325 réponses à ce sujet

[ninjaNumber1]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Tigerjunky wrote...

WAIT WOAH WOAH WOAH!..... Wouldn't destroying the Mass Relays just cause this singularity thing to happen many different times on a small scale, instead of one big time on a large scale?...PLOT HOLE?? 0.o

Nope.  Two out of the three options try to deal with technological singularity.  Control is basically a wait and see, then come back or kill off organics if they hit a tech singularity.  Synergy is trying to prevent it by making every organic a unique hybrid of organic and machine.  A hybrid that "hopefully" would avoid a singularity because of built in knowledge of what causes one (i think) and they would already be super intelligences similar to the Reapers.  Unfortunately races would have new ways of think and would lose their unique qualities (Krogan, Humans, Asari, Turian's etc would have their race qualities evened out by synthesis).

The two options also allow for the quickest recovery technologically.  Both leave technology untouched save for the relays since it seems they overload when the new command is given/executed. 

Destroy is the ending that ignores the Guardian's warnings and leaves technological singularity not only on the table, but bound to happen imo.  Shepard is counting and/or believes it's better to leave the fates of races to themselves.  If it leads to technological singularity so be it.  Freedom is more important.  Everyone starts over without any AI/synthetic technology.

What shepard does in Destroy should be what the Guardian should have been doing all these years, albeit, minus it-self. Every 50,000 years (or readjusted number of years), it should just destroy all synthetic life. That way, no organics would ever reach the Tech-singularity anyway.

I see where you're coming from there, but the problem is that does not destroy the people with the knowledge to build such things.  You would still have billions of people running around where most of them would die out, but others could possibly rebuild civilization in no time.

Synthesis covers that scenario if it works the way it seems it works:

-Transform every organic into an organic/machine hybrid

-Make them super intelligent and able to stay indpeendent form using AI (compared it to cybernetic versions of Dune's Mentats in another thread)

-Basically make these new form of organics unwilling or unable to create anything that would cause a tech singularity by programming an instinctive warning.

-The cost of which is essentially losing any semblence of our tendencies and unrestricted freedom.  All races would become pretty much the same.  It does appears in that ending we still have most of our free will and emotions.  The back and forth between Shep and the Guardian about Reaperification leads me to believe there is  a distinction between Reapers and Synthesis.  Synthesis being a step or two below full blown Reapers with each individual being a perfected synergy with again, free will... to a point.

But what I mean is that the Guardian should destroy all other synthetic life using the reapers every 50,000 years or less rather than destroy organics. That way, its impossible to reach a tech singularity and less harm done to organics. It will also serve as a continuour reminder for every generation that might forget what happens if they engage in development of synthetics.

This is why I feel the whole idea of a Guardian trying to stop a Tech-singularity by wiping out organics is a plot hole. There are better solutions.

Modifié par ninjaNumber1, 04 mars 2012 - 06:38 .

[Aesieru]

Obro wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Obro wrote...

I did not ignore it and I like some of the things you wrote but it's still based on speculation. The fact is the endings was rushed and is pretty hard to take for seriously.

The Citadel is a vessel for an AI called Catalyst that controls the Reapers.
The kid we see in the intro sequence is Catalyst messing around with Shepard.
Catalyst's function is to prevent synthetics from exterminating all organic life.
He does this by exterminating advanced organic life before they can create synthetic life (BioWare plothole 1: Quarians created the Geth, who achieved self-awareness several hundred years before the start of Mass Effect. BioWare plothole 2: Why not just exterminate synthetic life whenever they achieve self-awareness?).
Just so it can't be reasoned that Catalyst is wiping out organic life, he preserves the races he wipes out in Reaper form (BioWare plothole 3: Then why were the Collectors still around?).

If they didnt rush the games cause EA told them to maybe we would have got a better explanation of Collectors in ME2 but we DIDN'T.

According to the Guardian speech, it only controls the Reapers in the manner that it makes them follow an abort code of sorts and insists on reminding them of their root process for being when they were first created alongside it. They aren't remote control death squids and it never insinuated as such. Believing that it is like that is what leads me to the conclusion you do not understand it properly.

