160 réponses à ce sujet

[LadyRae9]

The only problem I have with the DLCs is that Stone Keep wasn't re-opened all cleaned up after it was cleaned out.



I'd like to see the chest moved to the Camp - it's just too much hassle to run to the Keep every time I want to access it. It would up being easier to just sell everything to the merchant and buy it back if I decide I do need it later.



As for future DLCs - I'd like to see more companions, especially romance options. I've no problem with ones that add a suit of armor or two. I would, however, hope the ones that add a few items would cost less than the ones that add new areas and/or new companions.



If the upcoming Ostagar lives up to it's hype, then I'll be happy

[Wickedjelly]

LadyRae9 wrote...

As for future DLCs - I'd like to see more companions, especially romance options.

I don't know how realistic that is.  Adding new companions would require quite a bit of work to do far as fitting them into the whole framework of this game.  Maybe in an expansion or a sequel but I don't think you would see that in an dlc.  Unless it was a rather "pricey" one.

[Spaceweed10]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Velez89 wrote...

Loetek wrote...
i wouldnt bother with any DLC if i were you... make Bioware focus on big expansions... they are just going to nickel and dime us to death.

Truth.

Opinion with little basis in fact, ignoring everything BioWare has said in these forums and all evidence to the contrary. This opinion relies on anti-corporate conspiracy theories that the consumer is the one who determines how much money a corporation can make and is entitled to approve of that company's methods, which is patently false.

We have already said that we are looking into various sizes and varieties of DLC, from small content packages to large content packages. Many forumites prefer less frequent, full-sized expansion packs, which is essentially "diming and quartering" you to death. Six of one, a half-dozen of the other. No matter your opinion, we will endeavour to give the community as a whole (and not a few vocal community members) what they want. Thank you.

Stanley aims his 'F*ck off Sword of Ownage' at Loetek...and hits for massive critical damage.  Loetek hits the deck like a sack of sh!t and lays motionless, as his head rolls away for a few feet and stops...

.

[Wynne]

The Demonologist wrote...

I think it goes to show you how much Bioware cares that they're willing to even speak with the dumb folk that so frequently complain.
Now, people that come up with long posts based very much in constructive criticism or with alot of examples backing them up? That's expected and delivered.
Responding to the fools just looking to vent a day's frustration over one thing that aggravates them? Charity work.

 
You said it best. I mean, on most forums anywhere you don't get devs answering at all, much less bothering to reply to people who aren't using their common sense, aren't considering the realities of what can and can't be done, and take everything as a personal insult/conspiracy against the consumer. The first two tendencies aren't that bad, but the last is just ridiculous. Honestly, if they met some of these people, I think they'd feel really humbled by their humanity. Bioware's made up of human beings who actually give a crap what we think. That's a big reason for their success (and rather shocking, if you think about how rare it is). I'm not saying we shouldn't ask for what we want, far from it, I'm all on board the critique train, but when somebody starts up with the "you're doing this just because you want to bankrupt me, you evil corporation!" nonsense... I mean, it's just silliness. C'mon. That's not using your head.

I like to tell myself that six months from now, when they stumble across their own post in a web search, read it, and then realize they wrote it, they'll feel humiliated and hope that the thread gets accidentally deleted somehow. I mean, everybody posts something sometime that they regret. I try to assume that they would normally be more reasonable and they just had a bad moment, though of course there are people who just have read too many corporate espionage novels or something and will never come back from the brink. 

Gabochido wrote...

For those who want frequent, quality
updates that include cutscenes and well designed gameplay situations,
well, I'm afraid there's a cost, so its a good thing there's also a
demand.

I would take that over length and items anyday, honestly. Especially anything related to companions, deep characters, or expansion of the effect of origins. I would love to see Jowan get restored, although I'm aware that the chance of that happening is basically nonexistent. For me, the more ties there are to specific origins the more full and rich the game world feels. I mean, my choice in the main quest of Orzammar was drastically affected by my origin. I love that; when a decision is hard to make, it's so much more rewarding to make a choice based on who my character is and what she knows.

I realize this would probably be very hard to do, and it raises concerns about how to make sure it appeals to everyone, but if it were possible I'd love to see origin-related content more than anything else. Even if it were just limited to the categories of dwarf, elf, or mage. So, even though I know it's likely not realistic to ask for, the origins were so central to the game that I would love to them expanded in any way possible.

Katrar wrote...

