160 réponses à ce sujet

[phordicus]

Gabochido wrote...
You should also know that us "insiders" are not allowed to give wrong or misleading information, as that gets us into big trouble. If there's something we'd rather not talk about, then we just won't mention it so if we are talking about it, that means it has to be true (to the best of our knowledge).

pm me!
fo'rizza.  my earlier question about future DLC was about "unlocking" currently unimplemented engine features or adding in new ones, such as what ToB did by adding wild magic.  anything near that level planned or is it secret?
i don't need to know but it would make my pizza taste better and that's impressive in itself.

[Wickedjelly]

KalDurenik wrote...

I have to agree with what Gabochido said here... The quality is ok / good and so on. However the length (for me and my friend) is abit to short.

Meh...it was a bit overpriced considering the length but I would have been fine with it.  My two gripes are that regardless what they feel about Warden's Keep it came across as unfinished to me because one story has no closure even though it alludes that it will and the fact you can't reenter the keep afterwards.

I guess I'm in the minority but neither of my concerns were really the length.  It was the quality for me.  They could have offered the same dlc at $5 and my complaints would still stand in that dlc's current condition.  The keep thing doesn't really bother me all that much although it just seems like an oversight.  The story part really kind of pissed me off.

[leewells]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Velez89 wrote...

Loetek wrote...
i wouldnt bother with any DLC if i were you... make Bioware focus on big expansions... they are just going to nickel and dime us to death.

Truth.

Opinion with little basis in fact, ignoring everything BioWare has said in these forums and all evidence to the contrary. This opinion relies on anti-corporate conspiracy theories that the consumer is the one who determines how much money a corporation can make and is entitled to approve of that company's methods, which is patently false.

We have already said that we are looking into various sizes and varieties of DLC, from small content packages to large content packages. Many forumites prefer less frequent, full-sized expansion packs, which is essentially "diming and quartering" you to death. Six of one, a half-dozen of the other. No matter your opinion, we will endeavour to give the community as a whole (and not a few vocal community members) what they want. Thank you.

As a consumer, not a vocal community member, I would rather see larger story lines and content for higher prices than shallow content for less money.  That is just me though and I would expect and hope I'm not the only one in that boat either =P

As someone whom did minor in marketing and works in the field, I can say that the average consumer quickly forgets how much exacly was paid or not paid per-product after purchase.  So if any company is looking out for self-image, the smart thing to do, in any situation, is to ensure that every client can say, "now thats a nice expansion".  As the common saying goes, "It only takes 1 unsatisfied customer to convert 100 satisfied customers to the same".   The point is, many people out there do not care how much they paid for an expansion AFTER they pay for it, the only thing they care about, is the quality of that expansion.  So providing micro-transaction type content packages is more apt to make customers mad, than happy.

[Darkest Dreamer]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Really? By not buying a BioWare product, you, all by yourself, determine how much money BioWare makes? You can state unilaterally that "BioWare only makes X million dollars because I chose not to buy this game"?

Of course he can, see:
“Bioware only makes x million minus $30 because I chose not to buy this game!”

To stay on topic, I have to say I really enjoyed the DLC but would prefer it if the developers concentrated on depth as opposed to length. I'm probably the small voice in this regard but who says I can't hope.

[Hurrrr]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Velez89 wrote...

Loetek wrote...
i wouldnt bother with any DLC if i were you... make Bioware focus on big expansions... they are just going to nickel and dime us to death.

Truth.

Opinion with little basis in fact, ignoring everything BioWare has said in these forums and all evidence to the contrary. This opinion relies on anti-corporate conspiracy theories that the consumer is the one who determines how much money a corporation can make and is entitled to approve of that company's methods, which is patently false.

We have already said that we are looking into various sizes and varieties of DLC, from small content packages to large content packages. Many forumites prefer less frequent, full-sized expansion packs, which is essentially "diming and quartering" you to death. Six of one, a half-dozen of the other. No matter your opinion, we will endeavour to give the community as a whole (and not a few vocal community members) what they want. Thank you.

Err..."This opinion relies on anti-corporate conspiracy theories that the consumer is the one who determines how much money a corporation can make and is entitled to approve of that company's methods, which is patently false."

Maybe let your PR people do the talking

[Stanley Woo]

Hurrrr wrote...
Maybe let your PR people do the talking

I would, but people seem to prefer it when we speak plainly and honestly, and I happen to love both our community and the games we make, which is why I volunteer my time and effort here in the forums.

[eyesofastorm]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Hurrrr wrote...
Maybe let your PR people do the talking

I would, but people seem to prefer it when we speak plainly and honestly, and I happen to love both our community and the games we make, which is why I volunteer my time and effort here in the forums.

And even when I'm making your life/job difficult, I love you for this.... and all the others who come here to be abused. 

