298 réponses à ce sujet

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Ya, you really do "All but tie him up" for the ordeal and yet I see women screeching like it is an attack on them. Selfish creatures...



Anyway, that whole weak willed and whatnot you were talking about is basically why I hate making Alistair king. He actually likes being a Grey Warden. He can take a sword and fight evil, actually fight evil. No political masturbation, just "Hey ****nut! Have some sword!" I hate taking that from him.



But yea, we are getting into a circular hugging post fest and while I can dig it, I doubt the thread will. So back to lurking for me. XD

[Armiece]

I've never really understood the whole "No, you cannot have sex with my man! I'd rather die!" logic. So your options are:



A) Have him bang Morrigan ---> leads to both of you living a happy life together. Since both he and Morrigan have no attraction at all, it's not like he'll be continuing this on the side even if he could.



Refuse, leading to your (or his) death - > Rob Alistair of YET ANOTHER person he loves, presumably leaving him miserable for decades to come, or kill off Alistair leaving you miserable.



You know what? I'd rather he sleep with Morrigan so we can both be happy together. Seriously, you'd rather make him miserable for the rest of his life?

[Badpie]

Armiece wrote...

I've never really understood the whole "No, you cannot have sex with my man! I'd rather die!" logic. So your options are:

A) Have him bang Morrigan ---> leads to both of you living a happy life together. Since both he and Morrigan have no attraction at all, it's not like he'll be continuing this on the side even if he could.

Refuse, leading to your (or his) death - > Rob Alistair of YET ANOTHER person he loves, presumably leaving him miserable for decades to come, or kill off Alistair leaving you miserable.

You know what? I'd rather he sleep with Morrigan so we can both be happy together. Seriously, you'd rather make him miserable for the rest of his life?

I've never understood this either.  I've noticed a lot of the posts are along the lines of people just being like "NO!  I can't let him sleep with her BECAUSE I LOVE HIM!"

....really?  The reason you don't want him sleeping with her is because of your relationship and NOT because it might unleash some holy demon into the world at a later date?  PRIORITIES, LADIES! 



I personally, as far as the sex goes, was like "hey.  Whatever.  Sex = WE LIVE.  Go get 'er, champ."  The only thing I agonized over was the whole "is this going to bite me in the ass someday?" thing.

[Visenya]

Armiece wrote...

You know what? I'd rather he sleep with Morrigan so we can both be happy together. Seriously, you'd rather make him miserable for the rest of his life?

And you think he won't be miserable knowing he fathered another bastard child like himself? He wasn't very happy being one and yet you let him do the same mistake his father did. He desperately wants to have a complete family. I find it hard to believe he would let his own child live without father. Sooner or later he would search for him or her.
One way or another somebody is going to be unhappy whatever choice you make.

[DLAN_Immortality]

Querne, I also know how much it sucks, and I for what I've read, many many girls chose the same option to start with (hell, I did) but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Really, it's just psychology and coping with the trauma. In time, it won't seem to be that bad. :-)


First play, I choose "NOOO" when Morrigan makes her offer because, y'know, if all Hollywood movies end happily then I'll be damned if I'm not saved at the end, yes? Wishful thinking.


Okay, so I'm not saved at the end and Alistair dies.


Curse at the pixel gods, damn Bioware for all eternity and ALT F4.


Be traumatized.


Reload game and say "yes" to Morrigan. Cos I'm selfish. I want my man.


Be traumatized.


Days later trauma goes away. Okay, maybe Bioware was right with this endings...


Good times!


Replay game and be numb to similar offerings.

Modifié par DLAN_Immortality, 07 décembre 2009 - 10:43 .

[Jacks-Up]

Armiece wrote...

I've never really understood the whole "No, you cannot have sex with my man! I'd rather die!" logic. So your options are:

A) Have him bang Morrigan ---> leads to both of you living a happy life together. Since both he and Morrigan have no attraction at all, it's not like he'll be continuing this on the side even if he could.

Refuse, leading to your (or his) death - > Rob Alistair of YET ANOTHER person he loves, presumably leaving him miserable for decades to come, or kill off Alistair leaving you miserable.

You know what? I'd rather he sleep with Morrigan so we can both be happy together. Seriously, you'd rather make him miserable for the rest of his life?

C) Let Loghain live true Alistair pulls a suck face and runs away but he'll get over it by the time DA 2 comes about.

[Estelindis]

Badpie wrote...
I've noticed a lot of the posts are along the lines of people just being like "NO!  I can't let him sleep with her BECAUSE I LOVE HIM!"

