135 réponses à ce sujet

[Repearized Miranda]

DownClown wrote...

Let's see.

*snipped expletive*

I honestly don't see how people can get so offended at a game as not to buy it, even before it comes out. And i liked DA2 enough to beat it like six times lol

I realize the excitment, but easy on the expletives! May I suggest using something synonymous!

[SumoPanda17]

Well, lets check is ME3:
-Promoted by Peter Molenoux?
-Made by a different studio than the first two?
The answer to both of those questions is no. Therefore, it shouldnt fall below expectations.
Everyone is worried that the endings will be bad. Think about it, Bioware has put years into the
Mass Effect trilogy, do you really think they would write an ending that would hurt the series?
Im not worried, because i know when tuesday comes, and i pop the game into my 360, i will play a gripping and fantastic story that ends my favorite trilogy in gaming.

[SLPr0]

BlahDog wrote...

SLPr0 wrote...

If ME3 does "suck" I doubt it will tank BioWare entirely, but, I can safely say that if it sucks, and Bethesda puts out Fallout 4 using their new Creation engine they used with Skyrim, I'll probably be putting Bethsoft back at the top of my list of developers.

BioWare and Bethsoft have always been a neck and neck race for me, I think BioWare tells stories better, but Bethsoft tends to make better RPG's, if Bethsoft was to somehow get their story telling more compelling, BioWare would very quickly become a second rate developer in comparison.

Open world and story-telling don't mix. Linearity is the only way to tell good stories so I doubt Beth would start having good stories just like that.

True, sandboxes and compelling story telling can be difficult, but man imagine if some company was able to get it done.

Imagine a game with the open ended scale of Skyrim having obscenely detailed story telling as well. Christ I'd probably never get any work done ever again.

Linear design is not required for compelling stories, but, the amount of work it would take to create a multi-branching story which had effects on the game world as you randomly interacted with various bits of it would be a fairly serious undertaking.

I don't think sandboxes and story telling are mutually exclusive but the development time required to actually make it viable is probably prohibitive for anyone working against a deadline.

But someone is going to do it eventually.

[UrPhreshness]

 To be honest people on the BSN must live in a really small bubble because outside of here the vast majority of people  greatly enjoyed ME2 and are extremely hyped for ME3 and are willing to overlook most shortcomings (and a lot of what BSN considers shortcomings most would consider just nitpicking) that ME3 might have. Fact is while they might lose a few of the elitist gamers that frequent these forums the average ME fan will probably have plenty of faith in Bioware when dealing with future titles (with the exception of maybe the Dragon Age series...).

[Il Divo]

Jacen987 wrote...

Well, lets put it this way? Did ME2 deserve GOTY?

I'd say so.

[redsox95MB]

no

[Moondoggie]

I doubt we'll see any change in Bioware sales numbers after ME3 heck people asked these sorts of questions after DA2 and even ME2 and yet pre order numbers for ME3 are strong and sales are expected to be high for the game. I imagine like after ME2 was released there will be a ton of general whining because the game is not like how player A envisioned it would be and they feel let down blah blah blah.

It seems like everytime Bioware release a new game that people are ready to jump down their throats and moan about it. I even recall when Dragon Age Origins was coming out and after it was released the "hardcore" fans were picking on it and moaning that Bioware sold out to console gamers and the same can be said for Mass Effect and fan reaction both of which now are considered some of Bioware's best games.

This stuff is just the norm for a Bioware release and it will change nothing at all. Lately i guess people have become more dramatic about it and that comes with Bioware becoming bigger and bigger and it's the same thing that happend to Square-Enix and their major franchises. The fans just became progressively more whiny and now they hate anything they release even if they still buy everything.

DA2 has it's faults but it isn't nearly as poor as some people make out. It's a very average game but certainly not the worst game ever. Bad games exist and if you play a bad game and then play DA2 you'll see it's good points. But that's just me and i feel ME3 will be a much better game overall than DA2. And if you want to play Bioware's worst RPG i'd go for Jade Empire. But of course nobody will say that because they look at that game through rose tinted specs of nostalgia.

The things people are complaining about with ME3 so far are kind of silly. The endings well the ending most of them wanted was silly and unrealistic anyway. Happily ever after endings are always pointless and we already got that in DAO and since ME3 is already borrowing ideas from DAO i'd rarther not they borrow the ending too.

