70 réponses à ce sujet

[OdanUrr]

Because even a fictional universe must abide by some laws, I'm curious as to how exactly mass relays work. See, I know they're built around an element zero core. According to the lore, eezo is a material than when subjected to an electrical current releases dark energy, which in turn can be manipulated to create a mass effect field. Any object within that field will experience an increase/decrease in mass.

I suppose mass relays must therefore create a field large enough to cover the distance to another relay, thus creating a mass-free corridor. This would effectively bypass gravitational issues and the eezo core aboard ships would effectively reduce their mass to zero.

My issue is with the interaction between a mass relay and a ship's core. What exactly happens here? Is there a transference of dark energy? If so, why? Is the mass relay engulfing the ship within its mass effect field?

There's also the issue of the direction of a mass effect field. If I'm reading this correctly, the mass effect field created by a relay is unidirectional, connecting only relay A with relay B, sort of like a highway. Still, even in a unidirectional mass effect field, what happens to the objects that are already on its path? Are they somehow bypassed or are the relays positioned so that this is not a factor?

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

[Adugan]

OdanUrr wrote...

Because even a fictional universe must abide by some laws, I'm curious as to how exactly mass relays work. See, I know they're built around an element zero core. According to the lore, eezo is a material than when subjected to an electrical current releases dark energy, which in turn can be manipulated to create a mass effect field. Any object within that field will experience an increase/decrease in mass.

I suppose mass relays must therefore create a field large enough to cover the distance to another relay, thus creating a mass-free corridor. This would effectively bypass gravitational issues and the eezo core aboard ships would effectively reduce their mass to zero.

My issue is with the interaction between a mass relay and a ship's core. What exactly happens here? Is there a transference of dark energy? If so, why? Is the mass relay engulfing the ship within its mass effect field?

There's also the issue of the direction of a mass effect field. If I'm reading this correctly, the mass effect field created by a relay is unidirectional, connecting only relay A with relay B, sort of like a highway. Still, even in a unidirectional mass effect field, what happens to the objects that are already on its path? Are they somehow bypassed or are the relays positioned so that this is not a factor?

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

SCIENCE

[DownClown]

To target some of your points...

Interaction between Mass Relay and Core: I think the ship's core is needed to create the electrical reaction with the massive amounts of eezo in a mass relay. So the inactive "field" that is naturally created in the presence of a mass relay doesn't do anything unless activated by a strong source of energy. The resulting "zeroing" effect, however, I have no idea.

Undirectional, and risk of hitting another object: There's always the risk of two ships colliding during a relay run, but considering the relays only put a ship in the general vicinity of another relay (which would be many, many miles), i think a collision would be unlikely.

Good thoughts and nice research man. I'm no physics major, so what I said might not make any sense lol

Modifié par DownClown, 05 mars 2012 - 12:14 .

[Arkitekt]

read the wiki.

[Adugan]

To explain more: Some things in the ME universe have to be overlooked for a better story. Mass relays dont really have an explanation, they are a plot deviceto enable what happens in it. FTL has to happen in some sci-fi to have humans meet alien cultures across the galaxy, so it doesnt take them millions of years to travel to them and destroy the timeline of the story.

Modifié par Adugan, 05 mars 2012 - 12:19 .

[OdanUrr]

DownClown wrote...

To target some of your points...

Interaction between Mass Relay and Core: I think the ship's core is needed to create the electrical reaction with the massive amounts of eezo in a mass relay. So the inactive "field" that is naturally created in the presence of a mass relay doesn't do anything unless activated by a strong source of energy. The resulting "zeroing" effect, however, I have no idea.

Undirectional, and risk of hitting another object: There's always the risk of two ships colliding during a relay run, but considering the relays only put a ship in the general vicinity of another relay (which would be many, many miles), i think a collision would be unlikely.

Good thoughts and nice research man. I'm no physics major, so what I said might not make any sense lol

Ah, you mean that discharge we see could actually be an electrical discharge of some kind needed to power the mass relay? Interesting.

Concerning the fields itself, I was really wondering what happened to stars or space debris that are in the path of the mass effect field once it's triggered by a ship.

[davidt0504]

The way I've interpreted it (as a physics undergrad ), essentially the mass relay creates intensely powerful mass effect corridors (kind of similar to wormholes but very different at the same time). These corridors will essentially cancel out the mass (even negate the mass) of any objects moving inside the field. Now according to EXTREMELY theoretical physics. There is such a way to negate the mass of an object and even make it go negative and by doing so the object could essentially travel faster than light. Now this would present several major problems in science such as causality blowing to bits lol but we're going to ignore that for the sake of science. Frankly, wormhole relays would have made more sense and caused less problems but I give bioware props for making truly unique science fiction.

[OdanUrr]

Arkitekt wrote...

read the wiki.

I have, but it's pretty generic stuff.

[Lapis Lazuli]

It's really just a derivation from free divergent vortex set theory

[DownClown]

OdanUrr wrote...

DownClown wrote...

To target some of your points...

