273 réponses à ce sujet

[Redzephyr]

Read the books. Skip Deception.

[TwistedComplex]

Because Bioware choices

[Redzephyr]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Redzephyr wrote...

Read the books. Skip Deception.

The books don't explain anything.

If you think about a certain plot, and compare the organisation's past history for glaring, horrible failures resulting in terrible things for their operatives, it offers a pretty good idea of what's happened.

[saracen16]

Grimez7 wrote...

I have a feeling that TIM is indoctrinated. Look at his eyes, he is probably sitting inside a reaper or next to one for all we know.

If that's the case, then Miranda, who was with him in the intro of ME2, is also indoctrinated.

[Eumerin]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Yeah, and if TIM is such an idiot how did he survive this long? Explain that one to me.

You mean the guy who funded a team to study a dead Reaper and didn't warn them about Indoctrination?  That TIM?

Saren wasn't stupid.  But he got caught.  TIM isn't stupid.  But he's even more reckless than Saren was.  There's no doubt in my mind that he got caught.  And just like Saren, he's arrogant enough to think that he's still resisting the Indoctrination.

If that's the case, then Miranda, who was with him in the intro of ME2, is also indoctrinated.

Maybe, maybe not.  It would depend on how, when, and where TIM was indoctrinated.  Miranda's talents make her valuable enough to frequently send off across the galaxy (for instance, she was head of the project to revive our hero), so it's likely that she's still Indoctrination-free.

Modifié par Eumerin, 03 mars 2012 - 05:44 .

[saracen16]

What is wrong with Cerberus? Why act so surprised? Cerberus was bad news from the start. Many reasons I can think of...

1. They're a radical pro-human survivalist lynch mob and black ops group that will do whatever it takes to make humanity rise above the rest all over the galaxy. They've conducted countless terrorist operations against innocent humans and aliens for their own agenda. Admiral Kahoku, the quarians of the Idenna, the colonists on Chasca, Nepmos, Akuze... to name a few.

2. Fascism best describes their ideology. They believe that the ends justifies the means, and will go to great lengths to make human the dominant species in the galaxy, even if it means experimenting with human biotics (to the point of torturing them), rachni, Thorian creepers, and husks... which leads me to...

3. Experimenting with Reaper technology on several occasions (Paul Grayson, the Adjutant crisis, [the remains of] the Collector Base, etc.), which has bound to have gotten a big lot of them indoctrinated towards the Reaper cause.

Even though Grimez7's argument about TIM has a slight error, he has a point. It makes you wonder: were Cerberus really agents of the Reapers posed as enemies or traitors and wolves dressed in turncoats and sheep's clothing?

[MageCeridan]

2 possibilities:

1: They are pissed at Shepard that he destroyed the [FINAL DUNGEON OF ME2]

2: They are mindslaves of the Reapers because the Illusive man was an idiot and toyed with a Reaper artifact... again.

[saracen16]

Saphra Deden wrote...

DJBare wrote...

but I'm pretty sure the alliance was never involved in torturing children,

You're wrong. Ask Kaidan sometime.

That wasn't Alliance. That was Conatix, a private firm that was hired to test exposures to eezo. They hired the turians who did the real beating. They didn't know what Vyrrnus was made of.

[saracen16]

MageCeridan wrote...

2 possibilities:

1: They are pissed at Shepard that he destroyed the [FINAL DUNGEON OF ME2]

2: They are mindslaves of the Reapers because the Illusive man was an idiot and toyed with a Reaper artifact... again.

Indeed. The Illusive Man is a man, a human being. Sure, he was intelligent for a human, but he overestimated himself in being resistant to indoctrination.

[Zkyire]

Renegade133 wrote...

WTF is wrong with cerberus ?

Nothing.. everything.

Modifié par Zkyire, 03 mars 2012 - 05:52 .

[Redzephyr]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Redzephyr wrote...

If you think about a certain plot, and compare the organisation's past history for glaring, horrible failures resulting in terrible things for their operatives, it offers a pretty good idea of what's happened.

No, it really doesn't. It doesn't because you are grossly exaggerating their history and track record.

