298 réponses à ce sujet

[Statulos]

Alarna wrote...

That's horrible.
I don't think it's a good idea to newborn an old god....child or not...more than ever it's raised by Morrigan. Selfish and only interested in herself and power.

I decides to stop playing after Redcliffe, I will not end the game. Maybe in the future it's possible with a mod.

That has already happened: Anora and Connor. And well, both can be dealt with.

Modifié par Statulos, 10 décembre 2009 - 05:18 .

[Wrathra]

Yelina wrote...

you are correct in this but quite silly since its a diplomatic gathering of nobles that results in a death of one of its guests lol I am to blame for that death becuase Allistair clearly looks to me to make the final decision and I do not have a choice as to what it is!

Silly to you and me, absolutely.  But these characters live in a much more brutal society than we do, where hostile take overs (Howe/Couslands), warring banns, etc, were not all that uncommon, well until the land was united under Calahad or whatever his name is.  Ferelden was basically warring tribes.

Even in American politics there were duels to the death. Alexander Hamilton was fatally wounded in one by the sitting VP of the United States.  Andrew Jackson was in at least two, though some speculate it was many more than that.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

Anyway, my point is, as annoying as it is (esp. the nodding thing - I agree with you 100% here), Alistair lopping off a traitor's head in a duel isn't that far out.

Modifié par Wrathra, 10 décembre 2009 - 05:25 .

[Wrathra]

Double post.

Modifié par Wrathra, 10 décembre 2009 - 05:25 .

[sapphyreelf]

Since I dueled Loghain myself, I got to choose to either execute him or have Alistair do it. I had no qualms about doing it - in front of the Landsmeet and in front of his daughter. The man abandoned his rightful king and friend's son to die on the battlefield. On top of that, he supported my character's archnemasis after Howe butchered the Couslands.



Oddly enough, after reading The Calling and what Maric did to some other nobles, I don't find it far fetching to see this happening at the Landsmeet.

[Zeluna]

Wrathra wrote...

Yelina wrote...

you are correct in this but quite silly since its a diplomatic gathering of nobles that results in a death of one of its guests lol I am to blame for that death becuase Allistair clearly looks to me to make the final decision and I do not have a choice as to what it is!

Silly to you and me, absolutely.  But these characters live in a much more brutal society than we do, where hostile take overs (Howe/Couslands), warring banns, etc, were not all that uncommon, well until the land was united under Calahad or whatever his name is.  Ferelden was basically warring tribes.

Even in American politics there were duels to the death. Alexander Hamilton was fatally wounded in one by the sitting VP of the United States.  Andrew Jackson was in at least two, though some speculate it was many more than that.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

Anyway, my point is, as annoying as it is (esp. the nodding thing - I agree with you 100% here), Alistair lopping off a traitor's head in a duel isn't that far out.

The way nobles in medeival Europe acted in public and in private was very radically different. I can not think of any person in the past nobility who publicly killed another. They always had someone else do it or away from many prying eyes so they could not be found out.

[Yorleen]

sapphyreelf wrote...

Oddly enough, after reading The Calling and what Maric did to some other nobles, I don't find it far fetching to see this happening at the Landsmeet.

The fact it happens at the Landsmeet didn't shock me. The fact it's done in front of his own daughter, being so close that she gets covered in her father's blood does however.

[Wrathra]

Yelina wrote...

The way nobles in medeival Europe acted in public and in private was very radically different. I can not think of any person in the past nobility who publicly killed another. They always had someone else do it or away from many prying eyes so they could not be found out.

True, kings and the catholic church tried to outlaw dueling in medieval Europe, however, it did still occur.

But (and there is always a but), Ferelden is not medieval Europe, and it isn't America, so both our arguments here are pointless

However, Ferelden is a brutal society where warring nobles were not uncommon, and as Sappyelf (i think it was her) said, Maric did set a precident for lopping off heads at the landsmeet.

I apologize if it seems I'm argumentative, I'm not, I just enjoy debating.  

[SleepyBird]

I was a little taken aback when the decision came down to a duel, since I thought we were there to come to a diplomatic agreement, but eh, medieval society, what can ya do? I let Alistair fight the duel since it just seemed appropriate, so I had no idea there was even an option to spare Loghain or make him a Warden until I came to forums after I was all finished.



While I was surprised that the landsmeet decision came down to a duel, once that point had been reached, it seemed appropriate to just kill the bugger. The time for diplomacy had passed.

[SarEnyaDor]

Read some Gregory of Tours, it's chocked full of whom killed whom and why. Bruhmehilde was especially violent and murderous.

[Zeluna]

sapphyreelf wrote...

Since I dueled Loghain myself, I got to choose to either execute him or have Alistair do it. I had no qualms about doing it - in front of the Landsmeet and in front of his daughter. The man abandoned his rightful king and friend's son to die on the battlefield. On top of that, he supported my character's archnemasis after Howe butchered the Couslands.

Oddly enough, after reading The Calling and what Maric did to some other nobles, I don't find it far fetching to see this happening at the Landsmeet.

