21 réponses à ce sujet

[biowherewolf]

Is it me? or is this game needlessly harder that it... well.. needs to be?
 
I've got 2 games up and I'm around level 8 in each (mage and a warrior). I'm on medium difficulty. I'm going through the plot line quests and doing ok. But it's the random encounters (are they random?) that are just annoying. 

My fighter was in one of the cities. He finishes a quest to beat up some bullies. Tough fights, but ok. 
Then he rounds a corner and gets attacked by 12 archers. 12 -- hiding behind barrels. Oh, and there's a huge fire trap in front of them, just in case you decide to .. you know.. attack. 
Archers can stun. Now he's a fighter, and all. And avoids that well. But 12 attacks each round?
The best I've been able to do is take out about 1/2 the archers before the other half just turn my team into a pin cushion. 
So I load my other game. Seems the dark spawn have overrun one of the villages. So when I pass it, i get attacked by about a dozen archers again. My mage has better crowd control. So she does ok. Until the shade-things attack from behind. Great. The archers are so spread out, I can't get them all. Earthquake works pretty well, but it's the only wide effect spell I really have. 

I get the whole idea of making the game hard, and making the bad guys have some real tactics. But it seems like the attempt is just to mob the characters. Ok, i can lower the difficulty level, but this just seems a bit much to me. I expected the quests to be tough, and I don't mind an attack occasionally on the road, but I've lost more parties to bandit attacks in the forests than to the bosses at the end of the missions. 

Is it just me?
--B. Where

[Serenity84]

It's tricky, but doable. There is only one encounter in Denerim where there is virtually no hiding place. In the others you can find some small corner where you're out of sight of most the archers.

[Skellimancer]

Who would charge at twelve archers?



Use your head.

[Sloth Of Doom]

My suggestion is: Don't sand in fire in front of the archers who are obviously waiting for you. Grab some cover around the corner and make them come to you.



If you came around a corner in real life and some guy was standing behind an overturned car with an AK47, would you pick up a bat and wave it at him until he shot you?

[biowherewolf]

Skellimancer wrote...

Who would charge at twelve archers?

Use your head.

aside from hiding, what choice to I have? And the trap isn't even that close to the archers. 
--B. Where

[Lewc53]

I can't get past the first boss(Ogre) in the tower
fourth level.

I am a warrior, but my party has barely gotten
the Ogre to slightly lesss than 1/2.

I'd love to be able to get to other gratuitous
hard stuff

[vorian92]

once you learn to play the game is much easier.



I have the 360 version and just beat the game on Nightmare with a rogue PC, granted they are using Rose's Thorn and Fang (from the Alienage) and they tear **** up, its not uncommon to see BS for 80 +15 elemental damage and with momentum I have a ridiculous attack rate, dont even need specials, just have alistair taunt everything and my rogue will dismantle every enemy, Wynne and Leliana take care of CC with Pinning Shot, Distract, Scatter Shot, Crushing Prison, Glyph of Paralyze... etc, needless to say they lock ranged attackers down while my PC utterly demolishes all my enemies.



For those denerim packs the solution is simpler then you think, simply LoS the archers, and when then fumble around the corner nail em with a Scattershot and some acid nades and watch em go down fast.



Also knowing how to spec helps a great deal, there are far to many ****ty talents compared to good ones that unless you know what to look for you will be disappointed.



I found out that the Lacerate effects from dual wield tree and assasin tree are utter garbage as they tick for 1 dmg. For Momentum the reverse is true, it nearly doubles my attack speed turns my character into a veritable murder machine. And elemental damage and poisons on daggers+ weapon speed bonuses are imbalanced. There is no downside for putting a +5 fire dmg rune in a dagger over a 2h, which makes 2hs suck ass, they scale poorly and take ages to swing, now it it added damage based on swing speed I'd reassess my statement but until then this game favors super fast weapons.



Also for heavy armor enemies which 2handers supposedly excel, get Wynne to use Telekinetic weapon buff (I went for crushing Prison for the CC). I was BSing golems for 60 dmg with it and around 20 without.

[addiction21]

Skellimancer wrote...

Who would charge at twelve archers?

Use your head.

Me if they took my waffles...

Just to add something usefull take every chance to dictate the terms and place of the battle. If charging straight ahead does not work then try something else.

[Illiani]

Ok, a couple of things to take into consideration here that'll help you deal with the combats much easier:



1) Make sure you have a balanced party. Some combinations are better than others. For example you could have Leli', Wynn, Morrigan and yourself. But as soon as you get attacked by a swarm of melee types you're going to fall other.



2) Pause more in combat, some of the really hard fights can be made much easier just by pausing and planning your actions better. Don't try and rely on the same tactics each time, change and evolve to the situation at hand.



