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Mass Effect 3 - Endings


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#251
Paparob

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DiegoProgMetal wrote...

There are several issues. I'd like to point ONE of them. Why and how synthetic life just vanishes when I choose the "destroy". If Shepard can survive the "Destroy" ending, considering the Lazarus Project used Reaper tech to rebuild him, why should the Geth and EDI be destroyed too? You would say "Because both Geth and EDI uses reaper tech." But as I said, Shepard too. Yet he can survive.
Can someone explain the logic behind it to me? I think I'm too stupid to understand it by myself.

I think by "synthetic" they mean Reapers because otherwise Joker would be flat out crushed by EDI's death, certainly not smiling like he was.

Modifié par Paparob, 08 mars 2012 - 12:00 .


#252
IanPolaris

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DiegoProgMetal wrote...

There are several issues. I'd like to point ONE of them. Why and how synthetic life just vanishes when I choose the "destroy". If Shepard can survive the "Destroy" ending, considering the Lazarus Project used Reaper tech to rebuild him, why should the Geth and EDI be destroyed too? You would say "Because both Geth and EDI uses reaper tech." But as I said, Shepard too. Yet he can survive.
Can someone explain the logic behind it to me? I think I'm too stupid to understand it by myself.


Shepard wasn't rebuilt with reaper tech.  Both Edi and the Geth were (the Geth did this to themselves voluntarily to achieve true sentience).  That seems to be the difference.  (If Shep were rebuilt with Reaper tech, he too would be unable to control the reapers for the same reason TIM couldn't...and wouldn't have been permitted to go as far as he did....)

-Polaris

#253
IanPolaris

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I have to say that having played through it completely for the first time and getting nearly all the paragon options (save only that I couldn't get TIM to kill himself), I find I have zero interest in replaying the game again even for full renegade which was my original plan.

Why? Because paragon or renegade doesn't matter any more. The ending(s) are all the same and they all suck so what does it matter how you get there?

-Polaris

#254
d-boy15

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<p>Why can't this game story is just "there a big bad robot out there that need to be blow" I think when the game pass the point where you confront with Illusive man, there's no need to complicated thing, just only give us a big epic ending with two simple choice(Paragon/Renegade) like before.Blow Reaper (Paragon)Control Reaper (Renegade)Shepard, Fleet, Squad Mate and Earth status are depend on War Asset</p>

Modifié par d-boy15, 08 mars 2012 - 12:11 .


#255
IanPolaris

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d-boy15 wrote...

<p>Why can't this game story is just "there a big bad robot out there that need to be blow" I think when the game pass the point where you confront with Illusive man, there's no need to complicated thing, just only give us a big epic ending with two simple choice(Paragon/Renegade) like before.</p>
<p>Blow Reaper (Paragon)</p>
<p>Control Reaper (Renegade)</p>
<p>Shepard, Fleet, Squad Mate and Earth status are depend on War Asset</p>


I could live with that even if I would prefer something with a bit more meat on it.  At the very least keep the damn relays intact except perhaps for a particularly pernicious (or insightful?) ending.  At least give us (the player) the CHOICE whether or not we want to destroy the galaxy as we know it or not and make that depend on what we''ve accomplished in the game.

-Polaris

#256
RiouHotaru

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IanPolaris wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

I never understood this "The game's last 15 invalidated everything I did."

No it didn't, it's just like ME1 and 2. Regardless of the decisions and choices you make, you're presented with a selection of endings. How successful you are at getting that ending (at least in ME2) depended on other choices, but overall the choices remained the same.


Of course it did.  I don't expect you to understand this since you seem to apologize for every BW misstep these days, but honesty, without the mass relays, the galaxy falls into a new dark age at best.  The mass relays are essential for galactic civilization as presented in the ME universe and ALL possible choices destroy this and with it the game world.

Without that game world, then nothing else you have chosen in the game matters.  At all.

-Polaris


...I like how I come up with reasonable arguments and I'm suddenly an apologist.  I'm not even going to bother trying to debate this with you at this point.

If you can't see the silver lining, I see no reason to explain it.

#257
Phydeaux314

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Here's my take on things.

The vast majority of the game is, without a doubt, amazing. I laughed, I cried, I shouted in exultation at the sheer awesomeness of the things that were happening in the world that I had come to care so much for. From the amazing character development, to the voice acting, the challenge, the visuals, the music, the sound, the sheer breadth and depth of the story, I was enthralled. It was a rollercoaster that I didn't ever want to get off of, and when I was forced to – by such silly things as real life – my mind was always on getting back to the game and just seeing what would happen next.

