95 réponses à ce sujet

[Aesieru]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Flagta wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Flagta wrote...

evil-pineapples wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

They aren't evil.

If you're talking about the geth and ME3, I believe they are reprogrammed into being hostile. It isn't voluntary, unless I'm mistaken. Legion is one of the few docile geth in the game.

Here lie ending spoilers - you have been warned.

The purpose of the Reapers is to prevent organic life from creating synthetic life that out-evolves them. This phenomenon, known as 'tech singularity', is considered inherently dangerous by the Reapers.

And there you have it. The creators of the Reapers thought that synthetics would go
hostile at some point; it's what they think and not an actual fact.

Project Overlord

VI Outbreak

Luna - Hannibal AI

Geth Initial

Geth Heretics

Prothean AI Rebellion

The list goes on and on and on...

I could list all the wars organics started too, wouldn't change the point that they can either be evil or good.

This isn't about Wars...

These are each incidents that had they not been stopped, they would have overrun the entirety of their opposing creators, and then expanded to the point of run-away intelligences that devoured the entire galaxy over a period of thousands upon thousands of years and left nothing left in their pursuit of growth and expansion.

A war is intended to leave one side remaining, the AI's are meant to grow and expand with no checks and balances.

Well, besides the VI outbreak (which was limited to a single source and wasn't even an AI crisis), the Geth Rebellion (which wasn't stopped), the Luna-Hannibal AI (which was limited to a testing facility).

So, besides half your list.

The VI outbreak was actually infecting anything it came into contact with.

The Hannibal AI was something that was an example and had it not been limited to its own servers it would have expanded, the fact it didn't doesn't negate its potential.

And the Geth Rebellion are still expanding just in the shadows unknown to others which is more dangerous than if we actually knew they were doing it. Shephard is now the only one to know.

[Frostmourne86]

whose to say that someone couldn't write in immutable code constraints on an AI's behavior? Are the civilizations in ME so stupid that they can't ensure that expansion can't happen?

[curly haired boy]

i don't believe any of the BS the reapers say. i say **** them, **** their fears, **** their philosphy, and **** their plans.

the reapers feared that future species couldn't handle future threats. theirs is a pessimistic point of view, and they've imposed it on the galaxy for eons.

time to end that. time to forge a new destiny. i entrust the future to those living there, and i'm sure they'll have the capability to deal with whatever comes up.

[Aesieru]

Frostmourne86 wrote...

whose to say that someone couldn't write in immutable code constraints on an AI's behavior? Are the civilizations in ME so stupid that they can't ensure that expansion can't happen?

iRobot showed that it was possible to overcome the Three Laws of Robotics.

[Melgrimm]

Obro wrote...


We Reapers love Organic Life, so we will become Inorganic Life in Order to Destroy Organic Life so that Organic Life doesn’t create Inorganic Life that destroys Organic Life. 

that is ...stupid on so many levels that I just ..

The difference is between destroying -some- organic life and desstroying -all- organic life.  The threat that the Reaper's creators built the Reapers to face is the destruction of -all- organic life by AI that has no practical limitations, unlike the Reapers who seem to be controlled by certain programming.

Its utilitarian thinking like this that often causes the heinous evils of the universe.

[xsdob]

evil-pineapples wrote...

I don't agree that tech singularity would be inherently dangerous though. Like
I said, I think the Reapers (and their creators, of course, by extension) are simply afraid and acting irrationally.

I think it's the reapers that are afraid of a tech  singularity because the tech will out evolve them. They think organic life will create something that is better than them and thus make them no longer the pinicale of evolution.

In essence, they are self-preservating by destroying the creatures neccisary to creating their betters. It also explains soverigns disdain for the geth, as the reapers would view them as a too close for comfrot danger, thus why indoctrination was used.

[Spiratic]

Aesieru wrote...

Frostmourne86 wrote...

whose to say that someone couldn't write in immutable code constraints on an AI's behavior? Are the civilizations in ME so stupid that they can't ensure that expansion can't happen?

iRobot showed that it was possible to overcome the Three Laws of Robotics.

iRobot actually showed the inevitable evolution of the three laws, not the overcoming of them. Those three laws in reality and fiction are more dangerous then synthetic life itself in theory. 

[IElitePredatorI]

Tazzmission posted this in a different thread, I would advise you not to watch it if you dont want your ending spoiled but it answers the thread topic:

Modifié par IElitePredatorI, 04 mars 2012 - 09:04 .

[Dannybare]

Obro wrote...

The sovereign mentions he left the mass relays so they follow the path he wanted
which means he wants other races to evolve into a set pattern that would bring about the said development of AI

but in ME3, reapers say they have always been trying to stop other races from making AI that would outevolve them so ... god damn it BioWare

Maybe they reasoned that if they set organic life on the path they want it would be easier to control.

[Dean_the_Young]

Aesieru wrote...

The VI outbreak was actually infecting anything it came into contact with.

No it wasn't.

Overlord infected all synthetics, but the VI outbreaks was just from mechs from a specific factory.

