi]

This might actually be a happy ending if they land on a dextro planet.

[AllThatJazz]

 I also think many are underestimating the surviving Normandy crew. At the very least, liara makes it to the planet. Probably Chakwas? possibly EDI, and I don't know about the status of Miranda (please don't tell me, I don't want everything spoiled before March 9th). Not to mention Tali, a technological savant even by Quarian standards. That's some of the brightest minds in the galaxy. I wouldn't bet against them being able to restore some non-flight related power to the Normandy pretty quickly, and they'll certainly be able to salvage a lot of tech and resources. Presumably (in fact definitely if they're my Shep's crew) one of their first priorities is (assuming the planet is levo) finding a way to keep Team Dextro alive once the Normandy's surviving food stores have run out. Once that's done, they can get on with the harder task of researching ways to prevent genetic stagnation over the course of the next few centuries. Easy!  Okay maybe not that easy, but surely not outside the realms of science fiction possibility?

It isn't as though they're plunged straight back into the dark ages with no tech, no medicine, no knowledge, no firepower, doomed to eventually turn into the Gernsback crew. If, say, a group of us BSN'ers were to be stranded on some planet somewhere then, yes, many of us would probably stumble about hysterically, getting eaten by local wildlife . I'd have a little more faith in a crew of trained and armed professionals who (possibly, anyway) have an AI on their side ... 

[Legendaryred]

Luls, I'm sure breeding is the last concern for the crew on the normandy. Only cows can survive on grass and even they need 3 stomachs.