377 réponses à ce sujet

[floppypig16]

I don't know the endings. But the reason I think you can't have both a fairy tale ending and a "shade of grey" or sad ending is because having both undermines their integrity.

Some people want sunshine and rainbows. Some don't. However, if you made both available then the people that got the "shade of grey" realistic ending can't actually enjoy their ending because they know that if they had played better, they would have got the perfect happy ending.

This undermines their ending. Because the reason these people want this realistic ending is because they believe the Reapers should not be defeated so easily... you shouldn't be able to walk away from this battle without major destruction. So, you see, giving everyone the ending they want, and making the sunshine and rainbows ending available actually undermines and makes the realistic ending just seem like you failed.

Bioware couldn't give you both, they had to choose one. In my opinion, they made the correct, logical choice.

[uponablackstar]

floppypig16 wrote...

I don't know the endings. But the reason I think you can't have both a fairy tale ending and a "shade of grey" or sad ending is because having both undermines their integrity.

Some people want sunshine and rainbows. Some don't. However, if you made both available then the people that got the "shade of grey" realistic ending can't actually enjoy their ending because they know that if they had played better, they would have got the perfect happy ending.

This undermines their ending. Because the reason these people want this realistic ending is because they believe the Reapers should not be defeated so easily... you shouldn't be able to walk away from this battle without major destruction. So, you see, giving everyone the ending they want, and making the sunshine and rainbows ending available actually undermines and makes the realistic ending just seem like you failed.

Bioware couldn't give you both, they had to choose one. In my opinion, they made the correct, logical choice.

And to feed off of your point, we need to think back to the suicide mission from ME2. It was a pretty lofty name for a final mission, for the obligatory allusion to some or all characters not making it back alive. When we, as players, found strategies to keep EVERYONE alive, think about how it tampered with the entire premise of that mission. While it was great to have the choice to keep everyone alive, it mildly affected the finality of that mission -- some would argue that it completely cheapened it. A suicide mission that everyone survives.

I like the fact that ME3, through what I've heard of its endings, adds weight to the Reaper conflict by incorporating those unavoidable moments to the fray. Things will happen, people will die, and it might not happen because of a gamey dialogue option on a wheel. Doing it this way will add a sense of realism to the story; which yes, could lead to some grey endings. I don't love the notion of losing someone I liked, but I understand it when I'm looking at the bigger picture of the story.

[floppypig16]

uponablackstar wrote...

floppypig16 wrote...

I don't know the endings. But the reason I think you can't have both a fairy tale ending and a "shade of grey" or sad ending is because having both undermines their integrity.

Some people want sunshine and rainbows. Some don't. However, if you made both available then the people that got the "shade of grey" realistic ending can't actually enjoy their ending because they know that if they had played better, they would have got the perfect happy ending.

This undermines their ending. Because the reason these people want this realistic ending is because they believe the Reapers should not be defeated so easily... you shouldn't be able to walk away from this battle without major destruction. So, you see, giving everyone the ending they want, and making the sunshine and rainbows ending available actually undermines and makes the realistic ending just seem like you failed.

Bioware couldn't give you both, they had to choose one. In my opinion, they made the correct, logical choice.

And to feed off of your point, we need to think back to the suicide mission from ME2. It was a pretty lofty name for a final mission, for the obligatory allusion to some or all characters not making it back alive. When we, as players, found strategies to keep EVERYONE alive, think about how it tampered with the entire premise of that mission. While it was great to have the choice to keep everyone alive, it mildly affected the finality of that mission -- some would argue that it completely cheapened it. A suicide mission that everyone survives.

I like the fact that ME3, through what I've heard of its endings, adds weight to the Reaper conflict by incorporating those unavoidable moments to the fray. Things will happen, people will die, and it might not happen because of a gamey dialogue option on a wheel. Doing it this way will add a sense of realism to the story; which yes, could lead to some grey endings. I don't love the notion of losing someone I liked, but I understand it when I'm looking at the bigger picture of the story.

