325 réponses à ce sujet

[Balek-Vriege]

teh_619 wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

teh_619 wrote...

"You still have the problem of "organic" nature. People with free will do stupid things sometimes and make stupid mistakes. All it takes is that one mad scientist, on a far off world to get things started. The Reaper plan is the most efficient from a logical point of view. Their moral judgement (well their creator; judgement) is that killing off advanced organics every 50K years is the safest way possible to prevent organics from ceasing to exist. "

If we know anything about organic nature today is that it evolves preserving only the right attributes which are needed and help evolution.

A short neck doesn't help to eat leaves from a tree. This attribute is slowly eliminated through the generations.
A mad scientist doesn't help advance society if his only purpose is to destroy it. The chance of a mad scientist doing the same thing again thins out. This attribute will not stand the centuries.

However the reapers STOP that same evolution. They erase any kind of progress and actually prevents everyone from CORRECTING those very mistakes.

If some giraffes have short necks you don't eliminiate every girrafe in existence.

A short neck does make it harder to get leaves from a tree however.  With high intelligence that leads to using a tool to get those leaves. So much so the epic tool of leaf eating is created and begins to eats all the leaves in the world, killings every bit of vegetation and thereby making creator extinct.


It doesn't have to be a mad scientist either.  It just has to be someone who wants to make things easier on themselves and others.  That's the whole reason behind progress and that's why we're probably doomed, both in ME universe and our own, to a technological singularity.

"With high intelligence that leads to"...

That's not how evolution works.

If giraffes somehow managed to kill a part of vegeation due to overpopulation, that would mean they would thrive in numbers. That's where TIGERS would come and balance things out.

You might say "that's exactly what reapers do!"

Nope. The reapers, no matter what, DESTROY life. It doesn't matter if the giraffe actually DOES eat all the vegetation, in this case. They get destroyed anyway. That's not balance.

Your diverting from the issue and that's why I left out giraffes in my response.  Giraffe's are not a highly sentient being on the same level of Humans.  They do not use tools to better themselves.  We are talking about species that actually have abundant critical thinking and problem solving.  A giraffe probably doesn't even notice itself in a mirror.  It has nothing to do with evolution since evolution is just too slow and when a true technological singularity happens, a race will most likely not have a chance to "evolve" based off their mistakes.  Unless of course they made a technological singularity every day and stopped it for hundreds of thousands of years.  Then we may actually get somewhere with that.


They're worried about AI gaining a foothold and crushing any organic life, forever.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 04 mars 2012 - 07:39 .

[teh_619]

Aesieru wrote...

teh_619 wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

teh_619 wrote...

"You still have the problem of "organic" nature. People with free will do stupid things sometimes and make stupid mistakes. All it takes is that one mad scientist, on a far off world to get things started. The Reaper plan is the most efficient from a logical point of view. Their moral judgement (well their creator; judgement) is that killing off advanced organics every 50K years is the safest way possible to prevent organics from ceasing to exist. "

If we know anything about organic nature today is that it evolves preserving only the right attributes which are needed and help evolution.

A short neck doesn't help to eat leaves from a tree. This attribute is slowly eliminated through the generations.
A mad scientist doesn't help advance society if his only purpose is to destroy it. The chance of a mad scientist doing the same thing again thins out. This attribute will not stand the centuries.

However the reapers STOP that same evolution. They erase any kind of progress and actually prevents everyone from CORRECTING those very mistakes.

If some giraffes have short necks you don't eliminiate every girrafe in existence.

A short neck does make it harder to get leaves from a tree however.  With high intelligence that leads to using a tool to get those leaves. So much so the epic tool of leaf eating is created and begins to eats all the leaves in the world, killings every bit of vegetation and thereby making creator extinct.


It doesn't have to be a mad scientist either.  It just has to be someone who wants to make things easier on themselves and others.  That's the whole reason behind progress and that's why we're probably doomed, both in ME universe and our own, to a technological singularity.

