12 réponses à ce sujet

[Maj Gant]

With my copy of the game I also received the Stone Prisoner.  I haven’t actually played that one yet (it's next on my list), however, I did pay for and download Warden's Keep.  Setting aside the items or other deliverables you can get for playing the DLC, is this the basic length we can expect going forward?  I am totally in favor of the DLC concept
as a way of providing almost episodic content and I have no issue in playing for it.  However, the length (at least of WK) is very concerning for the dollars spent.  I didn't exactly time it, but I don't think it lasted more
than 30-40 minutes.  That's just not a good return.  Again I haven't played the Stone Prisoner yet, but I am really hoping that DLC's give a good 2 hours of content.  Thoughts?

Modifié par Maj Gant, 26 novembre 2009 - 12:38 .

[Stanley Woo]

Velez89 wrote...

Loetek wrote...
i wouldnt bother with any DLC if i were you... make Bioware focus on big expansions... they are just going to nickel and dime us to death.

Truth.

Opinion with little basis in fact, ignoring everything BioWare has said in these forums and all evidence to the contrary. This opinion relies on anti-corporate conspiracy theories that the consumer is the one who determines how much money a corporation can make and is entitled to approve of that company's methods, which is patently false.

We have already said that we are looking into various sizes and varieties of DLC, from small content packages to large content packages. Many forumites prefer less frequent, full-sized expansion packs, which is essentially "diming and quartering" you to death. Six of one, a half-dozen of the other. No matter your opinion, we will endeavour to give the community as a whole (and not a few vocal community members) what they want. Thank you.

[Stanley Woo]

Few87 wrote...
anti-corporate conspiracy theories, ahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahah. If you gave people an actual answer bioware then maybe people would stop the rumours hmmmmm. Why not just say how long you expect some DLC will last rather than "small content packages to large content packages". What does that even mean, is small 5 minutes and large 30 mins? I dont understand why you dont just give a real answer. If you did that you wouldnt get half as many complaints.

Because we don't have those answers to give you, just as you don't know exactly how much you're going to spend on food next month or how long you're going to spend on the computer two weeks from now. Keep in mind also that any "guesses" or "estimates" we release will be taken as "oh my god cross your heart BioWare promised contract written in blood" gospel, and any deviation from that will be seen as a lie or a broken promise. So no, we're not going to give you any guesses until we know for certain what that package will contain.

Also, any "guesses" will be seen differently by different people. Some people were incensed that Warden's Keep was "only 45 minutes long," yet some folks enjoyed the 3 or 4 hours they spent on it. The main game itself was estimated at 60 hours or more, but we got many threads on the forums that took us to task for releasing a game that was "merely 20 hours long."

So no, you don't get any "I told you so" ammo from us until we're ready to give out that kind of information. Sorry.

[Gabo]

Few87 wrote...

anti-corporate conspiracy theories, ahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahah. If you gave people an actual answer bioware then maybe people would stop the rumours hmmmmm. Why not just say how long you expect some DLC will last rather than "small content packages to large content packages". What does that even mean, is small 5 minutes and large 30 mins? I dont understand why you dont just give a real answer. If you did that you wouldnt get half as many complaints.

You do realize, Few, that products being developed are in constant change? Since things might be cut due to not working out or not being fun or resources having to be moved elsewhere, it is necessary to avoid announcing anything that might change because then the company looks bad for changing it if it does change. Therefore, we can't specifically announce anything that isn't fully finalized. 

It would be cool to be able to say, oh, we are working on something that might be such and and such, but because of the way people react to changes, its just not convenient for a company.

[Gabo]

there.. two different, but correct reasons for the same thing!

[Stanley Woo]

Oeacle wrote...
So far I am only seeing crappy, overpriced, and short DLCs with overpowered items in the future.

Bioware, it is your fault. You set a high standard with DA, which is an excellent game.

Now if we compare the DLCs with the game, it is really sad. A pile of trash offered to us to get some extra bling bling.

No, I do not expect a 100 hour gameplay for little coin.

Yet 40 min/w.e for the price isn't enough. It isn't enough when we compare it for what we got with the actual game DA.

You set the standard, now stand up to it.

I'm sorry that we are unable to customize our DLC to satisfy each individual player's DLC wants and needs. We try to use our resources to greatest efficiency, which involves pleasing as many people as possible all at once. It's possible that your DLC wishes will be missed now and again, but there's nothing we can reasonably due to ensure your happiness with everything we do.

[Gabo]

Hey Oeacle,



I'm sure there will be mods that include infinite dungeons where you can spend hours and hours fighting darkspawn, and you will get those for free. Excellent value!



For those who want frequent, quality updates that include cutscenes and well designed gameplay situations, well, I'm afraid there's a cost, so its a good thing there's also a demand.



Having said that, I've been making sure to tell our designers that there's a loud group of people in the forums that only seem to care about the length of what they get.

[Gabo]

 

 I guess I'd rather see DA2 with as few delays as possible and sooner than anything else, but an expansion or enhanced edition (a la Witcher, although the vanilla Witcher had quite a few more problems and deficiencies than vanilla DA ever thought about having, probably because they're a much younger developer in terms of doing their own games--interesting to note that they apparently got their start with translating the Baldur's Gate games as well as Planescape: Torment into Polish) would be great if they could put one together. 

