298 réponses à ce sujet

[Jacks-Up]

Querne wrote...

First of all I love this game, perhaps more than is good for me, if you take a
look at the problems I´ve got now.

I´m playing through as city elf for the very first time now, romancing Alistair.

I spoilered myself accidently searching for something other and know now, that I
will have to let  Alistair sleep with Morrigan to save us both.

I..don´t want to.
Really, really don´t want!
Looking at my char talking to him I usually grine at the monitor because they act so lovely.
I also refused to "harden" him during Goldanna Quest because it would feel like
breaking his character to me.
I can live without becoming queen (I know I can play a noble next time, but
playing first time causes more emotions and it won´t be the same. I´m a little
bit sad, that there aren´t special options for the other  backgrounds), but
giving him to Morrigan tastes damned bitter.

I think it´s a little bit unfair towards girls, because guys romance either
Morrigan anyways or can fullfill the ritual without that Liliana knows (as far I
read in forums) wich is not the same
as "Please darling, be as nice and sleep with the aunt, I really don´t mind. May
I watch?"
Would be nice if the gamedesigner could consider next time, that women are
generally not very good in separating sex and love..but I think in RL most
people wouldn´t be very happy with this situation..

Otherwise I can´t let him die of course. I´m neither keen on dying myself.

Has anybody experimented with keeping Alistair in the party and getting Loghain
anyhow?
Is this really impossible? Really-really?
Can´t I preach about forgivingness for some decades till Alistair gets the clue or something like that?
That would allow to sacrifice Loghain instead.

Any other ideas?

I would quest to hell and back for a real happy ending btw..

Let Loghain live and when the expansion or sequel comes out the cry baby known as Alistair will be over it.

[Fishy]

Querne wrote...

First of all I love this game, perhaps more than is good for me, if you take a
look at the problems I´ve got now.

I´m playing through as city elf for the very first time now, romancing Alistair.

I spoilered myself accidently searching for something other and know now, that I
will have to let  Alistair sleep with Morrigan to save us both.

I..don´t want to.
Really, really don´t want!
Looking at my char talking to him I usually grine at the monitor because they act so lovely.
I also refused to "harden" him during Goldanna Quest because it would feel like
breaking his character to me.
I can live without becoming queen (I know I can play a noble next time, but
playing first time causes more emotions and it won´t be the same. I´m a little
bit sad, that there aren´t special options for the other  backgrounds), but
giving him to Morrigan tastes damned bitter.

I think it´s a little bit unfair towards girls, because guys romance either
Morrigan anyways or can fullfill the ritual without that Liliana knows (as far I
read in forums) wich is not the same
as "Please darling, be as nice and sleep with the aunt, I really don´t mind. May
I watch?"
Would be nice if the gamedesigner could consider next time, that women are
generally not very good in separating sex and love..but I think in RL most
people wouldn´t be very happy with this situation..

Otherwise I can´t let him die of course. I´m neither keen on dying myself.

Has anybody experimented with keeping Alistair in the party and getting Loghain
anyhow?
Is this really impossible? Really-really?
Can´t I preach about forgivingness for some decades till Alistair gets the clue or something like that?
That would allow to sacrifice Loghain instead.

Any other ideas?

I would quest to hell and back for a real happy ending btw..

Well it's just sex .. She will just close the light and hump him until he come.It's not like they will make love or anything.Think of Morrigan more like a prostitute.

[DeathWyrmNexus]

vocalemuse wrote...

I actually had no problems at all letting Morrigan do the dark ritual, for one thing I don't think Alistair is "cheating" on your character as some have said, you asked him to sleep with her for crying out loud. xD He didn't go behind your back and do it, now THAT is what cheating would be. Secondly my character was friends with Morrigan, but even if she hadn't been... she knows that Morrigan doesn't like Alistair and vice versa, if she had another another male choice she'd likely go with him instead of Alistair; she even admits she'd have asked Riordan if the taint hadn't been so advanced in him already.

Not only that, but my character has no desire to ever see this child of hers and isn't going to track Morrigan down. Why? For the simple fact that Morrigan has been the must bluntly honest member of the group throughout the entirity of their adventures, regardless of the person's feelings she is speaking to. She sees no reason for her to suddenly start lying to them now, about why she wants the child and what she plans to do with it. I was honestly surprised that Alistair didn't seem too broken up over never being able to see the kid, but that works for my character just fine. XD

Excellent point, my friend. Morrigan is many things but a liar isn't one of them. A lie by omission perhaps but you never asked why she was along. She wants the blight destroyed and she wants the god baby. One of her grand traits is her brutal bluntness.

