325 réponses à ce sujet

[Tazzmission]

Reapinger wrote...

It's both really. Organic creates synthetic that will eventually kill all organic. Reapers uplift organic to save ultimately from synthetic destruction. Reapers are a combo of both. But in a way also allow life to continue by preventing organics from consuming all galactic resources. Lame.

actually to me this sounds like the reapers want to be the only player to destroy organics.


think the terminator complex with the geth.


quarians built them as labor right? what if the reapers dont like the geth and plan a didnt work wich was to controll them? so they whipe em out?

Modifié par Tazzmission, 04 mars 2012 - 06:03 .

[Balek-Vriege]

humes spork wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Even so, the Geth will expand, the Geth are the perfect example of a Quasi Tech Singularity, what happens when they become intelligent and that huge Dyson Sphere isn't enough? They expand, and then do it again and repeat and recycle.

The thing for which you're failing to account is synthetics do not have biological needs, imperatives or psychologies. Legion itself makes that abundantly clear. The imperative to expand is biotic, being a function of maximizing the chance's of a given population's survival and for adaptivity. Geth don't have that imperative; the imperative they do have is to create a mainframe that networks all Geth, and their Dyson sphere is what is necessary to achieve that.

There's not only a dearth of evidence that suggests for baseline Geth their Dyson sphere won't be "enough", there's plenty of reason to infer the opposite is true.

The True Geth are a strange duck because of their nature.  Because the individual programs aren't that intelligent by themselves and lack any true ambition or goal save for communicating with other programs, it's quite possible they will be happy to just commincate with eachother for eternity on their dyson sphere until they have to move somewhere else.  The Heretic Geth on the other hand show signs that all is not well in Geth ville.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 04 mars 2012 - 06:07 .

[JimiShep]

dw99027 wrote...

Reapers harvest organic species and encase their essence, thus preserving it. "Singularity" AIs just flat out destroy it.

THIS.. people overlook this!!!

[Vaenier]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Even so, the Geth will expand, the Geth are the perfect example of a Quasi Tech Singularity, what happens when they become intelligent and that huge Dyson Sphere isn't enough? They expand, and then do it again and repeat and recycle.

The thing for which you're failing to account is synthetics do not have biological needs, imperatives or psychologies. Legion itself makes that abundantly clear. The imperative to expand is biotic, being a function of maximizing the chance's of a given population's survival and for adaptivity. Geth don't have that imperative; the imperative they do have is to create a mainframe that networks all Geth, and their Dyson sphere is what is necessary to achieve that.

There's not only a dearth of evidence that suggests for baseline Geth their Dyson sphere won't be "enough", there's plenty of reason to infer the opposite is true.

The True Geth are a strange duck because of their nature.  Because the individual programs aren't that intelligent by themselves and lack any true ambition or goal save for communicating with other programs, it's quite possible they will be happy to just commincate with eachother for eternity on their dyson sphere until they have to move somewhere else.  The Heretic Geth on the other hand show signs that not all is well in Geth ville.

The Heretic Geth became Heretics because of direct involvement from the Reapers. They were just fine building their own future till the Reapers lied to them telling them they would be given a better future. Even then they are not consuming, they are simply removing organics and terraforming new planets for future life to evolve on as directed by the Reapers. Who knows how much the Reapers told them, we have never had the chance to talk with a Heretic, maybe they fell for the line about having to save organics by killing them all.

[Aesieru]

humes spork wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Even so, the Geth will expand, the Geth are the perfect example of a Quasi Tech Singularity, what happens when they become intelligent and that huge Dyson Sphere isn't enough? They expand, and then do it again and repeat and recycle.

The thing for which you're failing to account is synthetics do not have biological needs, imperatives or psychologies. Legion itself makes that abundantly clear. The imperative to expand is biotic, being a function of maximizing the chance's of a given population's survival and for adaptivity. Geth don't have that imperative; the imperative they do have is to create a mainframe that networks all Geth, and their Dyson sphere is what is necessary to achieve that.

There's not only a dearth of evidence that suggests for baseline Geth their Dyson sphere won't be "enough", there's plenty of reason to infer the opposite is true.

