97 réponses à ce sujet

[Aesieru]

Vaenier wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

As long as there isn't one ending where the relays aren't destroyed, I'm not interested. If it comes at the price of Shepard's life, that's OK with me, but I want an ending where galactic civilization is preserved. Since I don't need to die to stop the Reapers, what else is there worth dying for?

You do realize that the relays are a trap and a prison?

The expansion of new technologies that we actually understand could easily rebuild galactic civilization. 

Civilization endures, it just takes time... 

Why cant we also research alternate methods while keeping them? The military implications of non relay dependant travel would ensure funding. Why doom billions to starvation by cutting off their trade for food? Why cripple colonies without spare parts for their air scrubbers? You would send the galaxy into a crippling recession, kill billions, just because you dont yet understand something?

While undoubtedly some races such as the Quarian fleet would logically be damaged in some form, and other larger colonies or worlds might have difficulties if they didn't have their own farming methods and relied on space transport for them instead... the fact remains that FTL travel still exists, you can send ships to places, and relatively quickly they would of set up a form of communication in some capacity. The primary Capital worlds would more than likely be fine.

[Ieldra]

Aesieru wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

As long as there isn't one ending where the relays aren't destroyed, I'm not interested. If it comes at the price of Shepard's life, that's OK with me, but I want an ending where galactic civilization is preserved. Since I don't need to die to stop the Reapers, what else is there worth dying for?

You do realize that the relays are a trap and a prison?

The expansion of new technologies that we actually understand could easily rebuild galactic civilization. 

Civilization endures, it just takes time...

(1) The thing is, it is known how to build mass relays. Recall Aethyta in ME2? The problem is galactic civilization didn't bother with a deeper understanding that might have revealed the Reaper connection because the relays were so conveniently present. I gather after the Reaper War they wouldn't make that mistake again.

(2) I intended to avoid the Destroy ending exactly because I don't buy into that philosophy. The technology was a trap because it enabled the Reapers to harvest organics every 50k years. Now the Reaper are gone, the technology is just technology with no other purpose than to enable fast FTL.

(3) The Catalyst says "Releasing the energy of the Crucible will destroy the mass relays and MOST of the technology you rely on." How do you interpret that but a galactic stone age?

No, I won't put up with not having the option to preserve the relays. It may cost Shepard's life, and I may not even take it with my main Shepard if it exists, but without that option ME3's endings are 100% depressing.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 04 mars 2012 - 04:12 .

[General User]

Does Team Shepard "get stranded" on a planet in or around the Serpent Nebula (the Citadel's local cluster)?

[Aesieru]

GBGriffin wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

That ending would make me think BioWare's writers were dumb.

This ending, Guardian included, makes you think they aren't? Really?

Griffin, the majority of your posts have given me a clear impression you speak without thinking / type without thinking, and don't really understand the plot or subplots or subtle plots that ME and the book series for ME have made clear.

In any case, yes, one with real sacrifice and the prison being destroyed is a lot better than some happy-dappy ending with really no sacrifice outside of a few people dying.

The Guardian makes sense, though you may or may not like the voice, and the destruction of the relays makes sense. Without context I can't comment on what happens to the Normandy because we only see images and audio we don't actually see the in-game renderings that go along with it or the reason for it.

[GBGriffin]

Aesieru wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

That ending would make me think BioWare's writers were dumb.

This ending, Guardian included, makes you think they aren't? Really?

Griffin, the majority of your posts have given me a clear impression you speak without thinking / type without thinking, and don't really understand the plot or subplots or subtle plots that ME and the book series for ME have made clear.

In any case, yes, one with real sacrifice and the prison being destroyed is a lot better than some happy-dappy ending with really no sacrifice outside of a few people dying.

The Guardian makes sense, though you may or may not like the voice, and the destruction of the relays makes sense. Without context I can't comment on what happens to the Normandy because we only see images and audio we don't actually see the in-game renderings that go along with it or the reason for it.

Oh, okay then.

[Mathias]

First off don't just start talking about modding a new ending. Modding can be a lot of hard work, especially if it's something as big as a new ending, which is possible i might add. But don't just say things just to say it. Until you have the skills needed to do this, or find someone else who can, you shouldn't even bring it up.

