69 réponses à ce sujet

[whykikyouwhy]

I wouldn't mind encountering the OGB at some point, but I'm less inclined to play him/her.

The assumption is that the OGB will become an entity of some immense and mysterious power - how would that translate into the overall narrative if the player could control him/her? As a hero dropped into unsual or dire circumstances, it's a lot easier to take up the mantle and inject oneself into the Dragon Age world. A lot of information is beyond our scope as the PC - our view of Thedas and beyond only extends so far. But as a being that has the soul of an Old God and is being raised by a powerful mage/daughter of another mysterious entity? That speaks to a tremendous amount of plot information that we would have to be delivered as a given - which isn't to say that it can't be done, and role-playing can't be achieved (maybe there would be a long intro segment to any OGB-playable game). I guess I would just prefer playing someone a bit less (potentially) omnipotent.

[Fast Jimmy]

Gaider said in a pretty recent interview that they aren't even sure if they are going to bring the OGB into the story at all since some players didn't perform the DR and, if they do, they are going to have trouble making it something other than just a passing, small reference.

So to me, that says there ain't no way the OGB is going to be a PC. No way, no how.

EDIT:

Also, there is nothing to suggest that the Old God's were omniscient in the least. The Arch Demon could connect mentally with darkspawn or those with the taint, but the Old Gods were far from all-knowing, seeing as how they were tricked and trapped underground (either by the Maker, the elven gods or some crazy lucky humans, depending on which lore or idea you want to buy into) and they led their most devoted followers right into the Black City, which ultimately led to their own corruption and deaths (when the Blights are ended).

So, while ancient power and wisdom might come into play, I don't think the Old Gods at their peak had omnipresence or knowledge. And I think the spirit of one trapped in a child (or young adult) would not be acclimated enough to have any all knowing powers.

Point being, they could make the OGB a believable deity PC (possibly like the Bhaalspawn of BG 1+2) but, as I stated above, the writers/designers seem to indicate they would NOT.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 05 mars 2012 - 01:02 .

[thats1evildude]

I doubt you'll ever play as the OGB, given he may not exist and his gender has been confirmed as male. However, I predict that a son of Morrigan may be either a future NPC or enemy. If the dark bargain was made, then he's the OGB and has funky magical powers. If not, then he's still the son of a Witch of the Wilds and thus shares her funky magical powers. Same character, slightly different background. The distinction need not even be acknowledged.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 05 mars 2012 - 07:47 .

[Augustei]

Besides the point you mentioned that not everybody did the DR, Making the OGB the protagonist would mean that character customisation options would need to be removed: Specifically playing a female character, since the OGB is confirmed to be a boy.

if he is ever in the game it would probably be something similar to Sophia Drydens role in DA2

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 05 mars 2012 - 07:46 .

[svenus97]

Is it ever explicitly mentioned that the OGB is a being of immense power ? For all we know it's just a regular child with a special soul.

[thats1evildude]

svenus97 wrote...

Is it ever explicitly mentioned that the OGB is a being of immense power ? For all we know it's just a regular child with a special soul.

No reference is made to the child possessing special powers. It could simply be an ordinary little boy.

[Megaton_Hope]

One thing about Morrigan's ritual...since the PC, Alistair, or Loghain would all be equally useful for it, I don't see why she couldn't as easily fly to Weisshaupt and then back into range of the Archdemon's death throes. Since all she needs is somebody who's been tainted comparatively recently, it is assumed through the Joining. (Actually, it stands to reason that any source of taint might do, but whatever.)

Lookin' for another candidate seemed the only particularly reasonable explanation for her to leave forever after you DON'T complete her ritual.

[thats1evildude]

Megaton_Hope wrote...

One thing about Morrigan's ritual...since the PC, Alistair, or Loghain would all be equally useful for it, I don't see why she couldn't as easily fly to Weisshaupt and then back into range of the Archdemon's death throes. Since all she needs is somebody who's been tainted comparatively recently, it is assumed through the Joining. (Actually, it stands to reason that any source of taint might do, but whatever.)