He also says that "the created will always rebel against their creators" so why didn't Reapers turn on him OR how come he (as he is AI) didn't turn on his creators?

Becausse the Reapers aren't AI. They are Synthetic-Organic AI Constructs that each have a race preserved in them which is part of the Reaper process. They are for lack of a better analogy, caretakers of the galaxy that keep the cogs turning.

Modifié par Aesieru, 04 mars 2012 - 06:36 .

[Aesieru]

teh_619 wrote...

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

teh_619 wrote...

I'm ready for the rest of your 15.

Why don't you answer for the five you asked for, first?

I did. Look closer.

You misused what a personal attack is and then didn't answer the 2 after that. And you made a short response that makes no sense. It isn't that it doesn't make sense merely because you think it doesn't.

Read the Codex or play the games, or gosh just read all the posts in this thread.

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Tigerjunky wrote...

WAIT WOAH WOAH WOAH!..... Wouldn't destroying the Mass Relays just cause this singularity thing to happen many different times on a small scale, instead of one big time on a large scale?...PLOT HOLE?? 0.o

Nope.  Two out of the three options try to deal with technological singularity.  Control is basically a wait and see, then come back or kill off organics if they hit a tech singularity.  Synergy is trying to prevent it by making every organic a unique hybrid of organic and machine.  A hybrid that "hopefully" would avoid a singularity because of built in knowledge of what causes one (i think) and they would already be super intelligences similar to the Reapers.  Unfortunately races would have new ways of think and would lose their unique qualities (Krogan, Humans, Asari, Turian's etc would have their race qualities evened out by synthesis).

The two options also allow for the quickest recovery technologically.  Both leave technology untouched save for the relays since it seems they overload when the new command is given/executed.  

Destroy is the ending that ignores the Guardian's warnings and leaves technological singularity not only on the table, but bound to happen imo.  Shepard is counting and/or believes it's better to leave the fates of races to themselves.  If it leads to technological singularity so be it.  Freedom is more important.  Everyone starts over without any AI/synthetic technology.

What shepard does in Destroy should be what the Guardian should have been doing all these years, albeit, minus it-self. Every 50,000 years (or readjusted number of years), it should just destroy all synthetic life. That way, no organics would ever reach the Tech-singularity anyway.

I see where you're coming from there, but the problem is that does not destroy the people with the knowledge to build such things.  You would still have billions of people running around where most of them would die out, but others could possibly rebuild civilization in no time.

Synthesis covers that scenario if it works the way it seems it works:

-Transform every organic into an organic/machine hybrid

-Make them super intelligent and able to stay indpeendent form using AI (compared it to cybernetic versions of Dune's Mentats in another thread)

-Basically make these new form of organics unwilling or unable to create anything that would cause a tech singularity by programming an instinctive warning.

-The cost of which is essentially losing any semblence of our tendencies and unrestricted freedom.  All races would become pretty much the same.  It does appears in that ending we still have most of our free will and emotions.  The back and forth between Shep and the Guardian about Reaperification leads me to believe there is  a distinction between Reapers and Synthesis.  Synthesis being a step or two below full blown Reapers with each individual being a perfected synergy with again, free will... to a point.

But what I mean is that the Guardian should destroy all other synthetic life using the reapers every 50,000 years or less rather than destroy organics. That way, its impossible to reach a tech singularity and less harm done to organics. It will also serve as a continuour reminder for every generation that might forget what happens if they engage in development of synthetics.

This is why I feel the whole idea of a Guardian trying to stop a Tech-singularity by wiping out organics is a plot hole. There are better solutions. 

This is sort of like the plot-hole they had in the movie Watchmen btw.

 

What happens if that synthetic life advances beyond what the Reapers can take? AI's advance quicker than humans after all.

Modifié par Aesieru, 04 mars 2012 - 06:38 .

[teh_619]

Aesieru wrote...

teh_619 wrote...

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

teh_619 wrote...

I'm ready for the rest of your 15.

Why don't you answer for the five you asked for, first?

I did. Look closer.