Also the dialogue personally i found scenes flowed a lot better and added that movie look that the previous two games are going for. All that start stop in conversations isn't needed for all conversations and especially in scenes where a lot is going on. Yes there is some auto dialogue but it keeps things going there is a lot less silence in this game from Shepard and i think it improves the atmosphere.

You also talk about the RPG elements there are far more RPG elements implemented in ME3 than their were in ME2 a game which you actually defend which was more of a "CoD style shooter" than ME3 which brings back elements from ME1 people like. Adding in some extra dialogue does not make it less of an RPG. Adding in better skill trees, weapons mods and balancing powers with weight of equipment meaning you have to think tactically about what you use makes it more of an RPG than ME2.

Another complaint i see a lot is about the kid at the start of the game and the "forced emotion" which amusingly is the opposite of ****ing about the DA2 demo where people said Hawke was showing no emotion to their sibling dying. So okay now we have a new game and Shepard reacting to a kid dying is just "too emotional" *rolls eyes* It doesnt matter what they do people will complain even if it contradicts their complaints about the previous game.

So anyway no i don't think whining about ME3 will change a thing for Bioware in future but i am sure that come the next game people will be making complaints. It's been the norm for years now ever since Bioware moved to consoles and stopped being exclusive to PC they have been "pandering to the kiddy gamers/CoD crowd and dumbing down"

Modifié par Moondoggie, 05 mars 2012 - 02:59 .

[Seker666]

BlahDog wrote...

Well, I find that Bioware is a very experimental company that does many "tests" with their games. This is why I believe they are so prone to release DLC

That is understandable but experimentation or not shouldn't be an excuse for failure. Not to mention that but Bioware is a company; companies are there to create a product that masses want and in return are paid for said product. Bioware over the years has learned what the people do want and while people and times do change Bioware doesn't seem to be handling this like a company. Just my oppinion

Modifié par Seker666, 05 mars 2012 - 02:55 .

[Jacen987]

Il Divo wrote...

Jacen987 wrote...

Well, lets put it this way? Did ME2 deserve GOTY?

I'd say so.

Pardon,,.....

[RoboticWater]

SLPr0 wrote...

BlahDog wrote...

SLPr0 wrote...

If ME3 does "suck" I doubt it will tank BioWare entirely, but, I can safely say that if it sucks, and Bethesda puts out Fallout 4 using their new Creation engine they used with Skyrim, I'll probably be putting Bethsoft back at the top of my list of developers.

BioWare and Bethsoft have always been a neck and neck race for me, I think BioWare tells stories better, but Bethsoft tends to make better RPG's, if Bethsoft was to somehow get their story telling more compelling, BioWare would very quickly become a second rate developer in comparison.

Open world and story-telling don't mix. Linearity is the only way to tell good stories so I doubt Beth would start having good stories just like that.

True, sandboxes and compelling story telling can be difficult, but man imagine if some company was able to get it done.

Imagine a game with the open ended scale of Skyrim having obscenely detailed story telling as well. Christ I'd probably never get any work done ever again.

Linear design is not required for compelling stories, but, the amount of work it would take to create a multi-branching story which had effects on the game world as you randomly interacted with various bits of it would be a fairly serious undertaking.

I don't think sandboxes and story telling are mutually exclusive but the development time required to actually make it viable is probably prohibitive for anyone working against a deadline.

But someone is going to do it eventually.

Well, you have to consider a few things
-Tension created by force- In Skyrim you can do any quest whenever you want and can back out of them at mostly any time. Without a feeling of need to do a certain objective, ther isn't any dramatic tension. While this isn't entirely necessary, it is a bigg opportunity lost.
-Timing- If you can go anywhere you want at any time, you may go somewhere that was supposed to be dramatically revealed later on thus ruining the awe. Again, not necessary but a nice addition.

That's all I can think of for now but then of course there's the massive ammount of work required to make an open world filled with interesting stories and characters.

[DownClown]

Repearized Miranda wrote...

DownClown wrote...

Let's see.

*snipped expletive*

I honestly don't see how people can get so offended at a game as not to buy it, even before it comes out. And i liked DA2 enough to beat it like six times lol

I realize the excitment, but easy on the expletives! May I suggest using something synonymous!

I apologize! I'll fix it lol

[Dragoonlordz]

Jacen987 wrote...

Very doubtful. Mass Effect III will probably win GOTY. Will it deserve it? Against titles like AC3,GTA5,Diablo 3, MaxPayne3,......