You're talking about flying to another country, finding a recent recruit to the Wardens, shacking up with him and then flying back to Ferelden in the space of a day or two. I don't think that's feasible.

Megaton_Hope wrote...

Lookin' for another candidate seemed the only particularly reasonable explanation for her to leave forever after you DON'T complete her ritual.

She's offended that you didn't take her offer and, in the case of a friend or lover, doesn't want to watch you die.

[nightscrawl]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

I wouldn't mind encountering the OGB at some point, but I'm less inclined to play him/her.

The assumption is that the OGB will become an entity of some immense and mysterious power - how would that translate into the overall narrative if the player could control him/her? As a hero dropped into unsual or dire circumstances, it's a lot easier to take up the mantle and inject oneself into the Dragon Age world. A lot of information is beyond our scope as the PC - our view of Thedas and beyond only extends so far. But as a being that has the soul of an Old God and is being raised by a powerful mage/daughter of another mysterious entity? That speaks to a tremendous amount of plot information that we would have to be delivered as a given - which isn't to say that it can't be done, and role-playing can't be achieved (maybe there would be a long intro segment to any OGB-playable game). I guess I would just prefer playing someone a bit less (potentially) omnipotent.

I agree with this 100%.

I also think it relies too heavily on someone already being really familiar with the series and the "origins" of that particular character. It's a barrier to bringing in new players with a mid-series game, which already has that strike against it as a mid-series game. As such, they would have to provide a tremendous amount of information on said character that would seem largely redundant to most of the people coming from DAO.

For comparison, DA2 was really new-player friendly. You didn't have to know anything about Thedas, The Blight, darkspawn, or the mage/templar issues as they were presented in DAO in order to get a good story experience out of DA2, since all of the relevant information is presented in that game.

[cJohnOne]

Oh come on who wouldn't want to be the old god baby or have the old god baby as a companion!

It's so obvious that I doubt it will happen though. Writers are so contrary. Ha, ha.

[Megaton_Hope]

thats1evildude wrote...

Megaton_Hope wrote...

One thing about Morrigan's ritual...since the PC, Alistair, or Loghain would all be equally useful for it, I don't see why she couldn't as easily fly to Weisshaupt and then back into range of the Archdemon's death throes. Since all she needs is somebody who's been tainted comparatively recently, it is assumed through the Joining. (Actually, it stands to reason that any source of taint might do, but whatever.)

You're talking about flying to another country, finding a recent recruit to the Wardens, shacking up with him and then flying back to Ferelden in the space of a day or two. I don't think that's feasible.

Flight is quite speedy, as a means of traversing long distances. She's no jumbo jet, but there are species of hawk or falcon that can easily exceed the speed of a fast car with minimum effort by coasting on updrafts. And unlike the army marching from Redcliffe to Denerim, which I guarantee you did not force-march for a day and arrive at their destination, she doesn't have to stop and rest or round up stragglers.

Gettin' some raw recruit to jump her bones in the short time she'd have available might be a trick, but she IS kind of a beautiful woman, so just making the offer might work for almost anybody but Alistair.

She's offended that you didn't take her offer and, in the case of a friend or lover, doesn't want to watch you die.

That last seems an odd motivation, what with abandoning me to fight an army of poisonous monsters and its all-powerfuland nigh-immortal god-chief. I mean, sure, if I WIN that battle I might die, but that's quite an if. At least if she sticks around I stand a better chance of dying after completing my mission as a Warden.

[thats1evildude]

Megaton_Hope wrote...

Flight is quite speedy, as a means of traversing long distances. She's no jumbo jet, but there are species of hawk or falcon that can easily exceed the speed of a fast car with minimum effort by coasting on updrafts.

The fastest bird on Earth is the peregrine falcon, and it can reach speeds of up to 300 kilometres per hour. But that's when diving. Morrigan can't "dive" across the Waking Sea to the Free Marches and she can't "dive" all the way to Orlais. Even as a bird, you're talking about a journey that lasts days, not hours.

Megaton_Hope wrote...

Gettin' some raw recruit to jump her bones in the short time she'd have available might be a trick, but she IS kind of a beautiful woman, so just making the offer might work for almost anybody but Alistair.