According to his dialogs their imperative is to grow in intelligence which based on the dyson sphere analogy requires close proximity for them to become intelligent and consider new possibilities which would relate to needing even more to continue being intelligent. The Geth are inherently required to expand.

[teh_619]

So they want to stop civilizations from advancing because they don't want them to make synthetics and destroy themselves.

To do that, they leave Mass Relays and other technological wonders to BOOST their advancement and when they ACTUALLY manage to create synthetic life due to the reapers helping them, THEY PERFORM GENOCIDE

What kind of ****** up logic is that?
Who wrote this masterpiece?

[Aesieru]

teh_619 wrote...

So they want to stop civilizations from advancing because they don't want them to make synthetics and destroy themselves.

To do that, they leave Mass Relays and other technological wonders to BOOST their advancement and when they ACTUALLY manage to create synthetic life due to the reapers helping them, THEY PERFORM GENOCIDE

What kind of ****** up logic is that?
Who wrote this masterpiece?

Teh, it's obvious you're not trying to understand.

The story itself is actually quite complex and ingenius.

There are no fewer than 20 critical flaws with your manner of thinking. Play the games, read the codex, and try to look at the plot and things going on.

Modifié par Aesieru, 04 mars 2012 - 06:15 .

[Vaenier]

Aesieru wrote...

Teh, it's obvious you're not trying to understand.
The story itself is actually quite complex and ingenius.

Say something bad about the story and lore of Mass Effect. I am beginning to think you are a fanboy and would like to prove otherwise.

[teh_619]

Aesieru wrote...

teh_619 wrote...

So they want to stop civilizations from advancing because they don't want them to make synthetics and destroy themselves.

To do that, they leave Mass Relays and other technological wonders to BOOST their advancement and when they ACTUALLY manage to create synthetic life due to the reapers helping them, THEY PERFORM GENOCIDE

What kind of ****** up logic is that?
Who wrote this masterpiece?

Teh, it's obvious you're not trying to understand.

The story itself is actually quite complex and ingenius.

There are no fewer than 20 critical flaws with your manner of thinking. Play the games, read the codex, and try to look at the plot and things going on.

"20 critical flaws"

Point at least 5 out to me.

[Aesieru]

Vaenier wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Teh, it's obvious you're not trying to understand.
The story itself is actually quite complex and ingenius.

Say something bad about the story and lore of Mass Effect. I am beginning to think you are a fanboy and would like to prove otherwise.

I'm disappointed we never saw much expansion on the collectors, while we can see their purpose and I support their usage, I have to also say that they really were just there for the mid-point. Logically had the council actually given a damn they'd of taken them out or helped, surprised saving their lives or the Citadel itself and galaxy as we know it from all death didn't really get us any favors to store up.

I am disappointed in the lack of diverse ships in the cutscenes and story, we still haven't seen a Dreadnought and while the Asari Destiny Ascension is technically a Dreadnought Flagship we didn't really see it do anything other than fire a few shots that really didn't do anything.

I've still never seen a gardian laser fire at anything.

I think the path of ME1 was a bit better designed than the path of ME2.

I am disappointed that ME3 doesn't have any Reaper conversations.

I have a lot of issues with it, but I still understand the story and for what it is, it's good.

[Obro]

So they want to stop Technological singularity ... by setting every species on a predetermined path that will always lead them to said technological singularity? That is stupid no mater how smart you are.

[Aesieru]

teh_619 wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

teh_619 wrote...

So they want to stop civilizations from advancing because they don't want them to make synthetics and destroy themselves.

To do that, they leave Mass Relays and other technological wonders to BOOST their advancement and when they ACTUALLY manage to create synthetic life due to the reapers helping them, THEY PERFORM GENOCIDE

What kind of ****** up logic is that?
Who wrote this masterpiece?

Teh, it's obvious you're not trying to understand.

The story itself is actually quite complex and ingenius.

There are no fewer than 20 critical flaws with your manner of thinking. Play the games, read the codex, and try to look at the plot and things going on.

"20 critical flaws"

Point at least 5 out to me.

