117 réponses à ce sujet

[Aesieru]

I don't think there are any good RPG designers left then... certainly not for Sci-Fi.

Is this the end of quality RPG's?

[leeboi2]

Aesieru wrote...

 I've always been the odd one out and tried to defend BioWare's actions regardless of how much sense or not it made to me or others, in fact, I'd look into their logic just to see if it did make sense, that's why I contributed so much on the Technological Singularity and even in ME' 1 and 2's errors and yes, even DA and before that...

I've been a loyal BioWare fan and they are the people who made KotOR the first RPG I played (thinking I bought a multiplayer hack and slash Star Wars game when I was that young) that surprised me and kept me into the genre.

I play all the games out these days, but my place is RPG's with story, and I loved the Sci-Fi environment... I wondered what ME3 would hold and after seeing the voice actor reveal trailer about how great this story game was I was even more excited.

Anyway, after new information for me has come to light...

These are the things I have now learned about this game:

Automatic dialog choices account for at least half of the game.
Paragon / Renegade is no longer a possibility but an absolute necessity in regards to choice.
Investigation and deeper character dialog is no longer present.
Character - Character interactions are reduced.
Atmospheric construction of locations is reduced.
Environmental graphic scenes are lower.
Combat-based gameplay is the new priority.
Skill-trees are set up to be similar to other combat-based games, not an RPG.
Endings are dismissive and while debatably logical, not satisfying.
Playthrough time of game is an est. 28 hours full, no longer 40.
Numerous issues from Dragon Age 2 (The FIRST BioWare game I ever hated) are transferred over.
Entire graphical redo's which destroy immersion of previous games in regards to character appearances and voices.

BioWare you are the only company that if they released something I bought it without thinking, not because I was a mindless drone, but because I knew you wouldn't let me down, and if you did, there'd be a ton of saving graces.

Depending on how I receive this game, I may never log in on this community again, and I feel that many others will follow the same path.

I hope you prove us wrong, but I can't defend you anymore.

Ahem, my first FULL ME2 playthrough took 25 hours...

[phoenixofthunder]

Ringo12 wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

Aesieru wrote...
This may be the last BioWare game I buy.

I got TOR but even that is beginning to fade on me... maybe every 4 months after some new content is there I'll resubscribe for a month.

TOR was a dishonor to the franchise. KOTOR III is forever cursed not to be developed.

I have never been more dissapointed at an MMO.

=RANT FOLLOWS= SORRY IF IT OFFENDS
I am luckly NOT disappointed with TOR.
I never played an MMO (besides DCUO) before TOR (which I like severely).

WARNING:
To those who are about  to make the fatal mistake let me tell you:
DO NOT even recomend for me to go play WoW. For I will NEVER install that idiocy on my computer!!! Reason: I SIMPLY HATE with a Vengance: ORCS!!!!!!:sick: :sick::sick: I would Nuke all of them if I could. I wil never install or play Skyrim. The world can burn first for all I care!!!!!!<_<

It seems to me that where all the flak comes from toward TOR is in the PvP area. I do not care about this (I will only PvE). Just give me my storyline and I am fine. I will do the repetive side quests first and save the storyline till it is the last thing per planet to do.... Simple. Once I reach the endgame it is time to do another class and take the evil or good route depending on which I took the first time.  Also be sure to note that IF an MMO is not SciFi I will in a heartbeat kick it to the curb, step on it, let the steam roller roll it, blast it with a machine gun, then I will finally NUKE it!!!!!!
=RANT ENDS=

Mox Ruuga wrote...

I think I saw a few "Investigate" options in some of the streams... but it is true there is too much non-prompted dialogue from Shep.

And the endings are indefensible.

However, I do like what I've seen of the gameplay, and might end up getting the game after all (despite having said otherwise in the past after I found out about the tri-color endings)... It will leave a sour taste, and will feel like a betrayal from Bioware, but screw it; it can't be as bad as DA2 at least...