[Ezio Faraglia]

I heard Warden's Keep will take around an hour to play, but I explore every inch of every "level" so it may take me a bit longer, same goes for Stone Prisoner

[Wickedjelly]

Ezio Faraglia wrote...

I heard Warden's Keep will take around an hour to play, but I explore every inch of every "level" so it may take me a bit longer, same goes for Stone Prisoner

Warden's Keep will take take the average gamer one to two hours.  Where some  got this ridiculous notion that it's 3, 4, or more is beyond me.  Although I've also seen some goofballs say it takes 20 minutes so I suppose you have those that exaggerate on both ends.

As for Stone Prisoner it's a bit more involved.  There's an adventure like Warden's Keep but it also adds another playable character to your party for use and some "surprises" down the road if you use the character.  There's a lot more to Stone Prisoner than Waren's Keep.

...and unlike Warden's Keep when you do the Stone Prisoner content there aren't any unfinished stories which is always a plus

[Seclus]

I was skeptical about the dlc but i find myself enjoying the DLC a lot. the story is great but I do have to agree that not being able to enter the keep after going inside is a little on the disturbing side.



I find the quality overall with the story elements to be great. so i am looking forward to the new dlc coming up.



I do think that DLC so far will not equal an expansion but I am ok with that cause the quality seems to be great and its been enjoyable. I don't think DA will have an expansion the storyline from what i have played seems to make this very difficult.



I will gladly support DLC as long as it keeps its current level of quality and hopefully only get better in quality as they release more. I also find time ratios have their place but shouldn't be the only form of justification. I also believe wardens keep took me 1-2 hours to complete, but then i read all the info and codex and talk with people about whats going on in my group.



Well i am looking forward to the new DLC and hope more side bits of story info come along. I enjoy the lore and extra bits a lot.

[Loetek]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Loetek wrote...
How is that false? Its apart of the supply and demand system. Also there is no law, governed by the United States of America or The Maker himself, that says I have to buy ANYTHING from Bioware. If I don't "approve" then yes i technically DO determine how much the company can make.

Really? By not buying a BioWare product, you, all by yourself, determine how much money BioWare makes? You can state unilaterally that "BioWare only makes X million dollars because I chose not to buy this game"?

I don't think that's the case, Loetek, and that's not the kind of "determine how much money bioWare can make" I was referring to, so perhaps I should be clearer. The market determines what BioWare makes, not individuals. Individuals do their part and, if enough of them do the same thing, it affects the market. That much I understand and I agree with you. Individuals can and do come together to affect the market.

But what I was referring to originally was people who erroneously believe that they know how much money is "enough" for a corporation. People who say that "BioWare doesn't need any more money, they've got enough" or "they made x millions on this game already, why do they need more?" or "I think x millions should be more than enough to pay their salaries."

As for consumer choice, I have always believed that buying a BioWare game is an option, a luxury. Not everyone who rails against BioWare believes that "optional" means "I can choose to not have it," however. Some folks apparently believe that "optional" means "but I waaaaaaaaant it!"

I hope that clarifies my position a little.

I believe Bioware (or EA... who ever is calling the shots now) is like any other company. They higher bean counters to calculate expected profits from expected products. Then managers of these bean counters take what they say as the holy word and anything under the expected is considerd a loss.

In Bioware (or EA,,, who ever) I honestly think the bean counters have factored in X amount dollors for DLC per year into there formula so that is what is expected from the people writing the paychecks.

When people (not just me. If you frequent these forums enough you will notice there are plenty of people that disagree with DLC) deside they are not paying for anymore DLC, because of quality or frequency or even because there are better free mods out there, its going to effect how much Bioware (who ever...) expects to make.

[Justin2k]

I like DLC if it is good DLC. It doesn't matter how long or short it is, as long as it is good.

The highlight of my game so far (incomplete) was fighting and beating the High Dragon. Personally I would have paid $5 for that fight,.  My failed attempts, the time it spent customizing Ohgren (My Man!!) to not die at 10% and the thrill to beat it was probably more than any World Of Warcraft boss, which i didn't think was possible in a single player game.  I would like to see DLC including quality boss fights that make me cheer when I win.

If anyone from Bioware is reading this, I'd like a high level dungeon with 3-6 bosses that look cool, are challenging and require tactics to defeat like said dragon and the broodmother.  Throw in some nasty trash pulls too.  I'd also like to visit Orlais at some time. Their accents are sexy.

Just saying :-)

Modifié par Justin2k, 28 novembre 2009 - 02:18 .

[ozenglish]

Gabochido wrote...

Having said that, I've been making sure to tell our designers that there's a loud group of people in the forums that only seem to care about the length of what they get.

I am sure if Bioware designed those too, and sold them in their online store, there would be a demand and many people would complain that they aren't long enough, and still refuse to fit their needs.