The Hannibal AI was something that was an example and had it not been limited to its own servers it would have expanded, the fact it didn't doesn't negate its potential.

Being limited to its own serves does just that. It means it couldn't get out.

And the Geth Rebellion are still expanding just in the shadows unknown to others which is more dangerous than if we actually knew they were doing it. Shephard is now the only one to know.

The Geth Rebellion ended three hundred years ago with the Geth isolating themselves behind the Perseus Veil. They did not break their self-imposed isolation until Nazara convinced the Heretics.

The Geth fought only their Creators. They did not attempt to destroy others, and were not stopped by outside forces.

[Aesieru]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

The VI outbreak was actually infecting anything it came into contact with.

No it wasn't.

Overlord infected all synthetics, but the VI outbreaks was just from mechs from a specific factory.

The Hannibal AI was something that was an example and had it not been limited to its own servers it would have expanded, the fact it didn't doesn't negate its potential.

Being limited to its own serves does just that. It means it couldn't get out.

And the Geth Rebellion are still expanding just in the shadows unknown to others which is more dangerous than if we actually knew they were doing it. Shephard is now the only one to know.

The Geth Rebellion ended three hundred years ago with the Geth isolating themselves behind the Perseus Veil. They did not break their self-imposed isolation until Nazara convinced the Heretics.

The Geth fought only their Creators. They did not attempt to destroy others, and were not stopped by outside forces.

And a computer that was also infected by it that then sent those ships to otherplaces.

The Jarrahe Station.

---

The Geth are building a dyson sphere so they can become more advanced in secret. Who knows what they'll decide after they become even more hyper-intelligent.

Modifié par Aesieru, 04 mars 2012 - 09:33 .

[xtorma]

not evil...uncaring.

emotion is what keeps us in check. we feel sorry for the whales so we do what we can to save them. its an emotional response. the world would chug along fine without them. Machines that have not developed emotion would not give a whale a second glance, they would see it as X amount of resources, or as consuming x amount of resources that they could use better.

Bye Bye shamu

See aeis...i get it now

Modifié par xtorma, 04 mars 2012 - 09:49 .

[Big I]

Aesieru wrote...
And a computer that was also infected by it that then sent those ships to otherplaces.

The Jarrahe Station.

---

The Geth are building a dyson sphere so they can become more advanced in secret. Who knows what they'll decide after they become even more hyper-intelligent.

Your implication is that they'll turn hostile. It's equally possible they'll continue their three hundred year policy of isolation, or leave the galaxy, or literally anything else. There's no proof of what an essentially omnipotent AI would do one way or the other.

[Big I]

xtorma wrote...
not evil...uncaring.

emotion is what keeps us in check. we feel sorry for the whales so we do what we can to save them. its an emotional response. the world would chug along fine without them. Machines that have not developed emotion would not give a whale a second glance, they would see it as X amount of resources, or as consuming x amount of resources that they could use better.

Bye Bye shamu

See aeis...i get it now

Firstly, ME AIs have emotions. Legion likes Shepard, and feels so bad for Eden Prime colonists he contributed to a charity for them. EDI explicitly has romantic feelings for Joker and hatred for TIM. If you're worrried about AIs being unemotional, don't.


Secondly, even if you were right there's a huge difference between no caring about something and trying to destroy it. I care absolutely nothing about dogs. Does that mean I'm likely to try and kill all dogs? No.

[Juniper Mucius]

Is this still being argued? Can someone tell me where the the game tells you that Synthetics are evil? A crazy ancient people believe that. If anything, BioWare has given proof they are *wrong*. EDI has shown utter loyalty to Shepard. She called everyone "her crew". The geth are also rebuikding their creator's homeworld. Legion respects Shepard.

This sounds like the story of paranoid organics, fearful of what "might be".

[Aesieru]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

xtorma wrote...
not evil...uncaring.

emotion is what keeps us in check. we feel sorry for the whales so we do what we can to save them. its an emotional response. the world would chug along fine without them. Machines that have not developed emotion would not give a whale a second glance, they would see it as X amount of resources, or as consuming x amount of resources that they could use better.

Bye Bye shamu

See aeis...i get it now

Firstly, ME AIs have emotions. Legion likes Shepard, and feels so bad for Eden Prime colonists he contributed to a charity for them. EDI explicitly has romantic feelings for Joker and hatred for TIM. If you're worrried about AIs being unemotional, don't.


Secondly, even if you were right there's a huge difference between no caring about something and trying to destroy it. I care absolutely nothing about dogs. Does that mean I'm likely to try and kill all dogs? No.

I love dogs, poor dogs abused by you.


Legion couldn't understand the Quarians though, he failed utterly with the lowest score in the simulator.

[xtorma]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

xtorma wrote...
not evil...uncaring.

emotion is what keeps us in check. we feel sorry for the whales so we do what we can to save them. its an emotional response. the world would chug along fine without them. Machines that have not developed emotion would not give a whale a second glance, they would see it as X amount of resources, or as consuming x amount of resources that they could use better.

