298 réponses à ce sujet

[nos_astra]

ejoslin wrote...
Even if your approval is at 99 love, he will refuse to marry your
character because of children, yet at 100 friendly (never romanced), he
will marry your character.

Which is kind of weird. The marriage makes no sense then (to me). I could imagine him marrying his love for selfish reasons (and love it, Ferelden is save for now, so let's have things our way once, we've earned it) but since there will be no heir, it's kind of crazy he'll marry is assumed best friend. Why would he do so? Why would she do so?

I can only think of metagaming reasons for doing so, because it's fun to try all possible endings. :innocent:

[ejoslin]

klarabella wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Even if your approval is at 99 love, he will refuse to marry your
character because of children, yet at 100 friendly (never romanced), he
will marry your character.

Which is kind of weird. The marriage makes no sense then (to me). I could imagine him marrying his love for selfish reasons (and love it, Ferelden is save for now, so let's have things our way once, we've earned it) but since there will be no heir, it's kind of crazy he'll marry is assumed best friend. Why would he do so? Why would she do so?

I can only think of metagaming reasons for doing so, because it's fun to try all possible endings. :innocent:

Don't forget that she's a Cousland and stopping the civil war is of the most importance.  Bryce Cousland had been  just as powerful as Loghain, and more loved and respected.  Not having an heir is a serious issue, but having a wife he trusts completely is also important.  So if he trusts the PC completely (100), and the marriage will being the civil war to an end, she makes sense.

Why would the PC marry Alistair as a political arrangement?  She knows how weak he is and loves her country.  And honestly, if the PC has never romanced Alistair, it's very clear that the people view her as their ruler (if you ever romanced him, they view her as he beloved bride).

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 janvier 2010 - 01:03 .

[nos_astra]

She knows how weak he is and loves her country.

If you roleplay this, it makes sense. You aren't obliged to do so but you can, I see. But she could be chancellor, rule the country and let him be free to marry someone else. Why would she insist on marrying him?

... it's very clear that the people view her as their ruler.

Hardened makes a difference on some of the epilogues. Doesn't it here?

[ejoslin]

klarabella wrote...

She knows how weak he is and loves her country.

If you roleplay this, it makes sense. You aren't obliged to do so but you can, I see. But she could be chancellor, rule the country and let him be free to marry someone else. Why would she insist on marrying him?

... it's very clear that the people view her as their ruler.

Hardened makes a difference on some of the epilogues. Doesn't it here?

No.  Hardened Alistair is not a stronger person, he's a more selfish person.  In the epilogue, if you've never romanced Ali, hardened or not, the PC is viewed as the much loved ruler and savior of her country.  If you romanced him ever, even if you dumped him way before the landsmeet, even if you never slept with him, the people view you as his beloved bride.

And why she would marry him?  To be queen.  To bring the civil war to a close (same reason Alistair would marry Anora).

Edit: And you can still be Chancellor if you marry him.  That just gets you another epilogue card.  The ruler and savior is due to marrying Ali not-romanced, not from being chancellor.  You're a wildly popular chancellor, though, who spends more time on the throne than Ali does.

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 janvier 2010 - 01:27 .

[nos_astra]

When being made king on his own, the personality switch to more selfish causes him to study "the art of ruling". It pretty much means he's in charge. When married to Anora it causes him to defer to her by decision and learn from her, I understood.



So you're absolutely sure when marrying him as a friend his personality doesn't matter because you as the hero of Ferelden overshine him so much? Maybe it's just that. What the common people see and what is going on behind the scenes may vary. Same goes for the beloved bride thing. :-)



So everyone writes the story of his own. That's why I love the game so much.

[ejoslin]

klarabella wrote...

When being made king on his own, the personality switch to more selfish causes him to study "the art of ruling". It pretty much means he's in charge. When married to Anora it causes him to defer to her by decision and learn from her, I understood.

So you're absolutely sure when marrying him as a friend his personality doesn't matter because you as the hero of Ferelden overshine him so much? Maybe it's just that. What the common people see and what is going on behind the scenes may vary. Same goes for the beloved bride thing. :-)

So everyone writes the story of his own. That's why I love the game so much.

I'm farily sure it's irrelevant whether he's hardened or not.  It's on the epilogue card that talks about their lavish wedding.  If Ali is in love or still in love (romanced or dumped), the people are delighted at how much he loves his bride.  If they're just friends, the PC is wildly popular as their new ruler and savior.

