117 réponses à ce sujet

[Aesieru]

 I've always been the odd one out and tried to defend BioWare's actions regardless of how much sense or not it made to me or others, in fact, I'd look into their logic just to see if it did make sense, that's why I contributed so much on the Technological Singularity and even in ME' 1 and 2's errors and yes, even DA and before that...

I've been a loyal BioWare fan and they are the people who made KotOR the first RPG I played (thinking I bought a multiplayer hack and slash Star Wars game when I was that young) that surprised me and kept me into the genre.

I play all the games out these days, but my place is RPG's with story, and I loved the Sci-Fi environment... I wondered what ME3 would hold and after seeing the voice actor reveal trailer about how great this story game was I was even more excited.

Anyway, after new information for me has come to light...

These are the things I have now learned about this game:

Automatic dialog choices account for at least half of the game.
Paragon / Renegade is no longer a possibility but an absolute necessity in regards to choice.
Investigation and deeper character dialog is no longer present.
Character - Character interactions are reduced.
Atmospheric construction of locations is reduced.
Environmental graphic scenes are lower.
Combat-based gameplay is the new priority.
Skill-trees are set up to be similar to other combat-based games, not an RPG.
Endings are dismissive and while debatably logical, not satisfying.
Playthrough time of game is an est. 28 hours full, no longer 40.
Numerous issues from Dragon Age 2 (The FIRST BioWare game I ever hated) are transferred over.
Entire graphical redo's which destroy immersion of previous games in regards to character appearances and voices.

BioWare you are the only company that if they released something I bought it without thinking, not because I was a mindless drone, but because I knew you wouldn't let me down, and if you did, there'd be a ton of saving graces.

Depending on how I receive this game, I may never log in on this community again, and I feel that many others will follow the same path.

I hope you prove us wrong, but I can't defend you anymore.

[Grand Wazoo]

It is just mind-boggling to see a company that released BG2 release something like DA2

[AllThatJazz]

 Fair enough, OP. Though a guy over on the NeoGAF forums posted a while ago that his recently finished playthrough of ME3 took him dead on 40 hours. I can't comment on the rest of the stuff as I haven't played the game yet. It's worth reading around that thread, there are a couple of people who've played the game already and are answering non-spoilery questions. Maybe they can shed some light on your worries

http://www.neogaf.co...=464777&page=89

Modifié par AllThatJazz, 05 mars 2012 - 02:50 .

[Capeo]

I've resigned myself to the endings at this point but if the auto dialog is as prevalent as people currently playing are saying it is, then, well, no more BW for me. I just don't understand what they'd be thinking if they did that.

[Aesieru]

AllThatJazz wrote...

 Fair enough, OP. Though a guy over on the NeoGAF forums posted a while ago that his recently finished playthrough of ME3 took him dead on 40 hours. I can't comment on the rest of the stuff as I haven't played the game yet.

http://www.neogaf.co...=464777&page=89

Xio did everything and it took him 28 hours, the time is acceptable if the other changes aren't there, but we have too many factors now to really say that BioWare hasn't changed, even I have to accept it.

I was able to give BioWare the benefit of the doubt with Dragon Age 2, even though they never apologized and never accepted responsibility, I figured they knew it was a mistake and just didn't want to ruin their reputation by admitting they failed.

But I was giving them a 2nd chance...

Modifié par Aesieru, 05 mars 2012 - 02:50 .

[GBGriffin]

I have to apologize to you, Aesieru. I think our last interaction didn't go over so well, and that was me just upset and not thinking clearly. I hope you understand, and, really, I respect you for posting this.

I personally have moved slightly past the ending issues (a combination of the possibility of it being bugged and headcanoning the rest) and onto the more glaring design issues you mentioned above. It's truly a shame that, endings aside, they made some poor design choices/oversights and could have really done so much more.

It's a shame. I don't think I'll be as thoroughly disappointed as I thought I'd be a few days ago, but I certainly don't think I'll be as impressed as I would have been if they'd gotten more things right.

[XOEmma]

First bad thing that Bioware has done in their lifetime is not doing KoTOR 2..Other ones they did wrong where just the icing on the cake.

[Bleachrude]

28 hrs versus 40 hours is a HUGE difference in time...Given that both of these posters have played the previous ME, I would expect a lot closer time frame than this...

[Aesieru]

GBGriffin wrote...

I have to apologize to you, Aesieru. I think our last interaction didn't go over so well, and that was me just upset and not thinking clearly. I hope you understand, and, really, I respect you for posting this.

I personally have moved slightly past the ending issues (a combination of the possibility of it being bugged and headcanoning the rest) and onto the more glaring design issues you mentioned above. It's truly a shame that, endings aside, they made some poor design choices/oversights and could have really done so much more.

It's a shame. I don't think I'll be as thoroughly disappointed as I thought I'd be a few days ago, but I certainly don't think I'll be as impressed as I would have been if they'd gotten more things right.

