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[Valmy]

Blood Magic is illegal period and the penalty is well known. I don't see how he can be seen as a victim when he did something knowlingly being aware of the consequences.



Still...the process of becoming a tranquil is pretty horrific. The laws governing mages seem pretty darn Draconian at first but you gradually understand why. Man do mages and magic cause a ton of mischief in this game.



I guess it is merciful compared to how the Qunari treat their mages.

[Herr Uhl]

RunCDFirst wrote...

True, but when it was legal, they did kill Andraste and break into the Golden City... talk about needing a reload.

How has that got anything to do with them being blood mages? Is it the fact that they were blood mages that made them want to explore the golden city? Did that trigger the first blight? Did they kill Andraste because they were blood mages and not because she threatened their mageocracy?

[The Angry One]

RunCDFirst wrote...

True, but when it was legal, they did kill Andraste

Executing someone who led an armed rebellion against your empire is quite human.

and break into the Golden City... talk about needing a reload.

Or so the Chantry says anyway. That too is something humans would do. Why would a demon want to break back into the Fade? As far as the Codex has it, demons tend to stay the hell away from the Black City.

[Foxd1e]

Isolde just hit the wrong note for me and came off as a whiny,irratating,won't take responsibility for her actions ****.



So I knocked her out and the knife went *swipe* and it was done. Afterwards Isolde's whining managed to block me from having any kind of sympathy for her. Heck dealing with Alistair back at the camp was the tougher part.



I played the human noble my first playthrough and the whole game felt like it was tragedy after tragedy for a while.

[Flamin Jesus]

Destroying the Anvil of the Void (As well as the alternative, allowing the dwarves to become slaves of the Anvil again), killing (or allowing to die) some people who'd be dead a few decades later one way or the other is one thing, destroying a unique artefact or an entire society quite another.

[RunCDFirst]

Herr Uhl wrote...

RunCDFirst wrote...

True, but when it was legal, they did kill Andraste and break into the Golden City... talk about needing a reload.

How has that got anything to do with them being blood mages? Is it the fact that they were blood mages that made them want to explore the golden city? Did that trigger the first blight? Did they kill Andraste because they were blood mages and not because she threatened their mageocracy?

I could be wrong, but I thought some codex mentioned that the Tevinter mages reached the Golden City through the power of blood magic. Ergo, without blood magic, they would be unable to enter it's glorious halls. Andraste lead a holy march against the Tevinter empire because it was full of blood magic and idol worship, things that the Maker was displeased with.
What you seem to suggest goes against what the Chantry teaches. You don't doubt the Chantry... do you?

[Herr Uhl]

RunCDFirst wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

RunCDFirst wrote...

True, but when it was legal, they did kill Andraste and break into the Golden City... talk about needing a reload.

How has that got anything to do with them being blood mages? Is it the fact that they were blood mages that made them want to explore the golden city? Did that trigger the first blight? Did they kill Andraste because they were blood mages and not because she threatened their mageocracy?

I could be wrong, but I thought some codex mentioned that the Tevinter mages reached the Golden City through the power of blood magic. Ergo, without blood magic, they would be unable to enter it's glorious halls. Andraste lead a holy march against the Tevinter empire because it was full of blood magic and idol worship, things that the Maker was displeased with.
What you seem to suggest goes against what the Chantry teaches. You don't doubt the Chantry... do you?

Doubt the chantry? Surely you jest!

And doubting the words from a woman who claims that an omnipresent being wanted to take her in as a lover... Surely you jest!

But this is kind of like the problem with science. It made it possible to make a a-bomb, but still is not evil in itself. A knife isn't evil, but you can still kill people with it.

[Dark83]

immeyourenot wrote...

Well after that I vowed never to kill the Crimson Oars again on any other playthrough, my most harsh, evil characters have simply intimidated them into leaving. I don't want them to die. I like to imagine after intimidating the leader into leaving he decides maybe it's time to retire, and he goes and spends the rest of his imaginary life with his loving wife, raising his children peacefully and happily. T.T

If you kill these (relatively innocent) people you ****** the sarge off and he won't give you more quests, no?