"With high intelligence that leads to"...

That's not how evolution works.

If giraffes somehow managed to kill a part of vegeation due to overpopulation, that would mean they would thrive in numbers. That's where TIGERS would come and balance things out.

You might say "that's exactly what reapers do!"

Nope. The reapers, no matter what, DESTROY life. It doesn't matter if the giraffe actually DOES eat all the vegetation, in this case. They get destroyed anyway. That's not balance.

The Reaper Vanguard is meant to only call them in when a threat occurs.

So what's that threat this time?

The vanguard didn't call them anyway. Sovereign got destroyed. The reapers still came.

Humans are merely trying to resist the AI that's trying to destroy them. That's a good sign as far as reapers know, akin to their beliefs and purpose.

[LOLandStuff]

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Not really since it's not logical for a race as advanced as those who created the Reapers.  It has also been done a thousand times.  If you have no problem killing organics for the greater good, have all the time in the world, can be independent of the galaxy and could set up a trap and plan that would could be flawlessly executed over and over, why would you risk the lesser plan in an attempt to not kill anyone?  To them the stakes were obviously too high or their own personal distaster with AI too great.

But the point is that the premise of ME3 seems to indicate that both risks are equal.

Option 1: Destroy synthetics and let Organics live

The risk people keep brining up is that then they will create synthetics that might be much more advanced

But this is unlikely due to

1) The reapers can keep individuals in all the races to monitor the progress
2) It would mean that the reapers cannot gauge organic development accurately

But if (2) is true, then the 50k cycl it-self is a problem because when they come to eliminate the Organics, they might be superior to the reapers.

So it seems that if we admit that there is a high risk the synthetics will be superior to reapers when they come back, then organics could also be superior to reapers when they come back in 50k years. OR, simply put, the organics might have already created the synethetic life that is superior to reapers.

Now any explanation that you can come up with to answer the above will also show that leaving organics while destryoing synthetics also has no risk. Therefore, it still seems illogical for the reapers to pursue their path in the games.

That's why they leave a Reaper behind in the first place.
They don't just dump him there as a punishment because they don't like him and expect to have a 50k years of quiet sleep.

[ninjaNumber1]

teh_619 wrote...

I just noticed another fallacy.
Reapers aren't synthetic too.

They destroy civilizations. So basically they do exactly what they're trying to stop.
They're AI's that're trying AI's to destroy civilizations by destroying civilizations.

That can just destroy themselves. That would be actually a solution which would be on terms with what they're trying to do.

Yea man, I think the whole plot is reduced to rediculousness in ME3.

Most people here are trying to reconcile the logical inconsistency by explaining them away using implausible scenarios. That resolves the logical inconsistency but makes the plot implausible.

The truth of the matter is, Bioware screwed up with the plot because they didn't think things through. Its unfortunate.

[Turel11234]

teh_619 wrote...

I just noticed another fallacy.
Reapers aren't synthetic too.

They destroy civilizations. So basically they do exactly what they're trying to stop.
They're AI's that're trying AI's to destroy civilizations by destroying civilizations.

That can just destroy themselves. That would be actually a solution which would be on terms with what they're trying to do.

GODAMN NO!
USE YOUR BRAIN AND LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE!
Reapers don't give a flying **** about civilizations, they care about organic life as a whole!
What they do is to preserve organic life as a whole by harvesting that 1%(space faring species) that poses a significant danger to that whole on a galactic and PERMANENT scale.

[ninjaNumber1]

LOLandStuff wrote...

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Not really since it's not logical for a race as advanced as those who created the Reapers.  It has also been done a thousand times.  If you have no problem killing organics for the greater good, have all the time in the world, can be independent of the galaxy and could set up a trap and plan that would could be flawlessly executed over and over, why would you risk the lesser plan in an attempt to not kill anyone?  To them the stakes were obviously too high or their own personal distaster with AI too great.

But the point is that the premise of ME3 seems to indicate that both risks are equal.