So you are saying that there are three endings or a mix or renegade and paragon in the endings? 

[Aesieru]

leeboi2 wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

 I've always been the odd one out and tried to defend BioWare's actions regardless of how much sense or not it made to me or others, in fact, I'd look into their logic just to see if it did make sense, that's why I contributed so much on the Technological Singularity and even in ME' 1 and 2's errors and yes, even DA and before that...

I've been a loyal BioWare fan and they are the people who made KotOR the first RPG I played (thinking I bought a multiplayer hack and slash Star Wars game when I was that young) that surprised me and kept me into the genre.

I play all the games out these days, but my place is RPG's with story, and I loved the Sci-Fi environment... I wondered what ME3 would hold and after seeing the voice actor reveal trailer about how great this story game was I was even more excited.

Anyway, after new information for me has come to light...

These are the things I have now learned about this game:

Automatic dialog choices account for at least half of the game.
Paragon / Renegade is no longer a possibility but an absolute necessity in regards to choice.
Investigation and deeper character dialog is no longer present.
Character - Character interactions are reduced.
Atmospheric construction of locations is reduced.
Environmental graphic scenes are lower.
Combat-based gameplay is the new priority.
Skill-trees are set up to be similar to other combat-based games, not an RPG.
Endings are dismissive and while debatably logical, not satisfying.
Playthrough time of game is an est. 28 hours full, no longer 40.
Numerous issues from Dragon Age 2 (The FIRST BioWare game I ever hated) are transferred over.
Entire graphical redo's which destroy immersion of previous games in regards to character appearances and voices.

BioWare you are the only company that if they released something I bought it without thinking, not because I was a mindless drone, but because I knew you wouldn't let me down, and if you did, there'd be a ton of saving graces.

Depending on how I receive this game, I may never log in on this community again, and I feel that many others will follow the same path.

I hope you prove us wrong, but I can't defend you anymore.

Ahem, my first FULL ME2 playthrough took 25 hours...

I can never understand that, mine took 39.

[Aesieru]

phoenixofthunder wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

Aesieru wrote...
This may be the last BioWare game I buy.

I got TOR but even that is beginning to fade on me... maybe every 4 months after some new content is there I'll resubscribe for a month.

TOR was a dishonor to the franchise. KOTOR III is forever cursed not to be developed.

I have never been more dissapointed at an MMO.

=RANT FOLLOWS= SORRY IF IT OFFENDS
I am luckly NOT disappointed with TOR.
I never played an MMO (besides DCUO) before TOR (which I like severely).

WARNING:
To those who are about  to make the fatal mistake let me tell you:
DO NOT even recomend for me to go play WoW. For I will NEVER install that idiocy on my computer!!! Reason: I SIMPLY HATE with a Vengance: ORCS!!!!!!:sick: :sick::sick: I would Nuke all of them if I could. I wil never install or play Skyrim. The world can burn first for all I care!!!!!!<_<

It seems to me that where all the flak comes from toward TOR is in the PvP area. I do not care about this (I will only PvE). Just give me my storyline and I am fine. I will do the repetive side quests first and save the storyline till it is the last thing per planet to do.... Simple. Once I reach the endgame it is time to do another class and take the evil or good route depending on which I took the first time.  Also be sure to note that IF an MMO is not SciFi I will in a heartbeat kick it to the curb, step on it, let the steam roller roll it, blast it with a machine gun, then I will finally NUKE it!!!!!!
=RANT ENDS=

Mox Ruuga wrote...

I think I saw a few "Investigate" options in some of the streams... but it is true there is too much non-prompted dialogue from Shep.

And the endings are indefensible.

However, I do like what I've seen of the gameplay, and might end up getting the game after all (despite having said otherwise in the past after I found out about the tri-color endings)... It will leave a sour taste, and will feel like a betrayal from Bioware, but screw it; it can't be as bad as DA2 at least...

