223 réponses à ce sujet

[Caldain]

There's no payoff? Saving the whole galaxy and all organic life from a synthetic race that systematically harvests us every 50,000 years is not enough for you?

[RedPhoenix 96]

GBGriffin wrote...

RedPhoenix 96 wrote...

for everyone complaining about ME3 having zero replayability remember in ME1 where no matter what you had to kill soverign i dont see much choice there aside from whether saving the destiny ascension and who takes the seat on the council. I believe that everyone should experience the game till the very end before judging it

First, you listed choices that resulted in different canonical endings fot the game. Second, ME1, by allowing you to do this, really set the stage, with BioWare egging us on, that choices you made mattered, and ME2 improved on this before 3 set it all back to square one.

The point was that it was all supposed to be building toward something, and all it ends with is: WHat color do you like, and who will be on your Normandy?

i just think there's more to it than this i mean i dont think Bioware would just end it all like that after all the time we spent building up our shepards

[GBGriffin]

RedPhoenix 96 wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

RedPhoenix 96 wrote...

for everyone complaining about ME3 having zero replayability remember in ME1 where no matter what you had to kill soverign i dont see much choice there aside from whether saving the destiny ascension and who takes the seat on the council. I believe that everyone should experience the game till the very end before judging it

First, you listed choices that resulted in different canonical endings fot the game. Second, ME1, by allowing you to do this, really set the stage, with BioWare egging us on, that choices you made mattered, and ME2 improved on this before 3 set it all back to square one.

The point was that it was all supposed to be building toward something, and all it ends with is: WHat color do you like, and who will be on your Normandy?

i just think there's more to it than this i mean i dont think Bioware would just end it all like that after all the time we spent building up our shepards

Ladies and gentlemen, you've seen it before and you'll see it again: The "BioWare wouldn't 'do this'" defense!

As it stands now, the data says otherwise

[Ianamus]

Apophis2412 wrote...

 Two guestions to all the people who dodn't like the endings:

1. The endings might be bad but how does that make the whole gamebad and/or pointless?

2. Dragon Age Origins had bad endings, yet is considered a good game. What's the main difference between the DAO and Me3 Endings?

Dragon Age Origin's  gave you meaningful choices which led to endings ranging from depressing to Bittersweet, but left no cliffhangers, while still leaving the future open for interpretation. 

It is possible to get your happy endng, but you must make sacrifices. They do not force a depressing ending on you no matter how much you have prepared, and you are offered realistic and well-planned solutions. The one "strange and unusual" solution is done realistically and the the character is allowed to consider and discuss the moral implications at length (unlike Mass Effect where one particular ending makes no sense and can be accurately described as magical white light, and the implications do not seem to be discussed at all)

Whether or not you die or survive actually changes the ending drastically. One features your funeral, the other lets you speak to all those you know and wrap things up with them. You don't get what is essentially the same scene no matter what- It actually changes significantly. 

They all made sense- did not retcon the rest of the game and defeating the Archdemon was done the old fashioned way, an epic fight with the allies you had gathered, not with some Deus-ex machina from nowhere.

The characters got the endings they deserved, and you got to speak to them about what happened next. They didn't get stranded in nowhere with little explanation, or not included in the ending at all (like Garrus and Tali even when they are on Earth at the end)

The text-based epilogues let you know the outcomes of all your choices, while in Mass Effect 3 half of your chocies are rendered invalid by the ending and you have no clue what happens to anywhere that's not Earth or the strange planet the Normandy crashes on. 

Are those enough reasons?

Modifié par EJ107, 04 mars 2012 - 02:36 .

[keginkc]

I can't really get into this without actually experiencing the game's endings. I mean, it's kind of hard to actually tell how good or bad they may be just looking at stark data mined descriptions in a vacuum. There's generally a bit more to the equation than how something looks on paper. The thing I'm really looking for the most is emotional impact. If I get that, I'll be satisfied.

[Cobra's_back]

EJ107 wrote...

Apophis2412 wrote...

 Two guestions to all the people who dodn't like the endings:

1. The endings might be bad but how does that make the whole gamebad and/or pointless?

2. Dragon Age Origins had bad endings, yet is considered a good game. What's the main difference between the DAO and Me3 Endings?

Dragon Age Origin's  gave you meaningful choices which led to endings ranging from depressing to Bittersweet, but left no cliffhangers, while still leaving the future open for interpretation. 

