57 réponses à ce sujet

[OdanUrr]

Aesieru wrote...

Oh that's easy.

Relays are molecularly shielded. The problem is, a significant kinetic energy impact could cause damage because kinetic energy isn't a type of plasma, heat or energy type of "energy" as people think as much as kinetic force. Any impact from kinetics while impart whatever that kinetic object's mass was based  on its acceleration.

They explained this pretty well actually.

Kinetic energy is a form of energy. When a moving object A collides into a stationary object B, in a perfect inelastic collision, the momentum is conserved. The two bodies will now move together with a velocity less than Va but larger than Vb (which was zero), because part of the original kinetic energy of object A has been transformed into other forms of energy (for instance, internal energy). The only thing I expected to happen in Arrival was that the relay would start moving, not that it would get destroyed. I can only picture the relay getting destroyed if some other force held it in place, thus making it impossible to convert some energy into kinetic energy.

[Vaenier]

Aesieru wrote...

Except the energy isn't concentrated so much as split across a massive radius. An asteroid is a strike-type weapon and everything from that impact is transferred.

Its all a question of math, and honestly, I have no idea. But the fact it didnt have to be right next to the nova to still be pushed by it means its not a plot hole, reguardless of whether it would have been enough to overload it.

[G3rman]

Its a controlled explosion that doesn't affect the system.

Look up controlled demolition for the concept.

[Aesieru]

OdanUrr wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Oh that's easy.

Relays are molecularly shielded. The problem is, a significant kinetic energy impact could cause damage because kinetic energy isn't a type of plasma, heat or energy type of "energy" as people think as much as kinetic force. Any impact from kinetics while impart whatever that kinetic object's mass was based  on its acceleration.

They explained this pretty well actually.

Kinetic energy is a form of energy. When a moving object A collides into a stationary object B, in a perfect inelastic collision, the momentum is conserved. The two bodies will now move together with a velocity less than Va but larger than Vb (which was zero), because part of the original kinetic energy of object A has been transformed into other forms of energy (for instance, internal energy). The only thing I expected to happen in Arrival was that the relay would start moving, not that it would get destroyed. I can only picture the relay getting destroyed if some other force held it in place, thus making it impossible to convert some energy into kinetic energy.

I know for a fact you're wrong because a ton of people were debating it a while back when Arrival came out and confirmed it would work.

But no, an object with significant mass can transfer the kinetic energy onto an object.

---

I surmise that once you get past the shields of those relays, they are actually pretty delicate.

Modifié par Aesieru, 05 mars 2012 - 02:00 .

[Alikain]

simply answer i think they forgot about what happen to the arrival mass relay and what it did. from what i can tell when the relay exploded they send some of they energy to the next relay reduce the aftershock of explosion making it different from the arrival relay. i say this because no matter what self destruct or self overload what ever you what to called should yield the same destructive force as something that was destroy.

[Aesieru]

Alikain wrote...

simply answer i think they forgot about what happen to the arrival mass relay and what it did. from what i can tell when the relay exploded they send some of they energy to the next relay reduce the aftershock of explosion making it different from the arrival relay. i say this because no matter what self destruct or self overload what ever you what to called should yield the same destructive force as something that was destroy.

Not without an overload would it actually affect anything else.

Unless it is actively using the energies, an overload cannot occur and a supernova-like instance can not occur.

[OdanUrr]

Aesieru wrote...

I know for a fact you're wrong because a ton of people were debating it a while back when Arrival came out and confirmed it would work.

But no, an object with significant mass can transfer the kinetic energy onto an object.

---

I surmise that once you get past the shields of those relays, they are actually pretty delicate.

I know this already, but not all of the kinetic energy of the body A will become internal energy of the body B. Body B will now be accelerated as well.

[Aesieru]

OdanUrr wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

I know for a fact you're wrong because a ton of people were debating it a while back when Arrival came out and confirmed it would work.

But no, an object with significant mass can transfer the kinetic energy onto an object.

---

I surmise that once you get past the shields of those relays, they are actually pretty delicate.

I know this already, but not all of the kinetic energy of the body A will become internal energy of the body B. Body B will now be accelerated as well.

I can only indicate that the asteroid being accelerated by mass effect drives was enough acceleration combined with the mass of the object to impart significant damage to the relay and destroy it.

[nocbl2]

Vaenier wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

AKofC wrote...

Because if a Mass Relay explodes, as seen in the ending, shouldn't it pretty much wipe out the system it's in? 

Arrival is canon. Since you're talking about sense, explain to me how a relay can survive the blast of a supernova but gets obliterated by an asteroid.

It was on the outer blast of a nova, maybe not even its star went nova, but a nearby one.

Actually this is what Liara says about Ilos.

[Alikain]

Aesieru wrote...

