89 réponses à ce sujet

[Mordaedil]

Blessings in the game like real life blessings give your characters morale and support reinforced through how the player feels about receiving the blessings.



I don't see why it took this long to answer this and why the topic delved into talking about extending your penis by your faith (or lack of)

[PhantoMSouljaX]

Jensonagain wrote...

You shouldn't expect a blessing to do anything, HOWEVER.....

Giving 5 gold to the reverend mother should of somehow shown to of helped the people of lothering.

Giving out 5 gold to help people deserves a cutscene eventually showing how it helped.

Also we should have the option of destroying the mages collective for abandoing the chantry. These mages don't realize their power and why the chantry & templars are needed.

OoO....i totally disagree,i do not want to be "kept in check" by some holyer than thou wanna be knight.

I say Power To The Mages!Power To The Mages!

[Wolfva2]

Elanareon wrote...

And what would be the chance that an all-powerful all-knowing "Maker" created THEDAS? Loot it here, IF the maker did exist, who made him? Is it by chance that he just popped out of nowhere and started creating THEDAS? If you say that he doesn't need to be made because he is the start and beginning, well that's just equivalent of saying its not possible that THEDAS was not made by chance. I say we were made by PROTHEANS!!!

I'd say 100%.  Further, I even know the name of this all knowing maker who created Thedas.  David Gaider.  WORSHIP HIM!  Lay upon the altar of Bioware your tithe for DLC!


Anyone else wondering why people are still going on about religion even after a moderator told people to quit it?  C'mon folks, be nice to the mods.  Don't make them start whipping people.  Leave that for Dominatrixes.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

deathwing200 wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...


Ah, over the past 100 years atheist tyrants (Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, ect) murdered over 250 million people. Far more than all other religions (yes, atheism is a religion) in the world combined for all of known history.

So? It doesn't diminish the fact that religion is doing more harm than good, even now. I remember reading a poll where more than 45% of Americans said that they won't vote for an atheist president. Talk about imaginary friends clouding over realism.

Sorry, but the facts are that religious people give far more to charity than atheists. There are alos many thousands of religiousorganizatinos that feed the poor, shelter the homeless, ect. To my knowledge there is not a single atheist organization that does the same.

I'm not saying there are no charitable atheists, only that overall, studies show that religious people help others more. So basicly atheism does nothing at all positive for society.

No, religious people are not delusional nor do we have imaginary friends. In fact, studies indicate religious people are more mentally healthy than atheists, commit suicide less often, and help others more. So I'd certainly say religion is very beneficial to society.

http://creationwiki....line_of_atheism

http://creation.com/atheism#suicide

Also, the laws of thermodynamics indicate that something can't come into beig from absolute nothing without a cause and that the univere can't be eternal. There had to be a cause that was not caused that produced the universe. A self-existant cause. God.

Then who made god? Is there a being more powerful than god. Can god create more gods? By your own logic God isn't eternal or all powerful. Doesn't sound very godly to me.

All things that have a beginning need a cause. God has no beginning. Also, God is a Spirit, not matter or entergy. The laws of thermodynamics govern matter and energy. If I were to paint a picture, it is obvious that my properties are not determined by the properties of the painting. My existence would not be tied to that of the painting. I would exist outside the painting. In the same way,  God is self-existant and not subject to the properties of the universe he created.

Atheists have NO explaination for the origin of the universe. Don't mention a singularity because you'll have to explain what produced the singularity. The only thing an atheist can say is "I don't know what caused the universe, but is was not God because God does not exist." That is a statment of faith, since there is no proof of God not existing.

Plenty of people have religion forced down their throat. In the past it was with violence. In the present it's with fear (Be bad and go to hell!). You'd have to be really stupid to be suckered into these money sucking cults, but most people are.

It is interesting that atheists seem to always need to call others stupid or delusional.

No one is forcing religion down your throat. You don't have to attend church and if there is a "street preacher" you can move along. Contrast that to atheist states, the old USSR, for example, where children in school were indoctrinated into atheism and taught to ridicule religion.