....really?  The reason you don't want him sleeping with her is because of your relationship and NOT because it might unleash some holy demon into the world at a later date?  PRIORITIES, LADIES! 

Seriously, I agree with this completely.  I hated the idea mainly because it's so uncertain whether this whole god-child deal will lead to good or evil...  Considering some of the dubious deals Morrigan advocates over the course of the game, it's just so hard for me to believe it will lead to sweetness and light.  It's like the opposite of the principle of Grey Warden self-sacrifice.

At another level, though, I do agree with the OP to a certain extent.  I don't want Alistair to have to sleep with Morrigan.  But I see it not as an attack on my character by the developers, but rather as a betrayal of Alistair by my character.  I mean, the female Warden PC is the only woman he's ever slept with.  It's clear from the game that he genuinely loves her - that she's helped him to be happier about himself and in his life generally.  She is the only woman he wants to be with.  For her to then ask him to sleep with someone he hates just seems so wrong. 

Sheryl points out that Morrigan is a beautiful woman and there are no strings attached...  But Allistair feels a very strong personal aversion towards her - and, frankly, when it comes to sex, he seems to prefer that strings are attached!  (Er.  That sounded kinkier than I meant.  I mean, he doesn't like it to just be casual sex: he wants love and commitment.)  I don't mean any offence to Sheryl, but those justifications seem weak to me.  Vaughan from the City Elf origin wasn't bad-looking.  That doesn't mean my character wants to let him touch her in a million years.  And that would have been true even if he had been inclined to let her go afterwards (I think he would have found it easier to kill his victims than deal with them).  Anyway, the game quite rightly presents Vaughan as a villain (albeit in a somewhat over-the-top fashion; was that mwahaha really necessary?).  And, in spite of loving Morrigan's character in so many ways, I regard her as something of a villain for presenting this choice to the PC at the very last minute, as well.  I also think the choice should have had more options at this stage.  I would have liked to be able to discuss Morrigan's offer with Alistair without trying to convince him of it: to keep him in the picture about what Morrigan did, and invite him back to confront her with me.  I mean, this concerns him, after all.  I don't like keeping him in the dark just because my character doesn't want to try and convince him to do this.

Again, though, I think BadPie is right.  If it was just a question of nookie or die, I think it would be different.  But the implications of Morrigan's plan with the god child are far bigger than that, and I think that has to the main factor one takes into account when deciding yay or nay.

[ChemicalGreen]

Jacks-Up wrote...

C) Let Loghain live true Alistair pulls a suck face and runs away but he'll get over it by the time DA 2 comes about.

You don't even have to wait for that long. With some careful playing, he's quite chatty to me after I had Loghain slap Archdemon silly.

I was playing Dalish female elf and I had RPed her as such, so Alistair (being a shemlen and all that) was perma-friend zoned, never any flirty dialogue options and such. 100 friendly appreciation. I had hardened Alistair, and talked him into marrying Anora. When Landsmeet came about, I allowed Loghain to live, and reminded Alistair that he was supposed to marry Anora, to which he said "Fine, I'm leaving Grey Wardens and be king then!". He leaves, but you can still talk to him after Landsmeet in Aemon's library. Not a happy camper. Once you defeat Archdemon ( I didn't have Loghain do the ritual with Morrigan, so I don't know if that affects the outcome), he's at the coronation room and forgives you everything. Wearing what suspiciously looks like Cailan's armor.

The epilogue text boxes then go on about how well Anora and Alistair get along, how he's learning statecraft from her, and eventually them taking trips to the countryside together, where adoring public is soooooo happy to such a wonderful couple together. Almost caused me an acute case of diabetes, to be honest.

Now I'll have to see if I can pull the same while romancing him. 

[Thiefy]

i didn't read the whole thread, but just wanted to add in 2 cents...



how is it that difficult to understand why females are upset? think of the reverse:



What if you *had* to send morrigan to some other man she hated knowing it was the only way to save her and yourself (or sending her to take vows at the chantry/whatever the equivalent is to Alistair having sex.Yes, as a man he will enjoy sex, but it's something he takes seriously and he can't stand her anyway so it needs to be something equally difficult for her)?



Now how many of you that said you would send her enjoyed it?



Exactly. Obviously there are plenty of women that will do it begrudginly, for whatever reason. And they will dislike it for whatever, but really, what is the point in trying to change their opinion on it? All they are doing is venting frustration.



The guys never have to share Morrigan, but don't necessarily have a 'concrete' ending with her. They can just *hope* they find her later on.