It would have been impossible for me to kill Loghain by myself. My archer excels at extreme range assault. 52m long range crossbow is where its at in this game. My single highest hit with my crossbow is 546. I can take a yellow-lettered mob down to half-health with my opening shot and sometimes kill them outright. In melee, with a fighter like Loghain, I would get slaughtered fast. Archers are very weak to plate wearing 2-handers up close. Allistair was my tank. He was the obvious choice.

Modifié par Yelina, 10 décembre 2009 - 05:47 .

[SarEnyaDor]

Who else did you have in your party? You can choose anyone in your party to be your champion.



You could have had Dog do it!! LOL

[Mithelemir]

[/quote]

Just to say, I'm definitely not a fan of the choice. To me it feels like a unnecessary "screw you" to the player; I realize its not intended that way. But when this scenario plays out....that was my reaciton.

I suppose dark sex is popular amongst authors though, a lot of sci-fi and fantasy writers like it. So *shrugs*.

[/quote]

Regrettably, I have to agree with this comment...Although, given the nature of designing/programming such a game, I must question why would you ever think that it was "not intended".  On the contrary, it takes some premeditated thinking to ensure that a no-way-out scenario is carefully coreographed.

When the game designers intentionally confine you to a limited set of choices, all of which are miserable and all of which stray into the area of emotional sadism, you have to pause and take a seriously critical look at the bitter
sociapath(s) who took you through 100+ hours of gameplay, only to knee you in the groin for some closer-undefined, deranged pleasure.

Modifié par Mithelemir, 10 décembre 2009 - 05:52 .

[Zeluna]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

Who else did you have in your party? You can choose anyone in your party to be your champion.

You could have had Dog do it!! LOL

I stopped using my Mabari after level 12 where he was becoming completely useless to me in fights. The Mabari hound is neat but extremely weak when facing many opponents at once. Allistair at level 20 with the right talents is a very good tank. Better then Shale imo. Shale has some neat abilities but to go toe to toe with Dragons and such, Allistair rocks with Wynne as his pocket healer. With me dpsing and Morigan providing the much needed CC (crowd control) with her frost abilities. This is just a great almost perfect team.

Modifié par Yelina, 10 décembre 2009 - 06:01 .

[Zeluna]

Mithelemir wrote...


Just to say, I'm definitely not a fan of the choice. To me it feels like a unnecessary "screw you" to the player; I realize its not intended that way. But when this scenario plays out....that was my reaciton.

I suppose dark sex is popular amongst authors though, a lot of sci-fi and fantasy writers like it. So *shrugs*.

Regrettably, I have to agree with this comment...Although, given the nature of designing/programming such a game, I must question why would you ever think that it was "not intended".  On the contrary, it takes some premeditated thinking to ensure that a no-way-out scenario is carefully coreographed.

When the game designers intentionally confine you to a limited set of choices, all of which are miserable and all of which stray into the area of emotional sadism, you have to pause and take a seriously critical look at the bitter
sociapath(s) who took you through 100+ hours of gameplay, only to knee you in the groin for some closer-undefined, deranged pleasure.

2 parts in this game left me sick to my stomache. When I sided against Wynne in the Circle Tower and she died I had to reload the game to an earlier decision point. To kill such a noble wonderful personality just left me completely empty. The other was when Loghain died. There was no save for this as there is no choice that I am aware of to let him live.

Don't get me wrong Loghain is a bastard but also a very intriguing character that is very complex and I would love to see him come back in future expantions. But that is just not possible as I can see it.

Modifié par Yelina, 10 décembre 2009 - 05:57 .

[ChemicalGreen]

Yelina wrote...


The way nobles in medeival Europe acted in public and in private was very radically different. I can not think of any person in the past nobility who publicly killed another. They always had someone else do it or away from many prying eyes so they could not be found out.

Eh, I really have to say that you simply cannot make such an over-arching generalization. Medival Europe was composed of fiefdoms and small kingdoms (Germany for instance was not a nation, it was over 1600 little "kingdoms" with each of their own king or prince), there was no unity beyond religion and sometimes language. The real-politik varied from time and place to a particular culture. Italian merchant princes dealt with their political struggles quite differently from German kings.

That said, human nature is human nature, and that's why kings employed executioners and assassins.

[Zeluna]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

Who else did you have in your party? You can choose anyone in your party to be your champion.

You could have had Dog do it!! LOL

You gotta have a tank go against Loghain or it will be a total pot-fest trying to sustain his dps. He hits pretty hard even against a tank like Allistair. I do recall a 52ish hit or so against him on a few occasions. Shale is the next best tank and the others are too far specced in other talents to remake them into a true formidable tank. I do have my other 2-hander, plate wearing characters have a sword/shield combo in their alternate weapon choice but thats only for a when they are getting swarmed and pulling aggro too fast too soon.

[Yorleen]

Zouns wrote...
I just wouldn't want him to father a demon child whom could cause major catasthropy in the future.