Alikain wrote...

simply answer i think they forgot about what happen to the arrival mass relay and what it did. from what i can tell when the relay exploded they send some of they energy to the next relay reduce the aftershock of explosion making it different from the arrival relay. i say this because no matter what self destruct or self overload what ever you what to called should yield the same destructive force as something that was destroy.

Not without an overload would it actually affect anything else.

Unless it is actively using the energies, an overload cannot occur and a supernova-like instance can not occur.

well if you look at it close when the overload started its seem like the mass relay was activeted like it was in use. but the arrival relay was different.

[Aesieru]

Alikain wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Alikain wrote...

simply answer i think they forgot about what happen to the arrival mass relay and what it did. from what i can tell when the relay exploded they send some of they energy to the next relay reduce the aftershock of explosion making it different from the arrival relay. i say this because no matter what self destruct or self overload what ever you what to called should yield the same destructive force as something that was destroy.

Not without an overload would it actually affect anything else.

Unless it is actively using the energies, an overload cannot occur and a supernova-like instance can not occur.

well if you look at it close when the overload started its seem like the mass relay was activeted like it was in use. but the arrival relay was different.

Actually it launches the beam, it seems like it begins to slow down rapidly.

The Arrival Relay was strange, it was acting like a relay which had incoming arrivals (kinda like the Citadel Battle showed with the relay near the Citadel in the fleet with Sovereign) but compared to the Charon relay? Hah that thing barely moves.

Let me show you.

---

Relay at Citadel:

 

(Even after the fleet arrives it mains that speed)

Omega 4 Relay: (Switch to 2 minutes 05 seconds or so to see relay activation)

 

(Slower than Citadel)

Arrival Relay:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyM_IEpkI2Q 

(Much Slower, though appears faster when not in cutscene)

Charon Relay (Near Earth):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhQtb4RHaMI 

(Slowest Relay ever)

Charon Relay (Destroyed):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGL9b0i_tpI 

(Fastest and then stops)




----

I just noticed that the Arrival Relay is glitched in graphics, as two sets of rings instead of one set of ring are actually in it before the cutscene arrives, so it seems to have had 2 relay graphic entities instead of just 1.

Modifié par Aesieru, 05 mars 2012 - 03:08 .

[xtorma]

It's all conjecture. We dont know crap. they don't tell us. thats the beauty of space magic. Hint an an explaination , so there is no reason to give one. let the fans make it up. That way you can't be wrong.

If each relay transfered a portion of its destructive power to the next,(in order to keep from destroying the cluster) it would start to multiply expotentially.(assuming each one exploded at the same intensity) by the time it reached the last relay ( there must be millions of them because there are hundreds of millions of starts that can support life) , the explosions would be astronomically huge.

it would eventually get to the point where the explosions would be taking out whole clusters, then multiple clusters, eventually the galaxy would be destroyed. conservation of energy , that crap has got to be going somewhere.

Modifié par xtorma, 05 mars 2012 - 03:10 .

[H00plehead]

The Free Jaffa wrote...

It's canon. One is an explosion due to an outside force, the other is a self-contained self-destruct of sorts.

Bio Drones cannot into physics.

Modifié par H00plehead, 05 mars 2012 - 03:33 .

[Aesieru]

H00plehead wrote...

The Free Jaffa wrote...

It's canon. One is an explosion due to an outside force, the other is a self-contained self-destruct of sorts.

Bio Drones cannot into physics.

Uh... you can destroy things without them blowing up in massive ways.

[H00plehead]

Aesieru wrote...

H00plehead wrote...

The Free Jaffa wrote...

It's canon. One is an explosion due to an outside force, the other is a self-contained self-destruct of sorts.

Bio Drones cannot into physics.

Uh... you can destroy things without them blowing up in massive ways.

In space? Is there a blackhole nearby to capture all that radiation?

Stick to trying to justify plot holes, Aesieru, at least you can double-think your way through that.

Modifié par H00plehead, 05 mars 2012 - 03:45 .

[Aesieru]

H00plehead wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

H00plehead wrote...

The Free Jaffa wrote...

It's canon. One is an explosion due to an outside force, the other is a self-contained self-destruct of sorts.

Bio Drones cannot into physics.

Uh... you can destroy things without them blowing up in massive ways.

In space? Is there a blackhole nearby to capture all that radiation?

Stick to trying to justify plot holes, Aesieru, at least you can double-think your way through that.

Come on insult me so I can report you for violating the CoC.

---

Anyway, I don't believe the element zero has a hostile radiation so their destruction wouldn't be damaging in that regard.

[RayDX]

Aesieru is talking out of his ass. Garbage he's spewing about energy is complete jibberish, like technobable from Star Trek Voyager.

