So I just finished the new Dragon Age: Asunder book and have been left with SO many questions about Leliana and her involvement with not only the Divine, but the Seekers of Truth as well. Somethings are just not adding up.
As shown by Leliana's Song DLC, we all know she became mixed up in a scheme involving Orlesian Revered Mother Dorothea and her former bardmaster, Marjolaine. She retrieved the stolen information from Marjoliane for Dorothea in exchange for shelter and safety as a Chantry Lay Sister hiding in Ferelden. (the assumption anyway)
By Act 3 of DA2, Leliana is an agent of the Divine (Dorothea) investigating the unrest in Kirkwall and rooting out a serious blood mage group and to warn Grand Cleric Elthina of the danger her life is in. At the end of DA2, we all discover that Leliana is a member of the Seekers of Truth alongside Cassandra Pentaghast, the two obviously searching for the trails of the Hero of Ferelden and the Champion of Kirkwall.
According to Asunder, Leliana was Divine Justina V's bodyguard and her right hand, performing missions in secret that involved research into the Rite of Tranquility and reforming both the Circle of Magic and Templar Order. She even aided in the escape of all the imprisoned mages in the White Spire after Lord Seeker Lambert disrupted the conclave and butchered several of the mages, imprisoning the rest. An event the Divine also aided in by drawing Lambert away from the White Spire.
What I don't get is how did Leliana join the Seekers 2 years later when Lambert KNEW she was an agent of the Divine and anulled the accord that bound the Seekers of Truth to the Chantry, taking control of both them and the Templar Order to fight the rebelling mages under Grand Enchanter Fiona.
No explaination is really clear how or when Leliana joined the order and why she would even be working to try and find the Hero of Ferelden or Champion of Kirkwall, especially given that Lambert is like possessed at this point. Only solution I could think of is somehow, she infilitrated the Seekers and Lambert either doesn't care or doesn't know and is manipulating their resources and people like Cassandra for the Divine in hopes of finding both Heroes but even that's got some holes in it.
Thoughts?
Leliana and the Seekers of Truth
Débuté par
T3H Fish
, mars 04 2012 01:34
Retour en haut
#2
Posté 04 mars 2012 - 02:10
whykikyouwhy
-
- Members
- 3 534 messages
This has not been proven to be a fact (at least not at this juncture) - it's an assumption made based on circumstantial evidence.T3H Fish wrote...
At the end of DA2, we all discover that Leliana is a member of the Seekers of Truth alongside Cassandra Pentaghast, the two obviously searching for the trails of the Hero of Ferelden and the Champion of Kirkwall.
#3
Posté 04 mars 2012 - 02:17
T3H Fish
-
- Members
- 177 messages
whykikyouwhy wrote...
This has not been proven to be a fact (at least not at this juncture) - it's an assumption made based on circumstantial evidence.T3H Fish wrote...
At the end of DA2, we all discover that Leliana is a member of the Seekers of Truth alongside Cassandra Pentaghast, the two obviously searching for the trails of the Hero of Ferelden and the Champion of Kirkwall.
Ok, I could believe that Leliana isn't an official member of the Seekers of Truth and could simply be in disguise. I poked around a little more and saw on Cassandra's wiki page that in Dragon Age: Redemption, Cassandra is now Lord Seeker, not Lambert, according to the templar Cairn... but, I just can't take Redemption seriously as canon to the rest of the DA story.
Is there any OFFICIAL confirmation that Cassnadra is Lord Seeker by the end of DA2 instead of Lambert?
#4
Posté 04 mars 2012 - 02:24
whykikyouwhy
-
- Members
- 3 534 messages
I haven't heard of any official confirmation.
But do we know the exact hierarchy of the Seeker order? Lambert is listed as Lord Seeker and "head of the Seekers of Truth" in the wiki, but then we have a character in the upcoming anime who is referred to as the High Seeker. Maybe there are various branches of Seekers, as there are different chantries and templar orders - maybe there is a collective of several groups that make up the entire order.
That's the trouble with secret organizations - they don't divulge a lot of info.
But do we know the exact hierarchy of the Seeker order? Lambert is listed as Lord Seeker and "head of the Seekers of Truth" in the wiki, but then we have a character in the upcoming anime who is referred to as the High Seeker. Maybe there are various branches of Seekers, as there are different chantries and templar orders - maybe there is a collective of several groups that make up the entire order.
That's the trouble with secret organizations - they don't divulge a lot of info.
#5
Posté 04 mars 2012 - 02:34
T3H Fish
-
- Members
- 177 messages
I honestly don't know. Lord Seeker Lambert took control of the White Spire for the duration of Asunder and he annulled the Neverran Accord at the end of the book, which I would think you'd have to be pretty high up on the Seeker food chain to be able to take break away both the Seekers and the Templars from the Chantry. From what I could gather, Lord Seeker sounds like a title akin to First Warden or Grand Enchanter, but that's just speculating. High Seeker could be comparable to Warden-Commander or First Enchanter, but again, speculation until the movie comes out.
In the book, it really seemed that the Lord Seeker only answered to the Divine but again, that's just the facet of the story and don't get much depth into the Seekers of Truth themselves unfortunately.