This isn't an issue with oversight, there's no feasibly way a company with the same designers that made all those great games could actually make a mistake and start making something so reduced. This is either EA tasking them, or their new direction.

I won't defend their actions unless they renew my lol "faith" in them.

I have no need to "headcanon" whatever that means the story, the endings will likely not bother me as much, it is the journey that they so often advertise that will bother me.

But... releasing 15+ trailers took a toll on their finances, I should of realized that'd also show their focus on action rather than the experience of a journey.

[Zenoctilles]

Was Xio playing on story difficulty? Perhaps that's how he managed to finish the game so quickly. He was speeding through the shooting.

[AllThatJazz]

Aesieru wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...

 Fair enough, OP. Though a guy over on the NeoGAF forums posted a while ago that his recently finished playthrough of ME3 took him dead on 40 hours. I can't comment on the rest of the stuff as I haven't played the game yet.

http://www.neogaf.co...=464777&page=89

Xio did everything and it took him 28 hours, the time is acceptable if the other changes aren't there, but we have too many factors now to really say that BioWare hasn't changed, even I have to accept it.

I was able to give BioWare the benefit of the doubt with Dragon Age 2, even though they never apologized and never accepted responsibility, I figured they knew it was a mistake and just didn't want to ruin their reputation by admitting they failed.

But I was giving them a 2nd chance...

Again, totally fair enough, but one guy's 28 hours appears to be another guy's 40 hours ... it just might be worth reading a few different reviews/opinions from people who've played the game to help clarify. But it's your call, and sorry you're sad 

[spnccarman]

To be fair I think the whole thing about character interaction being less is just a shortened way of not being able to talk to people when the game doesn't want you to without having to go into a conversation and then the dialogue tree just to have someone tell you that it's been "too soon since you last talked" or that they're too busy calibration stuff. It's not like the last two games let you talk to all your squad members for hours upon hours

[Aesieru]

Zenoctilles wrote...

Was Xio playing on story difficulty? Perhaps that's how he managed to finish the game so quickly. He was speeding through the shooting.

Potentially possible, but timeframe itself isn't my primary issue.

The pace that you put through the game doesn't really matter if there's not much to slow you down in regards to story and character development and other-paths.

spnccarman wrote...

To be fair I think the whole thing about character interaction being less is just a shortened way of not being able to talk to people when the game doesn't want you to without having to go into a conversation and then the dialogue tree just to have someone tell you that it's been "too soon since you last talked" or that they're too busy calibration stuff. It's not like the last two games let you talk to all your squad members for hours upon hours

 

I was well aware of how they gave Kasumi type responses after they had nothing to say to you, and I could accept that provided we did get to talk frequently. But dialog in conversations itself, the removal of the ability to investigate or get further details... and the huge focus on renegade or paragon instead of allowing other options and dialog choices as well? That's a lot to suddenly cut out.

Bleachrude wrote...

Time frame has always been weird...Takes me on insanity 30 hours to beat ME2 and lower difficulty was of course less (Veteran about 25).

Yet, there are many people that will say a NORMAL runthrough of ME2 was 35 hours+++.

Time frame is purely personal IMO.

 

True, which is why I don't place the highest priority on it. Things matter to me in totality. That being said, Hardcore makes me die so often on ME2 that it takes me 50 hours heh and I'm not bad at shooting games either.

Modifié par Aesieru, 05 mars 2012 - 02:58 .

[Bleachrude]

Time frame has always been weird...Takes me on insanity 30 hours to beat ME2 and lower difficulty was of course less (Veteran about 25).

Yet, there are many people that will say a NORMAL runthrough of ME2 was 35 hours+++.

Time frame is purely personal IMO.

[Baronesa]

Despite all the criticism... or more likely BECAUSE of the criticism, you can tell most people still care about the game/company.

If you care for something, you accept the good things, and try to correct the bad ones. I like Bioware, and I just hope they improve on the things that matter to me, and most of the people that came to love them for their RPG.

Accepting blindly the good and the bad, would only create "yes men" and eventually doom the company. Lumping all the good and bad on fatalistic "DOOOOOM" is also silly.

For those of us who still care and like Bioware, it is good to criticize and do so respectfully and presenting or points of view as clearly as we can.

[spnccarman]

Bleachrude wrote...

Time frame has always been weird...Takes me on insanity 30 hours to beat ME2 and lower difficulty was of course less (Veteran about 25).

Yet, there are many people that will say a NORMAL runthrough of ME2 was 35 hours+++.

Time frame is purely personal IMO.

my normal runthrough of ME was about 12/13 and my normal runthrough of ME2 was about 26 without DLC

[Bleachrude]

Aesieru wrote...

Zenoctilles wrote...

Was Xio playing on story difficulty? Perhaps that's how he managed to finish the game so quickly. He was speeding through the shooting.