Bye Bye shamu

See aeis...i get it now

Firstly, ME AIs have emotions. Legion likes Shepard, and feels so bad for Eden Prime colonists he contributed to a charity for them. EDI explicitly has romantic feelings for Joker and hatred for TIM. If you're worrried about AIs being unemotional, don't.


Secondly, even if you were right there's a huge difference between no caring about something and trying to destroy it. I care absolutely nothing about dogs. Does that mean I'm likely to try and kill all dogs? No.

If a dog was getting into your henhouse and eating your chickens, you'd kill it. if you are using up an ai's resources , and he as concluded he can use them better, you are one dead dog.

[Vengeful Nature]

Hasn't the idea of the technological singularity been largely discredited? Like, it's just another one of those "flying car" ideas that seems ridiculous a few decades after it's been thought up?

[RogueBot]

 Not all synthetic life is destined to destroy organic life... that's just what the Reapers think will happen, not what actually will happen.

It's just their reason to go on a killing spree every 50,000 years. No one ever said it made sense, other than the Reapers, of course. 

[Aesieru]

RogueBot wrote...

 Not all synthetic life is destined to destroy organic life... that's just what the Reapers think will happen, not what actually will happen.

It's just their reason to go on a killing spree every 50,000 years. No one ever said it made sense, other than the Reapers, of course. 

and those that made them probably because they saw it happening and thus established a precedent.

[RogueBot]

Aesieru wrote...

RogueBot wrote...

 Not all synthetic life is destined to destroy organic life... that's just what the Reapers think will happen, not what actually will happen.

It's just their reason to go on a killing spree every 50,000 years. No one ever said it made sense, other than the Reapers, of course. 

and those that made them probably because they saw it happening and thus established a precedent.

Yeah, some really bad **** would have to go down for anyone to think going to those lengths was necessary. Hopefully Bioware expands on this through books or something. 
 

[xtorma]

RogueBot wrote...

 Not all synthetic life is destined to destroy organic life... that's just what the Reapers think will happen, not what actually will happen.

It's just their reason to go on a killing spree every 50,000 years. No one ever said it made sense, other than the Reapers, of course. 

The writers say it's inevitable if organic life is left unchecked. As has been explained, they have eluded to this for quite some time through the other games. Ai will advance to the point where they no longer see us as more than insects. they may not go out of their way to destroy us, but they will eventually see us the same way we see aphids in our garden.

I don't go out of my way to kill an ant, but if I step on one in my day to day, im not going to get broken up about it.

[RogueBot]

xtorma wrote...

RogueBot wrote...

 Not all synthetic life is destined to destroy organic life... that's just what the Reapers think will happen, not what actually will happen.

It's just their reason to go on a killing spree every 50,000 years. No one ever said it made sense, other than the Reapers, of course. 

The writers say it's inevitable if organic life is left unchecked. As has been explained, they have eluded to this for quite some time through the other games. Ai will advance to the point where they no longer see us as more than insects. they may not go out of their way to destroy us, but they will eventually see us the same way we see aphids in our garden.

I don't go out of my way to kill an ant, but if I step on one in my day to day, im not going to get broken up about it.

To quote Commander Shepard from ME1, "I don't see that as inevitable."

I accept Bioware's explanation of the Reaper's motives, but still think the Reapers are bat**** crazy. My experience with Legion in ME2 really left me hopeful about the situation between the Geth and the Quarians. Maybe ME3 will change my outlook towards synthetics.

[Dean_the_Young]

Aesieru wrote...

And a computer that was also infected by it that then sent those ships to otherplaces.

The Jarrahe Station.

And yet the VI's only carried the errors in their own programming to where they were shipped and installed, not hijacking other systems in-process.

The corrupted VI's were a danger because of what they were capable of when unknowingly installed elsewhere, not because they hijacked other systems in an infection-rewrite campaign that could have turned all the galaxy ablaze.

In fact, there's nothing to suggest any sort of deliberate or malevolent design in the incident, let alone intelligence.

The Geth are building a dyson sphere so they can become more advanced in secret. Who knows what they'll decide after they become even more hyper-intelligent.

This is a non-falsifiable claim on future actions. I could make the same about anything in the future.

It is not, however, the Geth Rebellions, and it does not show any synthetic intent to do harm. Nor does it show any

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 04 mars 2012 - 10:24 .

[Aesieru]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

And a computer that was also infected by it that then sent those ships to otherplaces.

The Jarrahe Station.

And yet the VI's only carried the errors in their own programming to where they were shipped and installed, not hijacking other systems in-process.

The Geth are building a dyson sphere so they can become more advanced in secret. Who knows what they'll decide after they become even more hyper-intelligent.

This is a non-falsifiable claim on future actions. I could make the same about anything in the future.

It is not, however, the Geth Rebellions, and it does not show any synthetic intent to do harm.

Those broken robots somehow infected a VI which killed everyone in an attempt to not be shut down.