Well, lets put it this way? Did ME2 deserve GOTY?

No. I think it did not. 

Also like said elsewhere...

Thats fine, if they have indeed stopped making games I enjoy or desire I will buy something else. I will try ME3 and see for myself and make decisions after that. If they ever make something more inline with what brought me to this series in first place then I will buy that. I won't hate Bioware for no longer catering to what it is I like, I will just bide my time with other franchises until or if they ever make something again which I want. They lost me in DA franchise for time being due to DA2 and will require drastric and radical change in direction for me to become re-interested in that franchise, ToR was never any real interest for me and neither is C&C. Will see what is in store for ME3 once got my copy. 

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 05 mars 2012 - 03:00 .

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

SumoPanda17 wrote...

Well, lets check is ME3:
-Promoted by Peter Molenoux?
-Made by a different studio than the first two?
The answer to both of those questions is no. Therefore, it shouldnt fall below expectations.
Everyone is worried that the endings will be bad. Think about it, Bioware has put years into the
Mass Effect trilogy, do you really think they would write an ending that would hurt the series?
Im not worried, because i know when tuesday comes, and i pop the game into my 360, i will play a gripping and fantastic story that ends my favorite trilogy in gaming.

It wasn't promoted by Peter Molyneux but I'll be damned if they didn't his classes.

[JDavidGoetz]

im sorry why dont people relax and try the game first then complain about it if they dont like parts of it

[Meltemph]

JDavidGoetz wrote...

im sorry why dont people relax and try the game first then complain about it if they dont like parts of it

Because everyone has an agenda with their complaints, they want the game they envisioned more then the one the developer made.  This is BSN, how many people do you know just go with the flow?  Everything is pretty "exteme serialness" here.

[Ji99saw]

jreezy wrote...

Wake me up when dialogue choice equates to something being an "RPG".

I'm sorry but when did it become mandatory to have any dialoge choice in a "RPG", if I remember correctly Mass Effect was the first and only game to have span across 3 games. Just so you know the earlier video game RPGs had no dialoge choice and linear gameplay

Modifié par Ji99saw, 05 mars 2012 - 03:03 .

[Unato]

I remember NWN was meant to be Bioware's downfall... then DA2... and now ME3?

well I'm calling C&C Generals 2 will be Bioware's next downfall, yep BW will just keep on falling

[RoboticWater]

Seker666 wrote...

BlahDog wrote...

Well, I find that Bioware is a very experimental company that does many "tests" with their games. This is why I believe they are so prone to release DLC

That is understandable but experimentation or not shouldn't be an excuse for failure. Not to mention that but Bioware is a company; companies are there to create a product that masses want and in return are paid for said product. Bioware over the years has learned what the people do want and while people and times do change Bioware doesn't seem to be handling this like a company. Just my oppinion

Oh, of course not. Expiramenting is no reason for a bad product but nothing Bioware has created recently has failed completely. There are many things They added that people didn't like but there are also many things added that were liked and for e that is enough. Like I said, I think anything Bioware has experimented with would be much better in a new IP that could go in any direction unlike continuing a current IP which would require meeting fan hyped-up expectations. 

Modifié par BlahDog, 05 mars 2012 - 03:08 .

[Il Divo]

Jacen987 wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Jacen987 wrote...

Well, lets put it this way? Did ME2 deserve GOTY?

I'd say so.

Pardon,,.....

Opinions are wonderful, are they not? 

[Seker666]

Unato wrote...

I remember NWN was meant to be Bioware's downfall

I was to young when that game came out to care about forums but people hated on that game? it was one of my favorite when I was young.

BlahDog wrote...
but nothing Bioware has created recently has failed
completely.

I disagree but i respect your oppinion

BlahDog wrote...
Like I said, I think anything Bioware has experimented with
would be much better in a new IP that could go in any direction unlike
continuing a current IP.

Agreed

Modifié par Seker666, 05 mars 2012 - 03:07 .

[UrPhreshness]

Moondoggie wrote...

I doubt we'll see any change in Bioware sales numbers after ME3 heck people asked these sorts of questions after DA2 and even ME2 and yet pre order numbers for ME3 are strong and sales are expected to be high for the game. I imagine like after ME2 was released there will be a ton of general whining because the game is not like how player A envisioned it would be and they feel let down blah blah blah.