3) If you are still having trouble, just lower the difficulty. There is no shame in it and if it means you can actually survive fights then what is the harm. I'm playing through on Hard and there has been at least 1 battle where I had to lower the difficulty.



Now a couple of other things to take into consideration: Location. Some areas are designed for levels higher than 8. At your level I'd recommend hitting the Mage's Tower, then Redcliff. You can do Redcliff first, but I personally found Mages' Tower to be easier (although there are a couple of right bastard-battles in there). If you find yourself getting ass-raped in one location, try out another instead.



In DAO the 'random' encounters are not truly random. They are randomly generated from a set list, each encounter only spawning once. So once defeated you won't have to worry about that one spawning again. So far, I've found each of these encounters require different tactics. For example: in one, you're ambushed by a group led by an yellow-difficulty archer. The trick to that encounter is to kill him first, which ends the battle--easy. Experiment and as I mentioned before, try to avoid getting stuck doing the same tactics time and time again.



Archers can be a pain in the ass, even more so if you're using the beta hotfix like I am, but they have one major weakness: blocking. If you can pull yourself out of their line of sight they have to move before they can shoot you. By moving they pull themselves out of a built-in position and now are ripe for the kill. Sometimes they won't even pursue meaning you can take out the warriors without their archery support. Remember that golden word: tactics, DAO can't be won without them.



In your particular example, you turn the corner and find yourself getting attacked by archers behind barrels with a fire trap before them (smart bastards that they are). If I was you I'd just run back behind the corner and wait for them to come to me. When I was in Ostagar one of the biggest tricks I found was to control the battlefield. By triggering the encounter, then pulling back to a position I know I could defend, many, many, hard fights suddenly became manageable--and like I said before, I'm on Hard.



I hope these pointers help out, let me know how you get on with them.

[Ryk Niedzwiedzia]

I've also had some problems with random encounters - they are just too random, i.e. they don't seem to be selected according to your level. Just today, I was travelling with my lvl 8 party from Redcliffe to Circle Tower, when I was suddenly jumped by a Greater Shade and his 3 lesser friends - that means one orange and three yellows. The random encounter map this was on was effectively just a single small clearing, no cover, no higher ground, no nothing - like an arena. So no tactics to speak of, aside from using skills to optimize the situation.



I managed to win the battle, but I've lost a good amount of healing poultices and got nothing out of the fight, only some XP. I know how a game should be challenging, but when a random encounter on the road is more difficult than a bossfight, you know they've done something wrong.

[biowherewolf]

Thanks for all the comments:

Illiani wrote...
1) Make sure you have a balanced party. Some combinations are better than others. For example you could have Leli', Wynn, Morrigan and yourself. But as soon as you get attacked by a swarm of melee types you're going to fall other.

problem one.. of those, all i have is Morrigan. So I don't have much party selection. 

Moreover, Morrigan has no real crowd control spells. My mage has a couple, but against a bunch of archers, she usually falls. 

Illiani wrote...


2) Pause more in combat, some of the really hard fights can be made much easier just by pausing and planning your actions better. Don't try and rely on the same tactics each time, change and evolve to the situation at hand.

I pause constantly -- after each action, really. 

Illiani wrote...
3) If you are still having trouble, just lower the difficulty. There is no shame in it and if it means you can actually survive fights then what is the harm. I'm playing through on Hard and there has been at least 1 battle where I had to lower the difficulty.

Yeah, i know i can do that. But I have a hard time feeling like i should. 

Illiani wrote...
Now a couple of other things to take into consideration: Location. Some areas are designed for levels higher than 8.

i think that's a good point. And it disappoints  s me a bit.  

Illiani wrote...
Archers can be a pain ... one major weakness: blocking.

That's another problem. I can rarely find a good place to block. I had one fight where i was hidden behind a pine tree -- convinced I was safe, only to have them shoot through it (I survived and all, but...). 
The fight in the city that I mentioned, I can't find a safe place. the one outside the village is even worse. It's not the expected fights that get me, but the encounters where you have no real choice where the battle happens. You can't back up since the way back is blocked. You can hide, because there's not much to hid behind, and you can't really go forward.

(and don't get me started on the cut scenes where you cleverly place your troops only to have them magically appear in the center of the room for the animation...)

Illiani wrote...


In your particular example, y...  run back behind the corner and wait for them to come to me.

tried that.. even ran up the little platform to make a few of them have to climb the stairs to get a good shot. But all they do is just fill the courtyard and spread out. You avoid the barrels and the fire, but ... that's about the only benefit. 

Illiani wrote...
I hope these pointers help out, let me know how you get on with them.