[brainless78]

Vaenier wrote...

mireisen wrote...

brainless78 wrote...

Meh, you can always imagine that they are not "stranded" as in "totally out of reach", but just something like 6 months of FTL away. That's the time it took the reapers to arrive after ME2, and they were in Dark Space, so why not.

Thanks for posting this, because it makes me feel less upset about the possible ending. I'd hate for the crew to get stranded just to die a slow death of starvation.

They do reguardless. There is still the epilogue scene where they have a kid who has been there for several years already. They wont have enough food for Tali and Garrus.

Atleast you can avoid inbreeding... [except that kid is already deformed ]

Actually, that's considering the epilogue is happening on the same planet they are "stranded" on, and on a visual point of view, they absolutely *don't* look alike, which would be the case if BW wanted to suggest that they went on to make a happy inbreeding colony. I think most people are overreacting, you can always imagine a reunion if your Shepard did survive. It's just that with the relay network gone, there are indeed going to be colonies completely cut off from everyone else because they are impractically far away, but that planet they are "stranded" on is not even a full relay jump away from Sol, and as i said the reapers went from Dark Space to the galaxy using only "slow" FTL in 6 months, and from the looks of it the distance equivalent was a LOT MORE than a single relay jump.

Point being, in my headcanon, they get rescued a few weeks later. Happy reunion. Happily ever after on earth. Fin. And it doesn't even contradict with what we know of the terrible endings.

[Vaenier]

Aesieru wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

As long as there isn't one ending where the relays aren't destroyed, I'm not interested. If it comes at the price of Shepard's life, that's OK with me, but I want an ending where galactic civilization is preserved. Since I don't need to die to stop the Reapers, what else is there worth dying for?

You do realize that the relays are a trap and a prison?

The expansion of new technologies that we actually understand could easily rebuild galactic civilization. 

Civilization endures, it just takes time... 

Why cant we also research alternate methods while keeping them? The military implications of non relay dependant travel would ensure funding. Why doom billions to starvation by cutting off their trade for food? Why cripple colonies without spare parts for their air scrubbers? You would send the galaxy into a crippling recession, kill billions, just because you dont yet understand something?

While undoubtedly some races such as the Quarian fleet would logically be damaged in some form, and other larger colonies or worlds might have difficulties if they didn't have their own farming methods and relied on space transport for them instead... the fact remains that FTL travel still exists, you can send ships to places, and relatively quickly they would of set up a form of communication in some capacity. The primary Capital worlds would more than likely be fine.

Capital worlds would be the worst off actually. It would be like isolating New York City. They have grown to rely on imports from colonies in order to use more land for cities.
And from what I heard, which very well can be wrong, the pulse destroys most technology you came to rely on. All FTL travel was based off the reapers and would be destroyed. Again, I could very well be wrong there and it is infact only the relays that get destroyed. In which case the death toll would be much less, but still present. But how it affects Geth and EDI make me inclined to believe to is infact all Reaper tech. We shall see.

[Dean_the_Young]

Johnny_Cheung wrote...

anyway, it left too much speculation, and the thing could be terrible....even i could imagine that kind of ending, the grim atmosphere (as hinted in soundtrack) would make things groom among the fans.

The grim atmosphere has been created by the fans.

Bioware gave you an open-ended scenario to make out of it whatever you wanted. The only definite information was (a) the relays are broke and galactic socieity isolated by slower FTL, and ( Shepard's own survival and/or death.

That's it. Everything else is up to you. Just like with how you imagine your Shepard feels about people, or what your Shepard's past was, or everything about 'your' Shepard that made him or her distinct from everyone else.


If you want to believe that the crew is doomed to die, that's your perogative. But it is also your choice, not something forced on you. Bioware didn't write an ending in which the crew is doomed beyond hope, it created one where people could project their own preferences: people who like it bitter could imagine the crew doomed as a cost of saving the galaxy, while people who like it sweet have the option to project a better outcome.