Hypothetically, if Cassandra is the new Lord Seeker, would it mean that the Seekers are back under the Divine's control or just a faction of them and the rest and the Templars are a rouge order now. It would give Leliana a plausible explianation for being in the Seeker uniform, but that doesn't mean Cassnadra's working under the Divine's instructions.
In the book, it really seemed that the Lord Seeker only answered to the Divine but again, that's just the facet of the story and don't get much depth into the Seekers of Truth themselves unfortunately.
Hypothetically, if Cassandra is the new Lord Seeker, would it mean that the Seekers are back under the Divine's control or just a faction of them and the rest and the Templars are a rouge order now. It would give Leliana a plausible explianation for being in the Seeker uniform, but that doesn't mean Cassnadra's working under the Divine's instructions.
#6
Posté 04 mars 2012 - 05:11
Wulfram
-
- Members
- 18 950 messages
#7
Posté 04 mars 2012 - 05:32
Koire
-
- Members
- 183 messages
#8
Posté 04 mars 2012 - 07:37
T3H Fish
-
- Members
- 177 messages
Ok, that's reassuring, but then why the uniforms to appear as if in the order? Because in Asunder, which is written by Gaider, the Seeker armor is described in similar fashion to the ones we see in the end of DA2.
But ok, Leliana not being a Seeker I can see and it would make sense, regardless of the fact she's wearing the uniform and working alongside Cassandra. Where does that leave Cassandra and the remains of the Seekers of Truth then? If Redemption is to be believed, Cassandra runs the Order now, though there's no indication that the Seekers are still rouge or have realigned with the Divine after Lambert dissolved the accord.
And that's assuming Cassandra's the new leader of the Seekers ( because I just cannot accept Redemption as canon, as stated before). Could Cassandra also be an agent of the Divine and both her and Leliana are simply disguised as Seekers to mask their motivations, like looking for the two heroes. According to Asunder, both the Seeker Order and the Templar Order are rouge after the mages rebel, so they would be looking for both mages and mage sympathizers and the Divine exposed as a sympathizer would put all of her known agents in danger.
So perhaps the uniforms are nothing more than a disguise for them to move around more freely, especially in Kirkwall, which is supposedly under heavy Templar control at the time.
But ok, Leliana not being a Seeker I can see and it would make sense, regardless of the fact she's wearing the uniform and working alongside Cassandra. Where does that leave Cassandra and the remains of the Seekers of Truth then? If Redemption is to be believed, Cassandra runs the Order now, though there's no indication that the Seekers are still rouge or have realigned with the Divine after Lambert dissolved the accord.
And that's assuming Cassandra's the new leader of the Seekers ( because I just cannot accept Redemption as canon, as stated before). Could Cassandra also be an agent of the Divine and both her and Leliana are simply disguised as Seekers to mask their motivations, like looking for the two heroes. According to Asunder, both the Seeker Order and the Templar Order are rouge after the mages rebel, so they would be looking for both mages and mage sympathizers and the Divine exposed as a sympathizer would put all of her known agents in danger.
So perhaps the uniforms are nothing more than a disguise for them to move around more freely, especially in Kirkwall, which is supposedly under heavy Templar control at the time.
Modifié par T3H Fish, 04 mars 2012 - 07:38 .
#9
Posté 04 mars 2012 - 08:00
Wulfram
-
- Members
- 18 950 messages
In the thread that's linked, David Gaider implies that Seekers don't have a uniform
I'd assume Cassandra remained loyal to the Divine, while many of her order followed the Lord Seeker in rebellion. She still considers herself a Seeker, because she's carrying out what she considers to be her duty as one.
I'd assume Cassandra remained loyal to the Divine, while many of her order followed the Lord Seeker in rebellion. She still considers herself a Seeker, because she's carrying out what she considers to be her duty as one.
Modifié par Wulfram, 04 mars 2012 - 08:00 .
#10
Posté 04 mars 2012 - 08:22
T3H Fish
-
- Members
- 177 messages
Gaider is saying they don't have a uniform and yet writes a book where Lord Seeker Lambert, who is the leader of the Seekers of Truth, is described as wearing armor "... like a templar's, but was charcoal black and emblazoned with a strange image that looked like the Chantry's sunburst but with an eye in the center." And it's made very clear in the book that Lambert IS a Seeker, the Lord Seeker, and he's always wear that outfit. Also towards the end, during the conclave and the rebellion, Lambert is described at having several soldiers with him dressed in the same manner and they are also referred to as memberes of the Seekers.
If the Seekers don't have an 'official' uniform, surely the sunburst with the eye in the center is their symbol, since it's cropped up in association with the order on more than one occassion in the DA lore. Unless their fashion policy is like the Spectres in Mass Effect, where they are just hired agents, making a uniform unneccessary or just a formality when having more public dealings.
Just doesn't feel like something is right here in regards to how the Seekers present themselves in comparison to Leliana's and Cassandra's appearances in DA2. And perhaps this is drawing too much from appearances, but one of the screens from Dawn of the Seeker shows Cassandra and (assuming) Lord Seeker Lambert wearing black armor that seems to keep being associated with the Seekers. Granted we can't see the front of the uniform to confirm if the symbol is present but still... either just a string of coincidences or the Seekers have some sort of uniform for, at the least, public appearances.