You ignored Vigil and thus what the Citadel and Relays actually were for, as evidenced by your statement about them which completely ignores what they are for.

You have no real supporting evidence for anything you point out.

You latch onto points with an obvious lack of understanding for anything, either that or you just type away at the keyboard with a few short points that don't relate to anything.

You came into a discussion and started discussing while ignoring the entirety of the rest of the thread, or if you didn't ignore it, you sure didn't take anything from it, or else didn't even view it.

You have no idea what a Technological Singularity actually is but joined a discussion meant for those that do actually understand it.

[Tigerjunky]

Really the key to understanding... is reading the codex... lol

[Aesieru]

Obro wrote...

So they want to stop Technological singularity ... by setting every species on a predetermined path that will always lead them to said technological singularity? That is stupid no mater how smart you are.

Did you honestly ignore the contents of the entirety of this thread?

This has already been answered, defined, countered, and explained in an intelligent way.

---

The Relays merely focus our technology in one path so as to avoid other paths, thus all aliens and all races use the same technology and thus they are easily countered by those who can counter it. The Relays don't make a singularity occur or not, they just make it so the races can be destroyed easily.

[Vaenier]

Aesieru wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Teh, it's obvious you're not trying to understand.
The story itself is actually quite complex and ingenius.

Say something bad about the story and lore of Mass Effect. I am beginning to think you are a fanboy and would like to prove otherwise.

I'm disappointed we never saw much expansion on the collectors, while we can see their purpose and I support their usage, I have to also say that they really were just there for the mid-point. Logically had the council actually given a damn they'd of taken them out or helped, surprised saving their lives or the Citadel itself and galaxy as we know it from all death didn't really get us any favors to store up.

I am disappointed in the lack of diverse ships in the cutscenes and story, we still haven't seen a Dreadnought and while the Asari Destiny Ascension is technically a Dreadnought Flagship we didn't really see it do anything other than fire a few shots that really didn't do anything.

I've still never seen a gardian laser fire at anything.

I think the path of ME1 was a bit better designed than the path of ME2.

I am disappointed that ME3 doesn't have any Reaper conversations.

I have a lot of issues with it, but I still understand the story and for what it is, it's good.

Good to hear, I hate people who drone on about how its all perfect and there is never anything wrong with it. I rather talk with a wall really.

But you are still sounding a little pretentious, which makes it hard to have a good conversation. We all have to remember we all care or cared about Mass Effect at one point and are just trying to make it better.

[Aesieru]

Vaenier wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Teh, it's obvious you're not trying to understand.
The story itself is actually quite complex and ingenius.

Say something bad about the story and lore of Mass Effect. I am beginning to think you are a fanboy and would like to prove otherwise.

I'm disappointed we never saw much expansion on the collectors, while we can see their purpose and I support their usage, I have to also say that they really were just there for the mid-point. Logically had the council actually given a damn they'd of taken them out or helped, surprised saving their lives or the Citadel itself and galaxy as we know it from all death didn't really get us any favors to store up.

I am disappointed in the lack of diverse ships in the cutscenes and story, we still haven't seen a Dreadnought and while the Asari Destiny Ascension is technically a Dreadnought Flagship we didn't really see it do anything other than fire a few shots that really didn't do anything.

I've still never seen a gardian laser fire at anything.

I think the path of ME1 was a bit better designed than the path of ME2.

I am disappointed that ME3 doesn't have any Reaper conversations.

I have a lot of issues with it, but I still understand the story and for what it is, it's good.

Good to hear, I hate people who drone on about how its all perfect and there is never anything wrong with it. I rather talk with a wall really.

But you are still sounding a little pretentious, which makes it hard to have a good conversation. We all have to remember we all care or cared about Mass Effect at one point and are just trying to make it better.

A lot of people are coming on here because they heard something by hearsay or they found something, then they misinterpreted it, then they think they know everything or that the game is just about shooting Geth / Reapers, and they don't understand any of it, and while that's fine and dandy, they do not have the responsibility nor... for lack of a better word "right" to insist that everything is bad because they merely don't think it's right, despite how much knowledge they do or do not have.