Option 1: Destroy synthetics and let Organics live

The risk people keep brining up is that then they will create synthetics that might be much more advanced

But this is unlikely due to

1) The reapers can keep individuals in all the races to monitor the progress
2) It would mean that the reapers cannot gauge organic development accurately

But if (2) is true, then the 50k cycl it-self is a problem because when they come to eliminate the Organics, they might be superior to the reapers.

So it seems that if we admit that there is a high risk the synthetics will be superior to reapers when they come back, then organics could also be superior to reapers when they come back in 50k years. OR, simply put, the organics might have already created the synethetic life that is superior to reapers.

Now any explanation that you can come up with to answer the above will also show that leaving organics while destryoing synthetics also has no risk. Therefore, it still seems illogical for the reapers to pursue their path in the games.

That's why they leave a Reaper behind in the first place.
They don't just dump him there as a punishment because they don't like him and expect to have a 50k years of quiet sleep.

Good stuff! See, you answererd your own question and showed why both options are equal risk then.

[Aesieru]

1. Reapers are not AI's.

2. Sovereign being destroyed obviously sent some type of back-up signal to the Harbinger who made his own plans as he prepared to head to the Alpha Relay.

3. The Vanguard wakes up every once in a while to assess when the galaxy needs to be reaped, if it's before, he activates the citadel by remote, if it's not, he doesn't.

[humes spork]

Aesieru wrote...

Yes the replicators are more expanding because it's their drive and to reproduce.

The Geth WANT to be more intelligent and they desire to be able to be independently thinking yet communal, like the Reapers. They will advance constantly in an attempt to do that.

Then what precludes the geth from simply expanding as aggressively as possible to achieve their end? Why have the geth not yet completely drained systems within the veil of resources to construct their Dyson sphere? These actions are flatly not consistent with an imperative to expand, which is what your argument in favor of technological singularity needs in order to be cogent. That is to say, expansion is in their nature and they are devoid of choice in the matter. The Replicators are an example of a synthetic race with an imperative to expand, which is why I mentioned them in the first place.

Now you're claiming the geth, a synthetic race, has a choice in the matter which precludes it from being an imperative. If synthetic races have choice, then technological singularity is not an inevitability -- at least from the perspective of synthetics. If you want to claim technological singularity is the fault of organics -- which is the running theme of Mass Effect altogether -- then please feel free.

[Aesieru]

humes spork wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Yes the replicators are more expanding because it's their drive and to reproduce.

The Geth WANT to be more intelligent and they desire to be able to be independently thinking yet communal, like the Reapers. They will advance constantly in an attempt to do that.

Then what precludes the geth from simply expanding as aggressively as possible to achieve their end? Why have the geth not yet completely drained systems within the veil of resources to construct their Dyson sphere? These actions are flatly not consistent with an imperative to expand, which is what your argument in favor of technological singularity needs in order to be cogent. That is to say, expansion is in their nature and they are devoid of choice in the matter. The Replicators are an example of a synthetic race with an imperative to expand, which is why I mentioned them in the first place.

Now you're claiming the geth, a synthetic race, has a choice in the matter which precludes it from being an imperative. If synthetic races have choice, then technological singularity is not an inevitability -- at least from the perspective of synthetics. If you want to claim technological singularity is the fault of organics -- which is the running theme of Mass Effect altogether -- then please feel free.

The Geth have only been alive for a short time, it's expected to take thousands or tens of thousands of years to deplete the galaxy at an expanding pace, it will happen, and a few hundred thousand years might be required but in the actual realm of how long the Reapers have been doing their things, that's not a long time compared to millions.

It's an Imperative of all synthetic's and thus the Geth, because it is their nature to want to grow more intelligent, hence the artificial intelligences creation or rebellion or purpose of independence.

Modifié par Aesieru, 04 mars 2012 - 07:43 .

[ninjaNumber1]

Turel11234 wrote...

teh_619 wrote...

