25 réponses à ce sujet

[KefkaGestahl]

 I first noticed this a few months ago, but with more people making the comparisons, it really seems like the three endings are more-or-less the same as the ones from Deus Ex.  In Deus Ex, you could either...

• Destroy the AI and send the world into a new dark age.
• Control the AI and maintain the status quo.
• Merge with the AI in order to transcend humanity.

Invisible War really focused more on the impact of the merge, as JC Denton really wanted to do exactly what the ending implies: force humanity to evolve - to become organic-synthetic hybrids, and he makes a compelling case if you want to hear him out.

Do you think these parallels are valid?  Did BioWare take any inspiration from Deus Ex?

Modifié par KefkaGestahl, 04 mars 2012 - 03:01 .

[Hexedcoder]

ICARUS FOUND YOU!!! RUN WHILE YOU CAN!!!
--ICARUS FOUND YOU!!! RUN WHILE YOU CAN!!!
----ICARUS FOUND YOU!!! RUN WHILE YOU CAN!!!
------ICARUS FOUND YOU!!! RUN WHILE YOU CAN!!!
--------ICARUS FOUND YOU!!! RUN WHILE YOU CAN!!!
------ICARUS FOUND YOU!!! RUN WHILE YOU CAN!!!
----ICARUS FOUND YOU!!! RUN WHILE YOU CAN!!!
--ICARUS FOUND YOU!!! RUN WHILE YOU CAN!!!
ICARUS FOUND YOU!!! RUN WHILE YOU CAN!!!

Maybe...But with reapers.

Modifié par Hexedcoder, 04 mars 2012 - 03:06 .

[Heathen Pride]

[Shwiggliness]

I've seen this comparison many times.
The dfference is, Deus Ex had really good endings that I liked.

[Templar Fox]

See, the main thing is..

Deus Ex had endings that fit the tone of the story. It was dark, neogothic game with lots of depressing themes and overall dark messages. The endings made sense given all that we knew about the setting.

Mass Effect on the other hand, is a space opera. It fits in more with Star Wars and Star Trek than Warhammer 40k, but apparently they wanted to do GRIMDARK endings.

Hell, Halo 3 had a way happier ending than ME 3 arguably does, and that's a much more grim miliatry war story.  Mass Effect incorporates somewhat similar themes of military, but it's at it's heart a Space Opera.  You don't see Master Chief getting it on with Cortana do you?

Modifié par Templar Fox, 04 mars 2012 - 03:10 .

[jellobell]

KefkaGestahl wrote...
Did BioWare take any inspiration from Deus Ex?

Yes, if "take any inspiration from" is changed to "Bioware ripped off the endings to Deus Ex".

[Shwiggliness]

yeah, the difference really was Deus Ex was about as dystopian and grimdark as it got.

[Comrade Goby]

Deus Ex's endings made sense and were good.

Not to mention the game was glorious.

[Hexedcoder]

But isn't the reaper invasion supposed to make the galaxy more Grimdark.

Seemed the direction they were going to since ME2 got more "negative" in what was going on in the galaxy and how Shepard was adapting to it.

Or to surmise...If you made renegade decisions in ME1 you were an awful person. If you made paragon decisions in ME2 you were a wimp.

[xentar]

Don't think control is much of a status quo ending.

As for the tone, It definitely didn't start out dark. Unfortunately, I dislike the direction they took...

[Purge the heathens]

jellobell wrote...

KefkaGestahl wrote...
Did BioWare take any inspiration from Deus Ex?

Yes, if "take any inspiration from" is changed to "Bioware ripped off the endings to Deus Ex".

Everyone's ripping off everyone these days, including themselves. Only artsy indie games are allowed to call themselves "original" in any way; someone else does it, they're cliched, pulling things out of their rectums etc. pp. Developers would probably get better responses if they put out dungeon crawlers and shooters without even pretending to have a plot. Circumstances being as they're now, even a partially satisfied fanbase would cause reality to break down which is why there is no such thing.

[Bleachrude]

Again, why is "destroying the mass relays" considered the Dark ages?

Eezo still exists and thus FTL still exists? Unless there was no more eezo in the setting, not sure how this is a dark ages resolution...

(Hell, omni-tools don't even use eezo in any shape or form)

[nocbl2]

Templar Fox wrote...

See, the main thing is..

Deus Ex had endings that fit the tone of the story. It was dark, neogothic game with lots of depressing themes and overall dark messages. The endings made sense given all that we knew about the setting.

Mass Effect on the other hand, is a space opera. It fits in more with Star Wars and Star Trek than Warhammer 40k, but apparently they wanted to do GRIMDARK endings.

Hell, Halo 3 had a way happier ending than ME 3 arguably does, and that's a much more grim miliatry war story.  Mass Effect incorporates somewhat similar themes of military, but it's at it's heart a Space Opera.  You don't see Master Chief getting it on with Cortana do you?

Rule 34.

[minormiracle]

It's a space opera about the galactic extionction cycle. How do you think it was supposed to end? Just look at the BSG reboot and where they ended up.