If they were this stupid they'd have been wiped out long ago.

Seriously? Yeah, let's just send a bunch of folks into this derelict Reaper. What's the worst that could happen?

What's that? They got indoctrinated? Oh, my, I guess I must have forgotten to hit send on that warning memo. Whoops.

Cerberus has a long history of aggressive, arrogant, reckless tactics and experiments, and The Illusive Man has demonstrated time and again that he is willing to accept catastrophic losses in capital and personnel in the pursuit of experiments that tend to be dubious ideas at best and are often outright bad.

Think back to the events of Retribution. Think back to Cerberus' given track record. Play the demo and ask yourself why the Nemesis and Phantom units seem a little bit less than human.

Maybe -- just maybe -- another terrible experiment went wrong.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Redzephyr wrote...

If you think about a certain plot, and compare the organisation's past history for glaring, horrible failures resulting in terrible things for their operatives, it offers a pretty good idea of what's happened.

No, it really doesn't. It doesn't because you are grossly exaggerating their history and track record.

If they were this stupid they'd have been wiped out long ago.

Video game....

[saracen16]

Saphra Deden wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

That wasn't Alliance. That was Conatix, a private firm that was hired to test exposures to eezo.

Yeah, hired by the Alliance.

You hire a pest controller who stinks up your house and ends up killing ZERO bugs. Did you know that he would do that to begin with?

[MageCeridan]

saracen16 wrote...

MageCeridan wrote...

2 possibilities:

1: They are pissed at Shepard that he destroyed the [FINAL DUNGEON OF ME2]

2: They are mindslaves of the Reapers because the Illusive man was an idiot and toyed with a Reaper artifact... again.

Indeed. The Illusive Man is a man, a human being. Sure, he was intelligent for a human, but he overestimated himself in being resistant to indoctrination.

Either that, or we will have a mission to save him from his own troops because he got imprisonned by indoctrinated Cerberus operatives... ummm

Or we will finally enter his forteress of solitude and kill him...

Or we will learn that he's Shepard's father's mother's uncle's first roommate.

[saracen16]

Saphra Deden wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

You hire a pest controller who stinks up your house and ends up killing ZERO bugs.

That's not what happened.

The Alliance was responsible for these people too.

This would be like me hiring a pest controller to cleanse your house. Then they do a bad job and you find out I never actually looked at their credentials.

That doesn't make you responsible for what the pest controller did to my house, but only responsible for bringing him there.

[TobiTobsen]

AlexXIV wrote...

Grimez7 wrote...

I have a feeling that TIM is indoctrinated. Look at his eyes, he is probably sitting inside a reaper or next to one for all we know.

He probably gets indoctrinated at some point in ME3. Notice when Shepard questioned the Cerberus soldier in the demo? It was as if the he was going to say something before he died. Reminded me of Saren somehow. I think he was indoctrinated at this point. And who knows how many in Cerberus are.

The soldiers coughing actually sounded a bit mechanical, if you ask me. Probably a Cerberus husk under all that armor. But that's just my crazy theory

[Redzephyr]

Saphra Deden wrote...
There plenty of bad things that can happen, but Cerberus had no choice. They needed that IFF and once again, I seriously doubt you or anyone else has thought about this as much as I have.

Were they on a time limit? Yes.

Would they have been sent anyway even if the IFF wasn't required? You better believe it.

Have artifacts found in the past (which aren't even, presumably, part of a Reaper dead or alive) demonstrated time and again that they are capable of warping the mind? Yup.

The fact of the matter is that TIM doesn't care about his people. They are expendable, and their purpose is to further his goals through clumsy, haphazard scientific dabbling in anything and everything that might be useful. If they can produce some results before things go wrong, that's just perfect. If not, they were already written off in the budget, and he'll find another place to try again if given the chance.

The thing worthy of note is that he's self-assured enough to think that there's no way for this to come and bite him personally in the ass. The entire structure of the organisation is built around this, and it's solid in theory but not necessarily in practice. Just because it's mostly worked so far doesn't mean it will always work.