70 réponses à ce sujet

[swenson]

On collisions, couldn't that be explained by the fact that nothing has mass when it's traveling through a relay? (or, rather, that it has negative mass) I'm much up on my physics, but what would happen if two things with negative mass collided? Would they simply pass through one another? If so, then there's no issue with collisions.

Alternately, let's say ships can't collide because relays are set up to only allow one through at once. Still not sure how they handle stars/debris, though.

[OdanUrr]

It's not quite the collisions that worry me but the fact that the mass effect fields create regions of space-time with negative mass within regions of space-time with positive mass. Hyperspace or subspace both bypass this issue by propelling ships into an alternate "dimension" where there is no mass rather than creating a no-mass region within our own dimension.

Am I making sense here?

[78stonewobble]

Hmm if you try to accelerate an object towards the speed of light there are some relativistic effects taking place.

One is that the object is "shortened" in the direction of travel. Apparently the apollo astronauts (or rather their spacecraft) became immeasurably "shorter".

Another and more important effect is that the objects mass increases. Thus taking more energy to accelerate. Which increases mass which requires more energy and so on. At lightspeed the mass should approach infinity.

Thats why the particles that travel at lightspeed has no mass and the particles with any appreciable mass that travels fast needs the most energetic and massive phenomena (black holes) in the universe to get to that speed.

Thats how I remember it anyway. So correct me if I'm wrong.

My own guess on how mass relays work is that they lower the mass of a ship to zero. Essentially as a massless particle and then accelerates the ship to much faster than light speeds. At faster than light the ship does not interact with normal lower than light speed particles.

My rule being that stuff slower than light interacts only with other stuff slower than light. Faster than light the objects are mass less and presumably cannot interact at all untill they get caught at the next mass relay.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 05 mars 2012 - 01:47 .

[bwg888]

It was fun and all at the beginning, but now we really are getting into mixing real life with mass effect. Like I said, the very basic concept behind it is probably less mass = less force needed for acceleration, but none of it is actually possible, as far as we know. It's all actually ridiculously silly, according to our science, especially element zero

78stonewobble wrote...

My own guess on how mass relays
work is that they lower the mass of a ship to zero. Essentially as a
massless particle and then accelerates the ship to much faster than
light speeds.

Ok, now I'm gonna do it here, too, but I gotta say... well, I don't know exactly how it works, but having zero mass would mean dividing by zero in a = f/m. It can't really happen, so it's impossible to theorize what would actually happen. I think in-game it says near-zero. But again, I'm gonna be a jerk and say it's all kinda pointless to theorize about all this, because even Mass Effect doesn't take mass effect fields very seriously. It's just space magic

Modifié par bwg888, 05 mars 2012 - 02:01 .

[OdanUrr]

I'm not questioning how the mass effect fields can decrease the mass of a body, but what would happen when they effectively separate a body into negative-mass and positive-mass.

[DownClown]

78stonewobble wrote...

Hmm if you try to accelerate an object towards the speed of light there are some relativistic effects taking place.

One is that the object is "shortened" in the direction of travel. Apparently the apollo astronauts (or rather their spacecraft) became immeasurably "shorter".

Another and more important effect is that the objects mass increases. Thus taking more energy to accelerate. Which increases mass which requires more energy and so on. At lightspeed the mass should approach infinity.

Thats why the particles that travel at lightspeed has no mass and the particles with any appreciable mass that travels fast needs the most energetic and massive phenomena (black holes) in the universe to get to that speed.

Thats how I remember it anyway. So correct me if I'm wrong.

My own guess on how mass relays work is that they lower the mass of a ship to zero. Essentially as a massless particle and then accelerates the ship to much faster than light speeds. At faster than light the ship does not interact with normal lower than light speed particles.

My rule being that stuff slower than light interacts only with other stuff slower than light. Faster than light the objects are mass less and presumably cannot interact at all untill they get caught at the next mass relay.

Oh wow, this is actually a good theory. So objects that go through a relay jump actually switch dimensions because they possess no mass, and are moving at FTL speeds?

Huh, i wonder if dark energy or dark matter play any part in this?

[OdanUrr]

It'd be nice if someone from Bioware dropped by and helped us out here. How did they originally envision the mass relays would work? Do they propel ships into a sort of hyperspace or do they work within our own space-time?

[DownClown]

lol OP you have had me running around on a personal quest to piece a decent theory together for the past hour.

it's not going so well XD

[OdanUrr]

DownClown wrote...

lol OP you have had me running around on a personal quest to piece a decent theory together for the past hour.

it's not going so well XD

Let me know when you've pieced it together. I know I'm doing that myself.

[Edens]

This is a great thread, I hope it doesn't die anytime soon. =)

[Moonshadow_Dark]

Screw physics

I'M PINKIE PIE!

[MostlyAutumn]

78stonewobble wrote...

Hmm if you try to accelerate an object towards the speed of light there are some relativistic effects taking place.

Mass effect fields raise the speed of light within and relativistic effects are minimal.

Modifié par MostlyAutumn, 05 mars 2012 - 10:12 .

[Iron Star]

OdanUrr wrote...

Because even a fictional universe must abide by some laws, I'm curious as to how exactly mass relays work. See, I know they're built around an element zero core. According to the lore, eezo is a material than when subjected to an electrical current releases dark energy, which in turn can be manipulated to create a mass effect field. Any object within that field will experience an increase/decrease in mass.

