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Could ME3 be Bioware's undoing?


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#76
Il Divo

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Unato wrote...

ppl also wanted BGIII or another xpack or something like that. regardless these topics we've been seeing for months (including this one) is nothing new. people will always rage about missing features, the story, graphics animations, not being given a pony etc

quite a few criticism are very well written (imo) but 9/10 they are dwarfed by the flood of "BIOWARE Y U NO GIMME WHAT I WANT"

as I said yes ME3 will be Bioware's downfall just as CNC Generals and DA3 and ME4 5 6  9 and #567 will also be Bioware's downfall.


Meh, a BG3 would never have worked, though I suppose we could call Throne of Bhaal BG3. The storyline itself had concluded, and as great an experience as I consider it, I'm pretty sure any subsequent efforts to duplicate would have fallen extremely short, which DA:O and DA2 have already suffered from, due to the "spiritual successor" buildup.

Modifié par Il Divo, 05 mars 2012 - 03:32 .


#77
bennyjammin79

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It's doubtful.

#78
YankeeBravo

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jreezy wrote...

Wake me up when dialogue choice equates to something being an "RPG".


Are you kidding me?

Name one RPG that didn't have a dialogue system.

Depth of dialogue and choice have been two of the basic hallmarks of an RPG for a very, very long time.

#79
Il Divo

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YankeeBravo wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Wake me up when dialogue choice equates to something being an "RPG".


Are you kidding me?

Name one RPG that didn't have a dialogue system.

Depth of dialogue and choice have been two of the basic hallmarks of an RPG for a very, very long time.


That's really not going to get us anywhere. You pretty much just asked him for his definition of RPG. If he gives you Diablo, you can say it's just a dungeon crawler. If he gives you Final Fantasy, you can say it's not an RPG.

Personally I think the term is worthless to define. Who cares about the word? People want interactive dialogue, so let's just talk about interactive dialogue. The RPG debate just makes things unnecessarily complicated.

#80
AlanC9

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Unato wrote...

 

Il Divo wrote...

If I recall, Bioware pretty much admitted that the single-player campaign was nothing more than a template for the multiplayer. As a recreation of the party-based DnD system, it was great online. As an exploration of interactive narrative, the SP was pretty weak.


ppl also wanted BGIII or another xpack or something like that. regardless these topics we've been seeing for months (including this one) is nothing new. people will always rage about missing features, the story, graphics animations, not being given a pony etc

quite a few criticism are very well written (imo) but 9/10 they are dwarfed by the flood of "BIOWARE Y U NO GIMME WHAT I WANT"

as I said yes ME3 will be Bioware's downfall just as CNC Generals and DA3 and ME4 5 6  9 and #567 will also be Bioware's downfall.


Exactly. Every new game is Bio's downfall. I started hanging out on Bio's boards a bit before NWN came out. Every single one of their new games was a terrible betrayal of the fanbase.

#81
william.munden

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well lets just hope so hey

#82
Mr.House

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The bsn has two passions, as said by a friend. To ship and to b*tch.

#83
Epic777

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Cainne Chapel wrote...

I swear every game that has any amount of "Hype" will be called out by people who see things negatively about it. I swear every game will have its "Sky is falling" people on the forums.

It just goes with the territory.

As for me, I can honestly say I've NEVER bought a game I haven't enjoyed or at least gotten $60 worth of fun out of.

Granted I also buy very few games now a days, and rent things i'm iffy on, but I can usually tell if I'll enjoy something or not. and I thoroughly enjoy ME, thus why I'm here.

If I dont enjoy a game I usually hardly ever bother to join the community.



There has to be hype with any product period. 

#84
Il Divo

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AlanC9 wrote...

Exactly. Every new game is Bio's downfall. I started hanging out on Bio's boards a bit before NWN came out. Every single one of their new games was a terrible betrayal of the fanbase.