So you are saying that there are three endings or a mix or renegade and paragon in the endings? 

I won't spoil things for you, but you're in for a disappointment.

In any case, TOR is extremely repetitive sadly.

[phoenixofthunder]

Aesieru wrote...

I can never understand that, mine took 39.

My longest and newest ME2 Playthrough is at 33 hours and all I have done is Horizion and all the sidequests (scanning included).

[phoenixofthunder]

Aesieru wrote...

I won't spoil things for you, but you're in for a disappointment.

In any case, TOR is extremely repetitive sadly.

Repetitive is not bad for me I actually like the repetitive actions. That however may be just me. 
I know for a fact that there are seven endings to ME3. 

Modifié par phoenixofthunder, 05 mars 2012 - 04:45 .

[Solduri]

Aesieru wrote...

I don't think there are any good RPG designers left then... certainly not for Sci-Fi.

Is this the end of quality RPG's?

i like bethesda lol

as for bioware well i ****ing hated dragon age 2... ill reserve my judgement of mass effect 3 until i play it but it doesn't look like much of a "RPG" anymore

[Aesieru]

phoenixofthunder wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

I won't spoil things for you, but you're in for a disappointment.

In any case, TOR is extremely repetitive sadly.

Repetive is not bad for me I actually like the repetitive actions. That however may be just me. 
I know for a fact that there are seven endings to ME3. 

You don't know that there is really no difference to them other than 1 and that's maybe .5% different.

[MeanderingMind]

Aesieru wrote...

leeboi2 wrote...

Ahem, my first FULL ME2 playthrough took 25 hours...

I can never understand that, mine took 39.

I clocked at least 40h, probably nearing 60h if I remember correctly. Exploring everything is a major part, at least for me.

[Aesieru]

Solduri wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

I don't think there are any good RPG designers left then... certainly not for Sci-Fi.

Is this the end of quality RPG's?

i like bethesda lol

as for bioware well i ****ing hated dragon age 2... ill reserve my judgement of mass effect 3 until i play it but it doesn't look like much of a "RPG" anymore

Bethesda has the most bugs, made Skyrim whichr eally is the most repetitive thing I've played... and there's just honestly "too much" to really get into it unless you somehow get addicted which I did not. I've never really like their version of Open World, I did FO because it was kinda Sci-Fi Modern so I could force myself to.

[Harvoification]

Wait, so have investigation dialog options been completely removed?!

[Aesieru]

Harvoification wrote...

Wait, so have investigation dialog options been completely removed?!

I think we have about 10% of what we had in ME 2 and 1, basically.

[Solduri]

Aesieru wrote...

Solduri wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

I don't think there are any good RPG designers left then... certainly not for Sci-Fi.

Is this the end of quality RPG's?

i like bethesda lol

as for bioware well i ****ing hated dragon age 2... ill reserve my judgement of mass effect 3 until i play it but it doesn't look like much of a "RPG" anymore

Bethesda has the most bugs, made Skyrim whichr eally is the most repetitive thing I've played... and there's just honestly "too much" to really get into it unless you somehow get addicted which I did not. I've never really like their version of Open World, I did FO because it was kinda Sci-Fi Modern so I could force myself to.

bioware games have alot of bugs as well (see dragon age 2)

i still like bethesda and they dont do things like release day 1 dlc...
if bioware keeps pumping things like dragon age 2 and swtor out i really will stop buying their games which really hurts me to say seeing as ive played almost all of them since BG 

[RogueBot]

Aesieru wrote...

Investigation and deeper character dialog is no longer present.

Incredibly disappointing, if true. 

The lack of the "investigate" dialogue option was my biggest beef with TOR. There was no depth to conversations, everything was always moving forward. I excused it due to the fact that it was such huge game compared to singleplayer RPGs, but there's no excuse for this in ME3.