Exactly. When I first did the suicide mission, I lost all the support crew (except for Chakwas) as well as Mordin. Yeah, I was sad, cose Mordin was the ****, but it was a great ending because of it. In a subsequent playthru with the same character, I saved everyone, and it completely cheapened the mission and even somewhat ruined the ending for me. 

You can call it cliche, or unoriginal, but at the end of the day, characters you care about simply have to die. If there was any fairy tale ending avaliable it would completely undermine what the Reapers have stood for the entire trilogy. 

[Acidrain92]

uponablackstar wrote...

floppypig16 wrote...

I don't know the endings. But the reason I think you can't have both a fairy tale ending and a "shade of grey" or sad ending is because having both undermines their integrity.

Some people want sunshine and rainbows. Some don't. However, if you made both available then the people that got the "shade of grey" realistic ending can't actually enjoy their ending because they know that if they had played better, they would have got the perfect happy ending.

This undermines their ending. Because the reason these people want this realistic ending is because they believe the Reapers should not be defeated so easily... you shouldn't be able to walk away from this battle without major destruction. So, you see, giving everyone the ending they want, and making the sunshine and rainbows ending available actually undermines and makes the realistic ending just seem like you failed.

Bioware couldn't give you both, they had to choose one. In my opinion, they made the correct, logical choice.

And to feed off of your point, we need to think back to the suicide mission from ME2. It was a pretty lofty name for a final mission, for the obligatory allusion to some or all characters not making it back alive. When we, as players, found strategies to keep EVERYONE alive, think about how it tampered with the entire premise of that mission. While it was great to have the choice to keep everyone alive, it mildly affected the finality of that mission -- some would argue that it completely cheapened it. A suicide mission that everyone survives.

I like the fact that ME3, through what I've heard of its endings, adds weight to the Reaper conflict by incorporating those unavoidable moments to the fray. Things will happen, people will die, and it might not happen because of a gamey dialogue option on a wheel. Doing it this way will add a sense of realism to the story; which yes, could lead to some grey endings. I don't love the notion of losing someone I liked, but I understand it when I'm looking at the bigger picture of the story.

I like what you are saying, but the idea of any of my favorite characters dying for good really scares me...and thats saying a lot about how developed they are.

still, I'd much rather be disappointed by the ending of a game I am playing rather than reading the script and being all pissed off, ruining the journey to the end in ME3.

Modifié par Acidrain92, 05 mars 2012 - 04:33 .

[KRAETZNER]

Then what's the point of even trying if nothing matters. Also I don't see how ignoring the part of the community that wants their actions to matter just so that the people who fail at saving the galaxy feel special about themselves is the right decision. If you don't make the right decisions you should fail, if you make the right ones you should have atleast better odds of succeding. I dont want some damn disney ending, I want an ending where atleast some of my crew and I are alive. Have the rest of the galaxy burn for all I care.
All I'm saying is that if they atleast had included the option and made it insanely difficult to achieve it would in my opinion appease most of the players. The reapers arn't gods they're just advanced ships that turn into confetti when you shoot them enough like everything else. I can understand where your coming from, but I think there should atleast be a option, or perhaps a random chance where the ending can be atleast partially optimistic.

Modifié par KRAETZNER, 05 mars 2012 - 04:34 .

[Lapis Lazuli]

I spent a lot of time on this forum about a year ago and read dozens upon dozens of theories about reapers, etc. To my knowledge nobody came up with anything that could preserve the extreme gravitas of reapers (established in ME1) and at the same time make them beatable (a necessary evil of story-telling). I don't think the brainstormers over at bioware could be any more successful than the hundreds of theorists on this forum.

[floppypig16]

KRAETZNER wrote...