Energy is a human interpretation of that which enables bodies to do work. Plasma is not energy and glowing **** is not energy. That's just Hollywood. Energy is the ability of a body to do work. Nothing more. Nothing less.

All types of "energy" are a specific case of the simplest kinetic possible not because they actually differ, but to give an idea what are you trying to do. A moving body has energy, a body in an accelerated field has energy. It just a human idea, nothing physical, nothing real.

Heat is just particles vibrating (translating back and forth), or simply particles moving and colliding with other particles (say, your hand) and making them move in the process, "giving" energy ("burning you"). Mass Effect's "science" is full of **** even in the "sci-fi" domain.

When they move fast enough, they can interact on different levels, combine themselves into denser elements or fall apart into half elements etc.

Glowing **** can be appended to EM radiation due to emissions of an excited matter, which then again resolves to moving particles.

Energy on its own does not exist. It's a human notion of understanding the universe.

Modifié par RayDX, 05 mars 2012 - 03:48 .

[Ryuuken117]

Mass Effect fields because space magic because physics and gays in space.

End of line.

[Aesieru]

RayDX wrote...

Aesieru is talking out of his ass. Garbage he's spewing about energy is complete jibberish, like technobable from Star Trek Voyager.

Energy is a human interpretation of that which enables bodies to do work. Plasma is not energy and glowing **** is not energy. That's just Hollywood. Energy is the ability of a body to do work. Nothing more. Nothing less.

All types of "energy" are a specific case of the simplest kinetic possible not because they actually differ, but to give an idea what are you trying to do. A moving body has energy, a body in an accelerated field has energy. It just a human idea, nothing physical, nothing real.

Heat is just particles vibrating (translating back and forth), or simply particles moving and colliding with other particles (say, your hand) and making them move in the process, "giving" energy. Mass Effect's "science" is full of **** even in the "sci-fi" domain.

Glowing **** can be appended to EM radiation due to emissions of an excited matter, which then again resolves to moving particles.

Energy on its own does not exist. It's a human notion of understanding the universe.

Sorry, but I actually have science to support me, I don't insult people to prove my points, in this case at least.

You're just disputing the point by trying to define energy, which does not in any way dispute the actual issue because you have to classify what those particular types of particles and energies are.

---

In any case, the information is out there and it hasn't only been stated by me, just this time around.

I'm not going to waste time arguing though, I've doen that far too much today.

Modifié par Aesieru, 05 mars 2012 - 03:50 .

[RayDX]

Oh, you have science? How cute. That's your idea of proof. Let us see your proof. I'm a physicist by profession and I don't use that as basis for my arguments. You are wrong on so many different levels that I actually logged in just to respond to you. Even the ending catastrophe didn't get me to login.

Modifié par RayDX, 05 mars 2012 - 03:51 .

[Aesieru]

RayDX wrote...

Oh, you have science? How cute. That's your idea of proof. Let us see your proof. I'm a physicist by profession and I don't use that as basis for my arguments.

An arrogant and insulting physicist? Mmm that's disappointing.

In any case, if you dispute the term "energy" then you have to come up with the actual classification for the listed particles and "energies".

Else you're just arguing somantics.

[RayDX]

Ryuuken117 wrote...

Mass Effect fields because space magic because physics and gays in space.

End of line.

This.

Discussing physical phenomena in Mass Effect which is riddled with contradictions and unconsidered implications is pointless. More than one "theory" of ME universe enables a perpetuum mobile to be built. It's pointless to discuss it.

What happened is a computer animation. Not simulation. Not even triggered actions and calculated, scripted responses. Just keyframed animation.

Modifié par RayDX, 05 mars 2012 - 03:55 .

[Aesieru]

RayDX wrote...

Ryuuken117 wrote...

Mass Effect fields because space magic because physics and gays in space.

End of line.

This.

Not prepared to back up your argument of somantics?

I see.

[RayDX]

Aesieru wrote...

RayDX wrote...

Ryuuken117 wrote...

Mass Effect fields because space magic because physics and gays in space.

End of line.

This.

Not prepared to back up your argument of somantics?

I see.

Bro, it's semantics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantics

[Aesieru]

RayDX wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

RayDX wrote...

Ryuuken117 wrote...

Mass Effect fields because space magic because physics and gays in space.

End of line.

This.

Not prepared to back up your argument of somantics?

I see.

Bro, it's semantics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantics

Typo, Somantics is yoga.

Anyway...

---

If you come in and say "HAH, you're wrong, because...", but don't actually put anything to explain the situation in the first place, then you're basically just trolling because you're not conducive or contributing.

You're correct that energy as it's used in sci-fi isn't really energy, but, since every Sci-Fi calls it energy, we're going to go with that for sake of convenience. And there ARE different impacts for energy, especially in regards to the science fiction and science established for this series.