The girls get to have a solid, happy ending, but at the cost of 'sharing' him with another woman. A lot of women, Morrigan included, do not want to share. We are forced into a situation where it is a must but that doesn't mean we should be happy or can readily accept that.



I'm a little surprised that there hasn't been discussion about why Alistair gets called off to the Grey Warden Fortress (can't spell it). It ends with 'he promises to return to his love' and considering this is a dark fantasy, that is a little forboding. It only gets mentioned in the Queen ending so it has me thinking that there is something significant going on, like they found out about the ritual and decided to detain him or something, I dunno.

[Thyrza]

So my elven mage got dumped by Alistair.  I understand the arguments in support of this development but what exasperates me most is that he left it to the last minute to tell her.  A *good* man would have warned the PC at the start of the romance: there were so many chances during those campfire chats about his birthright, the Wardens' limited lifespan - what better time to bring up the inability to have children?  

A *decent* man would have told the PC in Arl Eamon's Denerim estate, after the PC had that chat with Anora.  My PC asked him what he wanted;  a natural response from Alistair would have been yes or no but either way "if he were king, we'd have to break up".  But nooooo, not a word from him so the PC had to go to the Landsmeet and choose who to crown without any warning about how it would affect her.

As for the dumping itself   Even though I'd read the spoilers and knew it was coming, it was still a bit of a shock.  The infuriating part was how every conversation option ended with the PC meekly accepting it.  One natural response - and the one I was searching for - would have been for the PC to retort "Zevran's performance in my tent made you look like the n00b you are" and/or [Attack].  After all, she had slaughtered her way across Fereldan, why would she now accept being cast off like a soiled glove?  

[Tinxa]

I had him sleep with morrigan and chose the "I will rule with Alistair" option. And at the end it says that he's a loved king and he travels a lot and that we got married but when the text describes what happened to my PC it says he stayed with his love in Denerim which Anora didn't like (there was no Anora in the picture anymore) and got recalled to Weishaupt but will return??? It's clearly a bug Does anyone know what was it supposed to say?



I just finished for the first time and had been avoiding the forums like the plague but now I learn all this new information. Apparently a single dialogue choice is supposed to "harden" Alistair? what does that mean?

I also tried to have him marry Anora and she accepted the PC would be his mistress but then he dumps my PC after landsmeet anyway Is there a way to convince him to keep the PC as a mistress?

[amor platonicus]

I am SO glad I found this thread and spoiled myself. Now I won't feel hurt and betrayed by the time I get that far in the game. Really it's for the best.



I read there was "romance" in the game. When I met Daveth and Alistair at the very beginning, I decided I wanted Daveth because Alistair seemed a little too goody-two-shoes. I guess I'm too old and too jaded to put up with "puppy dogging" that much anymore. Then, that bastard Duncan killed Daveth before the prologue was even over! WTF?!

[SleepyBird]

I can't understand why so many people think the anger over the deal with Morrigan is purely about having Alistair sleep with another woman.  Of course if the deal was a simple as "sex will save your life, no strings attached" I would ask him to take the deal.  But it's absolutely not that simple.  The deal involves far more than the act itself, and there is no way my honor bound character could ask Alistair to do it.  It would be like asking the man my character is supposedly in love with to betray all his principals.  To ask a man -haunted by his unloved childhood as the bastard son of a king- to father and abandon his own child?  Ask a man raised by the chantry -and devoted to an order pledged to die to destroy the darkspawn- to allow an archdemon to be reborn?  Not to mention some deeply troubling, if you took the deal, Arthurian implications that I have since heard were brought up in the books?    Personally this was not a case where I felt I could use my force/persuade to make him go through with it.  It would have been horrifyingly out of character, for me to ask it or him to agree to it.

What I'm railing against was the fact that the writers didn't even really try to mask the fact that they considered one particular ending - an ending that was never an option for my character - was the one they considered true.  It felt really obvious as I went through the final stages of the game that Morrigan was the A story, and as a female gamer I was not the A story.

I don't even need a happy ending to the story, I can handle a tragedy, I like shades of grey in story telling.  It was pretty damn clear to me from the start that a sunshine and rainbows happy ending was not going to be an option.  I just wanted equal attention paid to the sad ending I ended up with. 

[amor platonicus]

Are you talking to me? I wasn't talking about Morrigan, though thank you for your insight. I was referring to "the harpy Anora". I'm sorry, I should have been more clear.

[SleepyBird]

amor platonicus wrote...