It is possible to get your happy endng, but you must make sacrifices. They do not force a depressing ending on you no matter how much you have prepared, and you are offered realistic and well-planned solutions. The one "strange and unusual" solution is done realistically and the the character is allowed to consider and discuss the moral implications at length (unlike Mass Effect where one particular ending makes no sense and can be accurately described as magical white light, and the implications do not seem to be discussed at all)

Whether or not you die or survive actually changes the ending drastically. One features your funeral, the other lets you speak to all those you know and wrap things up with them. You don't get what is essentially the same scene no matter what- It actually changes significantly. 

They all made sense- did not retcon the rest of the game and defeating the Archdemon was done the old fashioned way, an epic fight with the allies you had gathered, not with some Deus-ex machina from nowhere.

The characters got the endings they deserved, and you got to speak to them about what happened next. They didn't get stranded in nowhere with little explanation, or not included in the ending at all (like Garrus and Tali even when they are on Earth at the end)

The text-based epilogues let you know the outcomes of all your choices, while in Mass Effect 3 half of your chocies are rendered invalid by the ending and you have no clue what happens to anywhere that's not Earth or the strange planet the Normandy crashes on. 

Are those enough reasons?

I agree.

[slimgrin]

Bad has no concrete meaning here. Properly resolved does. If bad means the Reapers get us all, as long as the writing is good, no matter then. I'm beginning to wonder why people insist the ending is so bad.

Modifié par slimgrin, 04 mars 2012 - 02:45 .

[the_one_54321]

Sad ending != bad ending.

Bad ending == bad ending.

Sad, happy, good, and bad are unrelated concepts.

[Ianamus]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Sad ending != bad ending.

Bad ending == bad ending.

Sad, happy, good, and bad are unrelated concepts.

badly written, poorly executed and lack of closure/effect of choices do == bad ending though, and that is what a lot of people think about the endings. 

Modifié par EJ107, 04 mars 2012 - 02:49 .

[the_one_54321]

EJ107 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
Sad ending != bad ending.

Bad ending == bad ending.

Sad, happy, good, and bad are unrelated concepts.

badly written, poorly executed and lack of closure/effect of choices do == bad ending though, and that is what a lot of people think about the endings.

No.
Maybe badly written, poorly executed == bad ending.

The other stuff is just a personal preference that all of the people complaining share.

And there is as of yet no strict evidence that the ending qualifies as badly written or poorly executed when taken within the context of the entire game. Could end up being that way. Absolutely no concrete way to say so until the game is actually being widely played and completed.

[Patriota125]

the_one_54321 wrote...
No.
Maybe badly written, poorly executed == bad ending.

The other stuff is just a personal preference that all of the people complaining share.

And there is as of yet no strict evidence that the ending qualifies as badly written or poorly executed when taken within the context of the entire game. Could end up being that way. Absolutely no concrete way to say so until the game is actually being widely played and completed.

Mass Effect has never been badly written. I suggest you go and watch Twilight, you'll find everything you need with that series.

You probably don't even know what's the relation between bad writing and what you claim to be a bad ending (which is not). Bad writing would be Metal Gear, with all those retcons and shlt, good writing but bad execution (answers never explained) would be Lost, and good writing with brilliant execution and perfect resolution would be Mass effect.

[Corvus Metus]

Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut wrote...

I wonder how the BSN would react to Planescape: Torment.

Or the first Baldur's Gate, that doesn't even have a bloody ending.

A bad ending will not stop me from replaying ME3 a dozen times.  Why?  Because I love the series, the characters, and the gameplay of the third is top-notch based on the demo.   'sides, I did what all my Shepards set out to do.  Save the galaxy.  

[the_one_54321]

Patriota125 wrote...
Mass Effect has never been badly written. I suggest you go and watch Twilight, you'll find everything you need with that series.

Pffeheheheh.... really? Really??

ME is just on the other end of the spectrum from Twilight in terms of bad writing. Can be poignant. Can be entertaining. Can be very enjoyable. But is typically action cliche.

Even so, you missed my point entirely. There is no way to say that the ending of ME3 is badly written. No one talking about it has experienced it in context. The only ones that have are legally required not to say anything until the game launches.

[RogueWriter3201]

Apophis2412 wrote...

 Two guestions to all the people who dodn't like the endings:

1. The endings might be bad but how does that make the whole gamebad and/or pointless?

2. Dragon Age Origins had bad endings, yet is considered a good game. What's the main difference between the DAO and Me3 Endings?

This: 

That is all. 

[WizenSlinky0]

Patriota125 wrote..


Mass Effect has never been badly written. I suggest you go and watch Twilight, you'll find everything you need with that series.

You probably don't even know what's the relation between bad writing and what you claim to be a bad ending (which is not). Bad writing would be Metal Gear, with all those retcons and shlt, good writing but bad execution (answers never explained) would be Lost, and good writing with brilliant execution and perfect resolution would be Mass effect.