It seems like everytime Bioware release a new game that people are ready to jump down their throats and moan about it. I even recall when Dragon Age Origins was coming out and after it was released the "hardcore" fans were picking on it and moaning that Bioware sold out to console gamers and the same can be said for Mass Effect and fan reaction both of which now are considered some of Bioware's best games.

This stuff is just the norm for a Bioware release and it will change nothing at all. Lately i guess people have become more dramatic about it and that comes with Bioware becoming bigger and bigger and it's the same thing that happend to Square-Enix and their major franchises. The fans just became progressively more whiny and now they hate anything they release even if they still buy everything.

DA2 has it's faults but it isn't nearly as poor as some people make out. It's a very average game but certainly not the worst game ever. Bad games exist and if you play a bad game and then play DA2 you'll see it's good points. But that's just me and i feel ME3 will be a much better game overall than DA2. And if you want to play Bioware's worst RPG i'd go for Jade Empire. But of course nobody will say that because they look at that game through rose tinted specs of nostalgia.

The things people are complaining about with ME3 so far are kind of silly. The endings well the ending most of them wanted was silly and unrealistic anyway. Happily ever after endings are always pointless and we already got that in DAO and since ME3 is already borrowing ideas from DAO i'd rarther not they borrow the ending too.

Also the dialogue personally i found scenes flowed a lot better and added that movie look that the previous two games are going for. All that start stop in conversations isn't needed for all conversations and especially in scenes where a lot is going on. Yes there is some auto dialogue but it keeps things going there is a lot less silence in this game from Shepard and i think it improves the atmosphere.

You also talk about the RPG elements there are far more RPG elements implemented in ME3 than their were in ME2 a game which you actually defend which was more of a "CoD style shooter" than ME3 which brings back elements from ME1 people like. Adding in some extra dialogue does not make it less of an RPG. Adding in better skill trees, weapons mods and balancing powers with weight of equipment meaning you have to think tactically about what you use makes it more of an RPG than ME2.

Another complaint i see a lot is about the kid at the start of the game and the "forced emotion" which amusingly is the opposite of ****ing about the DA2 demo where people said Hawke was showing no emotion to their sibling dying. So okay now we have a new game and Shepard reacting to a kid dying is just "too emotional" *rolls eyes* It doesnt matter what they do people will complain even if it contradicts their complaints about the previous game.

So anyway no i don't think whining about ME3 will change a thing for Bioware in future but i am sure that come the next game people will be making complaints. It's been the norm for years now ever since Bioware moved to consoles and stopped being exclusive to PC they have been "pandering to the kiddy gamers/CoD crowd and dumbing down"

Thank you for putting it more eloquently than I  ever could.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Moondoggie wrote...


Another complaint i see a lot is about the kid at the start of the game and the "forced emotion" which amusingly is the opposite of ****ing about the DA2 demo where people said Hawke was showing no emotion to their sibling dying. So okay now we have a new game and Shepard reacting to a kid dying is just "too emotional" *rolls eyes* It doesnt matter what they do people will complain even if it contradicts their complaints about the previous game.

The problem really is their writing. There are ways to convey emotion without it feeling forced. They just don't have their middle ground. Either it's a problem with no emotion, as with Hawke who barely skimmed over their siblings lifeless corpse. Or it's so much it's shoved down the players throats, "You can't save me."

There are ways to naturally include emotion. Most people who played Half Life 2 felt a connection to Alyx Vance without ever responding verbally to her. Considering we've been with Shepard for three games it shouldn't be hard to pull this off.

[Repearized Miranda]

DownClown wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

DownClown wrote...

Let's see.

*snipped expletive*

I honestly don't see how people can get so offended at a game as not to buy it, even before it comes out. And i liked DA2 enough to beat it like six times lol

I realize the excitment, but easy on the expletives! May I suggest using something synonymous!

I apologize! I'll fix it lol

I'm cool with it - dems the rules though! Anyway, yeah, that is kinda ridiculous! I do wish people would ease up, but it is better to let out your frustrations. However, doing so beforehand, undeniably says one thing:

Your expections were too flipping high! So, it's probably one of those: "I'd better just cut my losses!" As you see, they're already expecting failure!

[Jacen987]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Jacen987 wrote...

Very doubtful. Mass Effect III will probably win GOTY. Will it deserve it? Against titles like AC3,GTA5,Diablo 3, MaxPayne3,......