Which is inevitable, given how different each Bioware game is from its predecessors. Neverwinter Nights to Jade Empire...interactive dialogue aside, how much do they have in common? 

#85
Monochrome Wench

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As a massive fan of the NWN series (I still run a NWN pw server), I have to say that NWN Original Campaign as a game by itself was awful. Single player was never a focus of games original development and it showed. The expansion packs on the other hand was a significant improvment on the single player game as they were intended to be better single player experiences.

the multiplayer part of the game on the other hand had a life of its own and took off in a direction that Bioware never anticipated (persisent worlds). To me, its the community that made NWN a great game. Of course Bioware made the game to be a heavily modifyable multiplayable game allowing the community could do anything they wanted, and that is what happened.

#86
spirosz

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No, to me it brings in the best of both worlds, BUT there are major issues - the auto dialogue/face import issues/ and endings (which I still have yet to know, just going off majority of complaints).

The combat feels great, the customization with weapons/armor feels like a great balance of ME1 and ME2. In my opinion, the story looks great, from what I've seen from the launch trailer. Overall I believe it will be one of their best games in certain aspects, but I believe certain things will (and has) anger a lot of existing fans. I can see this game being a commercial success, but I don't know how the core audience is going to react, for me - it might be their last game I purchase depending on a few issues I posted above. Plus, the way they've handled certain issues and rumors over the past two years hasn't helped my outlook on them. I'd respect them more if they came out and stated why they can or cannot deal with certain problems (I'm relating to the face import issue for me) instead of waiting for gaming websites to address the rumors or just not addressing them at all. ****, I've defended Bioware since ME1 about how they're approaching their series, but a lot of things have been popping up in the past week that has altered my outlook on them, so again this game will probably be my last, but it won't affect Bioware because I'm just one fan, compared to thousands they will gain.

#87
AlanC9

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JE and NWN ... beats me. Maybe "narrative"? But that's awfully vague.

#88
Il Divo

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AlanC9 wrote...

JE and NWN ... beats me. Maybe "narrative"? But that's awfully vague.


Exactly. Posted Image

#89
Brownfinger

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DOooom. DOOOOOOOM!

I'd be willing to bet that the uncompromising nay sayers have about as much of an impact on Bioware's future prosperity as a high velocity fart in their mailroom. They're doing just fine, dude.

Susan, send in the next troll, please.

#90
inzesky

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Unato wrote...

I remember NWN was meant to be Bioware's downfall... then DA2... and now ME3?

well I'm calling C&C Generals 2 will be Bioware's next downfall, yep BW will just keep on falling


Don't forget KOTOR 1 AKA how Bioware ruined RPGs because of consoles and the advent of 3D... ahh... the old Bioware forums and how they were pretty much the same as they are now in the BSN.

Seker666 wrote...

I was to young when that game came out to care about forums but people hated on that game? it was one of my favorite when I was young.


People were expecting another Baldur's Gate. Also the whole Aribeth armor debacle, also low emphasis on storytelling in the Original campaign. Mostly ratified by the second expansion.

#91
Guest_Jackumzz_*

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Not even close.

Mr.House wrote...

The bsn has two passions, as said by a friend. To ship and to b*tch.



#92
Mr_Dots

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YankeeBravo wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Wake me up when dialogue choice equates to something being an "RPG".


Are you kidding me?

Name one RPG that didn't have a dialogue system.

Depth of dialogue and choice have been two of the basic hallmarks of an RPG for a very, very long time.


As already stated, Final Fantasy and any number of japanese RPG's.

#93
Nathan Redgrave

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Except that whatever grievances we on the forums may or may not have with the ratio of dialogue choice to auto-dialogue, or with the endings, Mass Effect 3 doesn't outright "suck." That's a different matter entirely from whether or not it lives up to fanbase expectations. So the point is moot.

#94
suprhomre

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The game is not out yet and already people are starting to complain. So far what I have seen is far better then I have expected. What is ruining the game are all the people constantly nagging about the lost of RPG element. I might be in minority when I say this I like DA2. (The first and second act was really good the ending not so.)