You misused what a personal attack is and then didn't answer the 2 after that. And you made a short response that makes no sense. It isn't that it doesn't make sense merely because you think it doesn't.

Read the Codex or play the games, or gosh just read all the posts in this thread.

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Tigerjunky wrote...

WAIT WOAH WOAH WOAH!..... Wouldn't destroying the Mass Relays just cause this singularity thing to happen many different times on a small scale, instead of one big time on a large scale?...PLOT HOLE?? 0.o

Nope.  Two out of the three options try to deal with technological singularity.  Control is basically a wait and see, then come back or kill off organics if they hit a tech singularity.  Synergy is trying to prevent it by making every organic a unique hybrid of organic and machine.  A hybrid that "hopefully" would avoid a singularity because of built in knowledge of what causes one (i think) and they would already be super intelligences similar to the Reapers.  Unfortunately races would have new ways of think and would lose their unique qualities (Krogan, Humans, Asari, Turian's etc would have their race qualities evened out by synthesis).

The two options also allow for the quickest recovery technologically.  Both leave technology untouched save for the relays since it seems they overload when the new command is given/executed.  

Destroy is the ending that ignores the Guardian's warnings and leaves technological singularity not only on the table, but bound to happen imo.  Shepard is counting and/or believes it's better to leave the fates of races to themselves.  If it leads to technological singularity so be it.  Freedom is more important.  Everyone starts over without any AI/synthetic technology.

What shepard does in Destroy should be what the Guardian should have been doing all these years, albeit, minus it-self. Every 50,000 years (or readjusted number of years), it should just destroy all synthetic life. That way, no organics would ever reach the Tech-singularity anyway.

I see where you're coming from there, but the problem is that does not destroy the people with the knowledge to build such things.  You would still have billions of people running around where most of them would die out, but others could possibly rebuild civilization in no time.

Synthesis covers that scenario if it works the way it seems it works:

-Transform every organic into an organic/machine hybrid

-Make them super intelligent and able to stay indpeendent form using AI (compared it to cybernetic versions of Dune's Mentats in another thread)

-Basically make these new form of organics unwilling or unable to create anything that would cause a tech singularity by programming an instinctive warning.

-The cost of which is essentially losing any semblence of our tendencies and unrestricted freedom.  All races would become pretty much the same.  It does appears in that ending we still have most of our free will and emotions.  The back and forth between Shep and the Guardian about Reaperification leads me to believe there is  a distinction between Reapers and Synthesis.  Synthesis being a step or two below full blown Reapers with each individual being a perfected synergy with again, free will... to a point.

But what I mean is that the Guardian should destroy all other synthetic life using the reapers every 50,000 years or less rather than destroy organics. That way, its impossible to reach a tech singularity and less harm done to organics. It will also serve as a continuour reminder for every generation that might forget what happens if they engage in development of synthetics.

This is why I feel the whole idea of a Guardian trying to stop a Tech-singularity by wiping out organics is a plot hole. There are better solutions. 

This is sort of like the plot-hole they had in the movie Watchmen btw.

 

What happens if that synthetic life advances beyond what the Reapers can take? AI's advance quicker than humans after all.

Give me a short answer on why the reapers destroy civilizations.
Telling me to "play the games' is not an answer.

[Turel11234]

Obro wrote...

BioWare plothole 1: Quarians created the Geth, who achieved self-awareness several hundred years before the start of Mass Effect.


BioWare plothole 2: Why not just exterminate synthetic life whenever they achieve self-awareness?


Just so it can't be reasoned that Catalyst is wiping out organic life, he preserves the races he wipes out in Reaper form (BioWare plothole 3: Then why were the Collectors still around?)

1: Do your research.
they tried to begin the cycle 1700 years before the creation of the geth. Reapers tried to use Rachni as the diversion as they flood through the citadel. Prothean meddling made this option unviable, so Sov laid low and waited for oportunities to summon his bros.


2: 
Do you really think that races of the galaxy will stand still while giant squid aliens begin destroying their lifestyle?
It will lead to bloodshed one way or the other. And besides they'll just make new ones even faster.
This method would require constant invigilation and CONTROL. you would exist with reapers constantly looking over your shoulder.