I didn't like the choice but Morrigan didn't really give me a reason not to believe her. So I fully expect to need to quest against that baby later but hey, I get some more years to live. Taking the ritual is a selfish decision so why half ass it? I'm happy that I get that time with Alistair and by I , I mean Rose and Langley. I'm not gay for Alistair, honest! :innocent:

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I agree. I didn't have a problem with Alistair and Morrigan sleeping together, mainly because it was necessary to save our lives. What did make it difficult was having to ask him to and getting him to do it, because he hates Morrigan, Morrigan hates him, so you have to make him do something he really doesn't want to. I felt that was actually more painful than the idea of the act itself.



And yes, Morrigan is a Beeeatch. But she's a brutally honest and pragmatic one. And as an apostate, she scores cool points alone for that little aspect. I really hate the chantry

[vocalemuse]

Yeah, I totally agree. I felt worse about asking him to do it than them doing the actual act itself. For my peace of mind I like assume it was just a quicky. xD Hahaha, then he goes back to my character for the rest of the night.

[tigrina]

imported_beer wrote...
In my case too, I am waiting for others to play it. Not because I think Bioware games need reviews. They are still IMO the best makers of RPGSs bar none. Their stories are superb, their characters amazing, but the direction DAO took was a tad dark for my taste and I need to see if I can personally handle this new direction.

This. I've forced myself through the end game once and I'll probably won't do that again. What hurts most is that you can, throughout the game, be heroic (with effort, but thats worth it), except at the ending. Well you can be the shiny hero, but then you die. Meh. (In my book there is nothing heroic in creating some demon-god baby for some witch.)

I love the game. Right till the Landsmeet. I can't imagine the BW crew really likes the idea that part of their player base wants to feed their game disks to Dog, but it certainly is something which crossed my mind several times. The kicking puppies and lying down in fetal position just didn't do the trick.

Modifié par tigrina, 06 décembre 2009 - 02:33 .

[Drunkencelt]

Querne wrote...

@ Riona 45:

Yes, I admit that loosing Morrigan can be also hard. But if you romanace her, at least she leaves with your child and not with Stens. Besides I think that leaving finally that goes with her character, while the ritual doesn´t go with Alistairs.

I understand what you mean - the game wouldn´t be as great without its sad and serious moments of course.

Despite that I would like to be given an option, even if it was hard, to let the two be happy together without making something such s disturbing decision.

***

You just say, that he wants only me.
In all nights after he´ll dream about the witch-b***ch..

Where and when did she leave with Sten's? Is this what is says if you don't romance her? Not sure since ive romanced her and Lelaine on every playthrough.

[kurairmorgan]

Drunkencelt wrote...

Where and when did she leave with Sten's? Is this what is says if you don't romance her? Not sure since ive romanced her and Lelaine on every playthrough.

That doesn't happen it was just an example.

I have to agree here with everyone else, I was heart broken  playing my first time as the city elf and I didn't want a romance with Alistair it just happened after that amulet thing he just stopped me while we were walking out of the temple I was going after Leliana actually  but once that happened I just went with it then I found out it could never work he was going to be king and someone had to die, the first time around I couldn't see him with Morrigan I mean we had just parted I thought the only way out would be death for my PC. It didn't go down the way I wanted and he died but there was a kiss I didn't expect  so I reloaded and sent him off with Morrigan that sat a little better than watching him die, but honestly I wanted my elf to die it felt like revenge  so all in all as the city elf I got three endings and none of them are very satisfying the death one was a little better cause I figured my little beaten elf wouldn't want to be around while he "secured an heir".

[Querne]

Suprez30 wrote...
Well it's just sex .. She will just close the light and hump him until he come.It's not like they will make love or anything.Think of Morrigan more like a prostitute.

Well, yes, sending her boyfriend to a prostitute makes the whole thing better of cause. ^^
NO, it doesn´t. Sorry, but in most universes women are not supposed to be happy if their beloved man attends prostitutes.