Are you talking to me? I wasn't talking about Morrigan, though thank you for your insight. I was referring to "the harpy Anora". I'm sorry, I should have been more clear.

There were lots of people arguing earlier in this thread about Morrigan's offer being nothing more than "sex with a pretty woman" and "no big deal".  I was responding to them, Hahaha, sorry if it seemed like I was ranting at you. 

Modifié par SleepyBird, 10 décembre 2009 - 02:41 .

[Thiefy]

SleepyBird wrote...

I can't understand why so many people think the anger over the deal with Morrigan is purely about having Alistair sleep with another woman.  Of course if the deal was a simple as "sex will save your life, no strings attached" I would ask him to take the deal.  But it's absolutely not that simple.  The deal involves far more than the act itself, and there is no way my honor bound character could ask Alistair to do it.  It would be like asking the man my character is supposedly in love with to betray all his principals.  To ask a man -haunted by his unloved childhood as the bastard son of a king- to father and abandon his own child?  Ask a man raised by the chantry -and devoted to an order pledged to die to destroy the darkspawn- to allow an archdemon to be reborn?  Not to mention some deeply troubling, if you took the deal, Arthurian implications that I have since heard were brought up in the books?    Personally this was not a case where I felt I could use my force/persuade to make him go through with it.  It would have been horrifyingly out of character, for me to ask it or him to agree to it.

I second this.

I guess it's hard for some people to see that a relationship is more than just sex.

Or that for some people, sex is more than just a pleasurable, biological act.

Maybe for Morrigan there was no strings attached but that certainly isn't the case for Alistair. There are plenty of reasons for the sake of Alistair to not have th demon baby.

[CueEllTee]

It's a dark fantasy. Personally, if there was some "sunshine-and-rainbows-out-the-ass" permutation of the ending, I'd be more than a little disappointed. As it is, I played a video game that handled a truly gut-wrenching decision in a mature, honest manner that made my jaw literally drop once it was offered, and ended a truly great virtual adventure with the bittersweet melancholy I previously thought was reserved for finishing good books.



And that's awesome.

[SleepyBird]

CueEllTee wrote...

It's a dark fantasy. Personally, if there was some "sunshine-and-rainbows-out-the-ass" permutation of the ending, I'd be more than a little disappointed. As it is, I played a video game that handled a truly gut-wrenching decision in a mature, honest manner that made my jaw literally drop once it was offered, and ended a truly great virtual adventure with the bittersweet melancholy I previously thought was reserved for finishing good books.

And that's awesome.

All true - if you played as a guy.  I didn't.  I got the half-assed "yay your boyfrind's dead let's celebrate!" ending, not the mature gut-wrenching bittersweet melancholy you got to experience.  That is why I rant.

[CueEllTee]

I played as a female PC first time through, shouted "NO YOU ****ER I WANTED TO KILL MYSELF ARGHRGHR" at the television and everything, and still thought it was really cool and got the melancholy.

EDIT: I do agree the epilogue could have been improved dramatically if Alistair got a nice funeral like the PC gets, however.

Modifié par CueEllTee, 10 décembre 2009 - 03:16 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Seeing how my warden was pretty much conscripted, and did not volunteer, I hardly see it as dereliction of duty, since she didn't have much choice in the matter. Since she's already been poisoned and doomed to a rather shortened life, I don't see any problem with her choosing another way out.



Furthermore, I see no evidence that this creature created will somehow be bad. Nor good. The only thing you have to go by is Chantry lore, which is highly suspect in my opinion, and heavily biased. Were the old gods good or bad? Don't know, don't care. They can go either way, though I suspect it's more like they were on the neutral scale, alignmentwise. And in truth, the true nature of the darkspawn, the taint, and relationships that exist between everything are still highly speculative.



I also do not think that Alistair would want to go looking for the kid. He says as much when you bring up the subject. Why? Because it's not a kid, in the sense you might think. Its a god, or at least, a powerful being that will not be human in any sense of the word, it will be something else. It might even be born totally self aware. But it will not be a "child" in the normal sense, and certainly will never be normal. As far as darkspawn corruption in the future, it's unikely, since it is implied, that the Grey Warden taint protects the Warden from the taint and blight of the darkspawn, so it's possible demon child is likewise protected.



I think the rise of an old god to serve as a counter balance to the Chantry would give far more religous diversity, and thus, lead to interesting new adventures and ideas.

[Thiefy]

CueEllTee wrote...