3:
They we're not viable for memorializing  of their collective consciousnes in reaper form for some reason - but still had their uses.

Modifié par Turel11234, 04 mars 2012 - 06:41 .

[ninjaNumber1]

Aesieru wrote...

What happens if that synthetic life advances beyond what the Reapers can take? AI's advance quicker than humans after all.

Aah, but the thing is that can never take place immediately. If I suddenly created the most advanced synthetic, that does not cause the tech singularity. On the other hand, as soon as I detect that this has happened, I as the Guardian can deploy my forces and eliminate that AI including all others who engaged in creating it.

So that doesn't seem to be a risk at all since the probability that the first AI ever to be created is going to be as powerful as the Reapers is improbable. Everytime all synthetics are destroyed, it sends back AI reasearch back to square one. Not just because the synethics are all destroyed but because the people who witness the power of the reapers that are unstoppable themselves realize the threat of creating synthetics.

[darkangelvxvx]

The Organic Reaper:





 



An Encyclopod from Futurama: The Wild Green Yonder.



heh... Take the Matrix Reloaded, and throw in the Encyclopod, and up with Mass Effect 3.  Awesome.

Modifié par darkangelvxvx, 04 mars 2012 - 06:42 .

[Obro]

Jesus stop with the quotes.

@Aesieru

but the guardian is

[ninjaNumber1]

Turel11234 wrote...

Do you really think that races of the galaxy will stand still while giant squid aliens begin destroying their lifestyle?
It will lead to bloodshed one way or the other. And besides they'll just make new ones even faster.
This method would require constant invigilation and CONTROL. you would exist with reapers constantly looking over your shoulder.

Actually, this is incorrect. Because every single time the Reapers intervene, the civilisations witness their power and are reminded of the threat with creating a synthetic race.

So no-one will be rebuilding synthetic life pretty soon. If you want to make it more easier, the reapers could also destroy all those who are engaged in AI research. So the reaper fleet will be like an enforcer against creation and research in to AI.

As the other races try to stop the reapers from defending their synthetics, they will realize how powerful these synthetics that were created priori. The reapers could even tell them that the reason for causing the destruction is because they do not want us to create them and wipe themselves out.

Modifié par ninjaNumber1, 04 mars 2012 - 06:47 .

[Aesieru]

Give me a short answer on why the reapers destroy civilizations.
Telling me to "play the games' is not an answer.

REASON REAPERS DESTROY CIVILIZATIONS:


Okay, one more time.

---

Reapers destroy civilizations when they have reached their prime because that is the determinate of when they begin to develop Artificial Intelligences or already have developed Artificial Intelligences or similar things that will advance beyond a point of understanding or need for organics and regardless of hostile or passive behavior, will begin to expand over a period of time (thousands upon thousands of years or longer) that will be fed by the devouring of all resources in the solar systems and then the galaxy, because they have no restriction or checks and balances for what they do and no need for all the things that keep organic life in check and don't care about terraforming because they just use the resources to constantly expand. Eventually alien races or Humanity or any race will see this as a negative because the world is being decayed and they will attack.

This attack despite hostile or passive intentions of the AI race will be defeated utterly because of the massive advancement and expansion of that alien species and will then render organic life destroyed (possibly be destroyed before this if they are hostile or see no need for organics at some point). The attempt to fight a significantly advanced AI form is nearly impossible due to the ability to affect all technology rendering ships useless and weapons useless, and the advanced nature of their expansion and development which would give them a significant lead over other races.

To prevent galactic extinction of all organic races in a permanent capacity and the rendering of all resources in the galaxy as null, the Reapers are contacted each 50,000 years or sooner depending on this occuring or nearly occuring, in an attempt to preempt the destruction of the galaxy. They do not destroy everything, merely harvest all technology, preserve the organic races still left if any, and destroy anything with sufficient technology to be used in an Artificial Construction. They then erase all record of themselves as best they can, leave a Vanguard to call them and constantly assess the condition of the galaxy, and then leave through the Citadel back into dark space to do it all over again.

They are caretakers.

