223 réponses à ce sujet

[jeinasindorei]

EJ107 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Sad ending != bad ending.

Bad ending == bad ending.

Sad, happy, good, and bad are unrelated concepts.

badly written, poorly executed and lack of closure/effect of choices do == bad ending though, and that is what a lot of people think about the endings. 

And 99% of those people haven't played the game or seen the story. Thus, their opinions are irrelevant.

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

Corvus Metus wrote...

Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut wrote...
I wonder how the BSN would react to Planescape: Torment.

Or the first Baldur's Gate, that doesn't even have a bloody ending.
A bad ending will not stop me from replaying ME3 a dozen times.  Why?  Because I love the series, the characters, and the gameplay of the third is top-notch based on the demo.   'sides, I did what all my Shepards set out to do.  Save the galaxy.  

Sigil isn't the kind of place where it's wise to have any hope. Not as bad as Ravenloft, but still... Actually the main character is (actually) kinda suicidal from some of his dialogues.
Baldur's gate bad ending happens each time you die and kinda looks like ME2 arrival bad ending in the form (and by the way dying is enough of a bad ending by itself in most RPG actually ^^).

[Billabong2011]

I'm sorry, DAO had bad endings? I never encountered them. There were SAD endings, but not bad ones - all made sense within the context of the DAO universe, all were justified depending on the player's choices. They were all extremely well-written endings, as any ending should be.

Why does a bad ending make a bad game? Because no matter how fantastic the rest of the series is, no matter how emotionally invested we can become with its characters and settings and lore, it will never rectify the inevitable conclusion you will always be working towards whenever you pick it up and experience it another time.

And yes, ME3's endings are pretty poor.

Modifié par Billabong2011, 04 mars 2012 - 03:00 .

[Smeffects]

Everyone playing since mass effect 1 knew the ending was not gona be "good" how ever you slice it. Perhaps there are better scenarios then others, but a threat from this size was not gona end good. Im pretty sure they took a page from SWrotj terrible ending. No ewoks dancing everywhere. Ending does not have to be perfect to be good.

[Billabong2011]

Smeffects wrote...

Everyone playing since mass effect 1 knew the ending was not gona be "good" how ever you slice it. Perhaps there are better scenarios then others, but a threat from this size was not gona end good. Im pretty sure they took a page from SWrotj terrible ending. No ewoks dancing everywhere. Ending does not have to be perfect to be good.

ME3's endings being 'tragic' is not what makes them poor. I'm sick of everyone insulting my intelligence by suggesting this is why I don't like the endings, because it couldn't be further from the truth. Tragedy is incredible when it is called for - and yes, ME3 pretty much called for the biggest tragedy of them all. The endings we have now, however, aren't tragic - they are contrived, poorly conceived, unjustified conclusions to a universe with depth that exceeds so one-dimensional a finale as the ones we have been presented.

[AkiKishi]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Sad ending != bad ending.

Bad ending == bad ending.

Sad, happy, good, and bad are unrelated concepts.

The bad ending in the FFX-2 example I posted is the fail ending. There is no fail ending in ME3, there was supposed to be, but it was cut.

Sad was sad for Yuna, but you still accomplished the mission, saved Spira and prevented what would have happened in the bad ending.

With ME3 lacking a "fail" ending and the endings being apocalyptic all around. That's not really what you could call a success on any meaningful level. It's bad writing/planning.

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

Smeffects wrote...
Everyone playing since mass effect 1 knew the ending was not gona be "good" how ever you slice it. Perhaps there are better scenarios then others, but a threat from this size was not gona end good. Im pretty sure they took a page from SWrotj terrible ending. No ewoks dancing everywhere. Ending does not have to be perfect to be good.

It's one of the basic GM rules: if you cannot imagine a way to the solution that the players will be willing to take instead of packing their stuff and quitting the table, stop being a GM.

[Cirreus]

Prior to learning about Mass Effect 3's endings, this is how I felt about ME1 , ME2 & potenially ME3 ...



After finding out about the endings, this is how I feel about the series ...



In a nut shell, this type of ending(s) has devalued my experiences, expectations & my prior investments. I look at copies of ME1 , ME2 , all the DLC & Collectors editions, toys, artbooks, etc.. & it's not worth as much as it was anymore. Before I've even spent a dime on ME3, EA/Bioware has has taken my previous invests (over $500 in the ME franchise) and almost made it worthless to me. I had taken off work & was planning to replay & perfect another ME1 & 2 run through this weekend for ME3 ... what's the point now ?

A bad ending turns the journey from a free wide open road, to gridlock. Well the journey sucks now.

Modifié par Cirreus, 04 mars 2012 - 03:23 .