[Loetek]

Justin2k wrote...

I like DLC if it is good DLC. It doesn't matter how long or short it is, as long as it is good.

The highlight of my game so far (incomplete) was fighting and beating the High Dragon. Personally I would have paid $5 for that fight and would like to see DLC including quality boss fights that make me cheer when I win.

If anyone from Bioware is reading this, I'd like a dungeon with 5-6 bosses that look cool, are challenging and require tactics to defeat like said dragon and the broodmother. I'd also like to visit Orlais at some time. Their accents are sexy.

Just saying :-)

this

[ozenglish]

Fredescu wrote...

If Bioware don't make a lot of money from DLC, I'd say this will be the last big budget PC focused RPG we'll ever see. Personally I would buy $5 DLC of Leliana reading her shopping list in the vain hope that more of this type of game gets made.

You and me both my friend, you and me both. Especially if she tells me I am a softie for reading it...

[TomBrokaw]

I've always been for dlc as it is a way for quality companies to continue making profit from properties that under the old model would just lay stagnant.   Bioware is a quality company and I want to support it.

But I was not satisfied with the value of warden's keep.  If ostagar is has similar length/value, I won't be buying more dlc.  

In the future the only thing I demand is honesty regarding what we are paying for.  People play at different speeds but an accurate range can still be put on the product, e.g. 2-4 hours etc.

[Ub3r_]

i thought both were slightly over priced, Stone Prisoner should only be $10 and Wardens Keep $5, however i'm not going to compare stone prisoner as it was released free with all first run copies of the game, however Wardens Keep, here is the content and why i think it was overpriced a little:



1. New game area (short Dungeon + Story) $2

2. Related Content (storage chest, unique armor, unique sword/superman easter egg) $2

3. 4 Unique free skills (2 for rogue/warrior, 2 for mage) $1



if you look at stone prisoner, with the same things in mind



1. New game area (about a mid dungeon size) $3

2. Related Content (Crystal armor/weapons for shale) $1

3. New Character (Shale, complete with interesting interactions in the rest of the game) $5-$7



i think when people are so fast to criticize just length, and fail to take into account other aspects, then they will always come out as sounding like they were somehow ripped off. You need to look at the package in terms of how it enhances the rest of the gameplay experience, not just the new area that is offered.



If i was going to price Ostagar, here is what i would aim for (from what ive read about it)

1. New (ish) game area (hopefully a mid sized dungeon) $2

2. Related Content (kings armor, Duncans armor??(i hope!) + possible other items?) $2

3. Chance to get Dog again (for those who missed it) $0



so $5 in bioware's terms seems to match thier valueing on the other two DLC that has been offered. I think its only worth $4, but if you look at how i priced the others, it scales about the same as biowares.

[Taerda]

ComTrav wrote...Single-player RPGs are a genre that's in decline as a number of people try to get in on the MMO gravy train.

Personally, I would like a larger, well-integrated, area with a decent-sized internal story to the smaller-scale DLC content we're getting, and I would of course be willing to pay more for it. I think people who say they would rather have an 'expansion' mean ("DLC" is just a delivery mechanism, and can mean a large content chunk as much as much as a small one.) I understand Bioware to satisfy a variety of consumers, and I'm hopeful that this 'we have lots planned, but everything is always on the move simultaneously, so we can't comment' means that eventually we'll get a 'big and beefy' add-on.

I suspect, though, that if they announced a large 'expansion' so soon after release, a lot of people would complain. (I suppose it's inevitable people on the forums will complain...)

From my perspective, especially with the consolidation within the gaming industry that has been going on for the past decade, that what we are seeing is that the market for single-player RPGs  still exist. In an attempt to achieve greater cost effectiveness and mass production value, it is continually being twisted, merged and turned by these companies into an attempt to find a larger market - they are trying to grow their audiences beyond what has been captured before.

Both the MMO and FPS stars are shining bright and hot close to their face as "recent" successes - but in the long run, by focusing on the true RPG gamer and her traits, better success will occur. Cross-overs will always be tried and touted as the next best thing since sliced bread (leader boards for single player RPGs? Does anyone really care what I "achieve" and they fail to?) but when houses focus on core material and true trait mapping, they will ensure they will survive and even thrive over the long run.

tldr;ver: the MMO/FPS siren may not live as long or sing as loud as doomsayers claim for the true single player RPG market. 

[Deathstyk85]

keep in mind, that the game was only released a month-ish ago. so chances are future dlcs will be more in depth and appealing. and if "how long content takes to play" is what concerns people, bioware could always make a 40 minute dlc, and then extend all the hallways by 50 times, so it takes you thirty minutes just to go from one room to the other ; )

as it is, we get the substance, with less filler tossed in there.

plus, you have to take into account, with a game as successful and with as huge a following as dragon age, if they didnt release ANY dlc content, and waited until they had something huge to send out, people would be foaming at the mouth and trying to storm the studios at bioware to get their hands on more dragon age content.

atleast thats how i see it playing out in my head.