Thanks. 
I have to confess that this isn't the first rpg/combat/tactical game i've played. And sometimes, it's great. The dungeon scenes are (generally) ok. But these things where you get hammered are making the game a lot less fun. I think if I could scout out the area better or choose the battle a bit, it wouldn't bug me. But I must just be missing how to do that. 
I'll probably try again a few times but if I can't get it, it may just be time to switch games. I like the game. But I don't love it. So.. we'll see. 
--B. Where. 

[Loc'n'lol]

Lewc53 wrote...

I can't get past the first boss(Ogre) in the tower
fourth level.

I am a warrior, but my party has barely gotten
the Ogre to slightly lesss than 1/2.

Protip : To defeat the Ogre, hit it with your sword until it dies.

[Loc'n'lol]

Ryk Niedzwiedzia wrote...

that means one orange and three yellows.

Are you SURE about that ? That sounds like an almost impossible fight. Typically there is never more than one elite with a boss, and I've yet to see a boss in an actual random encounter (that is to say, not a not-so-random encounter that is actually triggered by a sidequest)

[Vicious]

For the Melees. Sword&Shield is decent, 2Hand sucks. Their only real upside is better damage resistance and Knockdown protection for Sword&Shield, and Indomitable in the 2hand tree.


Dual Wield outshines them both. In a big way. Sword and Shield is slow and 2Hand is EXTREMELY slow.  I don't know about you, but I like it when my character is the one to get the fancy animated killing blow.

Modifié par Vicious, 26 novembre 2009 - 03:55 .

[tanglefoot79]

Vicious wrote...

For the Melees. Sword&Shield is decent, 2Hand sucks. Their only real upside is better damage resistance and Knockdown protection for Sword&Shield, and Indomitable in the 2hand tree.


Dual Wield outshines them both. In a big way. Sword and Shield is slow and 2Hand is EXTREMELY slow.  I don't know about you, but I like it when my character is the one to get the fancy animated killing blow.

I found my Two-handed warrior to be rough at the beginning, but once I maxed out the talent tree things picked up nicely. I hit for plenty of damage, helped chew down high armor targets faster and Two Handed Sweep did wonders for lightening the load on my healer.  Between The sweep and mind blast I could have most elites down before the greys had a chance to do much damage to Al at all.

My Dalish warrior was no rogue, but far from a slouch in damage and dammed useful if you ask me.

If I had it to do all over again I'd max out the two hand talents first instead of mucking around with the general warrior talents.

[Ryk Niedzwiedzia]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

Ryk Niedzwiedzia wrote...

that means one orange and three yellows.

Are you SURE about that ? That sounds like an almost impossible fight. Typically there is never more than one elite with a boss, and I've yet to see a boss in an actual random encounter (that is to say, not a not-so-random encounter that is actually triggered by a sidequest)

Yes, I am sure, I was surprised as well, wouldn't have posted if I weren't... To be honest, aside from the shades, there was also a corpse with a joke note on them, so it was probably a random event like in the old Fallouts, and the "boss and three elites" was caused by my party being relatively low-level. Still, things like that just shouldn't happen.

Oh yes, and the fight was almost impossible, they were able to chew me down from max to almost no HP in 2-3 seconds, so my tactics was pretty much using Taunt and drinking health poultices all the time while the rest of my party dealt damage. I don't have a dedicated healer yet, unfortunately...

[Lisa767]

biowherewolf wrote...

aside from hiding, what choice to I have? And the trap isn't even that close to the archers. 
--B. Where

I think I may know what random encounter you ran into. If it's the one I think of you have like a portal (or open space between two walls) with a fire-trap just when you pass between, and there are a bunch of archers to the right (3-4) and even more foes to the left?

It's much easier if you can split that encounter.  I did it by casting Inferno (and then earthquake) around the corner as you can cast some 4th lvl AE spells without line of sight. That decimates them quickly.

Or just run over the fire-trap in the portal and then run back again. Be ready with either glyph spells, traps or preferably AE cc-spells (like sleep) to handle the bunch that survives and comes storming through the opening.

Hope it helps.

Modifié par Lisa767, 26 novembre 2009 - 10:43 .

[JJM152]

You know, considering how many people have trouble with NPC archers, I don't see a heck of a lot of discussion about the Heroic Aura spell.

[Looy]

Mass Archers + Scattershot = The worst part of dragon age!

Seriously, there was one bit in the alienage quest where 4 archers scattershotted the party after each other, it killed Morrigan and Leli leaving the me and ohgren to die quickly afterwards.

[Loc'n'lol]

Looy wrote...

Mass Archers + Scattershot = The worst part of dragon age!

The dex hotfix makes it worse...

I agree, Scattershot is way too good to be given to random mooks. Elites and bosses ? Sure, why not.

It's like... you meet 4 mages who immediately cast crushing prison on each member of your party on sight, what do you do ? nothing, you're screwed.