Frankly I'm amazed that people don't imagine a happy ending for themselves. It's like they have to be spoon-fed, despite the clamor for being an RPG in the first place. RPGs require player participation as well.

[Aesieru]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

As long as there isn't one ending where the relays aren't destroyed, I'm not interested. If it comes at the price of Shepard's life, that's OK with me, but I want an ending where galactic civilization is preserved. Since I don't need to die to stop the Reapers, what else is there worth dying for?

You do realize that the relays are a trap and a prison?

The expansion of new technologies that we actually understand could easily rebuild galactic civilization. 

Civilization endures, it just takes time...

(1) The thing is, it is known how to build mass relays. Recall Aethyta in ME2? The problem is galactic civilization didn't bother with a deeper understanding that might have revealed the Reaper connection because the relays were so conveniently present. I gather after the Reaper War they wouldn't make that mistake again.

(2) I intended to avoid the Destroy ending exactly because I don't buy into that philosophy. The technology was a trap because it enabled the Reapers to harvest organics every 50k years. Now the Reaper are gone, the technology is just technology with no other purpose than to enable fast FTL.

(3) The Catalyst says "Releasing the energy of the Crucible will destroy the mass relays and MOST of the technology you rely on." How do you interpret that but a galactic stone age?

(1) The thing is, it is known how to build mass relays. Recall Aethyta in ME2? The problem is galactic civilization didn't bother with a deeper understanding that might have revealed the Reaper connection because the relays were so conveniently present. I gather after the Reaper War they wouldn't make that mistake again. 

Actually, the relays are molecularly shielded and can't be damaged by any types of energies outside of cataclysmic kinetic energy impacts. The fact that they needed to START building their own relays doesn't mean they knew how, it could logically also mean they needed to start down the path of technology regarding learning about them. It's possible she was laughed out because they don't know how to study the molecularly shielded relays and so it was a ridiculous notion instead of trying. That's why determining their age was so difficult, because they couldn't even mine a tiny piece of each of them. This is explained in detail in the codex.

----

(2) I intended to avoid the Destroy ending exactly because I don't buy into that philosophy. The technology was a trap because it enabled the Reapers to harvest organics every 50k years. Now the Reaper are gone, the technology is just technology with no other purpose than to enable fast FTL. 

The technology still makes it so that with a means of beyond FTL travel, there is no purpose to expand past that, people get stagnant and technology begins to still maintaint itself in the path the Reapers intended so as to prevent anything out of the norm or anything the Reapers couldn't potentially counter from occuring. That's why alien races, despite their alien mindsets and mentalities, are all using the same technology. While the Reapers may or may not be destroyed, the Relays themselves are a more permanent prison. We've seen this in history many times, without means or a war to inspire others, there is really no reason to think that far outside the box or prepare for new technologies.

---

(3) The Catalyst says "Releasing the energy of the Crucible will destroy the mass relays and MOST of the technology you rely on." How do you interpret that but a galactic stone age? 

We rely on things built upon the technology of the Mass Relay, this does not mean Element Zero-based technologies are destroyed, only things that seem to rely on a high concentration of Dark Energy, not particularly the manipulation of it, but the use of it, which the relays do. Also, the relays themselves may have many other things that relate to them. Basically Reaper Technology was destroyed, and since EDI had Reaper Technology, the Geth outfit themselves with Reaper Technology, and the Reapers use Reaper technology, anything also based on Reaper technology (potentially the Thanix guns, though potentially not depending on how much of it really was based on AI technology of that type) was destroyed. The Relays are particularly a major reliance and so the majority of our reliance was indeed destroyed.

[Aesieru]

Vaenier wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

As long as there isn't one ending where the relays aren't destroyed, I'm not interested. If it comes at the price of Shepard's life, that's OK with me, but I want an ending where galactic civilization is preserved. Since I don't need to die to stop the Reapers, what else is there worth dying for?

You do realize that the relays are a trap and a prison?

The expansion of new technologies that we actually understand could easily rebuild galactic civilization. 

Civilization endures, it just takes time... 