--- The relays prevent the use of diverging technologies so as to keep things in a stagnant and logical procession that the Reapers can always counter because they are superior to them as they created that technology and thus logically have the most advanced form of it.

Modifié par Aesieru, 04 mars 2012 - 06:49 .

[Obro]

Turel11234 wrote...
3:
They we're not viable for memorializing  of their collective consciousnes in reaper form for some reason - but still had their uses.

they were viable enought to warn the next generation that brought to the reaper downfall 

[Tigerjunky]

the more and more i think about it the more i think these endings are brilliant.... I still hate them... but they are brilliant in a way

[Aesieru]

Obro wrote...

Turel11234 wrote...
3:
They we're not viable for memorializing  of their collective consciousnes in reaper form for some reason - but still had their uses.

they were viable enought to warn the next generation that brought to the reaper downfall 

Do you realize how evil and terrible the Protheans actually were? ME3 explains how terrible a race they were. They even created an AI Race merely to enslave it and which caused a rebellion on their own, this pissed off the Reapers.

[ninjaNumber1]

Tigerjunky wrote...

the more and more i think about it the more i think these endings are brilliant.... I still hate them... but they are brilliant in a way

In which way are they brilliant? They don't make logical sense, no?

[Aesieru]

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Tigerjunky wrote...

the more and more i think about it the more i think these endings are brilliant.... I still hate them... but they are brilliant in a way

In which way are they brilliant? They don't make logical sense, no?

....

.......

...........

*POINTS AT THREAD*

*FACEPALM X INFINITY*

[ninjaNumber1]

Aesieru wrote...

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Tigerjunky wrote...

the more and more i think about it the more i think these endings are brilliant.... I still hate them... but they are brilliant in a way

In which way are they brilliant? They don't make logical sense, no?

....

.......

...........

*POINTS AT THREAD*

*FACEPALM X INFINITY*

?

As far as I can see, there is no answer on this thread to the question as to why doesn't the reaper race eliminate synthetic life instead rather than eliminating organics.

The elimination of organics goes contrary to their very wish to preserve it.

Modifié par ninjaNumber1, 04 mars 2012 - 06:52 .

[Heathen Pride]

Legendaryred wrote...

Heathen Pride wrote...

It's just lame. The dark matter/dark energy reason was better but Drew quit so they had to quickly throw something together.

Can you tell me what was that dark energy reason? 

http://www.ign.com/b...lers.250066288/


"The Reapers' goal was to find a way to stop the spread of Dark
Energy which would eventually consume everything. That's why there was
so much foreshadowing about Dark Energy in ME2.



The Reapers as a whole were 'nations' of people who had fused
together in the most horrific way possible to help find a way to stop
the spread of the Dark Energy. The real reason for the Human Reaper was
supposed to be the Reapers saving throw because they had run out of
time. Humanity in Mass Effect is supposedly unique because of it's
genetic diversity and represented the universe's best chance at stopping
Dark Energy's spread.



The original final choice was going to be "Kill the Reapers and put
your faith in the races of the galaxy in finding another way to stop the
spread with what little time is left" or "Sacrifice humanity, allowing
them to be horrifically processed in hopes that the end result will
justify the means."



The SomethingAwful guy then goes on to say that all the foreshadowing
about dark energy in ME2 (including Haestrom) is never brought up again
in ME3.

Modifié par Heathen Pride, 04 mars 2012 - 07:01 .

[Aesieru]

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Tigerjunky wrote...

the more and more i think about it the more i think these endings are brilliant.... I still hate them... but they are brilliant in a way

In which way are they brilliant? They don't make logical sense, no?

....

.......

...........

*POINTS AT THREAD*

*FACEPALM X INFINITY*

?

As far as I can see, there is no answer on this thread to the question as to why doesn't the reaper race eliminate synthetic life instead rather than eliminating organics.

The elimination of organics goes contrary to their very wish to preserve it.

Actually they make each race into a Reaper so it does get preserved.

As for synthetics, it's very possible for spur of the moment rebellions to occur at any time and potentially if the organic race was advanced enough past a certain point, they could seize all that advanced technology through a virus or some sort and potentially fight off the reapers.