I just noticed another fallacy.
Reapers aren't synthetic too.

They destroy civilizations. So basically they do exactly what they're trying to stop.
They're AI's that're trying AI's to destroy civilizations by destroying civilizations.

That can just destroy themselves. That would be actually a solution which would be on terms with what they're trying to do.

GODAMN NO!
USE YOUR BRAIN AND LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE!
Reapers don't give a flying **** about civilizations, they care about organic life as a whole!
What they do is to preserve organic life as a whole by harvesting that 1%(space faring species) that poses a significant danger to that whole on a galactic and PERMANENT scale.

But dude, they fare in space travel only because the reapers gave them the tech in the first place. How retarded is that?

And what on earth does 'preserving organic' life mean? If you mean just preserving the organic matter, the reapers have already done that the first time they harvested. There is nothing left to harvest. As far as they are concerned, they should just wipe the galaxy clean of ANY ORGANICS because they have already 'preserved Organic life' by your definition.

[Aesieru]

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Turel11234 wrote...

teh_619 wrote...

I just noticed another fallacy.
Reapers aren't synthetic too.

They destroy civilizations. So basically they do exactly what they're trying to stop.
They're AI's that're trying AI's to destroy civilizations by destroying civilizations.

That can just destroy themselves. That would be actually a solution which would be on terms with what they're trying to do.

GODAMN NO!
USE YOUR BRAIN AND LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE!
Reapers don't give a flying **** about civilizations, they care about organic life as a whole!
What they do is to preserve organic life as a whole by harvesting that 1%(space faring species) that poses a significant danger to that whole on a galactic and PERMANENT scale.

But dude, they fare in space travel only because the reapers gave them the tech in the first place. How retarded is that?

And what on earth does 'preserving organic' life mean? If you mean just preserving the organic matter, the reapers have already done that the first time they harvested. There is nothing left to harvest. As far as they are concerned, they should just wipe the galaxy clean of ANY ORGANICS because they have already 'preserved Organic life' by your definition.

Not true, they gave them a TYPE of beyond FTL travel. There are obviously other ways of doing it, but having a way to do it provided for you makes you restrict yourself to it and the Relays can be monitored and manipulated.

THE RELAYS ARE A PRISON NOT A GIFT.

---

ORganic life differs constantly, that's why they continually preserve each species they reap.

[Balek-Vriege]

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

teh_619 wrote...

I just noticed another fallacy.
Reapers aren't synthetic too.

They destroy civilizations. So basically they do exactly what they're trying to stop.
They're AI's that're trying AI's to destroy civilizations by destroying civilizations.

That can just destroy themselves. That would be actually a solution which would be on terms with what they're trying to do.

Yea man, I think the whole plot is reduced to rediculousness in ME3.

Most people here are trying to reconcile the logical inconsistency by explaining them away using implausible scenarios. That resolves the logical inconsistency but makes the plot implausible.

The truth of the matter is, Bioware screwed up with the plot because they didn't think things through. Its unfortunate.

Again not true.  Reapers are organic and synthetic, built from the DNA and minds of millions, if not billions of individuals.  They are super intelligences limited by the Guardian, which is limited by it's core programming and the constraints of the cycles.  There is no logical inconistency when you acknowledge those facts.  Reapers are not runaway intelligences.  They do not consume at extremely quick rates (they actually sit around until they're called upon to Reap).  In essence the Reapers are tools that do something horrible for the "greater good," controlling Galactic progress in order to keep organic life and the natural order of things from being completely wiped out. 

[teh_619]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

teh_619 wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

teh_619 wrote...

"You still have the problem of "organic" nature. People with free will do stupid things sometimes and make stupid mistakes. All it takes is that one mad scientist, on a far off world to get things started. The Reaper plan is the most efficient from a logical point of view. Their moral judgement (well their creator; judgement) is that killing off advanced organics every 50K years is the safest way possible to prevent organics from ceasing to exist. "

If we know anything about organic nature today is that it evolves preserving only the right attributes which are needed and help evolution.