If the Seekers don't have an 'official' uniform, surely the sunburst with the eye in the center is their symbol, since it's cropped up in association with the order on more than one occassion in the DA lore. Unless their fashion policy is like the Spectres in Mass Effect, where they are just hired agents, making a uniform unneccessary or just a formality when having more public dealings.
Just doesn't feel like something is right here in regards to how the Seekers present themselves in comparison to Leliana's and Cassandra's appearances in DA2. And perhaps this is drawing too much from appearances, but one of the screens from Dawn of the Seeker shows Cassandra and (assuming) Lord Seeker Lambert wearing black armor that seems to keep being associated with the Seekers. Granted we can't see the front of the uniform to confirm if the symbol is present but still... either just a string of coincidences or the Seekers have some sort of uniform for, at the least, public appearances.
#11
Posté 04 mars 2012 - 09:45
Wulfram
-
- Members
- 18 950 messages
OK, it does sound like some wires have got crossed somewhere.
But I think it's fairly clear that the intent currently is that Leliana isn't a Seeker. Maybe putting her in the armour at the end of the game was a mistake and DG came up with the no uniform thing to try and deal with that. Best thing is probably not to think too much about it, and trust it'll be cleared up later.
But I think it's fairly clear that the intent currently is that Leliana isn't a Seeker. Maybe putting her in the armour at the end of the game was a mistake and DG came up with the no uniform thing to try and deal with that. Best thing is probably not to think too much about it, and trust it'll be cleared up later.
#12
Posté 04 mars 2012 - 10:54
T3H Fish
-
- Members
- 177 messages
So why choose Leliana to dress up as a Seeker? That's the question I'm not quiet seeing any answer for at the present.
Yes, I get Gaider has stated that Leliana is not an actual member of the Seekers, but she must be wearing the uniform for a reason.
If Cassandra is still a loyal member and it's to be believed is now the Lord Seeker, have the Seekers gone back to working for the Divine? If so, the only reason Leliana would be there would be to serve as an overseer or something to that affect so the order doesn't turn.
If the Seekers are still rouge, then Leliana's task may have involved infiltrating the ranks, getting close to a high ranking officer, and manipulate the order to the Divine's schemes.
Or neither possibility and both Leliana and Cassandra are agents of the Divine, disguised as Seekers so their movements aren't scrutinized by Templars or other Seekers they may have to deal with, but even that possibility has its flaws and all of them count on facets of both individuals' circumstances that are not all that clear.
Yes, I get Gaider has stated that Leliana is not an actual member of the Seekers, but she must be wearing the uniform for a reason.
If Cassandra is still a loyal member and it's to be believed is now the Lord Seeker, have the Seekers gone back to working for the Divine? If so, the only reason Leliana would be there would be to serve as an overseer or something to that affect so the order doesn't turn.
If the Seekers are still rouge, then Leliana's task may have involved infiltrating the ranks, getting close to a high ranking officer, and manipulate the order to the Divine's schemes.
Or neither possibility and both Leliana and Cassandra are agents of the Divine, disguised as Seekers so their movements aren't scrutinized by Templars or other Seekers they may have to deal with, but even that possibility has its flaws and all of them count on facets of both individuals' circumstances that are not all that clear.
Modifié par T3H Fish, 04 mars 2012 - 11:16 .
#13
Posté 05 mars 2012 - 01:50
whykikyouwhy
-
- Members
- 3 534 messages
There could be a myriad of reasons for Leliana dressing to match Cassandra and her troops.
- She's working undercover.
- She had donned the common armor in order to be better accepted in their ranks (but Cassandra knows she is not a Seeker).
- She needed to wear armor for whatever the mission at hand was, and thus borrowed the fetching garb.
Sadly, we just don't have enough clues and details about the Seekers, or the Orlesian bard herself. We really don't know what the truth in her own tale is. We're just going to get bits and pieces to tantalize and draw us further in - another puzzle piece with each new game or DLC or book, etc, and eventually, a grand picture may be revealed.
- She's working undercover.
- She had donned the common armor in order to be better accepted in their ranks (but Cassandra knows she is not a Seeker).
- She needed to wear armor for whatever the mission at hand was, and thus borrowed the fetching garb.
Sadly, we just don't have enough clues and details about the Seekers, or the Orlesian bard herself. We really don't know what the truth in her own tale is. We're just going to get bits and pieces to tantalize and draw us further in - another puzzle piece with each new game or DLC or book, etc, and eventually, a grand picture may be revealed.
#15
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 08:37
pigswill2
-
- Members
- 1 messages
Maybe Leliana isn't a seeker but is currently allied with Cassandra (who may or may not be Lord Seeker) and is wearing seeker armour to blend in.
#16
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 12:25
TheGunslinger
-
- Members
- 702 messages
T3H Fish wrote...
DLC would be great right about now.
Hopefully it's an expansion, like Awakening.