Why cant we also research alternate methods while keeping them? The military implications of non relay dependant travel would ensure funding. Why doom billions to starvation by cutting off their trade for food? Why cripple colonies without spare parts for their air scrubbers? You would send the galaxy into a crippling recession, kill billions, just because you dont yet understand something?

While undoubtedly some races such as the Quarian fleet would logically be damaged in some form, and other larger colonies or worlds might have difficulties if they didn't have their own farming methods and relied on space transport for them instead... the fact remains that FTL travel still exists, you can send ships to places, and relatively quickly they would of set up a form of communication in some capacity. The primary Capital worlds would more than likely be fine.

Capital worlds would be the worst off actually. It would be like isolating New York City. They have grown to rely on imports from colonies in order to use more land for cities.
And from what I heard, which very well can be wrong, the pulse destroys most technology you came to rely on. All FTL travel was based off the reapers and would be destroyed. Again, I could very well be wrong there and it is infact only the relays that get destroyed. In which case the death toll would be much less, but still present. But how it affects Geth and EDI make me inclined to believe to is infact all Reaper tech. We shall see.

I don't think that's true, Ilium obviously would have difficulties though it is potentially near some Terminus systems that have them.

Places like the Salarian, Asari, and Turian homeworlds I don't think would have not had self-preservation manners there. It's only worlds that were more tech based rather than based on the full-circle of civilization.

---

In ME3, and (in ME2) we learn that EDI was built upon Reaper protocols, programming, attack programs, and then the actual IFF implementation as well. She is a Reaper-hybrid based program. We also learn in ME3 based on spoilers, that the Geth implement themselves with Reaper Technology in an attempt to become more independently sentient, of course, they try to do this on their own terms rather than other terms. I'm not sure why particularly they choose that measure rather than their Dyson Sphere, but still.

Modifié par Aesieru, 04 mars 2012 - 04:19 .

[TheWerdna]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

First off don't just start talking about modding a new ending. Modding can be a lot of hard work, especially if it's something as big as a new ending, which is possible i might add. But don't just say things just to say it. Until you have the skills needed to do this, or find someone else who can, you shouldn't even bring it up.

As I said, there is already a group forming to try and mod the game. It is in a early planning stage, as we are waiting to do anything untill the actual game launches and we gather people of the needed skills to get a proper mod made.

[shin-zan]

Comming up with a better ending is the easy part, the OP is about actually modding them in, which would take considerably more effort I imagine.

No real idea how feasible it would be but here's my guess... Since the cutscenes are just bik movies, one should be able to edit or replace them I imagine. Removing the part where the relays blow up should be quite easy, you could just delete the bit where the Normandy crashes etc... but that would just leave you with no ending instead. You'd need to animate or at least edit the movies as well. If you want ending cutscenes that reflect choices and decisions  beyond what the game does you'd need to change the actuall game code, so making a scene where Shepard marries his LI for example is out of the question imho.

Would love something like this but I think it's easier to just ignore the endings and imagine your own.

[Aesieru]

Prince_Valiant wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

This game is a SPACE OPERA, do you know what happens at the end of an opera?

EVERYONE DIES.

This isn't true, neither if you write it in capitals. Not even Wagner wrote only operas with such tragic ends. There are a lot of operas with a lighhearted ending. Btw. space opera isn't the same as a music opera. Do you know the most succesful space opera in history? Do you know Star Wars? Who's dying there? No one dies in Return of the Jedi but Darth Vader and the Emperor, and it's still a fantastic finale and much better than this crap Bioware offers us.

Who dies in Star Wars? Vader, the Emperor, millions of Imperial Soldiers, Civilians, and Officers who were just doing their job, Ewoks, lots of Rebel Soldiers, Officers, and Civilians, the entire planet of Alderaan, tons of ships.

---

Also, in the 160 books before, after, and during the Star Wars trilogy and prequel trilogy... tons of other people die.

During the Yuuzhan Vong, billions died.

Modifié par Aesieru, 04 mars 2012 - 04:26 .

[Vaenier]

Aesieru wrote...