Then what's the point of even trying if nothing matters. Also I don't see how ignoring the part of the community that wants their actions to matter just so that the people who fail at saving the galaxy feel special about themselves is the right decision. If you don't make the right decisions you should fail, if you make the right ones you should have atleast better odds of succeding. I dont want some damn disney ending, I want an ending where atleast some of my crew and I are alive. Have the rest of the galaxy burn for all I care.
All I'm saying is that if they atleast had included the option and made it insaley difficult to achieve it would in my opinion appease most of the players. The reapers arn't gods they're just advanced ships that turn into confetti when you shoot them enough like everything else. I can understand where your coming from, but I think there should atleast be a option, or perhaps a random chance where the ending can be atleast partially optimistic.

Agreed. I'm not saying absolutely everyone has to die or anything. Again, I don't know what the endings are. I'm only arguing that their shouldn't be a fairy-tale ending- which you seem to agree with. 

[JonathonPR]

The endings are on the low end of entertaining scifi. The potential was there in the first game but it has felt like they were unwilling or unable to use more heavy scifi concepts that make great stories and unique action and decided to play it safe with a more action movie scifi.

I was hoping for a combination of The Last Question and Childhood's End. I have moved beyond my hate of the thermal clips and lament the lost potential to create something amazing that would be active in the scifi community forty years later.

[farlander28]

Tesclo wrote...

I think the endings are right. I have no problem with them. I think the issue people are having is there really isn't an option to have a 'perfect' happy ending... but in reality, there really shouldn't be. The game isn't based on the idea that Shepard walks away into the sunset. It's made very clear that this is the end of Mass Effect. I think it was the right direction to go in. The endings are solid and intentional.

Except that ME2 totally flies in the face of this reasoning. If Bioware didn't want people to expect a "best" possible ending, then they shouldn't have made it possible to save absolutely EVERYONE on the Normandy at the end of ME2.

Hell, it wasn't even HARD to get a "perfect" ending in ME2 - loyalty missions, research upgrades, choose blatantly obvious specialist roles - BOOM, you're done.

Contradictions like this are not how you tell a proper story.

[floppypig16]

farlander28 wrote...

Tesclo wrote...

I think the endings are right. I have no problem with them. I think the issue people are having is there really isn't an option to have a 'perfect' happy ending... but in reality, there really shouldn't be. The game isn't based on the idea that Shepard walks away into the sunset. It's made very clear that this is the end of Mass Effect. I think it was the right direction to go in. The endings are solid and intentional.

Except that ME2 totally flies in the face of this reasoning. If Bioware didn't want people to expect a "best" possible ending, then they shouldn't have made it possible to save absolutely EVERYONE on the Normandy at the end of ME2.

Hell, it wasn't even HARD to get a "perfect" ending in ME2 - loyalty missions, research upgrades, choose blatantly obvious specialist roles - BOOM, you're done.

Contradictions like this are not how you tell a proper story.

Guess they're learning from their mistakes  

[KRAETZNER]

floppypig16 wrote...

KRAETZNER wrote...

Then what's the point of even trying if nothing matters. Also I don't see how ignoring the part of the community that wants their actions to matter just so that the people who fail at saving the galaxy feel special about themselves is the right decision. If you don't make the right decisions you should fail, if you make the right ones you should have atleast better odds of succeding. I dont want some damn disney ending, I want an ending where atleast some of my crew and I are alive. Have the rest of the galaxy burn for all I care.
All I'm saying is that if they atleast had included the option and made it insaley difficult to achieve it would in my opinion appease most of the players. The reapers arn't gods they're just advanced ships that turn into confetti when you shoot them enough like everything else. I can understand where your coming from, but I think there should atleast be a option, or perhaps a random chance where the ending can be atleast partially optimistic.

Agreed. I'm not saying absolutely everyone has to die or anything. Again, I don't know what the endings are. I'm only arguing that their shouldn't be a fairy-tale ending- which you seem to agree with. 