The child won't necessarily be evil. It's the soul of the old god which is transfered inside the foetus... Of course we don't know what are Morrigan's intentions in raising him/her.

[syllogi]

Yelina wrote...

SarEnyaDor wrote...

Who else did you have in your party? You can choose anyone in your party to be your champion.

You could have had Dog do it!! LOL

You gotta have a tank go against Loghain or it will be a total pot-fest trying to sustain his dps. He hits pretty hard even against a tank like Allistair. I do recall a 52ish hit or so against him on a few occasions. Shale is the next best tank and the others are too far specced in other talents to remake them into a true formidable tank. I do have my other 2-hander, plate wearing characters have a sword/shield combo in their alternate weapon choice but thats only for a when they are getting swarmed and pulling aggro too fast too soon.

Haha, try dueling Loghain using Morrigan or a PC mage with Cone of Cold, Crushing Prison, and/or Petrify; there was no need for pots because he never actually hit Morrigan once.  Whenever paralysis dropped on him, the pathetic psycho would just War Cry while I froze him again to wail on him some more.  Hilariously easy.

[ChemicalGreen]

Yelina wrote...

SarEnyaDor wrote...

Who else did you have in your party? You can choose anyone in your party to be your champion.

You could have had Dog do it!! LOL

You gotta have a tank go against Loghain or it will be a total pot-fest trying to sustain his dps. He hits pretty hard even against a tank like Allistair. I do recall a 52ish hit or so against him on a few occasions. Shale is the next best tank and the others are too far specced in other talents to remake them into a true formidable tank. I do have my other 2-hander, plate wearing characters have a sword/shield combo in their alternate weapon choice but thats only for a when they are getting swarmed and pulling aggro too fast too soon.

Easiest way, hands down, is to have a mage with crushing prison duel him. Imprison Loghain and just giggle while you release the rest of your dps spells on his twitching, paralyzed form. He never gets a hit in.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Zeleen wrote...

Well, I am truly enjoying my "romance" with Allister.. I am a noble and did lick the lamp post in my origin story.. I'm a good girl but, no saint... but, I did not tell Allister .. I lied knowing that he was naive and innocent.and VERY "old fashioned"

I am looking forward to more special encounters and definitely will "make a deal" with M so we can live happily for whatever time... it's only 1 night (and a few minutes) versus a lifetime....

You.. you.. HARLOT!

[Varenus Luckmann]

Yorleen wrote...

Zouns wrote...
I just wouldn't want him to father a demon child whom could cause major catasthropy in the future.

The child won't necessarily be evil. It's the soul of the old god which is transfered inside the foetus... Of course we don't know what are Morrigan's intentions in raising him/her.

And for that we have only Morrigan's word.

[SarEnyaDor]

I've killed Loghain with every one of my party members, so no one would be left out. LOL



Mages have the easiest time, Sten and Ogrhen have the hardest time, everyone else in the middle.



Alistair was sort of hard too, just like when you fight your dopplegangers, as he and Loghain had alot of similar talents.

[Loki330]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

Yorleen wrote...

Zouns wrote...
I just wouldn't want him to father a demon child whom could cause major catasthropy in the future.

The child won't necessarily be evil. It's the soul of the old god which is transfered inside the foetus... Of course we don't know what are Morrigan's intentions in raising him/her.

And for that we have only Morrigan's word.

True, but Morrigan isn't stupid and neither is Flemeth, who she probably got the spell off. If my memory serves, the god has been corrupted via the taint. Hence this will 'restore' the soul to it's original soul, as it will be removed from a darkspawn corrupted body.

[Yorleen]

I don't see Morrigan as someone evil, she won't necessarily lead the child on the path to darkness...

[Wrathra]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

And for that we have only Morrigan's word.

Maybe this is naive of me, but Morrigan never came across as evil to me. Her mother, either (well, until I found out about the body swapping thing). Different - yeah, pragmatic - absolutely, self-serving - definitely, but Morrigan especially never struck me as evil. A stone hearted b!tch at times, certainly, but not evil.  I'm a stone hearted b!tch at times. But anyway...

Alot of what we knew about the Witch of the Wilds was superstition and legend, they were apostates, evil in the eyes of the Chantry and the Templars. Flemeth and Morrigan helped the wardens twice, once preserving the treaties and returning them and secondly, saving them from the tower, which is more than the Chantry did.   Technically, it was more than alot of people did. Hell, the Templars backed out on their promise to help you in the Tower (I know they do if the mages are wiped out, but still)

I, for one, think that some things, some traditions, some knowledge should be preserved (think of how advanced we would be if the library at Alexandria was not  destroyed). The Chantry's efforts to wipe out unsanctioned magic is abhorrent to me, much more than Morrigan.  Could that come back and bite me in the ****, absolutely - I'm not stupid. But I give her the benefit of the doubt.  I felt she was owed that much.

I had no reason to think Morrigan was out to create some world-eating evil demon-child.  She said she wanted to preserve something old and endangered, and I believed her.

Modifié par Wrathra, 10 décembre 2009 - 07:35 .