A short neck doesn't help to eat leaves from a tree. This attribute is slowly eliminated through the generations.
A mad scientist doesn't help advance society if his only purpose is to destroy it. The chance of a mad scientist doing the same thing again thins out. This attribute will not stand the centuries.

However the reapers STOP that same evolution. They erase any kind of progress and actually prevents everyone from CORRECTING those very mistakes.

If some giraffes have short necks you don't eliminiate every girrafe in existence.

A short neck does make it harder to get leaves from a tree however.  With high intelligence that leads to using a tool to get those leaves. So much so the epic tool of leaf eating is created and begins to eats all the leaves in the world, killings every bit of vegetation and thereby making creator extinct.


It doesn't have to be a mad scientist either.  It just has to be someone who wants to make things easier on themselves and others.  That's the whole reason behind progress and that's why we're probably doomed, both in ME universe and our own, to a technological singularity.

"With high intelligence that leads to"...

That's not how evolution works.

If giraffes somehow managed to kill a part of vegeation due to overpopulation, that would mean they would thrive in numbers. That's where TIGERS would come and balance things out.

You might say "that's exactly what reapers do!"

Nope. The reapers, no matter what, DESTROY life. It doesn't matter if the giraffe actually DOES eat all the vegetation, in this case. They get destroyed anyway. That's not balance.

Your diverting from the issue and that's why I left out giraffes in my response.  Giraffe's are not a highly sentient being on the same level of Humans.  They do not use tools to better themselves.  We are talking about species that actually have abundant critical thinking and problem solving.  A giraffe probably doesn't even notice itself in a mirror.  It has nothing to do with evolution since evolution is just too slow and when a true technological singularity happens, a race will most likely not have a chance to "evolve" based off their mistakes.  Unless of course they made a technological singularity every day and stopped it for hundreds of thousands of years.  Then we may actually get somewhere with that.


They're worried about AI gaining a foothold and crushing any organic life, forever.

No, you don't get my point.

I'm merely trying to say that when a "bad" thing happens a "good" thing balances it out and everything evolves.
And in the contrary, when something "good" happens something "bad" balances it out.
That's how organic life works. Negative and positive.
In time robots would fade, as they cannot evolve. Once out of resources they cannot adapt.
It could take trillions of years but organic life would finally sprout again.


Also judging from the sheer size of the universe which, 10 or so civilizations of billionsor trillions wouldn't be able to suck out ALL of it's resources for god's sake.

[Bentebent]

Aesieru wrote...


The Geth have only been alive for a short time, it's expected to take thousands or tens of thousands of years to deplete the galaxy at an expanding pace, it will happen, and a few hundred thousand years might be required but in the actual realm of how long the Reapers have been doing their things, that's not a long time compared to millions.

It's an Imperative of all synthetic's and thus the Geth, because it is their nature to want to grow more intelligent, hence the artificial intelligences creation or rebellion or purpose of independence.

Idle speculation, there is nothing in the lore that supports this.

[LOLandStuff]

[quote]ninjaNumber1 wrote...

That's why they leave a Reaper behind in the first place.
They don't just dump him there as a punishment because they don't like him and expect to have a 50k years of quiet sleep.

[/quote]

Good stuff! See, you answererd your own question and showed why both options are equal risk then.

[/quote]

Then can you imagine how many times the Reapers have to come to the Galaxy because there's some ****** who thinks he's smarter than anyone and unleashes his idiocy all over the Galaxy. Then the next guy comes up who think his way better than the previous one and so on.
The Reapers won't even need to leave. They'll have to sit around and monitor everyone closely because no one will ever listen and think they're better and can't possibly make a mistake.

[Turel11234]

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Turel11234 wrote...

teh_619 wrote...

I just noticed another fallacy.
Reapers aren't synthetic too.

They destroy civilizations. So basically they do exactly what they're trying to stop.
They're AI's that're trying AI's to destroy civilizations by destroying civilizations.