It's not simply the convincing that's the problem, it's the finding. It's not like there are recent recruits to the Grey Wardens standing on every street corner waiting for some hot witch to come along and jump their bones as part of a magical sex rite.

Megaton_Hope wrote...

That last seems an odd motivation, what with abandoning me to fight an army of poisonous monsters and its
all-powerfuland nigh-immortal god-chief. I mean, sure, if I WIN that battle I might die, but that's quite an if. At least if she sticks around I stand a better chance of dying after completing my mission as a Warden.

It's not an "if". A Warden must die to slay the Archdemon. The Dark Ritual is the only way out of paying that price.
If you refuse Morrigan's offer, you all but tell her that you are willing to die to end the Blight, even if your intention is to sacrifice a teammate in your place.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 08 mars 2012 - 03:49 .

[thats1evildude]

Jasmine96 wrote...

although I'm all in favor of Morrigan somehow of doing the ritual anyway you guys forgot that if she had done it the warden would be alive

As would Alistair/Loghain. Excellent point.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 08 mars 2012 - 03:55 .

[TEWR]

There's absolutely nothing limiting Morrigan from having acquired the Old God's soul through some other magical method that took far longer than the DR would've.

The DR could've been the quickest way to acquire it, but not the only way.

If Morrigan used some other method, it could easily preserve the choice of "Warden dies". She would've acquired it after the fact.

I find it absurd that Flemeth would've sent Morrigan with the Warden with only one way of getting the Old God's soul. Flemeth was intent on this being Morrigan's goal. She's not about to risk it all on the hopes that the Warden will just say yes.

I also don't find it believable that Morrigan would just give up on her goal because the Warden said "No" in a Sten voice.

[TEWR]

The fastest bird on Earth is the peregrine falcon, and it can reach speeds of up to 300 kilometres per hour. But that's when diving. Morrigan can't "dive" across the Waking Sea to the Free Marches and she can't "dive" all the way to Orlais. Even as a bird, you're talking about a journey that lasts days, not hours.

I'm not quite so sure it's as impossible as it makes it out to be. Orlais is on the border of Ferelden -- as are a bunch of Wardens as Riordan stated -- and she was in Redcliffe Castle at the time of the proposal for the DR.

It wouldn't take her too long to get to the border. Arl Eamon -- or Anora. Can't recall -- says that it takes 2 days just to get the army to Denerim. Morrigan had 2 days and a fair number of hours added on to that.

Still, I would prefer she did some other method after the Archdemon's/Warden's death that still allowed the choice to exist -- meaning Warden = Dead -- while giving her the OGB, as I stated in my above post.

You're talking about flying to another country, finding a recent recruit to the Wardens, shacking up with him and then flying back to Ferelden in the space of a day or two. I don't think that's feasible.

There's actually never been a stated limit for how far Morrigan has to be from the Archdemon. The farthest she can be is at the City Gates and the Warden will still live.

She said the Old God's soul will seek out the child like a beacon. This pretty much says she could be anywhere and she'd get zapped with an OGB child if she had done the ritual.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 08 mars 2012 - 04:34 .

[TEWR]

Regarding playing as the OGB though, no thanks.

[thats1evildude]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I find it absurd that Flemeth would've sent Morrigan with the Warden with only one way of getting the Old God's soul. Flemeth was intent on this being Morrigan's goal. She's not about to risk it all on the hopes that the Warden will just say yes.

Have you considered the possibility that the Dark Ritual was the ONLY way of capturing the essence of the Old God?

And if it wasn't, then why bother with the Dark Ritual at all? She went to a lot of effort to set up this plan. If there was another way of capturing Urthemiel's essence that didn't require the Warden's consent, why not just do it?

The flaw in your logic is that you believe Flemeth needed to create the OGB to further her plans. Based on what Morrigan said in Witch Hunt, however, the child was only a means to an end — "a herald for what is to come." That says to me that the child was important to Flemeth's grand scheme but not absolutely necessary. Her sights are set on something much larger than simply creating the OGB.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I also don't find it believable that Morrigan would just give up on her goal because the Warden said "No" in a Sten voice.