While I can't talk about what's planned for DA's future, I'd like to point out something. Look at how Left 4 Dead's fans reacted when it was announced that the sequel was coming out. They were furious because they didn't get more support towards their "investment" in the original title. I'm afraid that consumers have changed a lot in what they expect from products and the business model has had to change with them.
As for Devs speaking out on forums, I know that in general we just want to hear feedback and explain why some things were done the way they were and announce what little we can when there is something to announce, but sometimes I do want to give some people a good slap on the head when they just don't pay attention to what I'm saying.

[Gabo]

french lies wrote...

On a more serious note, while I understand that it's frustrating for people who work 16-hour days on making a quality game to see people measuring the value of their work in terms of hours of gameplay/asking price, the Bioware reps would do well in being more careful and measured in their responses. Noone was ever won over by an insult, but even the most unreasonable will lend an ear when respect is shown at the other end of the table.

I appologize if anything I said was offensive or insulting to anyone. If I did, I would like to know what it was though, since I was pretty sure I've been quite respectful. Just as we as a company can build better games with the feedback, I'd like to perfect my forum manners.

[Gabo]

Oeacle wrote...

As far as I know, there was no quality in the released DLC Warden.
There were no well designed gameplay situations.

What I have claimed is that the standard of the DLC does not meet the standard of the game. They are rushed, and  mindlessly put together. Along comes the crap items, that you don't have to earn and which only further spoil your game, by being overpowered.
You either have a hard time comprehending what I am trying to say or you just don't want to.

I comprehend what you are saying, but I disagree with it personally (I quite enjoyed playing though Warden's Keep) and I'm glad to say that many people also enjoyed it. I'm sorry that you feel that way about Warden's Keep but I can tell you that it was neither rushed nor mindlessly put together.

I do, however, feel that a general feedback we've been getting is based on the playtime length of the DLC, but very few people have really complained about the quality of the plot (except that some things are left unanswered) or the battle design (which closely resembles the general style of the rest of the game). Hence, I have been making sure to tell the DLC team that playing time is what matters most to a lot of people.

[Stanley Woo]

Loetek wrote...
How is that false? Its apart of the supply and demand system. Also there is no law, governed by the United States of America or The Maker himself, that says I have to buy ANYTHING from Bioware. If I don't "approve" then yes i technically DO determine how much the company can make.

Really? By not buying a BioWare product, you, all by yourself, determine how much money BioWare makes? You can state unilaterally that "BioWare only makes X million dollars because I chose not to buy this game"?

I don't think that's the case, Loetek, and that's not the kind of "determine how much money bioWare can make" I was referring to, so perhaps I should be clearer. The market determines what BioWare makes, not individuals. Individuals do their part and, if enough of them do the same thing, it affects the market. That much I understand and I agree with you. Individuals can and do come together to affect the market.

But what I was referring to originally was people who erroneously believe that they know how much money is "enough" for a corporation. People who say that "BioWare doesn't need any more money, they've got enough" or "they made x millions on this game already, why do they need more?" or "I think x millions should be more than enough to pay their salaries."

As for consumer choice, I have always believed that buying a BioWare game is an option, a luxury. Not everyone who rails against BioWare believes that "optional" means "I can choose to not have it," however. Some folks apparently believe that "optional" means "but I waaaaaaaaant it!"

I hope that clarifies my position a little.

[Gabo]

Zealuu wrote...
I certainly hope you're not referring to Stone Prisoner or Warden's Keep with that, seeing how the former was fairly obviously plucked from the main game and distributed as "free DLC" to provide some incentive to go ahead with the whole Bioware/EA account merging process, whereas the latter is basically a seven dollar storage chest - a genre staple which should have been in the party camp to begin with. You don't need to be a rabid believer in all-encompassing government-corporate conspiracies involving chemtrails, evil vaccines, illuminati and quite possibly the Vatican in order to see that.

While I can't individually tell each person who believes this to be true that its wrong, I'll make an effort to clarify with as many as I can.

I'm one of the main gameplay programmers for DA:O and I was there: the stone prisoner and the WK chest were not plucked out of the game just to have DLC content. Its the other way around, you are able to have access to it thanks to the fact that the DLC system exists. Otherwise, we would just be focusing on the next big project and that content that couldn't make it into the game for some reason or other would just be cut and forgotten. 

You should also know that us "insiders" are not allowed to give wrong or misleading information, as that gets us into big trouble. If there's something we'd rather not talk about, then we just won't mention it so if we are talking about it, that means it has to be true (to the best of our knowledge).

Anyway, I'm sure I've bored everyone else by now, I think I'll just start private messaging people so that others don't have to read the same things over and over. 

[Stanley Woo]

Hurrrr wrote...
Maybe let your PR people do the talking

I would, but people seem to prefer it when we speak plainly and honestly, and I happen to love both our community and the games we make, which is why I volunteer my time and effort here in the forums.