I think many people remember true BioWare
expansions (Tales, Undrentide, Hordes, Throne). They almost always
included many hours of actual gameplay, refinements to the user
interface, new races/classes/abilities/spells. BioWare expansions were
meaty, and good.
My fear, and I suspect the fear of many people
that are wary of DLC, is that the days of those awesome expansions,
which were full fledged productions, are past. That a "big DLC" will be
a place, and an hour or two of content, that fits nicely tucked into
your in game map. Sure, some DLC may be really cool, but if there is
nothing to be found the likes of those amazing expansion packs of yore,
I'll be disappointed. Just being honest.

Now, that is a good point. I have to say, I would rather see a gorgeous expansion than DLC any day. I'd rather shell out $40 than $5, that's just how I am. It really depends on the content, I'd gladly shell out $5 for further companion, ending, or origin content, but I would hate to think that DLC could swallow up any chance of a nice, meaty expansion. I hope that's not the case, but then, I can't think of the last time Bioware did a full expansion since NWN. Kotor, Jade Empire and Mass Effect didn't see any expansion love. It's probably not related to DLC, DLC may in fact be a way of compensating for the decision not to do expansions since KOTOR and Jade Empire didn't have any DLC in the first place, but I do miss expansions like Tales, Hordes, and Throne. I would love to see them come back, but then, I don't know how well they sold.

I guess I'd rather see DA2 with as few delays as possible and sooner than anything else, but an expansion or enhanced edition (a la Witcher, although the vanilla Witcher had quite a few more problems and deficiencies than vanilla DA ever thought about having, probably because they're a much younger developer in terms of doing their own games--interesting to note that they apparently got their start with translating the Baldur's Gate games as well as Planescape: Torment into Polish) would be great if they could put one together.

LadyRae9 wrote...
As for future DLCs - I'd like to see more
companions, especially romance options.
...
If the upcoming Ostagar lives up to it's hype, then I'll be happy

I too am looking forward to Ostagar.  I totally agree on the companion thing, too... I mean, Valentine's Day is like the perfect opportunity for some romantic stuff--people with an s.o. are in a mushy mood and people without are looking for something to take their mind off the holiday. There'd be two and a half months to get it ready... I guess my hierarchy would be DA2 on top, Valentine's Day DLC next, and a full expansion close behind. Yeah, I'm a hopeless romantic. I don't yet have the achievement to prove it, but I will soon enough.

Modifié par Wynne, 27 novembre 2009 - 12:16 .

[attackfighter]

I don't like small DLC, even if it's free. I haven't even bothered to download Stone Prisoner or the Dragon Armour, simply because it doesn't seem worth the effort. I like Dragon Age and similar RPG's because I can develop my character over the course of many seperate quests and adventures; DLC only offers a few extra quests which probably won't tie into the rest of the story.

I also only play one or two games at a time, so once I finish Dragon Age it would be too hard for me to return just to check out a single new DLC, as I would have to relearn the controls and get reacqainted with the setting. Unless I come back for a serious, new playthrough there's not way I'm coming back to this game at all.

An expansion pack would offer a coherant set of quests and would give me adequite time to really get into the game. I'd definately pick up this game again if a full sized expansion pack came out and I'd probably be prompted to play through it again. An expansion pack would definately be preferable to DLC.

Also on the topic of 'game devs posting in forums', I would have to say I'm pretty jaded from them doing so. Not for Bioware devs posting in these forums, but from experiences I've had with other game devs. On the Paradox Interactive forums for example, the CEO spends his time flaming half the fanbase and locking all negative threads (he is probably responcible for 90% of the locked threads there). There's also Silicon Knights' CEO and all the drama his internet foryays have caused (he was banned from a gaming forum and made some poor comments). Finally you have the Hitler of gaming: Bobby Koteck - I forget what he's done, but I remember reading some comments by him that sounded very Montgommery Burns-esque (or however you want to put it). In all, I do not like devs speaking to the community, especially when they say stuff like 'we're doing what our fans want' when so many of the community are blatantly displeased in some form or another.

I'd like to add the DA:O is an awesome game. Most of my dissatisfaction stems from the DLC, and I feel that since I've focused on that so much my post is unnecesarily negative. I love the game itself and I eagerly anticipate the sequel.

[attackfighter]

Err, I just wrote a huge post and it's not showing up... wtf?

[Wickedjelly]

attackfighter wrote...

I don't like small DLC, even if it's free. I haven't even bothered to download Stone Prisoner or the Dragon Armour...