[Raoune]

As a Dwarven Noble, and having chosen a certain new King for Orzammar, doing the ritual seemed like the only option, despite my characters opposition to Blood Magic in Redcliffe.



Aeducan always intended to return to Orzammar, and put Harrowmont on the throne as a trade off for being his heir, or at least a paragon. Alistair (though I put Anora on the throne) is still Marics son and a symbol of hope for Ferelden. And on an emotional level, she'd lost Gorim, she sure as hell wasn't about to lose another lover.



It was sad though, after Alistair claiming that she was his first, and he hoped she would be his only sexual partner. But hey... at least they're both on an even keel now

[Querne]

klarabella wrote...

Depends on what you want to believe. If you befriend Morrigan you might see her a little different. Of course selfish still (that doesn't go away) but there's more to her. I prefer to think that if she has a bond of friendship (or love) with the PC she'll persue her plans (not outright evil but not good either) but she'll miss your PC and your party - probably even Alistair - after she leaves.

It's just a question of perspective. But I see that you may have a hard time when you're stuck with your first character and the poor thing is not having her happily ever after ending. Some never get over it, I understand. Good for me that my first PC was only a test on PS3 - an elven mage. Ha! I'm so lucky that I love to spoil myself. ;-)

I´m not sure.
I had 100 app with Morrigan far before I even knew about the ritual, used all talking options, killed the Dragon for her.. and somekind like her, yes. Most of her bad attributes are easy to explain (f.e. what her mother told her about men) but this doesn´t change my attitude to this dialogue. It´s Morrigan at her worst for me. Her selfconfidence goes over every friendship in my opinion. Besides this is the dialogue every player gets and the same for Loghain I think, so perhaps it would have changed the situation if Bioware had removed this line for players romancing Alistair.
Well, it´s not the only scene where regarding personal decisions ingame would make the game better.
  
@ ejosclin:

Well..dumping Zevran during an savegame experiment brought me -27 or something like that.
Nice for somebody who claimed, that it doesn´t matter.^^

I´m wondering how I can avoid Alistairs invitation to the tent having high approval. Not sure if the licking lamp post dialouge triggers it.

[ejoslin]

Querne wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Depends on what you want to believe. If you befriend Morrigan you might see her a little different. Of course selfish still (that doesn't go away) but there's more to her. I prefer to think that if she has a bond of friendship (or love) with the PC she'll persue her plans (not outright evil but not good either) but she'll miss your PC and your party - probably even Alistair - after she leaves.

It's just a question of perspective. But I see that you may have a hard time when you're stuck with your first character and the poor thing is not having her happily ever after ending. Some never get over it, I understand. Good for me that my first PC was only a test on PS3 - an elven mage. Ha! I'm so lucky that I love to spoil myself. ;-)

I´m not sure.
I had 100 app with Morrigan far before I even knew about the ritual, used all talking options, killed the Dragon for her.. and somekind like her, yes. Most of her bad attributes are easy to explain (f.e. what her mother told her about men) but this doesn´t change my attitude to this dialogue. It´s Morrigan at her worst for me. Her selfconfidence goes over every friendship in my opinion. Besides this is the dialogue every player gets and the same for Loghain I think, so perhaps it would have changed the situation if Bioware had removed this line for players romancing Alistair.
Well, it´s not the only scene where regarding personal decisions ingame would make the game better.
  
@ ejosclin:

Well..dumping Zevran during an savegame experiment brought me -27 or something like that.
Nice for somebody who claimed, that it doesn´t matter.^^

I´m wondering how I can avoid Alistairs invitation to the tent having high approval. Not sure if the licking lamp post dialouge triggers it.

Heh, learned the hard way did you that what Zevran says he feels and what he actually feels are two very different things, hmmmm.  I never dump him -- he's the most loyal and rewarding of the romance options.  Alistair, depending on how you dump him and when, will actually approve.

Edit: Actually, there are a few times earlier that Zevran indicates it's far more than casual for him.  As in, he asks about your future together before going to the tent is even an option.

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 janvier 2010 - 07:14 .

[Querne]

Yes he IS more loyal than Alistair, regarding his loyality to the PC and not the Grey Wardens, Ferelden, some butterflies passing and all the other things for witch A l i s t a i r feels some kind of duty. Romancing both was an accident and sad in consequence. Unluckily as you said, I didn´t take really seriously talking to him until I found out that HE did.