Try reading Genesis. It may not mention specifically how old the Earth is, but it describes the creation process itself. It'a laughable. Like a children's tale. Yes, God thought light was good and it happened. Christian science at its finest.

Sorry, but the claim was that the Bible teaches a 6000 year old earth, which is a false claim that you can't back up. Don't blame me if you can't understand Genesis and I don't have the time or inclination to explain it to you, particularly not on a game board.

The burden of proof lies with the religious to prove the existence of their God. One does not try to do it by discrediting theory of evolution, Darwinism, etc. It's obvious to me that you're a fanatic, who will never change his views, even though it's pathetic

Fanatic with pathetic beliefs, am I? I produced logical points and you resort to insults.

Sorry, but only a tiny fraction of all the people who have ever lived have been atheists. Atheism is the deviant belief and it is up to atheists to prove there is no God.

Oh, and who says evolution is counter to theism? Christian theologians proposed evolution long before Darwin. Thomas Aquinus for example.

Theists say God created. Atheists say the universe came from absolute nothing without a cause. The laws of thermodynamics backs theism, not atheism. Until you can prove that absolute nothing can produce something, the laws of thermodynamics imply that existence of God.

Now, I am done with discussing "real world" religion in this thread. Atheists brought real world religion and their disdain for it into the discussion and I doubt they will "let it go" but I am moving on.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 27 novembre 2009 - 11:01 .

[Saboera]

Doesn't do anything ingame, i think they hit the nail with it and it becomes a roleplay choice for your character more than anything, either having faith or not.



And for godsake people, let that whole atheist vs religion crap die, it's painful enough to see that same old stuff spark all the time but it's even worse when the arguments provided are ridiculous on both side.

[Original182]

bibgar wrote...

Human nature...

A bit like the Chantry and the Mages in game, one for religion and one for magic (the equivalent of our science?). What happens? Oppression and control, opposition and rebellion. Whenever two polar opinions come into contact with each other we have conflict, rational debate flies out the window and any hope of mutual agreement is dashed.

The dwarves and Dalish must shake their heads in wonder and confusion at these nutty humans. Personally, I'm with them.

Friend, a Casteless Dwarf like me is living proof that we dwarves aren't any better.
We may not have the chantry or magic to kill one another with, but we have our Orzammar politics and Caste system.

Though in a way it's proof that even if there was no chantry or magic, ferelden-ians will find an excuse to kill one another, one of them being politics.

[Original182]

Saboera wrote...
And for godsake people, let that whole atheist vs religion crap die, it's painful enough to see that same old stuff spark all the time but it's even worse when the arguments provided are ridiculous on both side.

It's getting out of hand. I have already reported the thread, asking for it to be removed. Maybe extra reports may speed it up.

[LovelyMover]

The interesting thing about the blessings is that one felt like it should have actually done something, while another later in the game left me thinking the NPC was a fraud & at some point I was no doubt going to have to kill her.



Don't close the thread yet, let them get it out of their systems now, then maybe there won't be a repeat performance later.



Anyway they're all wrong, and I've a picture of a cat rolling a melon out of a lake to prove it.

[LovelyMover]

@ Dusty

You can hide behind the Original's move for moderation duties, but we both know deep down that it was water, fruit, and a feline that gave you pause for thought

[Myzzrimm]

No, religious people are not delusional nor do we have imaginary friends. In fact, studies indicate religious people are more mentally healthy than atheists, commit suicide less often, and help others more. So I'd certainly say religion is very beneficial to society.

If I may interject for a moment. That is completely irrelevant to the larger scheme of things, due to the fact of the scale. Theists *vastly* outnumber atheists. If 1/100 theists commit suicide, it's 1%. If 1/10 atheists commit suicide, it's 10%.



From my point of view however, all of the "good" that is done is always done for the ulterior motive of going to heaven. No charity without reward, after all.

[F-C]

what i always find funny about these debates is its always the atheists who stick their head up first and start bashing on religion and then turn around and call the religious folks who defend their beliefs fanatics and whatnot.

go back to the first page and look. this whole discussion sprung up from one atheist person bashing religion.

it is quite amusing when you think about it.

most religious groups and people dont try to force their views on other people. if you want to hear it they will give you their opinion, and if you dont like it they will generally allow you to live your own life and make your own choices because in the end you are the one who has to answer for yourself.

while on the other hand the atheist types are usually the first to jump up and start making claims about religion is bad and all this other junk about religious people are brainwashed, idiots, fanatics, and so on and so forth.

then when a religious person defends his beliefs that are being attacked, they act like that is some kind of proof.