It's totally up to you but if you got Stone Prisoner for free I would recommend downloading it.  There is a bit of story there and it does add another companion you can run around or interact with.

I'm not going to argue the dlc point as a whole but if you have Prisoner I would at least check it out simply because it adds some entertainment value.  Just my opinion.

[04WigmoreB]

I personally quite liked the small DLC that we've gotten so far, and was happy to buy it. That being said, a larger expansion would make me even more happy.

[Fredescu]

attackfighter wrote...

I don't like small DLC, even if it's free. I haven't even bothered to download Stone Prisoner or the Dragon Armour, simply because it doesn't seem worth the effort. I like Dragon Age and similar RPG's because I can develop my character over the course of many seperate quests and adventures; DLC only offers a few extra quests which probably won't tie into the rest of the story.

You couldn't be more wrong about Stone Prisoner. Shale is the gift that keeps on giving.

[akridine]

This is nuts, the game hasn't even been out a month yet, I havent had a chance to buy it and people are whining about DLC and expansions.



obviously the whiners are too young to remember the commodore 64 days, genesis/mega drive and NES SNES days, they expect far too much from games and don't appreciate the fun.



Length of DLC doesn't matter to me aslong as its good quality and fun, im mostly happy that the game will continue into the future and not sit on a shelf gathering dust for 2 years until an expansions released

[Jayce]

Bugger me! People are complaining about the amount of DLC? The game has only been out a month and we've already got more extras than we did for the entirety of Mass Effect's release! Show a little faith and patience, people and quit your goddamn whining!

[akridine]

I wonder if the people complaining about the DLC have jobs or are using their pocket money to buy it? anyone with a job shouldn't be complaining about the loose change the DLC costs, I could proberbly buy all the DLC with the pennys on my coffee table, thinking about it i proberbly give more money to beggers each month than the DLC would cost me

[MonkeyLungs]

More DLC and faster is the way to do it in todays market. Sell DLC while the game is hot and more people will buy it. Wait three months or more and sell alot less, especially to the PC crowd who will be making their own DLC's.

[deano2099]

Stanley Woo wrote...

We have already said that we are looking into various sizes and varieties of DLC, from small content packages to large content packages. Many forumites prefer less frequent, full-sized expansion packs, which is essentially "diming and quartering" you to death. Six of one, a half-dozen of the other. No matter your opinion, we will endeavour to give the community as a whole (and not a few vocal community members) what they want. Thank you.

Except, no.
I've bought the DLC. I'll continue to buy it. For me, it's worth the price as I enjoy the game and have enough disposible income that I can afford it even though I'm quite aware it's not great value for money.

But don't condescend that an expansion and DLC are "Six of one, a half-dozen of the other". If future DLC matches Warden's Keep in terms of content / money spent, which it looks like it will with Ostegar, then an equivalent expansion would either be four hours long or twice the price of the original game. There's a huge difference. And I'm pretty sure that absolutely everyone in this community would prefer more content for less money. Sure, we all draw the line in a different place in terms of where we no longer find the product worth buying, but of course everyone would rather have more for less.

An expansion would give that. It's not about the format in which it's presented, it's to do with the quantity of content (and by that, I don't mean game length). You can package up 6 Warden's Keep length DLCs in an expansion box and sell it for £20 and people won't be any happier, and the expansion will be derided by press and critics for being short.

It's a content/money thing. It's not about format. And even those of us that really enjoy the DLC and consider it worth the cost are acutely aware that the value we're getting for our dollar is far less than anything else Bioware have ever released.

[deano2099]

Sorry double post.

Modifié par deano2099, 26 novembre 2009 - 11:47 .

[DrudgeRavener5]

I don't think the actual start to finish length of the DLC is the real issue, at least not for me. I enjoyed Warden's Keep but you basically just show up, do the quest, and then that's it. With the exception of the chest and Starfang, I felt no reason to ever come back or to even think about it again (What's up with the mage that tells you he'll let you know if his research yields anything and yet you never hear from him again? Did I do something wrong?)



Stone Prisoner on the other hand gave you a nice side quest to do PLUS a kick ass new party member and could even affect choices made later in the game (ie the Paragon quest). I felt there was a lot more "meat" to it than Warden's Keep.



Having bought the DDE I like to pretend that Warden's Keep was the "free" DLC and Stone Prisoner was the one I payed extra for. I enjoyed them both but Stone Prisoner was just way more satisfying for me.