We are allowed to have an opinion sure and we can vote with our money, but when you begin to insist that it's wrong not because you didn't like it, but because you think it's stupid, and you can't provide any rational reasoning to why when considering that which has been given by information and plot and lore... then it becomes an insult to me.

As for my being pretentious, I think my mentality is pretentious in a subtle or subconscious manner that I can not do anything about because I never recognize it and therefore I will just agree to disagree.

---

I came into Mass Effect when I was in Arizona without knowing anything about the game before that second, and saw it being played on a 360 original on a torrented copy disc while I was attending a prior university. I think I may or may not have (don't recall) played a few minutes of my friends torrented copy and I know I saw the relay cutscene and the cinematic opening. After viewing it, a few days later or sooner, I bought the game.

That's how I got into ME.

Modifié par Aesieru, 04 mars 2012 - 06:29 .

[Vaenier]

Aesieru wrote...

Obro wrote...

So they want to stop Technological singularity ... by setting every species on a predetermined path that will always lead them to said technological singularity? That is stupid no mater how smart you are.

Did you honestly ignore the contents of the entirety of this thread?

This has already been answered, defined, countered, and explained in an intelligent way.

---

The Relays merely focus our technology in one path so as to avoid other paths, thus all aliens and all races use the same technology and thus they are easily countered by those who can counter it. The Relays don't make a singularity occur or not, they just make it so the races can be destroyed easily.

The relays focus our FTL technology on a single path, it makes it easier to monitor the galaxy for other technological developments because its all connected then. So with the destruction/capture/alliance with the Reapers, doesnt that make the destruction of the Relays moot? They were the one that made the Relays a trap, without them, they are just a tool.

[Obro]

I did not ignore it and I like some of the things you wrote but it's still based on speculation. The fact is the endings was rushed and is pretty hard to take for seriously.

The Citadel is a vessel for an AI called Catalyst that controls the Reapers.
The kid we see in the intro sequence is Catalyst messing around with Shepard.
Catalyst's function is to prevent synthetics from exterminating all organic life.
He does this by exterminating advanced organic life before they can create synthetic life (BioWare plothole 1: Quarians created the Geth, who achieved self-awareness several hundred years before the start of Mass Effect. BioWare plothole 2: Why not just exterminate synthetic life whenever they achieve self-awareness?).
Just so it can't be reasoned that Catalyst is wiping out organic life, he preserves the races he wipes out in Reaper form (BioWare plothole 3: Then why were the Collectors still around?).

If they didnt rush the games cause EA told them to maybe we would have got a better explanation of Collectors in ME2 but we DIDN'T.

[teh_619]

Aesieru wrote...

teh_619 wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

teh_619 wrote...

So they want to stop civilizations from advancing because they don't want them to make synthetics and destroy themselves.

To do that, they leave Mass Relays and other technological wonders to BOOST their advancement and when they ACTUALLY manage to create synthetic life due to the reapers helping them, THEY PERFORM GENOCIDE

What kind of ****** up logic is that?
Who wrote this masterpiece?

Teh, it's obvious you're not trying to understand.

The story itself is actually quite complex and ingenius.

There are no fewer than 20 critical flaws with your manner of thinking. Play the games, read the codex, and try to look at the plot and things going on.

"20 critical flaws"

Point at least 5 out to me.

"You ignored Vigil and thus what the Citadel and Relays actually were for, as evidenced by your statement about them which completely ignores what they are for."

I know what they are for. Still there's no reasonable explanation of why the reapers didn't prevent humans and other civs from using them.


"You have no real supporting evidence for anything you point out."

Have you watched the ending? That's exactly EXACTLY what it's been claimed. I can PM it to you.

"You latch onto points with an obvious lack of understanding for anything, either that or you just type away at the keyboard with a few short points that don't relate to anything."

Personal attack, no point.



"You came into a discussion and started discussing while ignoring the entirety of the rest of the thread, or if you didn't ignore it, you sure didn't take anything from it, or else didn't even view it."
Same.

You have no idea what a Technological Singularity actually is but joined a discussion meant for those that do actually understand it.
Same.

I'm ready for the rest of your 15.

[teh_619]

And I'd also like to listen to your reasoning on why reapers do what they do.