Well, lets put it this way? Did ME2 deserve GOTY?

No. I think it did not. 

Also like said elsewhere...

Thats fine, if they have indeed stopped making games I enjoy or desire I will buy something else. I will try ME3 and see for myself and make decisions after that. If they ever make something more inline with what brought me to this series in first place then I will buy that. I won't hate Bioware for no longer catering to what it is I like, I will just bide my time with other franchises until or if they ever make something again which I want. They lost me in DA franchise for time being due to DA2 and will require drastric and radical change in direction for me to become re-interested in that franchise, ToR was never any real interest for me and neither is C&C. Will see what is in store for ME3 once got my copy. 

Hmm, a sensible attitude. What do ya know. Guess Humanity is not doomed after all!

UrPhreshness wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...

I
doubt we'll see any change in Bioware sales numbers after ME3 heck
people asked these sorts of questions after DA2 and even ME2 and yet pre
order numbers for ME3 are strong and sales are expected to be high for
the game. I imagine like after ME2 was released there will be a ton of
general whining because the game is not like how player A envisioned it
would be and they feel let down blah blah blah.

It seems like
everytime Bioware release a new game that people are ready to jump down
their throats and moan about it. I even recall when Dragon Age Origins
was coming out and after it was released the "hardcore" fans were
picking on it and moaning that Bioware sold out to console gamers and
the same can be said for Mass Effect and fan reaction both of which now
are considered some of Bioware's best games.

This stuff is just
the norm for a Bioware release and it will change nothing at all. Lately
i guess people have become more dramatic about it and that comes with
Bioware becoming bigger and bigger and it's the same thing that happend
to Square-Enix and their major franchises. The fans just became
progressively more whiny and now they hate anything they release even if
they still buy everything.

DA2 has it's faults but it isn't
nearly as poor as some people make out. It's a very average game but
certainly not the worst game ever. Bad games exist and if you play a bad
game and then play DA2 you'll see it's good points. But that's just me
and i feel ME3 will be a much better game overall than DA2. And if you
want to play Bioware's worst RPG i'd go for Jade Empire. But of course
nobody will say that because they look at that game through rose tinted
specs of nostalgia.

The things people are complaining about with
ME3 so far are kind of silly. The endings well the ending most of them
wanted was silly and unrealistic anyway. Happily ever after endings are
always pointless and we already got that in DAO and since ME3 is already
borrowing ideas from DAO i'd rarther not they borrow the ending too.

Also
the dialogue personally i found scenes flowed a lot better and added
that movie look that the previous two games are going for. All that
start stop in conversations isn't needed for all conversations and
especially in scenes where a lot is going on. Yes there is some auto
dialogue but it keeps things going there is a lot less silence in this
game from Shepard and i think it improves the atmosphere.

You
also talk about the RPG elements there are far more RPG elements
implemented in ME3 than their were in ME2 a game which you actually
defend which was more of a "CoD style shooter" than ME3 which brings
back elements from ME1 people like. Adding in some extra dialogue does
not make it less of an RPG. Adding in better skill trees, weapons mods
and balancing powers with weight of equipment meaning you have to think
tactically about what you use makes it more of an RPG than ME2.

Another
complaint i see a lot is about the kid at the start of the game and the
"forced emotion" which amusingly is the opposite of ****ing about the
DA2 demo where people said Hawke was showing no emotion to their sibling
dying. So okay now we have a new game and Shepard reacting to a kid
dying is just "too emotional" *rolls eyes* It doesnt matter what they do
people will complain even if it contradicts their complaints about the
previous game.

So anyway no i don't think whining about ME3 will
change a thing for Bioware in future but i am sure that come the next
game people will be making complaints. It's been the norm for years now
ever since Bioware moved to consoles and stopped being exclusive to PC
they have been "pandering to the kiddy gamers/CoD crowd and dumbing
down"

Thank you for putting it more eloquently than I  ever could.

Hmm another one. Ok, now im starting to worry!     :?

Modifié par Jacen987, 05 mars 2012 - 03:09 .

[Meltemph]

Seker666 wrote...

Unato wrote...

I remember NWN was meant to be Bioware's downfall

I was to young when that game came out to care about forums but people hated on that game? it was one of my favorite when I was young.

Heh, ya, Bioware forums have always had its rather large share of chicken littles(which imo, is more of a compliment to the company).