Yes, I don't expect to go frolicking with the council as the last reaper falls.

[KRAETZNER]

Also being able to play after the credits would have been a great oppurtunity. See the destruction and consequences of the war first hand with whats left of your crew. Visit the wasteland of earth, see the remains of the citadel. Seeing one kid die in the beginning is sad, but seeing all the death after the war more so. I've heard this feature isn't in the game and I'm not complaining that it isn't. It would be an oppurtunity however to see the darker side of the story. Perhaps they could do this in Dlc like the Fallout: Broken Steel.

[Soundsystem]

KRAETZNER wrote...

floppypig16 wrote...

KRAETZNER wrote...

Then what's the point of even trying if nothing matters. Also I don't see how ignoring the part of the community that wants their actions to matter just so that the people who fail at saving the galaxy feel special about themselves is the right decision. If you don't make the right decisions you should fail, if you make the right ones you should have atleast better odds of succeding. I dont want some damn disney ending, I want an ending where atleast some of my crew and I are alive. Have the rest of the galaxy burn for all I care.
All I'm saying is that if they atleast had included the option and made it insaley difficult to achieve it would in my opinion appease most of the players. The reapers arn't gods they're just advanced ships that turn into confetti when you shoot them enough like everything else. I can understand where your coming from, but I think there should atleast be a option, or perhaps a random chance where the ending can be atleast partially optimistic.

Agreed. I'm not saying absolutely everyone has to die or anything. Again, I don't know what the endings are. I'm only arguing that their shouldn't be a fairy-tale ending- which you seem to agree with. 

Yes, I don't expect to go frolicking with the council as the last reaper falls.

I have yet to see anyone on these forums argue for a fairy tale ending. But considering that both ME1 and ME2 made it possible to have, what I would consider to be, happy endings. In the Suicide mission you could save everyone if you picked right and got all upgrades. In the Battle of the Citadel you could pick which group suffered heavy losses. I fail to see how it is unreasonable or cheapens anyones endings to expect this in the final game.

[Lapis Lazuli]

The only thing that would make it better is if what's his face (Velarn?) still doesn't believe in reapers.

[JenMaxon]

floppypig16 wrote...

I don't know the endings. But the reason I think you can't have both a fairy tale ending and a "shade of grey" or sad ending is because having both undermines their integrity. 

That's your argument?  If that's the case why didn't they just write a book or make a film?  The whole point of the marketing of the game is that it's supposed to be a story with multiple possible threads.  Now you might argue that that's not what has happened (as some are) but if the design brief is that there are multiple possible routes through the story, you can't seriously make the argument that one route invalidates another.

Modifié par JenMaxon, 05 mars 2012 - 05:57 .

[schythe1]

Tesclo wrote...

I think the endings are right. I have no problem with them. I think the issue people are having is there really isn't an option to have a 'perfect' happy ending... but in reality, there really shouldn't be. The game isn't based on the idea that Shepard walks away into the sunset. It's made very clear that this is the end of Mass Effect. I think it was the right direction to go in. The endings are solid and intentional.

So you are cool with the following trail of logic.  

Organics will create synthetics that will kill the organics so to prevent this we created synthetics to kill the organics before they can create synthetics that will kill them.

[crawfs]

My opinion on the people who read the leaked script, ruined the game for themselves then called it crap:



If you really cared about Mass effect 3 and you were ever excited about playing it you wouldn't have read that script, it simply does not make sense. Why id you read the script? honestly

Edit: oh and OP take everything the people have said about the endings/story line essentialy for a pile of dung I'm not making any opinion of the game until I've played it.

Modifié par crawfs, 05 mars 2012 - 06:01 .

[AlanC9]

floppypig16 wrote...

Exactly. When I first did the suicide mission, I lost all the support crew (except for Chakwas) as well as Mordin. Yeah, I was sad, cose Mordin was the ****, but it was a great ending because of it. In a subsequent playthru with the same character, I saved everyone, and it completely cheapened the mission and even somewhat ruined the ending for me. 