[Gabo]

 

 I guess I'd rather see DA2 with as few delays as possible and sooner than anything else, but an expansion or enhanced edition (a la Witcher, although the vanilla Witcher had quite a few more problems and deficiencies than vanilla DA ever thought about having, probably because they're a much younger developer in terms of doing their own games--interesting to note that they apparently got their start with translating the Baldur's Gate games as well as Planescape: Torment into Polish) would be great if they could put one together. 

While I can't talk about what's planned for DA's future, I'd like to point out something. Look at how Left 4 Dead's fans reacted when it was announced that the sequel was coming out. They were furious because they didn't get more support towards their "investment" in the original title. I'm afraid that consumers have changed a lot in what they expect from products and the business model has had to change with them.
As for Devs speaking out on forums, I know that in general we just want to hear feedback and explain why some things were done the way they were and announce what little we can when there is something to announce, but sometimes I do want to give some people a good slap on the head when they just don't pay attention to what I'm saying.

[akridine]

Gabochido wrote...

 

 I guess I'd rather see DA2 with as few delays as possible and sooner than anything else, but an expansion or enhanced edition (a la Witcher, although the vanilla Witcher had quite a few more problems and deficiencies than vanilla DA ever thought about having, probably because they're a much younger developer in terms of doing their own games--interesting to note that they apparently got their start with translating the Baldur's Gate games as well as Planescape: Torment into Polish) would be great if they could put one together. 

While I can't talk about what's planned for DA's future, I'd like to point out something. Look at how Left 4 Dead's fans reacted when it was announced that the sequel was coming out. They were furious because they didn't get more support towards their "investment" in the original title. I'm afraid that consumers have changed a lot in what they expect from products and the business model has had to change with them.
As for Devs speaking out on forums, I know that in general we just want to hear feedback and explain why some things were done the way they were and announce what little we can when there is something to announce, but sometimes I do want to give some people a good slap on the head when they just don't pay attention to what I'm saying.

I for one like the route bioware is taking, it seems to be the only company thats trying to evolve as gamers expectations change, and if your as active in the community as you are here when SW:TOR is released i'll be a very happy person

[dmhalsey]

Fredescu wrote...

If Bioware don't make a lot of money from DLC, I'd say this will be the last big budget PC focused RPG we'll ever see. Personally I would buy $5 DLC of Leliana reading her shopping list in the vain hope that more of this type of game gets made.

Ummm I'd buy that just because I love that woman's voice.
Oh and I lve what you guys are doing so far Bioware keep it up. One thing to remember is bioware has a two year plan for dragon age. That's alot of dlc and maybe an expansion or two.They  haven't said they are making an expansion but they haven't said they are not. But I have read repeatedly that they plan on having dlc coming out for like two years.

Modifié par dmhalsey, 27 novembre 2009 - 12:35 .

[gizzt]

I think the warden keep could have easily been expanded by adding a few extra room full of enemies. The story, gfx and characters are all there its just feels a bit short coz there isnt much of a dungeon crawl unlike the rest of the game. Possibly more "raise from the dead" groups of enemies to.

[Hurbster]

I think the DLC we have had so far has been just fine, adds a nice bit of extra flavour to the game. Was slightly disappointed we did not go back into Wardens Keep after cleaning it out though. I would imagine there are larger content chunks coming down the pipeline in the months to come, hopefully something as epic as Shivering Isles, which as far as I am concerned it the pinnacle of fantasy dlc. Even a smaller one, say on a par with the Fallout 3 DLC would be nice. Too many small ones would get annoying though.

[Wynne]

attackfighter wrote...

Also on the topic of 'game devs
posting in forums', I would have to say I'm pretty jaded from them
doing so. Not for Bioware devs posting in these forums, but from
experiences I've had with other game devs. On the Paradox Interactive
forums for example, the CEO spends his time flaming half the fanbase
and locking all negative threads (he is probably responcible for 90% of
the locked threads there). There's also Silicon Knights' CEO and all
the drama his internet foryays have caused (he was banned from a gaming
forum and made some poor comments). Finally you have the Hitler of
gaming: Bobby Koteck - I forget what he's done, but I remember reading
some comments by him that sounded very Montgommery Burns-esque (or
however you want to put it).