Worse is the fear that an AI might advance beyond the stagnation prison of the relays and LEAVE the confines of the galaxy or relays, thus allowing them to go off and deplete the galaxy and potentially other galaxies at their behest. That is the real danger the possibility for them to stealthily leave.

[teh_619]

@Aesieru

So what's the point of preserving the resources in the universe if using those resources only means that civilizations will advance - only to destroy themselves?

How are the reapers "incomprehensible" to humans?

Why not preserve historical events and show it to sentient beings instead of hiding it and destroying everything?

Their reasoning seems to circle around the logical fallacy that civilizations will NOT learn from past mistakes and will, no matter what, destroy themselves.

What is this basis if that "opinion"? They're just mad machines stopping all progress because they think progress will automatically lead to negative results.

Modifié par teh_619, 04 mars 2012 - 06:57 .

[Obro]

Aesieru wrote...

Obro wrote...

Turel11234 wrote...
3:
They we're not viable for memorializing  of their collective consciousnes in reaper form for some reason - but still had their uses.

they were viable enought to warn the next generation that brought to the reaper downfall 

Do you realize how evil and terrible the Protheans actually were? ME3 explains how terrible a race they were. They even created an AI Race merely to enslave it and which caused a rebellion on their own, this pissed off the Reapers.

did not play ME3 it's not out yet

[ninjaNumber1]

Aesieru wrote...

Actually they make each race into a Reaper so it does get preserved.

As for synthetics, it's very possible for spur of the moment rebellions to occur at any time and potentially if the organic race was advanced enough past a certain point, they could seize all that advanced technology through a virus or some sort and potentially fight off the reapers.

Worse is the fear that an AI might advance beyond the stagnation prison of the relays and LEAVE the confines of the galaxy or relays, thus allowing them to go off and deplete the galaxy and potentially other galaxies at their behest. That is the real danger the possibility for them to stealthily leave.

See, here is what I don't understand. Lets say reapers arrive today and destroy every single AI advancement we have including those involved in it. They will also make it known that they are what our AI advances will end up becoming and would also end up wiping us out.

Would we then immediately go back to rebuilding our AI? We would realize what we might create and at least hold it off for some generations until some one else restarts the same cycle. Then reapers can come again and we are once again reminded of the threat etc etc.

If you want to be more precise, maybe the reapers can visit and destroy ALL tech advancements to put everyone back a lot more years.

In any case, my point is that the destruction of masses of organics is unneccesarry if the sole goal is to preserve organic life and prevent a tech singularity. There are other better methods available that are less wasteful.

[Aesieru]

teh_619 wrote...

@Aesieru

So what's the point of preserving the resources in the universe if using those resources only means that civilizations will advance - only to destroy themselves?

How are the reapers "incomprehensible" to humans?

Why not preserve historical events and show it to sentient beings instead of hiding it destroying everything?

Their logic seems to circle around the logical fallacy that civilizations will NOT learn from past mistakes and will, no matter what, destroy themselves.

What is this basis if that "opinion"? They're just mad machines stopping all progress because they think progress will automatically lead to negative results.

No Human or alien race will ever be able to understand that they need to die so the galaxy can live, constantly. Because they have self-preservation written into their code and while a few will commit suicide from time to time, the entirety of the race will not, especially in the painful processes that it is done in. That is why it is incomprehensible.

History has shown that history repeats itself, unendingly, because people forget, or move on, or think they won't make the same mistakes.

Just look at all the attempts to understand indoctrination and you'll see everyone always failed anyway.

Our own history shows similar issues of lack of understanding or ignorance towards history.

---

Also it should be indicated that the Protheans did exactly what the Reapers feared and intentionally at that, as well as being the worst slavers ever. So... it stands to reason that if the Reapers didn't see anything going wrong they might call it off, but I don't think they've ever had a single 50k or so years where the same thing didn't happen.

---

If a child makes a mistake constantly do you just tell it not do it or do you swap his hand the next time he does it and tell him why?

If you look at galactic civilizations as a child and the Reapers as a parent they swat you (kill you) after you've made a big mistake and then let the next reverbation of you (the next race / child) try again.