[deano2099]

Gabochido wrote...

Hence, I have been making sure to tell the DLC team that playing time is what matters most to a lot of people.

Careful not to get caught up in the wailings of people on the forums without looking at what lies underneath. "I was dissapointed by the playtime length of Warden's Keep" is not the same thing as "Play time is what matters most".

Indeed, in most cases I think it's indicative of the fact that people were generally happy with the quality of the content, but wish there was more of it. Were that quality to drop, the same people would likely be saying "I was dissapointed in the quality of the new DLC" - people will always highlight the flaws in venues like this, rather than praising the good points.

There's also a big difference between play time and content. A dungeon with 100s of repetative battles would take longer to play, but not really have much content. If playtime was really all that mattered the DLC team may aswell just make Infinite Dungeons 2.0 and then go on holiday.

Game length can be artifically extended through repetition, backtracking and other such tricks. People don't want this, they want more actual content. A short play-time is indicative of a lack of content, and is often what people will first point to ("I finished it in 40 minutes") but the short play-time is not the actual problem, the lack of content is.

[Deathstyk85]

deano2099 wrote...

Gabochido wrote...

Hence, I have been making sure to tell the DLC team that playing time is what matters most to a lot of people.

Careful not to get caught up in the wailings of people on the forums without looking at what lies underneath. "I was dissapointed by the playtime length of Warden's Keep" is not the same thing as "Play time is what matters most".

Indeed, in most cases I think it's indicative of the fact that people were generally happy with the quality of the content, but wish there was more of it. Were that quality to drop, the same people would likely be saying "I was dissapointed in the quality of the new DLC" - people will always highlight the flaws in venues like this, rather than praising the good points.

There's also a big difference between play time and content. A dungeon with 100s of repetative battles would take longer to play, but not really have much content. If playtime was really all that mattered the DLC team may aswell just make Infinite Dungeons 2.0 and then go on holiday.

Game length can be artifically extended through repetition, backtracking and other such tricks. People don't want this, they want more actual content. A short play-time is indicative of a lack of content, and is often what people will first point to ("I finished it in 40 minutes") but the short play-time is not the actual problem, the lack of content is.

im pretty sure he was being sarcastic XD

[Deathstyk85]

Ub3r_

not to say that your "scale" is very flawed and or opinionated, well...actually yes that is what im saying lol

but first of all, keep in mind that the stone prisoner was free, unless you have a bootleg copy of dragon age, but then thats a whole nother story. anyway, if you buy the game, you get it for 0$

many people see that it has a 15$ price tag and whine, but i mean, for about 99% of the people who have dragon age right now, it was free, and shouldnt even be considered in an argument

also, i didnt think the "chance to get dog" thing was that important either

but i read the forums a week or two ago, and youd be surprised how many people missed dog, leliana, and sten, and were asking if there was a way to fix that late in the game

so maybe for some people its a really awesome second chance.

also, you dont "really" know what all is going to be in the new dlc, just a semi vague description they put up. so forming an opinion based on "content" at this point is mostly guess work.

not saying your wrong, many people are probably fairly close as to what we will get in the new dlc

but, at the same time, i wouldnt be 100% convinced as to what im getting based on guess work.

[Ibn al Turki]

One positive aspect of all this complaining is that at least they want more.

[I HAS A FLAVOUR]

Loetek wrote...

i wouldnt bother with any DLC if i were you... make Bioware focus on big expansions... they are just going to nickel and dime us to death.

+1

[Hodges20xx]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Velez89 wrote...

Loetek wrote...
i wouldnt bother with any DLC if i were you... make Bioware focus on big expansions... they are just going to nickel and dime us to death.

Truth.

Opinion with little basis in fact, ignoring everything BioWare has said in these forums and all evidence to the contrary. This opinion relies on anti-corporate conspiracy theories that the consumer is the one who determines how much money a corporation can make and is entitled to approve of that company's methods, which is patently false.

We have already said that we are looking into various sizes and varieties of DLC, from small content packages to large content packages. Many forumites prefer less frequent, full-sized expansion packs, which is essentially "diming and quartering" you to death. Six of one, a half-dozen of the other. No matter your opinion, we will endeavour to give the community as a whole (and not a few vocal community members) what they want. Thank you.

just because you say you're "looking into it" doesn't mean you're going to make future DLC better honestly I thought Warden keep was better than stone prisoner enjoyed both but not worth $7 and $15 bucks(altough stone prisoner was free for those who purchase the game new.) It would be nice to release a sperate campian that is about 5 hours long episodic content.