Interaction between Mass Relay and Core: I think the ship's core is needed to create the electrical reaction with the massive amounts of eezo in a mass relay. So the inactive "field" that is naturally created in the presence of a mass relay doesn't do anything unless activated by a strong source of energy. The resulting "zeroing" effect, however, I have no idea.

Undirectional, and risk of hitting another object: There's always the risk of two ships colliding during a relay run, but considering the relays only put a ship in the general vicinity of another relay (which would be many, many miles), i think a collision would be unlikely.

Good thoughts and nice research man. I'm no physics major, so what I said might not make any sense lol

Ah, you mean that discharge we see could actually be an electrical discharge of some kind needed to power the mass relay? Interesting.

Concerning the fields itself, I was really wondering what happened to stars or space debris that are in the path of the mass effect field once it's triggered by a ship.

Ohhhh, okay I see what you mean. Hmm. I would assume space debris would be utterly destroyed on impact, with the ship making the jump being unaffected due to the incredible speed and kinetic shielding.

As for stars, it's safe to say the relays are positioned to avoid them. Nobody wants to fly into a star, unless you're the Destiny that is;)

Also, I think it would be kind of cool to see a Reaper ship destroyed from a ship exiting (or entering) a Mass Relay jump. A last ditch effort to kill it going at FTL speeds would look neat-o

Modifié par DownClown, 05 mars 2012 - 12:33 .

[DownClown]

Lapis Lazuli wrote...

It's really just a derivation from free divergent vortex set theory

I sincerely hope this doesn't exist.

[bwg888]

It's not so much a field around the relay as a straight corridor between two relays. Positively charging eezo makes things behave as if they have more mass, and negative = less. In this corridor, things behave as if they have almost 0 mass, so according to f = ma, or rather a = f/m, little force is required for great acceleration

[ItsFreakinJesus]

Slingshot.

[Adugan]

bwg888 wrote...

It's not so much a field around the relay as a straight corridor between two relays. Positively charging eezo makes things behave as if they have more mass, and negative = less. In this corridor, things behave as if they have almost 0 mass, so according to f = ma, or rather a = f/m, little force is required for great acceleration

Yes, but the relay cant make you travel across the galaxy in 1 second if it obeys the laws of physics. 

[bwg888]

Adugan wrote...

bwg888 wrote...

It's not so much a field around the relay as a straight corridor between two relays. Positively charging eezo makes things behave as if they have more mass, and negative = less. In this corridor, things behave as if they have almost 0 mass, so according to f = ma, or rather a = f/m, little force is required for great acceleration

Yes, but the relay cant make you travel across the galaxy in 1 second if it obeys the laws of physics. 

No, very true, it's a game and not real life. Light speed and Einstein and all that, it's impossible.......

OR SO WE THINK!!!!!!!11!1!!1

Modifié par bwg888, 05 mars 2012 - 12:42 .

[OdanUrr]

Cox303 wrote...

If you notice, everytime a ship enters a relay, the relay "latches" onto it with a bolt of electrified eezo. In my head I explain it like this. Mass Relays have the largest eezo cores in the galaxy. Even just a fraction of it has more dark energy than the largest core of the largest dreadnought. A standard core, or even the Normany's tantalus 2.0 core can't lower the mass to absolutely nothing. It's not powerful enough. What I think happens is that bolt of energy overcharges the ship's core and allows it to reduce the weight to nothing, then the relay takes over and propels the ship however many light years it needs to go.

As far as the direction of a relay, you're correct and incorrect. Primary relays are A to B, but that's because they have the largest range, hundreds and hundreds of light years. Secondary relays are linked to every relay in the immediate area, but they have a much smaller range, only a few dozen light years. Think about this though, space is big...really big. Again, in my head, I imagine that the corridor that the relay creates is only the size of the ship its propelling. The Normandy is not a very large ship and the odds of some chunk of metal being in that exact pinpoint path is astronomically low. However, even if there was something in the way, it wouldn't matter. At FTL speeds, a tiny screw is enough to destroy a ship. Considering FTL is a much more common method of travel and there are almost no instances of ships spontaneously blowing up because of scrap metal, I wouldn't say it's anything to worry about. Otherwise, no one would travel. Even if the entire relay corridor was filled with metal and junk for a hundred light years, since the ship's mass is zero it would go right through it. Like a Vanguard charging.

I can't really explain what happens to an object in the corridor though. I just accept that it's so unlikely that it doesn't matter, but it is something to think about.

That's an interesting notion, but then the question arises as to how mass effect cores are built. Because if any mass relay provides the necessary punch, might as well build smaller ship cores.

That would make them omni-directional, and thus would create more problems as I'll try to explain below.

"You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mindboggingly big it is.":D

This is the part I fail to understand. Say a star is in the path of the mass effect corridor. When the corridor is "activated" part of that star will now have no mass while the rest of it does. If the fields are omni-directional, the probability of this happening increases. Unless perhaps mass effect corridors are in place for a ridiculously small amount of time?

DownClown wrote...

As for stars, it's safe to say the relays are positioned to avoid them. Nobody wants to fly into a star, unless you're the Destiny that is[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

SGU had lots of potential. Pity it chose to waste it.