That can just destroy themselves. That would be actually a solution which would be on terms with what they're trying to do.

GODAMN NO!
USE YOUR BRAIN AND LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE!
Reapers don't give a flying **** about civilizations, they care about organic life as a whole!
What they do is to preserve organic life as a whole by harvesting that 1%(space faring species) that poses a significant danger to that whole on a galactic and PERMANENT scale.

But dude, they fare in space travel only because the reapers gave them the tech in the first place. How retarded is that?

And what on earth does 'preserving organic' life mean? If you mean just preserving the organic matter, the reapers have already done that the first time they harvested. There is nothing left to harvest. As far as they are concerned, they should just wipe the galaxy clean of ANY ORGANICS because they have already 'preserved Organic life' by your definition.

What i mean by preserving organic life as a whole is all other forms of life that exist and don't dabble in potentialy universe level extintion levels threats.
You know, grass, trees, pyjacks, tresher maws, apes, dogs...
ALL FORMS OF LIFE.
What they try to do is too guarantee the survival of life as a whole at a minimum cost.

"The needs of many outweight the needs of few"

[WizenSlinky0]

Balek-Vriege wrote...


Again not true.  Reapers are organic and synthetic, built from the DNA and minds of millions, if not billions of individuals.  They are super intelligences limited by the Guardian, which is limited by it's core programming and the constraints of the cycles.  There is no logical inconistency when you acknowledge those facts.  Reapers are not runaway intelligences.  They do not consume at extremely quick rates (they actually sit around until they're called upon to Reap).  In essence the Reapers are Slaves that do something horrible for the "greater good," controlling Galactic progress in order to keep organic life and the natural order of things from being completely wiped out. 

Fixed.

Reapers being tools negates the fact they are made up of potentially billions of minds each.

They are enslaved to serve the whims of the guardian. Tragic, really.

[Aesieru]

Bentebent wrote...

Aesieru wrote...


The Geth have only been alive for a short time, it's expected to take thousands or tens of thousands of years to deplete the galaxy at an expanding pace, it will happen, and a few hundred thousand years might be required but in the actual realm of how long the Reapers have been doing their things, that's not a long time compared to millions.

It's an Imperative of all synthetic's and thus the Geth, because it is their nature to want to grow more intelligent, hence the artificial intelligences creation or rebellion or purpose of independence.

Idle speculation, there is nothing in the lore that supports this.

... The history of AI through the codex and the games and books actually very much supports it, because it has happened before or nearly happened to be precise.

[LOLandStuff]

[quote]ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Good stuff! See, you answererd your own question and showed why both options are equal risk then.

[/quote]

Then can you imagine how many times the Reapers have to come to the Galaxy because there's some ****** who thinks he's smarter than anyone and unleashes his idiocy all over the Galaxy. Then the next guy comes up who think his way better than the previous one and so on.
The Reapers won't even need to leave. They'll have to sit around and monitor everyone closely because no one will ever listen and think they're better and can't possibly make a mistake.

[/quote]

[Aesieru]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...


Again not true.  Reapers are organic and synthetic, built from the DNA and minds of millions, if not billions of individuals.  They are super intelligences limited by the Guardian, which is limited by it's core programming and the constraints of the cycles.  There is no logical inconistency when you acknowledge those facts.  Reapers are not runaway intelligences.  They do not consume at extremely quick rates (they actually sit around until they're called upon to Reap).  In essence the Reapers are Slaves that do something horrible for the "greater good," controlling Galactic progress in order to keep organic life and the natural order of things from being completely wiped out. 

Fixed.

Reapers being tools negates the fact they are made up of potentially billions of minds each.

They are enslaved to serve the whims of the guardian. Tragic, really.

Actually they are not.

It more like Organics are enslaved to serve the Reapers by becoming one of them, which follow a guideline protocol that is imbedded in each Reaper and is simply maintained by the Guardian. According to the Guardian dialog, it only really has an abort button and a "DONT FORGET TO DO THIS" button.