No offense but when your argument hinges on "there's something worse out there" it's a pretty weak argument. I'm not even saying Bioware's writing is bad. Just your argument.

But, to throw in my own opinion, there are some seriously bad gaps in the ME3 endings regardless. Whether they are bad design, bad choice, or bad writing is up to you.

[AkiKishi]

Caldain wrote...

There's no payoff? Saving the whole galaxy and all organic life from a synthetic race that systematically harvests us every 50,000 years is not enough for you?

In a game with a fixed ending that's fine. In a game with multiple endings it would be like the FFX-2 example but each ending being a variation of the "bad end".

Not really acceptable when they take many more hours of the players time.

As a player it's all fiction, I only care that my investment is rewarded.

[Dasher1010]

So, who's seen 300? Leonidas dies at the end of that. It's still awesome.

[AkiKishi]

Dasher1010 wrote...

So, who's seen 300? Leonidas dies at the end of that. It's still awesome.

It's similiar to LOTR the hero "dies" but they accomplish the mission. Would 300 have been as powerful had he died and the Persians still rampaged over Greece ? Not likely.

Frodo drops the ring into Mt Doom and ends up destroying Gondor, the army fighting outside of Mordor and leaving scorched earth to the boarders of the Shire ? Not very satisfying is it?

An ending where the hero cops out and saves themselves/friends over the greater good ? That would work, they would have to live with that choice. Tainting the legend, that's a long term consequence.

[Dark Specie]

Dasher1010 wrote...

So, who's seen 300? Leonidas dies at the end of that. It's still awesome.

That argument doesn't work for a game, pal. Books and movies are quite different from games. Especially roleplaying-games.

Modifié par Dark Specie, 04 mars 2012 - 02:19 .

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

Apophis2412 wrote...
Two guestions to all the people who dodn't like the endings:
1. The endings might be bad but how does that make the whole gamebad and/or pointless?
2. Dragon Age Origins had bad endings, yet is considered a good game. What's the main difference between the DAO and Me3 Endings?

For 1: It does say it was not an RPG after all. RPG does gives you some grip on your destiny, and not giving that chance to your players makes you a bad GM. Actually, you choosed just the good word: it makes your whole choices and actions "pointless". I can't understand why on such an important thing we cannot even be given a choice.
For 2: From what I heard, even the supposed "best" ending is a bad ending when in DA:O you could actually have good endings.

EDIT: And for 1, it also nukes why you should replay the game. Heck those endings are so bad there will be a DLC about it. Just mark my words.

Modifié par Kakita Tatsumaru, 04 mars 2012 - 02:30 .

[Johnny_Cheung]

so, is there any possible means to mine all the scripts and sort them all out to see the story goes? moreover, even for DA:O get all bitter ending there is still hope, and ME3 is not likely from what we know.

Not to whining, but if it is the way to wrap up the epic that we are expected, that would be very sad

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

Corvus Metus wrote...
'sides, I did what all my Shepards set out to do.  Save the galaxy.  

What about a Shepard which would not sacrifice himself. Actually I remember saying something like this in ME2 to Liara (or MI, I don't remember exactly): I don't fight to save the Galaxy, I fight to survive. That's what most living things does.

[salbi]

Dasher1010 wrote...

So, who's seen 300? Leonidas dies at the end of that. It's still awesome.

My problem is not that the ending is sad, it is because is quite bad.
I have no problem in dying, but i don't want my crew to continue to live a life in pain even after i'm dead.



And no, bad =/= sad. A lot of good endings are sad, the problem is this is not the case.

[Jog0907]

Dark Specie wrote...

Dasher1010 wrote...

So, who's seen 300? Leonidas dies at the end of that. It's still awesome.

That argument doesn't work for a game, pal. Books and movies are quite different from games. Especially roleplaying-games.

good point to bring forward, as a storytelling medium book, films and videogames are too different to compare.

The problem with the endings is that to me, it tries to be a good ending... for a book, but it doesnt goes enough into what a videogame allows you to do, that is, plenty of choices, "good" or bad.

In a videogame the destination is as important as the journey, and many people feel that the destination in this case is either forced or weird (suffering from a bad case of fridge horror), thus making the journey worthless since in a videogame (rpg mostly) the player is much more involved in the storytelling process than a book, where he is just a receptor instead of a "shaper".
If the destination feels that way why even involve yourself in it, or if you were already involved you feel pretty much f*****, and without the real choice you felt  you had when it came to the ending.

*also the comparisons to other endings from other franchises (as in being exactly the same thing), and some cheesy bits of story, or the necessity to ignore basic science in order to make some of the endings less horryfying are not helping things.

Modifié par Jog0907, 04 mars 2012 - 02:41 .