27 réponses à ce sujet

[Synthetic Frost]

 That. Blows.

If these endings are truly real... What was the point of denying Saren? Why not just give us the choice to join him back in ME1, and save the franchise to by limiting it to its best game?

[Kronner]

Define right.

[Aesieru]

I quite liked ME2, actually.

In any case, judging a game before playing it seems thick.

---

As to your point, I have to state that Saren was more about being slaves of the Reapers, which would not have occurred, we'd of been dissolved and made into a few reapers, filled with programs and then off we go to wait for another 50k years.

[I_Jedi]

He was right about the destruction of the ME universe the entire time.

He even predicted the endings would be terrible.

[Balek-Vriege]

Synthetic Frost wrote...

 That. Blows.

If these endings are truly real... What was the point of denying Saren? Why not just give us the choice to join him back in ME1, and save the franchise to by limiting it to its best game?

The point is that Saren had the right idea (imo and actually, wasn't his idea), but at the wrong time.  He was just being used by the Reapers and led to believe through indoctrination that what is an option in ME3 was an option in ME1.  It wasn't and the Reapers would have reapefied and husikied everyone.  He also believed in cybernetic perfection out of fear of the Reapers and not to solve some universal theory/issue.

[BatmanPWNS]

Saren blows? As in blowj*bs?

[MrAtomica]

Aesieru wrote...

I quite liked ME2, actually.

In any case, judging a game before playing it seems thick.

---

As to your point, I have to state that Saren was more about being slaves of the Reapers, which would not have occurred, we'd of been dissolved and made into a few reapers, filled with programs and then off we go to wait for another 50k years.

I might have agreed with the wait and see argument, until I found the audio files. Sadly, they add another layer of confirmation onto what has already been available.

[AlexMBrennan]

Well done on noticing that ME3 renders ME1 and ME2 entirely pointless

[GBGriffin]

You mean, in the end, the bad guys weren't really all bad!?

Color me blown away by this startling and innovative plot twist.

[Hyrist]

MrAtomica wrote...


I might have agreed with the wait and see argument, until I found the audio files. Sadly, they add another layer of confirmation onto what has already been available.

I question that.

Again, the entirety of ME3 is and ending, in a sense. If we're looking through audio files or bits and pieces, it still does not give us an adaquate depiction of the enviroment created for us to experience all this in. We miss out on the theme and mood that give context to these bits.

I think it would be wise if we withhold judgment to see whether or not the entire picture makes these otherwise poor feeling endings better or not - as well as if the game as a whole overcomes them.

[Halo Quea]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Well done on noticing that ME3 renders ME1 and ME2 entirely pointless

Again, ^ THIS point simply can't be raised enough.  

Shepard arrived to the EXACT SAME  choices given to Saren.  Meaning that Saren obviously choose to merge.    And with that flawed logic exposed, Shepard could have joined him and/or helped him pick one of the other choices. 

Modifié par Halo Quea, 03 mars 2012 - 09:17 .

[GBGriffin]

Hyrist wrote...


I question that.

Again, the entirety of ME3 is and ending, in a sense. If we're looking through audio files or bits and pieces, it still does not give us an adaquate depiction of the enviroment created for us to experience all this in. We miss out on the theme and mood that give context to these bits.

I think it would be wise if we withhold judgment to see whether or not the entire picture makes these otherwise poor feeling endings better or not - as well as if the game as a whole overcomes them.

The problem is, players have already played through it to give us context, and even then, no amount of context, theme, or mood will make me feel any better about the fate of the Normandy crew, which I've determined to be my main sticking point.

If they pipe in a bunch of dramatic music, sure, it sets a nice mood...it doesn't change the ultimate outcome.

Modifié par GBGriffin, 03 mars 2012 - 09:17 .

[Zyrious]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Synthetic Frost wrote...

 That. Blows.

If these endings are truly real... What was the point of denying Saren? Why not just give us the choice to join him back in ME1, and save the franchise to by limiting it to its best game?

The point is that Saren had the right idea (imo and actually, wasn't his idea), but at the wrong time.  He was just being used by the Reapers and led to believe through indoctrination that what is an option in ME3 was an option in ME1.  It wasn't and the Reapers would have reapefied and husikied everyone.  He also believed in cybernetic perfection out of fear of the Reapers and not to solve some universal theory/issue.