I suppose mass relays must therefore create a field large enough to cover the distance to another relay, thus creating a mass-free corridor. This would effectively bypass gravitational issues and the eezo core aboard ships would effectively reduce their mass to zero.

My issue is with the interaction between a mass relay and a ship's core. What exactly happens here? Is there a transference of dark energy? If so, why? Is the mass relay engulfing the ship within its mass effect field?

There's also the issue of the direction of a mass effect field. If I'm reading this correctly, the mass effect field created by a relay is unidirectional, connecting only relay A with relay B, sort of like a highway. Still, even in a unidirectional mass effect field, what happens to the objects that are already on its path? Are they somehow bypassed or are the relays positioned so that this is not a factor?

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

This is a really interesting topic, it's these things that make the ME universe so interesting. Sadly, all we'll ever be told about how the MR work is that there are mass effect fields involved...

[Imortalfalcon]

bwg888 wrote...

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

Not to mention, ship pilots calculate and adjust for drift, so the likelihood of them hitting a star is even smaller than if the Relay just randomly tossed them.

I hear 1500k is good

The captain will be pleased.

[SKiLLYWiLLY2]

bwg888 wrote...

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

Not to mention, ship pilots calculate and adjust for drift, so the likelihood of them hitting a star is even smaller than if the Relay just randomly tossed them.

I hear 1500k is good

lol

[Foxtrot_212]

Hmmmm, I was thought of it from a Farscape approach, it sling shots at the right velocity with the right kind of power equal to a sun that bursts into a wormhole.

[78stonewobble]

bwg888 wrote...

It was fun and all at the beginning, but now we really are getting into mixing real life with mass effect. Like I said, the very basic concept behind it is probably less mass = less force needed for acceleration, but none of it is actually possible, as far as we know. It's all actually ridiculously silly, according to our science, especially element zero

78stonewobble wrote...

My own guess on how mass relays
work is that they lower the mass of a ship to zero. Essentially as a
massless particle and then accelerates the ship to much faster than
light speeds.

Ok, now I'm gonna do it here, too, but I gotta say... well, I don't know exactly how it works, but having zero mass would mean dividing by zero in a = f/m. It can't really happen, so it's impossible to theorize what would actually happen. I think in-game it says near-zero. But again, I'm gonna be a jerk and say it's all kinda pointless to theorize about all this, because even Mass Effect doesn't take mass effect fields very seriously. It's just space magic

Space magic indeed  

But... it's not really whether you can divide by zero that decides which particles have mass or no mass

[78stonewobble]

MostlyAutumn wrote...

78stonewobble wrote...

Hmm if you try to accelerate an object towards the speed of light there are some relativistic effects taking place.

Mass effect fields raise the speed of light within and relativistic effects are minimal.

Yeah it's not until like 99.999... percent of the speed of light but my point was that EVEN with the huge effort of getting close to light speed it would still take YEARS to get to even a close star system. Atleast without mass effect fields.

I might not have gotten that across ...

In ME they zip around the galaxy and even outside (reapers) so it's got to be a helluva lot faster than lightspeed and use an "energy" shortcut.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 05 mars 2012 - 11:58 .

[andrewv42]

Mass effect fields employ a variety of energy - dark energy - that is already very little understood. The very existence of dark energy is largely conjectural. If something resembling mass effect technology is at all possible, then explanation of it exceeds the current boundaries of physics. I agree with a post made earlier in this thread, that mass effect fields are space magic that make a, "Galactic Civilization," possible, without which the game would have no basis for a story.

In any event, the Reapers - or their creators, for that matter - have achieved frightening technological advancements. 

Modifié par andrewv42, 05 mars 2012 - 12:27 .

[Seraphithan]

OdanUrr wrote...

I'm not questioning how the mass effect fields can decrease the mass of a body, but what would happen when they effectively separate a body into negative-mass and positive-mass.

Relay travel is instantaneous and while that probably causes its own set of problems it means there is literally no time for any form of interaction.

[Alikain]

The relays use the mass effect of element zero (related to dark energy) to alter space-time, allowing virtually instantaneous travel between any two points. They come in two versions, one version links to all nearby relays while the other links to only one relay but has greater range. Ships also have FTL-cores that use the same principle, but don't have the energy capacity of a relay. The bigger the ship, the more mass must be neutralized and the slower it can travel per unit of element zero.

[MoltenRock]

bwg888 wrote...

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

Not to mention, ship pilots calculate and adjust for drift, so the likelihood of them hitting a star is even smaller than if the Relay just randomly tossed them.

I hear 1500k is good

Indeed, your captain will be pleased.

[QuarkZ26]

Unfortunately according to their own descrption

"Mass relays function by creating a virtually mass-free "corridor" of space-time between each other. This can propel a starship across enormous distances that would take centuries to traverse, even at FTL speeds"

Basically they say that it's virtually mass-free, which means it's actually not completely. Then they say "even at FTL speed" which suggests that the relays make you travel at faster than light speeds.
Well nothing that has a mass can travel faster than light, if it does, it would require an infinite amount of energy, which is not possible.
So unless they can turn your ship into tachyons, i don't know how they would make you travel FTL.

In other words... Ah yes... "space magic". We like those claims.

[xentar]

Simple: it's magick™! Because reducing an object's mass won't make it go FTL.

Modifié par xentar, 05 mars 2012 - 02:42 .