Potentially possible, but timeframe itself isn't my primary issue.

The pace that you put through the game doesn't really matter if there's not much to slow you down in regards to story and character development and other-paths.

Er, that's not true at all...Dialogue and conversation and exploration are independent of the game but combat difficulty has a huge effect on the game...

The main thing which pumps up the time in ME2 is how difficult the combat was...Like I said, playing on Insanity with an adept, yeah, that could be 30 hours.

Soldier in Casual mode? Easily 20 hours...

[Aesieru]

Baronesa wrote...

Despite all the criticism... or more likely BECAUSE of the criticism, you can tell most people still care about the game/company.

If you care for something, you accept the good things, and try to correct the bad ones. I like Bioware, and I just hope they improve on the things that matter to me, and most of the people that came to love them for their RPG.

Accepting blindly the good and the bad, would only create "yes men" and eventually doom the company. Lumping all the good and bad on fatalistic "DOOOOOM" is also silly.

For those of us who still care and like Bioware, it is good to criticize and do so respectfully and presenting or points of view as clearly as we can.

Agreed, but that only works if we see our feedback actually affecting things.

It's not my feedback or anyone else's I know of that wanted the game to be less engaging in story or interactions.

They don't really seem to care about their community as far as I can tell from our responses.

Er, that's not true at all...Dialogue and conversation and exploration are independent of the game but combat difficulty has a huge effect on the game...

The main thing which pumps up the time in ME2 is how difficult the combat was...Like I said, playing on Insanity with an adept, yeah, that could be 30 hours.

Soldier in Casual mode? Easily 20 hours...

 

Veteran Paragon, 72.4 hours, 100% completion, 100% galaxy mining.

That's my first load I'll be bringing in. It wasn't cause I sucked at difficulty or because things went slow, it was because I explored the world and did everything.

Veteran Paragon, 42.1, 100% Completion, 100% Mako exploring.

That's my ME import for the ME2 save just above, and that was also not based on difficulty but on exploring the world and communicating and doing everything.

Modifié par Aesieru, 05 mars 2012 - 03:03 .

[SichoPhiend]

Very personal, I'm not at my home system to double check, but I think my Norm ME2 is at 40 hours, but I tend to take missions slowly.

[Bleachrude]

72 HOURS!!!!! (mouth open in shock)

How the hell could ME2 take you that long...I mined ever damn planet, had 100% completion did all the DLC (except for Arrival) and I was playing on insanity (true, with infiltrator arguably best class for insanity...) and I still was under 40 hours...

Where you actually playing the game or did you just leave the machine running? How is that possible!!??

[AllThatJazz]

Bleachrude wrote...

72 HOURS!!!!! (mouth open in shock)

How the hell could ME2 take you that long...I mined ever damn planet, had 100% completion did all the DLC (except for Arrival) and I was playing on insanity (true, with infiltrator arguably best class for insanity...) and I still was under 40 hours...

Where you actually playing the game or did you just leave the machine running? How is that possible!!??

I have to admit I'm currently on 69 hours in ME2, with a little bit of Arrival left to play. My longest playthrough yet. I suck at fighing on hardcore, mind you, so there have been a few battles *cough* collector ship* cough that I've had to replay a few times. I also never allow myself to use heavy weapond these days, too much of a victory through cheese. 

Modifié par AllThatJazz, 05 mars 2012 - 03:11 .

[Aesieru]

Bleachrude wrote...

72 HOURS!!!!! (mouth open in shock)

How the hell could ME2 take you that long...I mined ever damn planet, had 100% completion did all the DLC (except for Arrival) and I was playing on insanity (true, with infiltrator arguably best class for insanity...) and I still was under 40 hours...

Where you actually playing the game or did you just leave the machine running? How is that possible!!??

I explored everything, always went back to each planet to check out new stores after a major event, did everything, saw everything, mined every planet to Depleted, did all content, all N7 missions, all DLC, and it just kinda happened.

Hardcore would probably take me 50 hours again because I hate the difficulty imbalancing they do in the early part of it (you have so little accuracy with anything) and so little shields.

[Baronesa]

My first play on ME2, before all the DLC and just with Zaed and just a few more things, was around 30 hours doing everything... around 50 with all DLC... and that is counting the time of reading the lore, exploring as much as possible etc.

Hell my first Dragon Age play with only stone prisoner took me 103 hours xD I'm a little OCD regarding secondary missions and completion when playing RPG

[mireisen]

Maybe he watched through all the cutscenes?

Most Insanity players are on NG+ or another PT so they just "spacebar" themselves out? That's what I did and got around 40 after all is said and done.

[Aesieru]

mireisen wrote...

Maybe he watched through all the cutscenes?

Most Insanity players are on NG+ or another PT so they just "spacebar" themselves out? That's what I did and got around 40 after all is said and done.

Oh I never skip scenes in anything.