[RunCDFirst]

Herr Uhl wrote...
Doubt the chantry? Surely you jest!

And doubting the words from a woman who claims that an omnipresent being wanted to take her in as a lover... Surely you jest!

But this is kind of like the problem with science. It made it possible to make a a-bomb, but still is not evil in itself. A knife isn't evil, but you can still kill people with it.

Good to hear, brother. I would feel very bad if I had to turn you in to the Templar for being a maleficarum. And I would hope you aren't suggesting that one could use blood magic for good. Not only does it contradict that magic should not rule over man, but it's also a rather unimpressive specialization.

[Nighteye2]

Well, I was roleplaying an evil bastard on my 2nd run through, and so I threw away the soul gem after learning all it had to teach. I got really tempted to reload and give free that mage...

[Herr Uhl]

RunCDFirst wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...
Doubt the chantry? Surely you jest!

And doubting the words from a woman who claims that an omnipresent being wanted to take her in as a lover... Surely you jest!

But this is kind of like the problem with science. It made it possible to make a a-bomb, but still is not evil in itself. A knife isn't evil, but you can still kill people with it.

Good to hear, brother. I would feel very bad if I had to turn you in to the Templar for being a maleficarum. And I would hope you aren't suggesting that one could use blood magic for good. Not only does it contradict that magic should not rule over man, but it's also a rather unimpressive specialization.

Jowan manages to kick the ass of a knight commander and the first enchanter. It is not unimpressive.

And nowadays (the game) the chantry seems to believe that all magic is bad. Blood magic is harder to control.

[RunCDFirst]

Herr Uhl wrote...
And nowadays (the game) the chantry seems to believe that all magic is bad. 

Isn't it? <_<

Jowan manages to kick the ass of a knight commander and the first enchanter. It is not unimpressive.

Now if that were an ability from the Blood Magic specialization, I may then regret turning down the desire demon. Though, I think that's Jowan's crowning achievement since he really doesn't do much else. I'm not sure I'd want my claim of fame being 'knocking over an old dude and some guy in big armour.'

[Korva]

The climax of the human noble ending is pretty gut-wrenching and really had me choked up. As did the Ostagar battle cutscene. And the climax of the dwarven noble origin was intense for me, too, though less "choked up" (except for the farewell with faithful Gorim) and more "caught between shock and rage".

On an altogether different note, I play a "paladin" type human noble warrior and felt really bad for taking the goodie-goodie path to resolving the Redcliffe situation. Why? Isolde. That self-absorbed, screeching Orlesian b*tch hit all my red buttons in two seconds flat. I seriously hate her like I have rarely hated a fictional character. I want to publicly whip some sense into her, if that is even possible. I want her to pay for all the deaths and horror she has a big role in inflicting on Redcliffe -- and for the fact that she does not give a crap about all these people. She's all "WAAAAH! WAAAAH! MY SON! WAAAAAH WAAAAAH WAAAAAAH!" and nothing else. Utter trash.

I can never bring myself to play evil characters. But this once ... I wanted to. And so help me, with at least one of my less virtuous alts I will enjoy making her suffer.

Modifié par Korva, 25 novembre 2009 - 10:08 .

[Valmy]

Korva wrote...
Why? Isolde. That self-absorbed, screeching Orlesian b*tch hit all my red buttons in two seconds flat. I seriously hate her like I have rarely hated a fictional character. I want to publicly whip some sense into her, if that is even possible. I want her to pay for all the deaths and horror she has a big role in inflicting on Redcliffe -- and for the fact that she does not give a **** about all these people. She's all "WAAAAH! WAAAAH! MY SON! WAAAAAH WAAAAAH WAAAAAAH!" and nothing else. Utter trash.

Yeah I did not see it that way at all.  I mean the whole thing was her fault for not turning the kid over to the Templars at once but I mean when your son turns into a diabolical demon that is enough to make anybody come unhinged.  I mean she had good intentions but man did it blow up in her face.