And what else could Morrigan do in that situation? The Warden isn't just asking you to have sex with her; she's asking you to participate in a magical sex rite. Consent is pretty much mandatory.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

There's actually never been a stated limit for how far Morrigan has to be from the Archdemon. The farthest she can be is at the City Gates and the Warden will still live.

She said the Old God's soul will seek out the child like a beacon. This pretty much says she could be anywhere and she'd get zapped with an OGB child if she had done the ritual.

Ugh, whatever. Even if proximity is not an object, there's still no way in hell that she could fly to another country, track down a recent recruit to the Wardens and convince them to participate in a magical sex rite in the day or two it takes for the army to march on Denerim.

Check your map of Thedas again and you'll see there's quite a gap between Orlais proper and Ferelden. And Riordan only said the Wardens were turned away at the border; he didn't say they were camped out there, waiting to see what happened with the Blight. They likely returned to Val Royeaux or wherever they marched from.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 08 mars 2012 - 09:11 .

[Koire]

There is no OGB in my canon, so: no, please. I don't want to hear anything about the OGB in DA3. Surely the writers can use him in the plot if they wish to, but it would enrage me ~ in the same way as brining Anders back in DA3 would enrage somebody who killed him)

I have no issues with the OGB featured in some way as long as there is none if I import my saves, though.

Modifié par Koire, 08 mars 2012 - 08:16 .

[TEWR]

thats1evildude wrote...

Have you considered the possibility that the Dark Ritual was the ONLY way of capturing the essence of the Old God?

And if it wasn't, then why bother with the Dark Ritual at all? She went to a lot of effort to set up this plan. If there was another way of capturing Urthemiel's essence that didn't require the Warden's consent, why not just do it?

The flaw in your logic is that you believe Flemeth needed to create the OGB to further her plans. Based on what Morrigan said in Witch Hunt, however, the child was only a means to an end — "a herald for what is to come." That says to me that the child was important to Flemeth's grand scheme but not absolutely necessary. Her sights are set on something much larger than simply creating the OGB.

I addressed the issue of "Why do the DR at all?" already. It could be that it was the quickest way to obtain the soul, but not the only way.

Morrigan would propose it for two reasons: 1) Doing so would ensure her friend/lover would live through the final battle and 2) she wouldn't have to worry about some longer ritual that would take a longer amount of time.

The other method might not work until after the Archdemon is dead or would take far too long to prepare compared to having some magic sexytime with a Warden.

As for Flemeth, it may not be necessary for her plans but I doubt Flemeth wouldn't give Morrigan various methods to acquire the soul. If it's important to her -- even if it's not a necessary importance -- she'd want to exhaust all methods that would allow her to acquire it.

And what else could Morrigan do in that situation? The Warden isn't just asking you to have sex with her; she's asking you to participate in a magical sex rite. Consent is pretty much mandatory.

I don't mean that she would rape the Warden, but that because the Warden said no I don't think she just goes "Damn! No OGB for me! You win Warden, I'll give up".

This is all assuming the DR is not the only way to acquire the Old God's soul. Yes, it very well could be the only way, but if the devs want to both preserve choice and deal with the issue of the OGB appropriately instead of some pathetic one-line codex or dialogue, then they should go along with this general idea.

That idea being, "Hey, Morrigan could've acquired the soul in some way after the Warden perished."

Check your map of Thedas again and you'll see there's quite a gap between Orlais proper and Ferelden. And Riordan only said the Wardens were turned away at the border; he didn't say they were camped out there, waiting to see what happened with the Blight. They likely returned to Val Royeaux or wherever they marched from.

Actually, he did say they were waiting at the border. He said they were there waiting to stop the Archdemon if Ferelden was too foolish to save itself.

Jasmine96 wrote...

But the old god's soul was destroyed with the warden if the DR wasn't already done. I'd like there to be a possibility for Morrigan to have had the baby anyway but it would have to be another god not Urthemiel

From what I understand, Urthemiel appears in Asunder.