[ejoslin]

Querne wrote...

Yes he IS more loyal than Alistair, regarding his loyality to the PC and not the Grey Wardens, Ferelden, some butterflies passing and all the other things for witch A l i s t a i r feels some kind of duty. Romancing both was an accident and sad in consequence. Unluckily as you said, I didn´t take really seriously talking to him until I found out that HE did.

If you take the Zevran romance to the end, it's way deeper than the Alistair one, believe it or not, and done right, has the most romantic closure to it (even moreso than the middle of the Alistair romance, when that one is at its best).  Also, there are circumstances where Alistair quits the gray wardens, so his loyalty to them may not be as great as he proclaims.  I can think of two endings where Ali quits the gray wardens, one where he ends up a drunk, and one where he just ends up disappearing after quitting.  Alistair without a strong person backing him is quite sad, actually, hardened or not.

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 janvier 2010 - 07:31 .

[nos_astra]

It's not so hard being loyal if there are exactly ZERO reasons not to be. He simply has no duties and is free to go wherever he wants. What are the odds against that?



But I agree - more dialogue after tent time with Alistair would be nice.

[Querne]

He has also an loyality problem, what can be seen when he meets his former friend from the Crows. His desicion was influenced by app for the PC as far as I remember. Beeing pursued or killed by worlds best assasins is nothing I would call zero.

Of course depending on his Origin Alistair has more duties but even at his best (unhardened) he doubts if the romance will go on.

[ejoslin]

klarabella wrote...

It's not so hard being loyal if there are exactly ZERO reasons not to be. He simply has no duties and is free to go wherever he wants. What are the odds against that?

But I agree - more dialogue after tent time with Alistair would be nice.

Except, of course, he's running for his life from the crows . . .  sticking in one place makes them a lot more likely to find him.  And there's loyalty and LOYALTY.  Alistair has a vow to the Gray Wardens, which he almost always (but not always) keeps.  If you've romanced Alistair and been at 100 love, yes, if one of you is going to die and he's there, he'll be the one.  However, his reason is that he doesn't want to see you die.  He will also admit that part of it is the glory, that songs will be sung of him and he wants to go down in history as a hero.  Zevran is actually the first to tell you that a gray warden is going to die, and whether you're a lover or a friend, he believes or hopes that he will be able to die in your place.  There's no glory in it for him, unlike Alistair.  He's taken no vow, unlike Alistair.  And it's not to prevent heartbreak as he says this if you've never romanced him as well -- there's a selflessness to Zevran that Alistair cannot rival.  That's not to say there isn't a lot wonderful about Alistair, but the loyalty and selflessness that Zevran demonstrates is unmatched.  And extremely touching.

[Aladisa]

Well i think an heir would still be possible just won't be your baby.Hire a surrogate lol!

[ejoslin]

Aladisa wrote...

Well i think an heir would still be possible just won't be your baby.Hire a surrogate lol!

You do have an option to tell Alistair it won't be HIS baby as well.  If you're friendly, -5 approval, but he's ok with it.  If you're love, -15 approval and he's mad :innocent:

[xgiovedi]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

Who else did you have in your party? You can choose anyone in your party to be your champion.

You could have had Dog do it!! LOL

I know this post is a month old, but you can't have Dog be your champion. As awesome and sort of humiliating it would be for Loghain, Eamon (I think) says "You cannot have your Mabari be your champion. Anyone with a ham bone could sway his vote."

Yet you can Shapeshift into a bear and defeat him this way.

I did feel ill having Alistair sleep with Morrigan and impregnate her. I like to think he imagined it was my PC during the act lol. Him once saying "You are the first I've been with and the last I want to be with" (paraphrasing) always stuck in my memories.

I do feel it is a little cold to say "Oh, shut up, all he has to do is sleep with a smokin hot mage and you get to live." Yeah, but Bioware set the romance up to have him extremely dedicated and devoted to your PC. For some people with no clue of this surprise, who had really involved themselves with the relationship, it is a bit of a jolt.

[ejoslin]

Querne wrote...

He has also an loyality problem, what can be seen when he meets his former friend from the Crows. His desicion was influenced by app for the PC as far as I remember. Beeing pursued or killed by worlds best assasins is nothing I would call zero.
Of course depending on his Origin Alistair has more duties but even at his best (unhardened) he doubts if the romance will go on.