In ME3, and (in ME2) we learn that EDI was built upon Reaper protocols, programming, attack programs, and then the actual IFF implementation as well. She is a Reaper-hybrid based program. We also learn in ME3 based on spoilers, that the Geth implement themselves with Reaper Technology in an attempt to become more independently sentient, of course, they try to do this on their own terms rather than other terms. I'm not sure why particularly they choose that measure rather than their Dyson Sphere, but still.

Interesting, thank you for the information. It does seem out of character for them though.
Also Geth are just programs, so their upgrades were just programming code. So the pulse destroys all Reaper programming code like a virus. That should leave most technology left alone, it was built on the physics of reaper tech, not the programming of it.

[Aesieru]

Vaenier wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

In ME3, and (in ME2) we learn that EDI was built upon Reaper protocols, programming, attack programs, and then the actual IFF implementation as well. She is a Reaper-hybrid based program. We also learn in ME3 based on spoilers, that the Geth implement themselves with Reaper Technology in an attempt to become more independently sentient, of course, they try to do this on their own terms rather than other terms. I'm not sure why particularly they choose that measure rather than their Dyson Sphere, but still.

Interesting, thank you for the information. It does seem out of character for them though.
Also Geth are just programs, so their upgrades were just programming code. So the pulse destroys all Reaper programming code like a virus. That should leave most technology left alone, it was built on the physics of reaper tech, not the programming of it.

It's potentially possible that the Relays also use reaper programming codes, and that anything using a particular trigger or part of the Reaper code was detonated.

[Johnny_Cheung]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Johnny_Cheung wrote...

anyway, it left too much speculation, and the thing could be terrible....even i could imagine that kind of ending, the grim atmosphere (as hinted in soundtrack) would make things groom among the fans.

The grim atmosphere has been created by the fans.

Bioware gave you an open-ended scenario to make out of it whatever you wanted. The only definite information was (a) the relays are broke and galactic socieity isolated by slower FTL, and ( Shepard's own survival and/or death.

That's it. Everything else is up to you. Just like with how you imagine your Shepard feels about people, or what your Shepard's past was, or everything about 'your' Shepard that made him or her distinct from everyone else.


If you want to believe that the crew is doomed to die, that's your perogative. But it is also your choice, not something forced on you. Bioware didn't write an ending in which the crew is doomed beyond hope, it created one where people could project their own preferences: people who like it bitter could imagine the crew doomed as a cost of saving the galaxy, while people who like it sweet have the option to project a better outcome.


Frankly I'm amazed that people don't imagine a happy ending for themselves. It's like they have to be spoon-fed, despite the clamor for being an RPG in the first place. RPGs require player participation as well.

for my own opinion, the ending could be conceived as hopeful _ Earth is saved, and also host with the aliens helped with the war, and as long as people still able to manipulate the eezo and FTL, civilization could still be rebuilt - in decades or centuries (the longitivity of asari and krogan don't give a damn to such, while the other had only to pay for a few generations) - the ME2 Illium bartender had hinted. 

however, come on, the anger of the fanbase is not only from that, is the way of marketing - with great expectation provided, but is "doomed", or at least subverted at the end....

[Johnny_Cheung]

Aesieru wrote...

Prince_Valiant wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

This game is a SPACE OPERA, do you know what happens at the end of an opera?

EVERYONE DIES.

This isn't true, neither if you write it in capitals. Not even Wagner wrote only operas with such tragic ends. There are a lot of operas with a lighhearted ending. Btw. space opera isn't the same as a music opera. Do you know the most succesful space opera in history? Do you know Star Wars? Who's dying there? No one dies in Return of the Jedi but Darth Vader and the Emperor, and it's still a fantastic finale and much better than this crap Bioware offers us.

Who dies in Star Wars? Vader, the Emperor, millions of Imperial Soldiers, Civilians, and Officers who were just doing their job, Ewoks, lots of Rebel Soldiers, Officers, and Civilians, the entire planet of Alderaan, tons of ships.

---

Also, in the 160 books before, after, and during the Star Wars trilogy and prequel trilogy... tons of other people die.

During the Yuuzhan Vong, billions died.

that is also the theme of star wars legacy comic - where one sith is defeated, while left the galaxy into a ****storm still...