Anyway there is nothing inherently evil about asking her to give up her life for her son.  She does so willingly and you could have felt justice had been done and in fact that was probably a merciful thing to do instead of having her live with her actions.

[Riona45]

Valmy wrote...

Um....he was going to become a tranquil because he was suspected of being a Blood Mage.  He denied it and Lily believed him and broke the laws of the Chantry.  I have some sympathy she was blinded by love but it is false that she had no idea.  I knew instantly he was lying that is why I went to First Enchanter Irving and agreed to spy on them for him.

I'll grant you your point, but that changes my opinion not a jot.

[Serogon]

Korva wrote...

The climax of the human noble ending is pretty gut-wrenching and really had me choked up. As did the Ostagar battle cutscene. And the climax of the dwarven noble origin was intense for me, too, though less "choked up" (except for the farewell with faithful Gorim) and more "caught between shock and rage".

On an altogether different note, I play a "paladin" type human noble warrior and felt really bad for taking the goodie-goodie path to resolving the Redcliffe situation. Why? Isolde. That self-absorbed, screeching Orlesian b*tch hit all my red buttons in two seconds flat. I seriously hate her like I have rarely hated a fictional character. I want to publicly whip some sense into her, if that is even possible. I want her to pay for all the deaths and horror she has a big role in inflicting on Redcliffe -- and for the fact that she does not give a crap about all these people. She's all "WAAAAH! WAAAAH! MY SON! WAAAAAH WAAAAAH WAAAAAAH!" and nothing else. Utter trash.

I can never bring myself to play evil characters. But this once ... I wanted to. And so help me, with at least one of my less virtuous alts I will enjoy making her suffer.

Agreed completely about the Isolde thing. I hated that ****... she doesn't care at all about how her son nearly obliterated Redcliffe, she doesn't take any responsibility, she ultimately causes it all by hiring Jowan, she's a snotty **** (just TRY telling Teagan it might be an ambush) and she brings Teagan to the castle despite the fact that it's completely obvious he can't do a damn thing about it.

[Jakia]

When Anora betrayed me was my real emotional part of this game. I was in shock because I wasn't expecting it--I was ready to kill her as well as her father. I went through all that to rescue her and then she *betrays* me? I was livid. I still can't stand Anora on any other play through because of this, though I hear if you say you'll support her she won't betray you...still, seeing her feels like a punch in the gut because of that. Good job, Bioware, you made me hate the Queen.



I also got really sad at the end of the human noble origin. I offered to teach my nephew how to use a sword while his father was away, and seeing him dead...made me realize that I would never get to keep that promise. I was upset about that. Still am, to some extent. :C

[Herr Uhl]

Jakia wrote...
I also got really sad at the end of the human noble origin. I offered to teach my nephew how to use a sword while his father was away, and seeing him dead...made me realize that I would never get to keep that promise. I was upset about that. Still am, to some extent. :C

At least he got to see a sword real up close, and pretty soon after the promise from our bro.

[Korva]

Valmy wrote...

Yeah I did not see it that way at all.  I mean the whole thing was her fault for not turning the kid over to the Templars at once but I mean when your son turns into a diabolical demon that is enough to make anybody come unhinged.  I mean she had good intentions but man did it blow up in her face.

I just can't sympathize with her at all. I was already inclined to dislike her due to Alistair's story, and her behavior and her voice seriously made me loathe her with a red-hot passion. She's a liar, a hypocrite, and the worst thing is she gets away scot-free. Jowan, you can decide if he gets executed, freed or sent away. Isolde is almost as guilty as he is, but there's NO word about her involvement AT ALL, and not a shred of remorse from her over Redcliffe. That's the worst of it.

Anyway there is nothing inherently evil about asking her to give up her life for her son.  She does so willingly and you could have felt justice had been done and in fact that was probably a merciful thing to do instead of having her live with her actions.