A downloaded some DLC and started some new characters but finally didn´t play anyone of them further than Ostagar.
My interest in future Add Ons or DA 2 has also shrinked because Morrigans child will play a bigger role of cause. The idea behind Origins is the basis for future games. To see the fate of their child is a nice idea to bind males players interest.
For the minor group of female players who had not the choice to be parent of a god and decided for the ritual because they didn´t want him do die or to loose him, it will be the fate of the child their beloved produced with another women (similar to a prostitute in this case). Might sound a little bit naiv, but I´m not really interested in.
Sheryl Chee wrote, that it´s just a tiny minority that romances with Alistair, but in fact I think that 97% of female players romance him sooner or later (even if just for fun) so she probably simply means the amount of female players generally.
I think that the god-baby HAS to be born for future development. It is quite simple to build that in for male players. They either romance Morrigan themselves ( I know it´s really hard for them when she leaves, but it is already announced that she will reappear sooner or later and somehow their child will be integrated either so, bear up! I root for you. ) or let Alistair do. They don´t have to choose between their romance and letting the fishy Anora on the throne either. Beside moral issue what she might do with it, there are no personal reasons not do do it.

To integrate this baby issue for female players is more complicated, so they are kind of forced into the ritual by loosing their romance otherwise. There are different gradiations of "loosing the relationship" like taking Loghain, dying, letting Alistair die (wich is, for most players no choice at all). Reading through the forums there are lots of players preffering to die instead of approving the ritual for different reasons (so it doesn´t seem to be as simple to do like ,mostly male, players claim), but I think that most players admit and courses are set for the future.

And no, it´s not fair, that male players mostly become the father of a god-like baby future games will probably be about and female mostly have to convince their partner to sleep with a beautiful women or to die. Or to let him die.
I don´t mind grey decisions generally and was quite happy with bioware games by now. But if I have to make a grey decision I don´t want to have the feeling that I just have to make it because I don´t belong to the main target audience of male players.
That´s not just the story, as it could be really ment to be like it is, but also some contradicitons apearring mainly during the "female path". 
Sometimes I don´t get the game industry. On the one hand they try to feed us with some pink flower-pet-bunny stuff noone over 10 years is interested in, on the other we are not considered (sufficiently) while creation of serious games.
Don´t get me wrong, for me it´s still a fantastic game. But I´m not overzealously about fanfiction and don´t like to be redirected to it when I buy a full prize game and additional DLC.

  

[Saurel]

Querne wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...
Well it's just sex .. She will just close the light and hump him until he come.It's not like they will make love or anything.Think of Morrigan more like a prostitute.

Well, yes, sending her boyfriend to a prostitute makes the whole thing better of cause. ^^
NO, it doesn´t. Sorry, but in most universes women are not supposed to be happy if their beloved man attends prostitutes.

Just to say, I'm definitely not a fan of the choice. To me it feels like a unnecessary "screw you" to the player; I realize its not intended that way. But when this scenario plays out....that was my reaciton.

I suppose dark sex is popular amongst authors though, a lot of sci-fi and fantasy writers like it. So *shrugs*.

[SarEnyaDor]

I prefer to die than to subject Alistair to Morrigan, almost under any scenario - if you are in a relationship or not... almost especially if you're not! Forgetting about the possible dire consequences which you have no real way of predicting at all, you are forcing a very nice man to lose his virginity to someone he detests in nearly every way. Way Harsh.



Morrigan can have Loghain. LOL

[Saurel]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

Forgetting about the possible dire consequences which you have no real way of predicting at all, you are forcing a very nice man to lose his virginity to someone he detests in nearly every way. Way Harsh.

You know this is why even as a guy I dislike the choice, I don't want to be a dad and I feel bad about forcing Morrigan on Alistair....

and Loghain and Morrigan....just seems

[tmp7704]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

Forgetting about the possible dire consequences which you have no real way of predicting at all, you are forcing a very nice man to lose his virginity to someone he detests in nearly every way. Way Harsh.

Alistair is fascinated with dark magic, and Morrigan is a very attractive witch. That's two strong attraction factors. Plus, men find certain appeal in being able to bed someone who's been acting obnoxious towards them.

I really don't think he detests this concept, as long as he isn't very interested in the player's own character at least. It's something in his delivery of that line "Let's see, die in fight with archdemon or sleep with Morrigan" ... you'd almost see him start mentally grin ear to ear as the idea sank in

[TomBrokaw]

lol. It's not a fanfic.

[SarEnyaDor]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion tmp7704, but I know lots of guys who regretted losing their virginity the way they did, and it didn't even involve anything shady or people they hated, just wish it had been with someone they cared about more/at all.



Are there guys out there who'll dip their stick into any place they can? Yes. Is Alistair one of them? No. And he's not just a made-up fictional stereotype, there are actually REAL men who think with their heads and hearts before they insert their apparatus.