The potential for an AI to somehow escape the confines of the relays is too dangerous and more than likely if the Reapers came and hurt you once and you knew what they could do, you'd not want to fear what they can do and so you'd try to rise up against them with a force, and to prevent that, they kill you too.

Modifié par Aesieru, 04 mars 2012 - 07:01 .

[Turel11234]

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Tigerjunky wrote...

the more and more i think about it the more i think these endings are brilliant.... I still hate them... but they are brilliant in a way

In which way are they brilliant? They don't make logical sense, no?

....

.......

...........

*POINTS AT THREAD*

*FACEPALM X INFINITY*

?

As far as I can see, there is no answer on this thread to the question as to why doesn't the reaper race eliminate synthetic life instead rather than eliminating organics.

The elimination of organics goes contrary to their very wish to preserve it.

The reapers don't care about individual races, they care about wellbeing of organic life as a whole.

And as i already said, your idea is implausible.
There will be bloodshed either way as the galaxy won't stand for this, even if they will destroy the creators that won't exactly give them any support - from galaxy point of view the are just some genocidal machines.
We would have a galaxy under total control of reapers living in fear - which ain't no better than whats currently happening.
No scratch that, it's worse actully - the way there is now all the races are allowed 50k yrs of freedom.
You idea is just a simple opression.

[ninjaNumber1]

teh_619 wrote...
Their reasoning seems to circle around the logical fallacy that civilizations will NOT learn from past mistakes and will, no matter what, destroy themselves.

Exactly! Its also built on a false premise that the only solution is to eradicate organics when the more obvious solution would be eradicate synethtic development carried out by organics.

[Balek-Vriege]

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Turel11234 wrote...

Do you really think that races of the galaxy will stand still while giant squid aliens begin destroying their lifestyle?
It will lead to bloodshed one way or the other. And besides they'll just make new ones even faster.
This method would require constant invigilation and CONTROL. you would exist with reapers constantly looking over your shoulder.

Actually, this is incorrect. Because every single time the Reapers intervene, the civilisations witness their power and are reminded of the threat with creating a synthetic race.

So no-one will be rebuilding synthetic life pretty soon. If you want to make it more easier, the reapers could also destroy all those who are engaged in AI research. So the reaper fleet will be like an enforcer against creation and research in to AI.

As the other races try to stop the reapers from defending their synthetics, they will realize how powerful these synthetics that were created priori. The reapers could even tell them that the reason for causing the destruction is because they do not want us to create them and wipe themselves out.

Maybe and thereby causing a technological dark ages like Warhammer 40K and Dune.  The Reapers risk exposure to being overtaken though by those who don't believe in what the Reapers say or by the AI themselves.  Also there's the problem of races hiding their AI advancements or knowledge of how to overthrow from the Reapers.  The same way Cerberus and others hide AI advancements from the eyes of the Council.

The other point to this is whether the creators of the Guardian and the Reapers believed in genetic diversity, or a mercifully merciless end to races instead of controlling them.  Moral and logistical considerations do lean towards the "stay hidden, lay a trap and clean up when necessary" plan.

Basically it comes down to knowledge is power and ignorance is bliss.


Edit:

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

teh_619 wrote...
Their reasoning seems to circle around the logical fallacy that civilizations will NOT learn from past mistakes and will, no matter what, destroy themselves.

Exactly! Its also built on a false premise that the only solution is to eradicate organics when the more obvious solution would be eradicate synethtic development carried out by organics.

That's assuming there's a chance for a civilization to learn from past mistakes after a technological singularity.  It's very possible the creators of the Reapers were one of these civilizations and the Reapers were their answer to it.

You still have the problem of "organic" nature.  People with free will do stupid things sometimes and make stupid mistakes.  All it takes is that one mad scientist, on a far off world to get things started.  The Reaper plan is the most efficient from a logical point of view.  Their moral judgement (well their creator; judgement) is that killing off advanced organics every 50K years is the safest way possible to prevent organics from ceasing to exist.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 04 mars 2012 - 07:06 .