Well, blood magic is evil (in the eyes of just about everyone, especially non-mages) and outlawed so it was not an option for my character at all. She'd sooner have killed the kid than try that approach. Besides, it seems extremely naive and like an invitation for further atrocities to give a blood mage access to the power from a human sacrifice. Our characters can't save and reload to see if he actually goes through with the ritual, or uses that power to make everyone's heads explode and escape in the chaos to save his worthless hide.

And I have absolutely no intention to be merciful to her. To the contrary. If there was an option to kill her on the spot for aiding and abetting a maleficar, I'd do it. There just is no satisfying way to resolve this quest with a character like mine ("do-gooder" and believer in justice) because the simpering trash b*tch gets away with everything instead of being held accountable.

Herr Uhl wrote...

At least he got to see a sword real up close, and pretty soon after the promise from our bro.

I don't like children so Oren's death did nothing for me, but damn, that line of Fergus' is unintentionally cynical in a really nasty way, yes. I already knew the Couslands are betrayed in the origin (the origin trailers all were full of massive spoilers), and when Fergus said that I didn't know whether I should laugh or cringe.

Modifié par Korva, 25 novembre 2009 - 11:03 .

[keesio74]

I didn't like how Duncan killed poor Jorby(sp?). I felt crappy accepting it and joining the Warderns



I played the male city elf origin and I was pretty pissed when they took all the women. I went on a rampage and when I saw what happened to my cousin (can't remember her name), I went nuts on that punk and it felt good when I chopped his head off.

[andysdead]

i felt bad when i was attempting to romance Alistair and Liliana at the same time and was FORCED to choose between them... in the end i picked Alistair because i want to be queen... but Liliana was so heart broken by it, i felt almost as bad as that one time in high school when i got caught cheating on my girlfriend with her best friend....

[NebulaY]

my second playthrough and in wardens keep this time i decided to kill avernus after the closing of the veil... the "oh well, then strike me down" look he gave me when kneeling gave me a big lump in my throat somehow.

[Seagloom]

Let's see...

- The human noble origin definitely had an impact. I was impressed by how much so, in fact.
- The early conversations with Alistair, when he was still in a serious funk over Duncan's death.
- Duncan's death, which is ironic considering I'm not fond of him.
- Killing Jowan personally. Perhaps it's having started my first DA game as a mage. Or maybe it's that I believed Jowan was truly repentant over his actions; but... stabbing him through that cage made me feel horrible. So much so I had to reload and choose another option. This is the only time I've ever done that playing a BioWare game. Usually I can take the grim/evil options without batting an eyelash.

On the whole though, DA hasn't brought me down too often. I felt a lot worse playing Jade Empire and KotOR's darker paths. I think the key is if I feel acquainted with an NPC before some harm befalls them too. It's easier for me to connect with them emotionally.

For example, selling out Connor's future to the desire demon didn't make me flinch, and I think it's because I didn't really get to know him before striking that bargain. Whereas Oren's death in the human noble origin had a reverse effect on me.

Modifié par Seagloom, 25 novembre 2009 - 11:34 .

[lameduckie]

I felt bad about killing Avernus, but I really wanted his robe. If only there were an "I'll let you live if you give me your clothes" option.....

[Taritu]

Valmy wrote...

Blood Magic is illegal period and the penalty is well known. I don't see how he can be seen as a victim when he did something knowlingly being aware of the consequences.

Still...the process of becoming a tranquil is pretty horrific. The laws governing mages seem pretty darn Draconian at first but you gradually understand why. Man do mages and magic cause a ton of mischief in this game.

I guess it is merciful compared to how the Qunari treat their mages.

Mages do horrible things because of the laws, actually.  The entire Tower rebellion would not have happened if the Templars weren't keeping everyone under their thumb.

Treat people like untrustworthy slaves, and they will act like untrustworthy slaves.

The Qunari lost their war against humans because humans treat their mages better than Qunari.  Something I wanted to remind Sten of, but never got the dialogue option.

But if I were a mage, if I fled, I'd make my way to Tevinter.  It's got a lot of problems, but it's the only place that doesn't oppress its mages.