It's a dark fantasy. Personally, if there was some "sunshine-and-rainbows-out-the-ass" permutation of the ending, I'd be more than a little disappointed. As it is, I played a video game that handled a truly gut-wrenching decision in a mature, honest manner that made my jaw literally drop once it was offered, and ended a truly great virtual adventure with the bittersweet melancholy I previously thought was reserved for finishing good books.

And that's awesome.

Which is why I sacrifced myself first play through and why I consider that my 'true' game, but in all seriousness, assuming that character data xfers over to an expansion pack or sequal, that leaves me SOL unless I want to make a new character. While I'll have plenty of others, there's always a soft spot for my first one.

So, that means I have to make one of two moral compromises here - sacrifice the man my pc loves, or do the ritual. One of them is obviously not going to happen.

What would have honestly been the most gut wrenching thing from a female perspective, or at least *my* female perspective, was that after all that, Alistair sacrifices himself, dies, and sometime following his death female PC finds out she's preggo with his child.

I mean where could you go from there? She can't stop being a Grey Warden and really has no place for herself. How would she be able to raise it? The Circle would confiscate the mage's child; dwarven children would just give me a headache trying to think of possibilities; nobles could essentially leave their child with her brother but that's kind of a crap thing to do considering he just lost his family. The most stable upbringing would probably be the elves, but they'd be raising a human child. There's a good chance she'll be heading off to the deep roads when the child is barely mature enough to be called an adult. That's assuming Arl Eamon doesn't find out about it. I'm sure he would badger the hell out of you to have it become king/queen should he find out and then it's the landsmeet all over again, only a lot more questionable than before. Would my pc still do what's in the best interest of ferelden or what's in the best interest of her child? Now THAT would have been some messed up ****.

[BluePenthor]

SleepyBird wrote...

I can't understand why so many people think the anger over the deal with Morrigan is purely about having Alistair sleep with another woman.  Of course if the deal was a simple as "sex will save your life, no strings attached" I would ask him to take the deal.  But it's absolutely not that simple.  The deal involves far more than the act itself, and there is no way my honor bound character could ask Alistair to do it.  It would be like asking the man my character is supposedly in love with to betray all his principals.

/cheer Nicely put.

I know this just got quoted about, but it needs to be bolded a few times. Not every woman shutting down Morrigan is doing it because they're an ugly, jealous harpy who can't stand the thought of their man with another woman.

SleepyBird's points re: principals and family are important, but its the old god business that seals it for me. Maybe there's a possibility that the old god might turn out to be benign, but really, what's the point of going to all that trouble (and Flemmeth certainly did go to quite a bit of trouble) for and old god that likes to stay home on Friday nights and does needlepoint on his off hours? Nevermind the whole tainting business.... Morrigan's gonna stave off an army of darkspawn gunning for the little one with her sharp tongue and the funny-looking hat she took from me when she left?

How could anyone who cares for Alistair ask him to introduce this question mark into the world after fighting so hard to end the blight? I sure wouldn't want to be the one explaining to the other Grey Wardens why we gimped out on our duties in such a massive, massive way ("Well, you see, PC had already picked out her dress...").

I've played through a few times and, honestly, Alistair seems happiest when I'm a gay dwarf. Me and Zev run off and have fabulous, er, massages while rebuilding the Grey Wardens in Ferelden, Alistair becomes a good king and seems reasonably happy with Anora, Logain redeems himself, and the old tainted god heading a bloodthirsty army has been dealt with permanently. Bleh.

[SleepyBird]

BluePenthor wrote...

/cheer Nicely put.

Thank you kindly 

[vocalemuse]

SleepyBird wrote...

I can't understand why so many people think the anger over the deal with Morrigan is purely about having Alistair sleep with another woman.

Because if you'll notice, most of the posts in this topic are, "OMG I don't want my Alistair to sleep with Morrigan and cheat on me! Wah!" And not actually about the deeper meaning behind the reasons, which is what amuses me the most.

Well, that and the "my Alistair" thing... makes me feel like I'm in a room with those psycho Twilight fangirls fighting over Dark Cedric (aka Edward Cullen). >>; Just a little disturbing to me, haha.

Modifié par vocalemuse, 10 décembre 2009 - 04:47 .

[SleepyBird]

Hahaha, if you think of all the people who played the game romancing Alistair he really gets around...  He's worse than Zevron the cheating cad!  "Never licked a lampost" my ass! 

(But I can kind of understand the posessivness, it's a very well written and performed character)

Modifié par SleepyBird, 10 décembre 2009 - 04:48 .