To me, this signifies a bigger change in Bioware's philosophy than anything you listed. 

Modifié par RogueBot, 05 mars 2012 - 04:55 .

[phoenixofthunder]

Aesieru wrote...

phoenixofthunder wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

I won't spoil things for you, but you're in for a disappointment.

In any case, TOR is extremely repetitive sadly.

Repetive is not bad for me I actually like the repetitive actions. That however may be just me. 
I know for a fact that there are seven endings to ME3. 

You don't know that there is really no difference to them other than 1 and that's maybe .5% different.

You mean Shepard being alive or him being R'd? (hopefully not revealing) Personally it does not matter to me what the endings are as long as they match the coded information that was extracted from the demo files (:ph34r:will say no more on that here on BSN:ph34r:). I could send to a PM to see if your information matches mine. But I guess we will all find out tomorrow.... though I will be waiting a while due to Origin. 
 

[Aesieru]

RogueBot wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Investigation and deeper character dialog is no longer present.

Incredibly disappointing, if true. 

The lack of the "investigate" dialogue option was my biggest beef with TOR. There was no depth to conversations, everything was always moving forwawrd. I excused it due to the fact that it was such huge game compared to singleplayer RPGs, but there's no excuse for this in ME3.

To me, this signifies a bigger change in Bioware's philosophy than anything you listed. 

I was always really excited for their atmosphere and continuity, the way things looked. Things are good but you can see that it really doesn't compare to Virmire's appearances anymore.

The story is also extremely important as are character - character relationships.

Dialog seems to have been reduced so that we have about 10% of what we'd normally have.

[Aesieru]

Solduri wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Solduri wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

I don't think there are any good RPG designers left then... certainly not for Sci-Fi.

Is this the end of quality RPG's?

i like bethesda lol

as for bioware well i ****ing hated dragon age 2... ill reserve my judgement of mass effect 3 until i play it but it doesn't look like much of a "RPG" anymore

Bethesda has the most bugs, made Skyrim whichr eally is the most repetitive thing I've played... and there's just honestly "too much" to really get into it unless you somehow get addicted which I did not. I've never really like their version of Open World, I did FO because it was kinda Sci-Fi Modern so I could force myself to.

bioware games have alot of bugs as well (see dragon age 2)

i still like bethesda and they dont do things like release day 1 dlc...
if bioware keeps pumping things like dragon age 2 and swtor out i really will stop buying their games which really hurts me to say seeing as ive played almost all of them since BG 

A lot of bugs for DA2, not many (some) for ME1 or M2 or DA:O, or those. (More for ME2)

---

Bethesda always has day 1 crashes, freezes, and bugs a plenty, and I just can't stand their repetition. I have Skyrim, but not past 2 hours with it for... months.

phoenixofthunder wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

phoenixofthunder wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

I won't spoil things for you, but you're in for a disappointment.

In any case, TOR is extremely repetitive sadly.

Repetive is not bad for me I actually like the repetitive actions. That however may be just me. 
I know for a fact that there are seven endings to ME3. 

You don't know that there is really no difference to them other than 1 and that's maybe .5% different.

You mean Shepard being alive or him being R'd? (hopefully not revealing) Personally it does not matter to me what the endings are as long as they match the coded information that was extracted from the demo files ([smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/ninja.png[/smilie]will say no more on that here on BSN[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/ninja.png[/smilie]). I could send to a PM to see if your information matches mine. But I guess we will all find out tomorrow.... though I will be waiting a while due to Origin. 
 

 

The beams change color, and current galactic civilization is pretty much destroyed. Sure, it could be rebuilt... in a LONG LONG time.

Modifié par Aesieru, 05 mars 2012 - 04:58 .

[phoenixofthunder]

RogueBot wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Investigation and deeper character dialog is no longer present.

Incredibly disappointing, if true. 