#95
lucidfox

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DownClown wrote...

I honestly don't see how people can get so offended at a game as not to buy it, even before it comes out.

...

#96
Dragoonlordz

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Bioware will be fine. It's just they might be heading in the direction of other peoples preferences instead of my own. As their games appeal to others instead of myself then I will back away and buy other titles, such is life. Other people will come in and fill my spot who enjoy the direction they head more so. This was evident from ME2 when I did not enjoy the direction of quite a few elements of the game. Others were listened too and I was ignored (maybe more accurately they disagreed with me) in sense what they did made others happier than myself.

DA2 went in a direction I really did not like but other people liked it, however it had some flaws even the new fans could not ignore on top of the flaws I saw and felt, which greatly decreased any enjoyment I had with it so it suffered huge landslide compared to previous titles for many reasons and not just appealing to other people instead of myself. It however did have less development time and I don't know the cost of the project, so it probably made them enough to pass into profit fine.

Bioware themselves the doctors said they do not make RPG's and it is beginning to show more so every passing title of all franchises. But defining RPG for each person is subjective. They just said they will make stories, as Frozen stated ME3 is not actually advertised as an RPG anymore so it would appear the crowd wish to please is not the same as myself who came in during the earlier days even though some from such days also enjoy their new direction it is worth mentioning.

The advent of heading towards MMO's and C&C titles furthers this belief that they no longer will make titles that appeal to me at present after ME3, though this may change in future, I would not write them off by any means as they have shown in the past they can (even if might not anymore) make titles that I enjoy. In the end it is a business and they are in it to make money. ME3 I would buy even if is not a title might have bought otherwise if say had no RPG elements and is not an RPG in itself because I wish to finish the trilogy regardless.

Life will go on others will buy their titles, I might buy some if they ever make something I want and in meantime will buy alternative products. Just the way the cookie crumbles it's not exactly the end of the world and common sense shouldn't be needed to know as a business Bioware are doing okay overall with EA's backing they have expanded a lot. I just hope after ME3 they make something I might be interested in, short term I can't see that happening but maybe long term fingers crossed since I know they have the ability to make games I like even if they don't want to make them right now.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 05 mars 2012 - 03:59 .


#97
Cainne Chapel

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YankeeBravo wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Wake me up when dialogue choice equates to something being an "RPG".


Are you kidding me?

Name one RPG that didn't have a dialogue system.

Depth of dialogue and choice have been two of the basic hallmarks of an RPG for a very, very long time.


Yankee... Dont know how to break this too ya, but thats an argument you're NOT going to win.

I've been playing the Video Game equivalent of "RPGs" since Dragon Warrior on NES... 'interactive" dialogue and Choice has only been a relatively recent deal honestly.  and there are STILL games labeled RPGs (Specifically JRPGS) that DONT give you much choice other than what the storyline has laid out.

So No I wouldnt say those are hallmarks of an RPG for a very very long time.

Which brings us back to the "what is and isn't an RPG" debate which no one and i mean NO ONE ever wins.

#98
Hunter of Legends

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Dragoonlordz wrote...

Bioware will be fine. It's just they might be heading in the direction of other peoples preferences instead of my own.


This.

I had to do this with a developer I never thought I'd have to:crying:

#99
AlanC9

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Hell, some early RPGs didn't even have dialogue, let alone choices.

#100
Dragoonlordz

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Hunter of Legends wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Bioware will be fine. It's just they might be heading in the direction of other peoples preferences instead of my own.


This.

I had to do this with a developer I never thought I'd have to:crying:


I have had to do it so often over the decades it's painful to remember. However on the plus side some of those developers are heading back my way even though it has taken over 20 years in some cases.:P

Others however still remain making games these days for other people instead of myself even after 30+ years.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 05 mars 2012 - 04:08 .