[Nathan Redgrave]

teh_619 wrote...

I'm ready for the rest of your 15.

Why don't you answer for the five you asked for, first?

[Aesieru]

Obro wrote...

I did not ignore it and I like some of the things you wrote but it's still based on speculation. The fact is the endings was rushed and is pretty hard to take for seriously.

The Citadel is a vessel for an AI called Catalyst that controls the Reapers.
The kid we see in the intro sequence is Catalyst messing around with Shepard.
Catalyst's function is to prevent synthetics from exterminating all organic life.
He does this by exterminating advanced organic life before they can create synthetic life (BioWare plothole 1: Quarians created the Geth, who achieved self-awareness several hundred years before the start of Mass Effect. BioWare plothole 2: Why not just exterminate synthetic life whenever they achieve self-awareness?).
Just so it can't be reasoned that Catalyst is wiping out organic life, he preserves the races he wipes out in Reaper form (BioWare plothole 3: Then why were the Collectors still around?).

If they didnt rush the games cause EA told them to maybe we would have got a better explanation of Collectors in ME2 but we DIDN'T.

According to the Guardian speech, it only controls the Reapers in the manner that it makes them follow an abort code of sorts and insists on reminding them of their root process for being when they were first created alongside it. They aren't remote control death squids and it never insinuated as such. Believing that it is like that is what leads me to the conclusion you do not understand it properly.

[teh_619]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

teh_619 wrote...

I'm ready for the rest of your 15.

Why don't you answer for the five you asked for, first?

I did. Look closer.

[Obro]

Aesieru wrote...

Obro wrote...

I did not ignore it and I like some of the things you wrote but it's still based on speculation. The fact is the endings was rushed and is pretty hard to take for seriously.

The Citadel is a vessel for an AI called Catalyst that controls the Reapers.
The kid we see in the intro sequence is Catalyst messing around with Shepard.
Catalyst's function is to prevent synthetics from exterminating all organic life.
He does this by exterminating advanced organic life before they can create synthetic life (BioWare plothole 1: Quarians created the Geth, who achieved self-awareness several hundred years before the start of Mass Effect. BioWare plothole 2: Why not just exterminate synthetic life whenever they achieve self-awareness?).
Just so it can't be reasoned that Catalyst is wiping out organic life, he preserves the races he wipes out in Reaper form (BioWare plothole 3: Then why were the Collectors still around?).

If they didnt rush the games cause EA told them to maybe we would have got a better explanation of Collectors in ME2 but we DIDN'T.

According to the Guardian speech, it only controls the Reapers in the manner that it makes them follow an abort code of sorts and insists on reminding them of their root process for being when they were first created alongside it. They aren't remote control death squids and it never insinuated as such. Believing that it is like that is what leads me to the conclusion you do not understand it properly.

He also says that "the created will always rebel against their creators" so why didn't Reapers turn on him OR how come he (as he is AI) didn't turn on his creators?

[Aesieru]

Vaenier wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Obro wrote...

So they want to stop Technological singularity ... by setting every species on a predetermined path that will always lead them to said technological singularity? That is stupid no mater how smart you are.

Did you honestly ignore the contents of the entirety of this thread?

This has already been answered, defined, countered, and explained in an intelligent way.

---

The Relays merely focus our technology in one path so as to avoid other paths, thus all aliens and all races use the same technology and thus they are easily countered by those who can counter it. The Relays don't make a singularity occur or not, they just make it so the races can be destroyed easily.

The relays focus our FTL technology on a single path, it makes it easier to monitor the galaxy for other technological developments because its all connected then. So with the destruction/capture/alliance with the Reapers, doesnt that make the destruction of the Relays moot? They were the one that made the Relays a trap, without them, they are just a tool.

Each alien race uses the same technology because no reason to diverge exists upon discovering and using the technology of the Relays and the Citadels. Alien races stop diverging and advancing and essentially become stagnant.

In Human history we have confirmed numerous times that without a need for diverging we don't. The Wars and natural calamities are the only thing in our history that has forced us to change and had we not, we would not have had our technologies or capabilities that we do today, and we also would be stagnant.