Modifié par OdanUrr, 05 mars 2012 - 12:44 .

[Adugan]

OdanUrr wrote...

DownClown wrote...

As for stars, it's safe to say the relays are positioned to avoid them. Nobody wants to fly into a star, unless you're the Destiny that is[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

SGU had lots of potential. Pity it chose to waste it.

I think of SGU as the DA2 of the SG franchise.

[DownClown]

OdanUrr wrote...

Cox303 wrote...

If you notice, everytime a ship enters a relay, the relay "latches" onto it with a bolt of electrified eezo. In my head I explain it like this. Mass Relays have the largest eezo cores in the galaxy. Even just a fraction of it has more dark energy than the largest core of the largest dreadnought. A standard core, or even the Normany's tantalus 2.0 core can't lower the mass to absolutely nothing. It's not powerful enough. What I think happens is that bolt of energy overcharges the ship's core and allows it to reduce the weight to nothing, then the relay takes over and propels the ship however many light years it needs to go.

As far as the direction of a relay, you're correct and incorrect. Primary relays are A to B, but that's because they have the largest range, hundreds and hundreds of light years. Secondary relays are linked to every relay in the immediate area, but they have a much smaller range, only a few dozen light years. Think about this though, space is big...really big. Again, in my head, I imagine that the corridor that the relay creates is only the size of the ship its propelling. The Normandy is not a very large ship and the odds of some chunk of metal being in that exact pinpoint path is astronomically low. However, even if there was something in the way, it wouldn't matter. At FTL speeds, a tiny screw is enough to destroy a ship. Considering FTL is a much more common method of travel and there are almost no instances of ships spontaneously blowing up because of scrap metal, I wouldn't say it's anything to worry about. Otherwise, no one would travel. Even if the entire relay corridor was filled with metal and junk for a hundred light years, since the ship's mass is zero it would go right through it. Like a Vanguard charging.

I can't really explain what happens to an object in the corridor though. I just accept that it's so unlikely that it doesn't matter, but it is something to think about.

That's an interesting notion, but then the question arises as to how mass effect cores are built. Because if any mass relay provides the necessary punch, might as well build smaller ship cores.

That would make them omni-directional, and thus would create more problems as I'll try to explain below.

"You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mindboggingly big it is.":D

This is the part I fail to understand. Say a star is in the path of the mass effect corridor. When the corridor is "activated" part of that star will now have no mass while the rest of it does. If the fields are omni-directional, the probability of this happening increases. Unless perhaps mass effect corridors are in place for a ridiculously small amount of time?

DownClown wrote...

As for stars, it's safe to say the relays are positioned to avoid them. Nobody wants to fly into a star, unless you're the Destiny that is[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

SGU had lots of potential. Pity it chose to waste it.

I know right? 

And the Mass Effect Corridor theory is solid up until stars become involved. 

This is why I think the MR would just launch you in the general direction of another Relay with no "set" path followed.

[Navasha]

Actually, the star are probably a non-issue.
When NASA was first going to send deep space probes to the outer solar system, everyone wondered how we would get through the asteroid belt beyond mars, as there is no way to figure out the randomness of so many moving bodies. As it turns out its a non-issue. No matter how densely packed they may seem its still mostly nothing and the odds of hitting a piece so small as to not even be warranted in the calculations. The same would be true of stars in the galaxy. As densely packed as they may seem... its still 99.999999999999999% open space.

[bwg888]

Wait... Normandy's large ship drive is impressive for plain-old FTL travel, not relay use. And yea, I would guess that relays are positioned to have nothing between them for at least most of the time, but the likelihood would be very very small, anyway. I'm pretty sure >99% of the area taken up by the milky way is empty space

edit: Frickin ninjas...

Modifié par bwg888, 05 mars 2012 - 01:01 .

[ItsFreakinJesus]

Not to mention, ship pilots calculate and adjust for drift, so the likelihood of them hitting a star is even smaller than if the Relay just randomly tossed them.

[bwg888]

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

Not to mention, ship pilots calculate and adjust for drift, so the likelihood of them hitting a star is even smaller than if the Relay just randomly tossed them.

I hear 1500k is good

[Tezlaa]

You can't explain the physics behind a mass relay when it uses an element that does not exist.

In real life though, Element zero can only really be compared to the still theoretical 'Higgs Boson' particle, which is not an element, but the particle that 'represents' mass. So maybe interacting with the Higgs in someway, could lower or increase the mass of atoms, and thus an object. How that would be done I have no idea, and to be honest, is probably impossible.

Moving on propelling an object to another Mass Relay must require some extremely accurate co-ordinating systems and an incredible amount of energy. And if that wasn't even enough of a mindblow, that relay also never needs to be 'charged' or its batteries to be replaced. My educated guess would be that the core of the relay must be able to sustain itself via cold fusion, and giving its limitless masses of energy to ships as they come near it.

So yeah, I might be completely wrong on this, but from my point of view, the relays have no real physics about them. They're just nice to look at