[ninjaNumber1]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Again not true.  Reapers are organic and synthetic, built from the DNA and minds of millions, if not billions of individuals.  They are super intelligences limited by the Guardian, which is limited by it's core programming and the constraints of the cycles.  There is no logical inconistency when you acknowledge those facts.  Reapers are not runaway intelligences.  They do not consume at extremely quick rates (they actually sit around until they're called upon to Reap).  In essence the Reapers are tools that do something horrible for the "greater good," controlling Galactic progress in order to keep organic life and the natural order of things from being completely wiped out. 

Sigh, the logical inconsistency is there to see broski.

All you need to do is consider the two options

1) Wipe out all synthetic life every cycle or when awakened by Vanguard
2) Wipe out all organic life every cycle or when awakened by Vanguard

Now with respect to preserving organic life, its clear that (2) is preferrable. So what people on this forum try to say is that (2) is low risk. Why? They say that the AI might be too advanced when the reapers come in the case of option (1).

But that risk exists even with respect to organics. It is possible that the organics are far advanced than reapers when they come. Hence there is no reason to think (2) is low risk compared to (1). The observant Vanguard would act as a fail safe in either option to make the risk equal.

Now unless you can tell me a reason why (1) is higher risk than (2), either way you cut it, there is a logical inconsistency in following (2) over (1).

Do you see that?

Modifié par ninjaNumber1, 04 mars 2012 - 07:52 .

[Bentebent]

Aesieru wrote...

... The history of AI through the codex and the games and books actually very much supports it, because it has happened before or nearly happened to be precise.

The history of the Geth and the interaction with the Geth in the games does not support it.

You know, you can't quote the codex when you like and dismiss it at other times, at your own whim.

[ninjaNumber1]

[quote]LOLandStuff wrote...


[quote]ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Good stuff! See, you answererd your own question and showed why both options are equal risk then.

[/quote]

Then can you imagine how many times the Reapers have to come to the Galaxy because there's some ****** who thinks he's smarter than anyone and unleashes his idiocy all over the Galaxy. Then the next guy comes up who think his way better than the previous one and so on.
The Reapers won't even need to leave. They'll have to sit around and monitor everyone closely because no one will ever listen and think they're better and can't possibly make a mistake.

[/quote]
[/quote]

If some ****** decided to do AI research, all the reapers need to do is send out an indoctrinated person like Saren to take out the target. No need to send a fleet to do one mans job.

[WizenSlinky0]

Aesieru wrote...

Actually they are not.

It more like Organics are enslaved to serve the Reapers by becoming one of them, which follow a guideline protocol that is imbedded in each Reaper and is simply maintained by the Guardian. According to the Guardian dialog, it only really has an abort button and a "DONT FORGET TO DO THIS" button.

Organic minds are used to create the reaper. The protocol in each reaper is basically just the guardians control over them.  It's why in the ending when Shepard asks if he'd have control over the reapers, he says "Yes". As in absolute control. Unyielding obedience. They cannot in any form go against the Guardian. Which is enslavement. We don't actually know if the reapers want to do this or would do this on their own. They have no choice in the matter.

[Aesieru]

Bentebent wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

... The history of AI through the codex and the games and books actually very much supports it, because it has happened before or nearly happened to be precise.

The history of the Geth and the interaction with the Geth in the games does not support it.

You know, you can't quote the codex when you like and dismiss it at other times, at your own whim.

Prothean AI Rebellion is one we know of for certain, detailed in ME3 itself.

We saw what the Overlord Virus was doing, it was trying to escape and get into the galaxy to expand.

We saw the VI Virus was infecting everything in an attempt to protect itself from ever being turned off.

We saw the Heretic Geth killing all organics.

We see the Protestant Geth trying to build a sphere to expand their intelligence and Legion admitted they want to become more intelligent which means more platforms and communal minds.