Crazy, I know.

[tmp7704]

Well, i can't say Alistair strikes me as a type who could spend the journey of his life fighting alongside person like Morrigan and not develop /any/ sort of emotional reaction towards her, especially with all the attention she seemingly pays him. But of course this is just an opinion. In the end Flemeth was quite right and all we ever do is just believe in what we want to believe.

[Xandurpein]

Modifié par Xandurpein, 07 décembre 2009 - 11:50 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

tmp7704 wrote...

Well, i can't say Alistair strikes me as a type who could spend the journey of his life fighting alongside person like Morrigan and not develop /any/ sort of emotional reaction towards her, especially with all the attention she seemingly pays him. But of course this is just an opinion. In the end Flemeth was quite right and all we ever do is just believe in what we want to believe.

He did develop an emotional reaction. Loathing. Morrigan represents everything Alistair distrusts and hates: blind, unrelenting selfishness, a near total lack of compassion, manipulation, and a wanton disregard for the lack of other people's feelings or needs. Alistair is not going to to develop nice feelings about such a person, especially when said person has no intention of of becoming anything else. He'll work along side her because something bigger is at stake, but he sure as hell isn't going to grow warm and fuzzy, and she will continue to hold him in utter contempt.

And when you ask Alistair to to the ritual, it's clear he objects and finds the idea quite revolting on many levels, personal and moral. If you tell him he's off the hook, he's quite happy that he doesn't have to, despite that it mgiht mean he will die. Which is why I find the whole idea of actually coercing him to do the ritual harder to accept than the idea of the actual ritual itself, because you are ultimately trying to get him to do something utterly repugnant and undesireable to him.

Alistair is not ruled by his loins, and it takes alot more than a pretty face to develop any emotion. He's not going to develop feelings for a cold and utterly ruthless beeactch, no matter what the case. He lacks the hardness of heart and guile for such a situation.

Mind you, I don't dislike Morrigan at all. For the most part, I have quite a bit respect for her, and she represents the wild, powerful, wanton female despised and feared because of her refusal to submit to the norms and expectations of society. She does get unecessarily nasty at times, which is annoying, and seems to lack any real empathy or perspective regarding others. But it's the fact that Alistair hates her so much, yet you have to convince him to sleep with her to save both your lives that makes it so difficult.

[tmp7704]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

He did develop an emotional reaction. Loathing.

Very likely, which would make it a situation that can be hardly called "being with someone he doesn't care about"
In any case, having watched the relevant cinematic he seems to be smiling in the final part so, well.

[Visenya]

tmp7704 wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

He did develop an emotional reaction. Loathing.

Very likely, which would make it a situation that can be hardly called "being with someone he doesn't care about"
In any case, having watched the relevant cinematic he seems to be smiling in the final part so, well.

As a matter of fact Oghren told me Alistair asked him for something extra strong from his supply (Oghren's special brew it was) before he went to bed with Morrigan. Hence the smile.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

tmp7704 wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

He did develop an emotional reaction. Loathing.

Very likely, which would make it a situation that can be hardly called "being with someone he doesn't care about"
In any case, having watched the relevant cinematic he seems to be smiling in the final part so, well.

Um, I said loathing. In otherwords, despise. Hate. Can barely stomach. In my book, that generally means "does not care about". Caring about someone, last time I checked, involves the very opposite. And call me strange, but I generally do not find the idea of sex with someone I absolute hate/do not trust/makes skin crawl something that I would particularly enjoy/look forward to.

Alistair wasn't exactly smiling, either. In the cut scene, he had the look more of a helpless prey animal knowing they are about to get eaten alive, by a predator, with nowhere to run. And Morrigan looked every bit the cold blooded predator about to chomp.

Maybe you might find such a situation desirable and enjoyable, but for the most part, most people don't.

[tmp7704]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Um, I said loathing. In otherwords, despise. Hate. Can barely stomach. In my book, that generally means "does not care about". Caring about someone, last time I checked, involves the very opposite. And call me strange, but I generally do not find the idea of sex with someone I absolute hate/do not trust/makes skin crawl something that I would particularly enjoy/look forward to.

I understand, it's just i was originally responding to the point how some men could regret their "first time" was with a person they had no feelings for whatsoever (which i read as any feelings, be it positive or negative I was questioning if that's the case with Alistair and Morrigan, that's all.