Modifié par F-C, 27 novembre 2009 - 07:22 .

[bjdbwea]

Atheism is a religion too, and its followers often quite zealous.



On topic: I think it gives +2 with Leliana at one instance at least.

[Dark83]

Yevgenii wrote...
Why do you think that the field of physics
has the highest convert ratio? There was a study done that estimates
the chances of our world being created by randomness. What did they
find? It was zero

I don't believe this for a second.

If the world is not as it is, we would not be around to see it as it is.

"Imagine
a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting
world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me
rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must
have been made to have me in it!' This is such a powerful idea that as
the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the
puddle gets smaller and smaller, it's still frantically hanging on to
the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world
was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment
he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be
something we need to be on the watch out for."
- Douglas Adams

Yevgenii wrote...

http://www.doesgodex...verseBegin.html <- Quick quote from the article, " As we have examined, there is absolutely no chance that the universe was created by chance" It explains the same idea, although the article I read is from Scientific American, so no bias there bud. It explains many singular occurences that have such a nearly infinitesmal chance of occuring, that for ALL of them to happen is - here it is - impossible.

What does this mean? That for life to have happened, there was a hand involved in making it. There have been many such studies done, look them up if you want. This is an example of science essentially proving religion.

Ralph Epperson is full of bull****. The bull**** being conspiracy theories. That's not science, it's just junk written up to fool those who don't bother to use their god-given capability for critical thinking into thinking it's science.
To critique that bull**** you linked - speaking as some random internet dude claiming he has a math degree, his statistics is flat out bull****. For one, he uses a deliberately limited field of time - 30 billion years. That is scompletely irrelevant because it is the end product of the statistics.

The start of the universe clearly can't happen during the 30 billion years because it has already done so. The time before said event is the time period in which the "chance it happens" takes place.

He's even completely misusing the watchmaker analogy.

Yevgenii wrote...

Haha.. did you even read it? He uses
illustrations, but it is a graduate-level thesis. Again, if you dont
believe it search for the Scientific American article with the same
idea. It says the same things. So do about 100 other articles. The
truth is there, whether you blind yourself because you have the reading
ability of a 6th grader is up to you.

I've marked 1st year papers that aren't this level of fail.

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Science certainly does not
support atheism. Quite the opposite. There is no evidece at  all that
God does not exist while there is evidence that the universe needed an
uncaused self-existant cause to come into being.

This is
blatantly false. There is no evidence that God exists, and no evidence
that the FSM does not. Science has no opinion on the existance or
nonexistance of God, nor is there any comment on science regarding the
singularity event.

Bull**** made up by religious fanatics written up like pseudo-science does not science make.

I'm not an Atheist, by the way, I'm actually Roman Catholic. A religion which took a step back into ignorance with the current pope regarding evolution. Religion has no business interfering with science. Science studies the physical world, and Religion the spiritual - neither touch each other.

God used the brilliant process we are currently studying as evolution in order to bring about the current world. God is not limited by some frightened pathetic old men who fail to understand the glorious complexity of His tools.

If you require fake science to affirm your beliefs, then your faith was clearly shaken by reality (as investigated non-judgementally by science) and your faith was lacking in the first place.

[Beechwell]

Jensonagain wrote...

You shouldn't expect a blessing to do anything, HOWEVER.....

Giving 5 gold to the reverend mother should of somehow shown to of helped the people of lothering.

Giving out 5 gold to help people deserves a cutscene eventually showing how it helped.

I disagree with this. Not every charitable action should profit you in return. The possibiliy may be there, but donations should not just be a different form of trading. Gold for an item or a favour. See it as an opportunity to role play. Or maybe a gamble if you will.

And I can't believe you are still debating real life religion an a game related forum. Quoting sites like CreationWiki no less.