[Grand Wazoo]

I was actually excited prior knowing the ending to replay the whole series all over again months after release but now that I know all my Shepard's will end up down the same tube it's just not worth it.

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

RPG:

ME3 endings:

[Cirreus]

Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...

RPG:

ME3 endings:

I thought about going that route (har har) with the pictures above, but I thought the single road was closer to the feeling of the games (they all bascily following a single path, but how it's precieved is the goal). But your points are spot on with "where to go, i shoulda brought a map" and "well sh*t, bleak & bleak"

[GBGriffin]

Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...

RPG:

ME3 endings:

The even more hilarious bit is that the bottom image contains the word "colour", as in "What colour would you ike for your ending?"

It's so fitting.

[Dean_the_Young]

Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...

RPG:

ME3 endings:

In case you missed the last decade or so by Bioware, Bioware RPGs have consistently been the lower picture. Though in all actuality, in Mass Effect it's been that Seboist picture, because every big decision in ME1 and ME2 (and DAO, and DA2) have provided only superficial differences to the ongoing story. Kill the Council or Save it has the same effect on story progression that the Rachni, the Feros colonists, and pretty much everything in ME2 had: none. The same story with the same missions and pretty much the same characters exists regardless.

ME3 is actually the most complex carryover-consequences RPG that Bioware has made in years. And by years, I mean 'possibly ever,' since even the great DAO 's 'complexity' was in epilogue slides, not content.

Epilogue slides like DAO might give the illusion of complexity, but they're no different than what you yourself can imagine as results. If anything, they are more simplified.

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
In case you missed the last decade or so by Bioware, Bioware RPGs have consistently been the lower picture.

You mean in the end you always ended up with bad endings? ^^ 

Though in all actuality, in Mass Effect it's been that Seboist picture, because every big decision in ME1 and ME2 (and DAO, and DA2) have provided only superficial differences to the ongoing story. Kill the Council or Save it has the same effect on story progression that the Rachni, the Feros colonists, and pretty much everything in ME2 had: none. The same story with the same missions and pretty much the same characters exists regardless.

That's why most people hoped for those decisions to have some use in ME3.
Besides, choices in DA:O greatly affect the endings, and DA2 is almost another setting anyway (that's just one more things which makes it a bad game, that's all. Should I really have to put ME3 at the same level? Does anyone wants a DA2 level ME3?).

ME3 is actually the most complex carryover-consequences RPG that Bioware has made in years. And by years, I mean 'possibly ever,' since even the great DAO 's 'complexity' was in epilogue slides, not content.
Epilogue slides like DAO might give the illusion of complexity, but they're no different than what you yourself can imagine as results. If anything, they are more simplified.

You know, if one having to rely on imagination to have a good ending to the story was the goal, then what's the point in making any more ME games after ME1?

Modifié par Kakita Tatsumaru, 04 mars 2012 - 05:33 .

[Turel11234]

Apophis2412 wrote...

 Two guestions to all the people who dodn't like the endings:

1. The endings might be bad but how does that make the whole gamebad and/or pointless?

2. Dragon Age Origins had bad endings, yet is considered a good game. What's the main difference between the DAO and Me3 Endings?

Lets compare a story to a rising tower.
An ending can either be it's crescendo that carries it to the top.
It can simply be meh.
And it can be and abomination that causes the entire construction to fall apart and collapse

[ElMuchu]

On contrary of ME3, DAO gives you the choice. There is a possibility for good ending. In addition, ME is made of 3 games, we like our shepard and at the end, we have no choice. It is a sad story. So why sending so many times on these 3 video games? If I want to hear sad story, I just have to switch on TV and watch the news....
I am not saying I want everyone and everything ending like a fairy tale but it would have been a reward to earlier fans to let them the possibility to have an ending when shepard ends happy with his/her LI

[Fairhammer]

Call me attention **** or whiner but I wished that I've never read the spoilers section.
I've canceled my preorder several minutes before and I can't still believe that there isn't even a semi-happy ending?
Don't misunderstood me. I knew, there will be losses. I knew, several systems will go down, trillions will die. But I wasn't prepared for this. I feel trolled, trolled for playing several time ME 1 and 2. Spending several 100 hours for all my playthroughs. Some of them hit the 50 + hour mark with completing every single side mission with only SLIGHT differences just to form my shepards personal destiny. When I've seen the trailers I thought "**** earth is going down. I hope the price won't be much bigger." And what happened? Shepard is scattered away somewhere like the whole Normandy + crew. I dreamed of an ending where nearly everything is destroyed but civilizations will recover... and Shepard is the leading Idol for everyone if he/she survived.
Instead we got this!

I think I am not the only one who has such a void feeling now about this game and this series.