But in the end, if you chose control or synergy, you ARE just like saren. Just like saren, you are acting out of fear. Fear of the singularity, fear of the unknown. By choosing destroy, you choose hope, fatih, and the idea that nothing is inevitable (including the idea that even if the singularity did happen, the galaxy couldnt resolve it without extinction of all organics). "I wont let fear compromise who i am!".

[push2play]

Saren wasn't right, as he did not have the information to make a rational choice and has been indoctrinated. Shepard does. Merge and control are the rational, logical outcomes. Destruction of the Reapers is an emotional choice, based on hope that singularity doesn't happen. Judging by just the Quarian experience with the Geth, it is a very feeble hope.

[Spaceguy5]

MrAtomica wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

I quite liked ME2, actually.

In any case, judging a game before playing it seems thick.

---

As to your point, I have to state that Saren was more about being slaves of the Reapers, which would not have occurred, we'd of been dissolved and made into a few reapers, filled with programs and then off we go to wait for another 50k years.

I might have agreed with the wait and see argument, until I found the audio files. Sadly, they add another layer of confirmation onto what has already been available.

Dear god. After extracting the audio files, and listening to some of the ending ones........ /cliffJump

"Can you tell me another story about the Shepard?"

[Eclipse_9990]

 


I have a new respect, and appreciation for Saren now. 

Zyrious wrote...

But in the end, if you chose control or synergy, you ARE just like saren. Just like saren, you are acting out of fear. Fear of the singularity, fear of the unknown. By choosing destroy, you choose hope, fatih, and the idea that nothing is inevitable (including the idea that even if the singularity did happen, the galaxy couldnt resolve it without extinction of all organics). "I wont let fear compromise who i am!".

 

Saren was a pretty cool guy. I'm glad I'm just like him. He had way more swagger than Shepard ever did. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 03 mars 2012 - 10:03 .

[LOLandStuff]

Spaceguy5 wrote...

Dear god. After extracting the audio files, and listening to some of the ending ones........ /cliffJump

"Can you tell me another story about the Shepard?"

"Shepard on the battlefield was a force to reckon with, and a natural disaster on the dance floor."

[ncknck]

We will never know if Saren was right. Because we dont know his reasons and motivations. If he did it out of fear and indoctrination, well he was wrong, if he had the info, he at least tried to do what he thought was right. But we dont know since he isnt likely to tell us anymore.

My guess is, he was right though.

[Aesieru]

I'm not aware of how to extract the audio files, but I'm avoiding a lot of stuff so I don't get disappointed before I even have context.

[Prom001]

OP good work. Bioware we are calling you out on that one.

[push2play]

Again, as mentioned before, Saren's motivations are unclear. From what we can gather, he'd been indoctrinated and thus his actions were influenced by the Reapers. There was no option to join him/them at that time, as the Reapers had a mission to fulfill that did not include merge as a possibility.

So while merge may, ultimately, be the logical and rational choice from an evolutionary standpoint, our actions in ME1 are due to our perception of Reapers as a malevolent destructive force. It is not until ME3 that we learn that their intentions are, for the most part, otherwise. The only hint we get is at the end of ME2, when Harbinger proclaims "We are your salvation through destruction".

[The Radical Centrist]

So are we arguing if Saren's motivations were correct or if his conclusions were correct? I ask because the OP seems to be addressing the latter and detractor's seem to be addressing the former.

[panamakira]

Well he was right about the Mass Effect universe getting destroyed as we know it but surrender to the Reapers being the best option?

Not really. Check out what happened to Protheans. Yuck~ they became bugs.....no thanks.

[LOLandStuff]

Whatever Saren said, it's kind of pointless. ME3 looks like it's absolutely separate from the other two.
And wasn't there a rumor that the original idea had something to do with dark energy and not that singularity BS. Then what Saren said would have made more sense.
But now, it looks like the reapers are just programed and can't think of anything but: Hurr durr...we're hell bent on your destruction to avoid something bad. Derp.
Kind of hard to believe now they're more than just a bunch of flying computers with a glitch.

[push2play]

LOLandStuff wrote...

Kind of hard to believe now they're more than just a bunch of flying computers with a glitch.

That glitch being their unrelenting desire to save us from ourselves? I don't know, seems pretty logical to me. If anything, abandoning dark matter and going with technological singularity seems a more rational choice. Perhaps they shouldn't have turned the Reapers into drones, but rather some sort of galactic Watchers, but their motives are sound.

Modifié par push2play, 03 mars 2012 - 10:56 .