The lack of the "investigate" dialogue option was my biggest beef with TOR. There was no depth to conversations, everything was always moving forward. I excused it due to the fact that it was such huge game compared to singleplayer RPGs, but there's no excuse for this in ME3.

To me, this signifies a bigger change in Bioware's philosophy than anything you listed. 

So you mean to say that the investigations selection is lacking across all three different formats of play: Role Playing, Action and Story?

[PantsOnFire]

RogueBot wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Investigation and deeper character dialog is no longer present.

Incredibly disappointing, if true. 

The lack of the "investigate" dialogue option was my biggest beef with TOR. There was no depth to conversations, everything was always moving forwawrd. I excused it due to the fact that it was such huge game compared to singleplayer RPGs, but there's no excuse for this in ME3.

To me, this signifies a bigger change in Bioware's philosophy than anything you listed. 

This. This. This. This. I mean, I can't even imagine Bioware's justification for taking out the investigate dialogue options in what they call an "RPG". Even when they streamlined things in ME2, there was still SO much dialogue and character interaction. Now? It's looking like you maybe have one dialogue choice per conversation. It's embarrassing. I'm one of those people that likes to take Bioware's side, but the direction they're going in is closer to watered down shooters than deep RPGs.

[Aesieru]

phoenixofthunder wrote...

RogueBot wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Investigation and deeper character dialog is no longer present.

Incredibly disappointing, if true. 

The lack of the "investigate" dialogue option was my biggest beef with TOR. There was no depth to conversations, everything was always moving forward. I excused it due to the fact that it was such huge game compared to singleplayer RPGs, but there's no excuse for this in ME3.

To me, this signifies a bigger change in Bioware's philosophy than anything you listed. 

So you mean to say that the investigations selection is lacking across all three different formats of play: Role Playing, Action and Story?

Story and Action are awful, RPG is the real choice and yes, even more so on action.

[Solduri]

Aesieru wrote...

Solduri wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Solduri wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

I don't think there are any good RPG designers left then... certainly not for Sci-Fi.

Is this the end of quality RPG's?

i like bethesda lol

as for bioware well i ****ing hated dragon age 2... ill reserve my judgement of mass effect 3 until i play it but it doesn't look like much of a "RPG" anymore

Bethesda has the most bugs, made Skyrim whichr eally is the most repetitive thing I've played... and there's just honestly "too much" to really get into it unless you somehow get addicted which I did not. I've never really like their version of Open World, I did FO because it was kinda Sci-Fi Modern so I could force myself to.

bioware games have alot of bugs as well (see dragon age 2)

i still like bethesda and they dont do things like release day 1 dlc...
if bioware keeps pumping things like dragon age 2 and swtor out i really will stop buying their games which really hurts me to say seeing as ive played almost all of them since BG 

A lot of bugs for DA2, not many (some) for ME1 or M2 or DA:O, or those. (More for ME2)

---

Bethesda always has day 1 crashes, freezes, and bugs a plenty, and I just can't stand their repetition. I have Skyrim, but not past 2 hours with it for... months.

i have atleast 120+ hours in skyrim with no real big game breaking bugs so... 

[What a Succulent Ass]

PantsOnFire wrote...
there was still SO much dialogue and character interaction. Now? It's looking like you maybe have one dialogue choice per conversation.

...

Would now be a bad time to mention you get Zaeeded for the majority of the game?

[MeanderingMind]

Solduri wrote...

i have atleast 120+ hours in skyrim with no real big game breaking bugs so... 

There have been lots of patches along the way, so it's much better now than at launch.

[Solduri]

Random Jerkface wrote...

PantsOnFire wrote...
there was still SO much dialogue and character interaction. Now? It's looking like you maybe have one dialogue choice per conversation.

...

Would now be a bad time to mention you get Zaeeded for the majority of the game?

thats sucks:crying: why do they think removing the dialog system is a good idea? i thought that is what people played mass effect for... if it had no dialog system why wouldn't i just play gears of war?