You can call it cliche, or unoriginal, but at the end of the day, characters you care about simply have to die. If there was any fairy tale ending avaliable it would completely undermine what the Reapers have stood for the entire trilogy. 

This, pretty much. My ME2 playthrough where everybody lived was the worst ending I had. Worst possible, I think -- never actually managed to get Shepard killed, but that would be better than the one where everybody lived.

[Sentr0]

AlanC9 wrote...

floppypig16 wrote...

Exactly. When I first did the suicide mission, I lost all the support crew (except for Chakwas) as well as Mordin. Yeah, I was sad, cose Mordin was the ****, but it was a great ending because of it. In a subsequent playthru with the same character, I saved everyone, and it completely cheapened the mission and even somewhat ruined the ending for me. 

You can call it cliche, or unoriginal, but at the end of the day, characters you care about simply have to die. If there was any fairy tale ending avaliable it would completely undermine what the Reapers have stood for the entire trilogy. 

This, pretty much. My ME2 playthrough where everybody lived was the worst ending I had. Worst possible, I think -- never actually managed to get Shepard killed, but that would be better than the one where everybody lived.

You're ridiculous, if you wanted everyone dieing  all you had to do was keeping on main story and making poor choices on last missions. There are multiple endings for a reason, pretending that all endings all bad or good is just bullsh*t

[brunomalta]

So, people are rating the spoiled endings without seeing the whole game? right! Well..this is what i call dumb. Why the hell will you read the ending and not play the damm thing first?

[myd00m]

I just watched the video on youtube, that ending is atrocious, no wonder the original writer quit the company... poor guy probablly felt like someone took a dump on his dignity. sucks i cant cnacel preorder becuase u used an ea gift card to buy it

[AlanC9]

farlander28 wrote...
Except that ME2 totally flies in the face of this reasoning. If Bioware didn't want people to expect a "best" possible ending, then they shouldn't have made it possible to save absolutely EVERYONE on the Normandy at the end of ME2.

Hell, it wasn't even HARD to get a "perfect" ending in ME2 - loyalty missions, research upgrades, choose blatantly obvious specialist roles - BOOM, you're done.

Contradictions like this are not how you tell a proper story.

I agree that it was a mistake for ME2 to make a perfect ending available.

But since  ME2 was bad, ME3 should be bad too? You've lost me there.

[AlanC9]

Sentr0 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
This, pretty much. My ME2 playthrough where everybody lived was the worst ending I had. Worst possible, I think -- never actually managed to get Shepard killed, but that would be better than the one where everybody lived.

You're ridiculous, if you wanted everyone dieing  all you had to do was keeping on main story and making poor choices on last missions. There are multiple endings for a reason, pretending that all endings all bad or good is just bullsh*t

Sure, if I made bad decisions I could get a bad ending. But I don't want to RP a Shepard who makes bad decisions. And I found that the perfect endings weren't as interesting as the imperfect ones. So what I want is an ending where even perfect decisions don't give Shepard the ending that he would have wanted. An optimal ending for Shepard is not the optimal ending for AlanC9.

[Raging_Pulse]

 I don't usually post on forums so sorry for bashing in like this, but I've heard the rumors of bad endings. I mostly play RPG games for it's story and lore, so one of the most important reasons for me to even consider starting to play ME3 is to see all the important mysteries resolved.

So, question to anyone who already knows the endings: is it explained, without any uncertainty or perplexity -- who or what are the Reapers, where do they come from and most importantly, why are they performing the extinction cycles.

Just Yes or No, no spoilers, please. Thanks!

[Maro]

Oh wait, there are no rainbows and unicorns in this ending?  Oh snap!  I was going to go through this game with the expectation that there would be rainbows and unicorns at the end of this journey.  Guess I'll try not to expect the expected.