Even final Fantasy X-2 had different endings with different outcomes.
If this game was merely a railroad game with no choices I probably wouldn't be as disappointed as I am now. I just wanted to make a new playthrough with some different choices with ME 3 in mind but now I will put that games into my shelf and probably never play them again... Not to mention that I've bought ME1 and 2 two times for xbox because of the original voice acting.
Yeah Bioware you were right "Not everyone will like the endings".
Preorder canceled...

Modifié par Fairhammer, 04 mars 2012 - 06:23 .

[Treopod]

Cirreus wrote...

Prior to learning about Mass Effect 3's endings, this is how I felt about ME1 , ME2 & potenially ME3 ...



After finding out about the endings, this is how I feel about the series ...



In a nut shell, this type of ending(s) has devalued my experiences, expectations & my prior investments. I look at copies of ME1 , ME2 , all the DLC & Collectors editions, toys, artbooks, etc.. & it's not worth as much as it was anymore. Before I've even spent a dime on ME3, EA/Bioware has has taken my previous invests (over $500 in the ME franchise) and almost made it worthless to me. I had taken off work & was planning to replay & perfect another ME1 & 2 run through this weekend for ME3 ... what's the point now ?

A bad ending turns the journey from a free wide open road, to gridlock. Well the journey sucks now.

Well said mate, i feel exactly the same about this.

[x5kevleo]

Mass Effect 3 has a BAD ending that´s the reality guys you have to accept it, let it go and let´s continue with our lives.

[Aurica]

SilencedScream wrote...


Edit: Also, yes - you actually had some variety in what you could do for the ending of DA:O. Like I stated in point one, no matter what you do in ME3, the endings are all 90% the same.

This.
I have no issue with bad endings.  Infact I have multiple playthroughs for DA:O and in some I choose the bad endings.  Its the fact that nothing we do seemed to have mattered for a game advertised about choice.  That is what makes a bad game.

[BellPeppers&Beef023]

In a nutshell, all these talk about "Journey" vs "Destination" are really irrelevant if the destination made u wish u never left home in the first place.

[OdanUrr]

I don't have a problem with bad endings. I have a problem with bad endings that don't make sense.

[Thornheart360]

Can't say anything about DA:O, I didn't care for that game. As for the question of bad endings, in a game where the narrative is a touted feature, and you invest time into experiencing this narrative, it stands to reason that if the narrative ends poorly, one feels cheated of that time invested into said narrative if the narrative concludes poorly.

The sting is sharper in an experience that has been a long running series of games, and the time and emotion invested in the characters and their tale becomes trivialized by poor decisions made by the writers and their associates.

I get the anger, I get the outrage, I get the pain. We made a choice, to care about the characters, the story, the setting, about the Mass Effect universe, only to see what we've come to care about trivialized or worse.

It doesn't make the game bad, but if it's a larger branch of what the game is, including how it is experienced, then it can pretty much ruin the rest of the experience. Like having a portion of a meal tainted some way that makes it taste absolutely vile. Doesn't mean the other parts are tainted, but the overall experience will still be unpleasant.

...sorry about the wall of text.

Edit:

ithurtz wrote...

In a nutshell, all these talk about
"Journey" vs "Destination" are really irrelevant if the destination made
u wish u never left home in the first place.

This sums things up precicely.

Modifié par Thornheart360, 05 mars 2012 - 12:03 .

[BellPeppers&Beef023]

Thornheart360 wrote...

Can't say anything about DA:O, I didn't care for that game. As for the question of bad endings, in a game where the narrative is a touted feature, and you invest time into experiencing this narrative, it stands to reason that if the narrative ends poorly, one feels cheated of that time invested into said narrative if the narrative concludes poorly.

The sting is sharper in an experience that has been a long running series of games, and the time and emotion invested in the characters and their tale becomes trivialized by poor decisions made by the writers and their associates.

I get the anger, I get the outrage, I get the pain. We made a choice, to care about the characters, the story, the setting, about the Mass Effect universe, only to see what we've come to care about trivialized or worse.

It doesn't make the game bad, but if it's a larger branch of what the game is, including how it is experienced, then it can pretty much ruin the rest of the experience. Like having a portion of a meal tainted some way that makes it taste absolutely vile. Doesn't mean the other parts are tainted, but the overall experience will still be unpleasant.

...sorry about the wall of text.

Well said, well said. +1

[Sylvanpyxie]

The same reason the end of Grease with the flying car made the entire thing horrible.

It was actually a viable chick-flick movie right up until that point. Grounded in reality with a sprinkle of musical magic, but that second that car started to fly the entire thing became a face-palm worthy performance avoided for the rest of existence.