Heh, I had mercifully forgotten about that kind of crap... I should've clarified "how often do devs post actual friendly answers to questions and offer positive commentary?"  Seriously, I can't count the number of times I've seen David Gaider, Sheryl Chee, Mary Kirby, and others post in order to answer a question they thought was interesting or make a teasing comment about stuff they weren't yet allowed to fully disclose. You could see how much they loved seeing our anticipation. How often do a significant number of different devs regularly post on the forums when it's NOT for the purpose of a big malicious ego trip as in the examples you mention? I'd say the number shrinks quite a bit when you add those conditions.

I believe it's a good idea for us to try to give them reasons to keep doing so, to keep them from getting as jaded as can happen on a place like the internet when you start to realize nobody appreciates what you're trying to do by explaning your perspective. I know they get paid and all, but they also actually care about us. They enjoy seeing us happy and they actually continually seek feedback to do even better the next time. I love the fact that they're so friendly and I would be really sad if they ever gave up on the fan base.

I know Stanley Woo was pissed, but I think he had a pretty good reason to be in this case, so I don't see that as being negative. There is such a thing as justified disgust in my book. It tends to happen whenever somebody decides they know you and know your intentions are bad when they have never met you or even conversed with you online. I can't stand it when people do that to me; years ago before I learned to stop feeding the trolls it was a major source of long-winded rebuttals which I am now embarrassed to have bothered to write.

I don't know about anyone else, but the gut feeling I've always had about Bioware has always been majorly good, and was not contradicted in late October of this year. So even though I have no plans to stop complaining about what I don't like (I mean, who likes a sycophant anyway?) I try to never stop adding the same condition you did: that I love the games and my complaints are really minor in comparison to how much I enjoyed the experience. And I hope most of us keep doing that. Keep making it seem worthwhile. I don't want egomaniacs to become the only kind of devs who bother to post on the internet.

Gabochido wrote...

While I can't talk about what's planned for DA's future, I'd like to point out something. Look at how Left 4 Dead's fans reacted when it was announced that the sequel was coming out. They were furious because they didn't get more support towards their "investment" in the original title. I'm afraid that consumers have changed a lot in what they expect from products and the business model has had to change with them.
As for Devs speaking out on forums, I know that in general we just want to hear feedback and explain why some things were done the way they were and announce what little we can when there is something to announce, but sometimes I do want to give some people a good slap on the head when they just don't pay attention to what I'm saying.

Hmm. I see what you mean. I hadn't really thought of that... I guess I'd personally base my feelings on whether the DLC was specifically advertised as part of the original investment--if it wasn't, then being angry at not getting more support for your investment is just ridiculous.

Personally, I felt like DA is well worth the price asked for it and a little more on top; it's a huge game in which you can spend many hours. I know never to underestimate the ability of human beings to complain, but I don't think it would be reasonable to do so in this particular case. We all got our money's worth already, I would say that without question.

As for wanting to slap people who don't bother to listen--that's just a sign that you're human.  But it's the internet. Unfortunately, there will always be people around who are bored, annoyed, or just plain not in a mood to think.
So, thanks for putting up with them in order to talk to the bulk fan base. I really believe the vast majority of us deeply appreciate it, and I know I do.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Basically when it comes to DLCs people want more Point Lookout and less Horse Armor in setup. To use the examples from Bioware, people don't want Pinnacle Station type DLCs, but DLCs with meat in them, like a Durlag's Tower equivelent to use a BG reference, but not Watcher's Tower. Instead of making $5 DLCs I think the majority of the forumites here want to see substantial DLCs that would be more around $10 module packs that are more along the design of the old DnD modules.

[1Ghostlogic1]

You know based on the fact that wardens keep cost $7 for 30min to an hour

I Hope we get a discount on a long dlc if it comes or for 5 hours we pay $35ish...

Based on the rate of course there would be mutinies but eh who knows

2 years dlc

Income - (cost to manufacture game/engine/ect + cost to pay workers and bills) = Profit for game
Income - workers and bill cost = Profit for dlc

Game about 80 to 100 hours : Price = 60 (for reg at list.. actualy can get for 50 from ea and others)
60/80 = .75cents/hour 60/100 = .60 cents/hour
.60-.75cents/hour

DLC so far
Wardens Keep :30 Min to 1 Hour
Shale : 1 Hour (plus in game stuff so not really easy to figure out ill give it 2:30)

7/.5 = $14/hour
15/2.5 = $6/hour

Return to Ostagar
$5/??


I hope this begins to add up more i mean it seems uneven to me .... i understand i right to price how they want but .... a little consistency pls

Modifié par 1Ghostlogic1, 27 novembre 2009 - 01:27 .