[Aesieru]

Johnny_Cheung wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Prince_Valiant wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

This game is a SPACE OPERA, do you know what happens at the end of an opera?

EVERYONE DIES.

This isn't true, neither if you write it in capitals. Not even Wagner wrote only operas with such tragic ends. There are a lot of operas with a lighhearted ending. Btw. space opera isn't the same as a music opera. Do you know the most succesful space opera in history? Do you know Star Wars? Who's dying there? No one dies in Return of the Jedi but Darth Vader and the Emperor, and it's still a fantastic finale and much better than this crap Bioware offers us.

Who dies in Star Wars? Vader, the Emperor, millions of Imperial Soldiers, Civilians, and Officers who were just doing their job, Ewoks, lots of Rebel Soldiers, Officers, and Civilians, the entire planet of Alderaan, tons of ships.

---

Also, in the 160 books before, after, and during the Star Wars trilogy and prequel trilogy... tons of other people die.

During the Yuuzhan Vong, billions died.

that is also the theme of star wars legacy comic - where one sith is defeated, while left the galaxy into a ****storm still...

I like to think Legacy never happened.

[Aesieru]

Prince_Valiant wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Who dies in Star Wars? Vader, the Emperor, millions of Imperial Soldiers, Civilians, and Officers who were just doing their job, Ewoks, lots of Rebel Soldiers, Officers, and Civilians, the entire planet of Alderaan, tons of ships.

First, I'm not interested in the EU (except the Zahn trilogy), so I can't speak of it. You're partly right, but for me it makes the very difference who's dying: Your enumerations means the faceless ones, not the heros, not the characters I share the thrill with. The father-son-drama between Luke and Vader is great, and Lucas let me cry for the villain (!), but the give a comforting ending sequence with all the protagonists, Luke, Han, Leia, Lando and the freed people of the many planets. It's a little bittersweet with the appearing of the ghosts of Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin, but it's still lighhearted and very, very satisfying for me.

I wish not to take off YOUR ending, I grant it to you, but I wish an option to get MY ending too,

I am all for an ending you agree with, provided it at makes certain to take into account the fact that the Relays were a trap and will be as long as we don't actually understand anything about their technology (we have very very very primitive com systems built off the relays but that's only because they use the relay to make it work). It may be misunderstood that I am not nay or yay for the endings, I simply understand them and they provide a good debate opportunity against the many people arguing without context or without understanding of the plot that has been blatantly there and apparent for many years since the series was released and then expanded upon through books, comics, and of course the games.

I am not against a positive ending, but I am against any ending that does not rationally deal with the ramifications of the relays, their technology, the Reapers, and the trap. I would be all for Shephard surviving, some how, but I am not for him surviving "just because", nor am I for the galaxy getting away with taking out the Reapers without a major sacrifice, and a few Human lives or a crew or the player character and friends is not something even similar to "a major sacrifice".

[Dean_the_Young]

Johnny_Cheung wrote...

however, come on, the anger of the fanbase is not only from that, is the way of marketing - with great expectation provided, but is "doomed", or at least subverted at the end....

Except the companions aren't doomed. Neither is Shepard, if Shepard lives.

The only people doomed are those who die during the game. Which, by and large, are a direct result of Shepard's actions. The ultimate fate of everyone else, and every thing else, is up to the player.

[Ieldra]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Frankly I'm amazed that people don't imagine a happy ending for themselves. It's like they have to be spoon-fed, despite the clamor for being an RPG in the first place. RPGs require player participation as well.

Oh, we do. Most certainly. I still think that giving us hopeful conversations with LIs like the one with Garrus and then making an ending that heavily suggests - since you're right, it doesn't say so definitely - that they'll never see each other again even if you get the supposedly "best" ending is cruel. Because you see, collective perception has weight, and this heavily suggested interpretation is an indication that that interpretation is what Bioware's intended. Headcanon is easy, but to know the writers are deliberately trying to sabotage a less grim scenario with their writing - how else can I interpret the ending scenario - is enraging.

Also I would be able to follow them there if the scenario wasn't so utterly contrived.