As for you being strange no i don't think so, but at the same time the opposite stance isn't that uncommon, either. Enough to accept it as possibility imo. Only the writer of that scene will really know what's actually going through Alistair's head there. Would be interesting to read their take on it.

Modifié par tmp7704, 07 décembre 2009 - 05:22 .

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

He did develop an emotional reaction. Loathing.

Very likely, which would make it a situation that can be hardly called "being with someone he doesn't care about"
In any case, having watched the relevant cinematic he seems to be smiling in the final part so, well.

Um, I said loathing. In otherwords, despise. Hate. Can barely stomach. In my book, that generally means "does not care about". Caring about someone, last time I checked, involves the very opposite. And call me strange, but I generally do not find the idea of sex with someone I absolute hate/do not trust/makes skin crawl something that I would particularly enjoy/look forward to.

Alistair wasn't exactly smiling, either. In the cut scene, he had the look more of a helpless prey animal knowing they are about to get eaten alive, by a predator, with nowhere to run. And Morrigan looked every bit the cold blooded predator about to chomp.

Maybe you might find such a situation desirable and enjoyable, but for the most part, most people don't.

Ya, I saw a grimace and uncomfortable look on his face with Morrigan waltzing towards him...

I do agree that I was more disturbed by having to coerce him. Alistair has been bullied his whole life by his blood, his duty, and now the PC. Whenever I play, I try to bully him as little as possible. I see a lot of self doubt and even some self hatred in him. I'm most likely projecting but as a fellow bastard, I can sympathize with him. Nobody really gave him anything to aspire to. Even the Arl had him sleeping on hay and not a bed.

So when I played both of my female nobles, I spared him from being king. It felt nice to free him. I always felt that was what love really is. Freeing them and showing them that you pay attention and care about what they want. Rose and Ser Langley were Grey Wardens, their duty was to fight the Blight not try to become a princess/queen. So those girls did their duty to their order and their man. I like to think they felt bad about talking Alistair into sleeping with Morrigan but it was for their future together as Grey Wardens.

No senior wardens were likely to be left since Riordan was planning to make the strike and he already stated that he didn't think the taint would spare him long. Ergo, Grey Wardens who knew their **** needed to stick around. And... Alistair deserved to live and be with his love. So Rose and Ser Langley both talked him into making a sacrifice they would have gladly made if they could to spare him yet another horror.

I was rather happy with the romantic ending of being Wardens in love together. I'm a sap like that.

For those that give a damn, I made Rose after a lovely girl I know in CT and Ser Langley after a girl I know in Canada. They were consulted for each choice since I am a rp nerd like that and prefer to get that kind of thing right. Both of them felt that Alistair didn't love the harpy and it wouldn't be cheating so much as a necessary evil. Cheating is in the lie not the act.

/rant

On a sidenote, I want to thank Bioware for giving me a game where I actually felt emotionally involved. I've had a very ****ty year and this game has been just awesome to me overall, annoyances aside like Shifter and Reaver. But yea, much love.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Yeah, I was a bastard too, though fortunately, no one really cared what I did, so I was free to choose my own destiny. But generally, I refuse to force or bully someone into doing something on the basis that everyone else thinks its a brilliant idea. Generally, the way I see it, if people can't figure out a better way or do something and think for themselves, screw em. They deserve whatever fate the lacked the will and motivation to prevent. Yeah, I'm selfish that way, but generally, I find the idea of forcing someone to change, or become something they are not or don't want to be, revolting. If sacrifices must be made for the greater good, they must be made because someone is very much willing to do so on their own initiative, not because they were coerced, threatened, or pressured to do so.



Besides, it was not cheating, as you practically pressured him to do it, it's hardly cheating. And of course, my character already did the wild thing with Zevran (before she had actually fallen in love with Alistair and formed the relationship with him). After Zev calls her a deadly sex goddess, shares his assassin secrets and leather fetish, then wonders if there's any spare rope around, his fate was sealed.



So, fair is fair. Like I said, it was more painful to ask him to do it. At least my character actually wanted to ravish Zev, if only briefly, because she liked him and found him amusing. Alistair's predicament is not so pleasant, but its one of those few times I feel getting him to do something he doesn't want to is worth it. It is saving my life, after all, because had I not made the deal, Alistair would have been left at the gates, because no way is he taking the deathblow.



A VERY emotionally involving game, and the fact that it produces such visceral, strong reactions just shows Bioware created a masterpiece of gaming here.