Hmmm, this isn't really a loyalty problem.  If he's below 33 approval, yes, he'll turn on you.  Having him at that low of approval means you either ignored him the entire time or were rude to him.  It is so easy to raise his loyalty even without gifts, and if you give him his gifts, even if you do ignore him, he'll be high enough not to betray you. And why would you expect any different?   I always find it funny when people are surprised he turns on you since you really have to make an effort to not raise his approval.  Heck, Alistair may turn on you at 100 love (maybe justified, maybe not, I'm not arguing that one either way here).  Wynne and Leliana will also turn on you if you do something they disagree with no matter how high the approval.  As will Shale. 

[Thor Rand Al]

RGC_Ines wrote...

For all those women who don't want to let Alistair sleep with Morrigan here is a hint:

WARNING YOU HAVE TO BE CHEATER !!!!

I tried it once and it worked for me, but I think I should try it once again, to be sure if it work really or it was just a luck . I played from my old save game before Landsmeet.
-I killed Loghain
-Alistair become King with my noble PC as his Queen
-in Redclif we talked with Riordan
-I agreed to talk to Alistair about ritual
-I used cheat runscript zz_addparty Loghain
-with Loghain I went back to Riordan, and Loghain said to my PC that he will sacrifice himself
-I talked with Alistair but I didn't said about Ritual to him
-I told Morrigan, that I refuse her offer
-I didn't take Alistair with me when I went to kill archdemon ( becouse I wasn't sure who will die there)
-After fight with archdemon there's cut scene that PC killed demon but don't worry about this
-at the end my PC survived and I had happy ending without sex between Ali & Morrigan

I did this 1 too n you were right on not taking Alistair to kill the archdemon because the game doesn't recongnize Loghain so Alistair does the final killing blow if you don't leave him at the gate...  I've played every ending so I didn't feel bad about doin this cheat cause of the simple fact I'd already gotten my every possible ending achievement lol... But that won't stop me from continuing on playing this game... The only thing about the ending though is that after the archdemon is dead when you're talking to Alistair the game got confused n it kind of hinted around about you doin the ritual with Morrigan (n you're female hmm) anyways thats the only glitch I saw, when it's telling you about what happened to everyone in the game there's no mention of Morrigan being with baby lol... if 1 doesn't like cheating don't use this cheat, if you want to keep Alistair n yourself but don't want to have Morrigan touching your man n you're both alive at the end living happily ever after use this cheat; it does work but make sure you leave Alistair at the gate or he will sacrifice himself lol...

[Xandurpein]

Maybe there should just be an option to adopt Alistair and be his mother instead. Just a thought...

[eschilde]

@Xandurpein

If Maric shows up in Awakening and is romanceable, you'll break some peoples' brains ^^

[ejoslin]

Xandurpein wrote...

Maybe there should just be an option to adopt Alistair and be his mother instead. Just a thought...

THAT I would do.  My PC felt like his momma anyway . . .

[Thor Rand Al]

Xandurpein wrote...

Maybe there should just be an option to adopt Alistair and be his mother instead. Just a thought...

lmao um I don't think I could do that, I've already romanced Alistair n that would seem just a lil creepy too me to be able to adopt him n be his mommy lmao... But that could work if you never had a um romantic thought with Alistair... That make his day lmao... He lost Duncan, he never knew his father, his mother died giving birth to him, his brother never gave a tinkers a** about him, his sister's a gold-digging harlott, Arl Eamon sent him to the chantry for his wife's sake, ya Alistair def might like the idea of having another mother lol... But she has to be immortal so he doesn't lose someone else he's come to care for.

[Querne]

@ ejosclin:
I wanted to show with this sentence, that it´s not true, that it´s as easy Zevran to be loyal as klarabella wrote (read the "nothing I would call zero" - part of my post) .But btw. YES, turning against you if you don´t have more than 33 IS for me clearly a loyality problem. It might be players fault or not, but clearly disaccords to what he said before about following you. And no, in my opinion it is not easy to rise his approval if you are a rouge yourself so actually don´t need him in your party and his appearance is triggered late.


Nah, I don´t mind beeing nice to somebody who has lost a beloved person some days ago and yes, most people are sad if their only familiy member left turns out to be a bi***.
And if Alistair would lead the party as well we could rename the game to Alistairs Age. No, didn´t feel motherly about him.
But show me a nice pic of Maric and a time machine and perhaps I will overthink it.^^

Modifié par Querne, 12 janvier 2010 - 06:16 .