[raving rabbid]

you're a little late to the "its like deus ex!" party

[Jynthor]

Deus Ex Invisible War does not exist, stop posting this hoax.

[Anyalyss]

The destroy ending is also "inspired" in the Cybran ending from Supreme Commander where the space-gates go boomboom.

[Obro]

Purge the heathens wrote...

jellobell wrote...

KefkaGestahl wrote...
Did BioWare take any inspiration from Deus Ex?

Yes, if "take any inspiration from" is changed to "Bioware ripped off the endings to Deus Ex".

Everyone's ripping off everyone these days, including themselves. Only artsy indie games are allowed to call themselves "original" in any way; someone else does it, they're cliched, pulling things out of their rectums etc. pp. Developers would probably get better responses if they put out dungeon crawlers and shooters without even pretending to have a plot. Circumstances being as they're now, even a partially satisfied fanbase would cause reality to break down which is why there is no such thing.

it's not just a simple borrowed idea they pretty much just changed the key words and left everything the same

[Nerevar-as]

minormiracle wrote...

It's a space opera about the galactic extionction cycle. How do you think it was supposed to end? Just look at the BSG reboot and where they ended up.

For the surviving characters in a better place than ME, while Roslin died, the Tighs, Baltar and Caprica Six and the Agathons got to be together. Will this apply to Shepard and ME1 LI? Hell of a way to reward faithfulness.

Anyway ME tone is much more SW than BSG. From what I know, even in ME3 before the ending hits if you play it that way: geth-quarian peace, cured genophage,...

[KillSlash45]

Obro wrote...

Purge the heathens wrote...

jellobell wrote...

KefkaGestahl wrote...
Did BioWare take any inspiration from Deus Ex?

Yes, if "take any inspiration from" is changed to "Bioware ripped off the endings to Deus Ex".

Everyone's ripping off everyone these days, including themselves. Only artsy indie games are allowed to call themselves "original" in any way; someone else does it, they're cliched, pulling things out of their rectums etc. pp. Developers would probably get better responses if they put out dungeon crawlers and shooters without even pretending to have a plot. Circumstances being as they're now, even a partially satisfied fanbase would cause reality to break down which is why there is no such thing.

it's not just a simple borrowed idea they pretty much just changed the key words and left everything the same

Except they didn't.

[Ieldra]

I have seen thematic parallels to Deus Ex. I do not mind. It it not a bad thing to let yourself be inspired by a good thing. There are differences though. In Deux Ex, the solutions are presented to solve the problem of government. The focus is on human - or posthuman - society and how it works or will work. ME3 is broader in scope, and it is about survival. Not going into more detail here.

BTW I absolutely like the choices about life in the galaxy I am presented with in ME3, even with the flaws in the logic. It's the execution I have issues with, and the forced destruction of the relays and the absence of a less dark personal fate for Shepard in the Synthesis (which is easy to headcanon around, but I still resent its absence Why not give high War Assets benefits to all endings?).

Modifié par Ieldra2, 05 mars 2012 - 06:28 .

[BlackFriar]

minormiracle wrote...

It's a space opera about the galactic extionction cycle. How do you think it was supposed to end? Just look at the BSG reboot and where they ended up.

I bought the mini-series.   I bought season one.    Then I stopped buying BG sets because I saw where they were going and it was stupid.


BioWare does the same thing.   BioWare gets punished.   I won't buy stuff that's bad in the third or fourth installment because your first book or your first movie was good...      It's not a contract.    I owe you nothing.   If you don't prepare what I can live with (and I can accept some fairly big difference in story direction from what I'd personally like to see) I won't buy your garbage.

[txgoldrush]

Jynthor wrote...

Deus Ex Invisible War does not exist, stop posting this hoax.

Its far from a bad game, in fact the storyline and characters were better than the original while the gameplay is worse.

Human Revolution surpasses both

[SovereignWillReturn]

txgoldrush wrote...

Jynthor wrote...

Deus Ex Invisible War does not exist, stop posting this hoax.

Its far from a bad game, in fact the storyline and characters were better than the original while the gameplay is worse.

Human Revolution surpasses both

I didn't ask for this.

[raider_1001]

Deus Ex's ending was good, but not because of the endings themselves are epic/satisfying/etc, it is because each of the three endings made a strong case why it is the best ending during the course of the game, yet none of the endings are the ultimate/perfect ending for the game. The thing I remember the most about the Deus Ex endgame was that I have to think hard between choosing either power, stability or freedom for the human race, and once I choose one ending I immediately regret it and started to backtrack and choose the other ending. So if the ME3 endings has any hope of copying the Deus Ex's goodness, the entire story has to matching Deus Ex in its persuasiveness, presentation and depth. Otherwise it's just a lame philosophical debate geared towards the Sunday church crowd.

(Yeah, and DX:IW ruined Deus Ex's ending by stating that all three endings happened simultaneously. Way to ruin two games in one stroke.)