I was a little disappointed by the whole “crucible” idea from when I heard about it on Mars, but I understand the corner that the writers had painted themselves into and that there would need to be some kind of major miracle to beat the simple problems of scale: Treaties limit council races to X dreadnaughts, one reaper can easily trash Y dreadnaughts, there are Z reapers coming to harvest/destroy/whatever the galaxy... wait, crap, even if we gathered every ship and gave them all really big guns, they still couldn't stop them conventionally. I think it could have been better-handled, but you know what, it's okay, I can work with that. It rankled a little, but in the grand scheme of things, it didn't really break my suspension of disbelief that much. Everything else was awesome, and it was nice having a unifying point for all the non-military folks we ended up working with. Things are still pretty bloody awesome.

Then I got to the end.

The ending to this series felt like a betrayal, on so many different levels. I had expected to be vaguely sad that the story was over – that's typical of any amazing work – but satisfied and grinning like an idiot after going on such an amazing ride. Instead, it left such a sour note in my mouth that I'm starting to wish I hadn't played, because it's really hard not to let the ending ruin the entire experience for me.

First off, it's a betrayal of one of the central themes behind the entire series: The idea that your choices matter. One of the huge things that was promised for the third game, and that until the very end was was lived up to more spectacularly than I could have ever imagined, was the idea that every big or little thing you did mattered and would be noticed by people. You see it all over the place: Fail to finish a side quest, and it'll slightly affect the outcome of the story because your cruisers don't have enough engineers. It's part of what made the world so interesting, and made so many of us fans follow the series with passion. When every choice we make is rendered irrelevant, in the finale of the series for god's sake, it feels like a stab wound. Instead of getting to see how things play out – do the Quarians and the Geth get along, if they were convinced? What happens to the Krogan? Will the Asari and Turians rebuild? What will change in galactic governance now that the Citadel is relocated and/or blown up? – we are given no answers. The red ending precludes any answers from coming, the blue ending opens up a whole new can of worms with no answers whatsoever, and the green ending takes the galaxy in a completely new direction that would make more sense at the end of a bloody fairy tale! And nothing you did before that point means a damn.

Second, it betrays our expectation of the tone of the game. Mass Effect 2 was billed as the “darker sequel” to the first game, with more shades of gray and consequences for idealism and ruthlessness alike. By and large, it carried through on this: The game was darker. There wasn't a nice and happy solution to every problem. When a few people asked whether the third game would follow the trend, it was said that the game would be funnier, but serious as well. And it was – I laughed myself silly when I walked in on some of the conversations the crew members had, or at some of the deadpan humor. I was also incredibly impressed with how well the ramifications of an entire galaxy embroiled in conflict was hammered home. And then the ending comes, in which we almost invariably end up dead (but not really, or something), separated from our loved one (who is somehow on board the Normandy fleeing the Sol system, despite having been on the planet's surface not half an hour before, and also somehow managing to escape getting fried by the reaper super laser despite everyone else getting melted horribly), with absolutely zero chance of ever seeing Shepard again.

I really don't see “dead, or dead, or permanently separated from every single person you've ever known or cared about” as a “good ending” in any way, shape, or form. It's like they were really confused on how to deal with the “ascendance” part of the hero's journey.

Third, and this is the part that hurts most – we don't have closure on our story. It's bad enough having an ending that's a non sequitor and out of theme with the rest of the series. It's worse not being able to really pick the outcome that we want, and having all the individuality of our characters tossed away like useless rubbish. But the worst part is that everything is thrown away, and then we're denied the decency of an epilogue that at least explains how the people and characters we've followed for nearly a decade deal with the sudden radical change! Oh, and no, a silhouette of a father and son after the credits on some alien world talking about our character as though it were in the distant past does not count.

Do they hold a funeral? Is there a Dr. Bronner's “ALL ONE” cosmic shepard in the Green ending, or what? Hell, for that matter, why do the Reapers even leave? In the red ending, do all the Quarians and Turians starve to death before mass relays can be rebuilt, or is there enough on the liveships? What happened to everyone else in the ground war? In the blue ending, does Shepard still exist, and if so, can people talk to him/her?

In short, what happens?

 *deep breath*

I pray that the team isn't split up already, the writers on other projects and the voice actors off doing different work. It would be a terrible tragedy to end something so great like... this.

Modifié par Phydeaux314, 08 mars 2012 - 12:20 .


#258
IanPolaris

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RiouHotaru wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

I never understood this "The game's last 15 invalidated everything I did."

No it didn't, it's just like ME1 and 2. Regardless of the decisions and choices you make, you're presented with a selection of endings. How successful you are at getting that ending (at least in ME2) depended on other choices, but overall the choices remained the same.


Of course it did.  I don't expect you to understand this since you seem to apologize for every BW misstep these days, but honesty, without the mass relays, the galaxy falls into a new dark age at best.  The mass relays are essential for galactic civilization as presented in the ME universe and ALL possible choices destroy this and with it the game world.

Without that game world, then nothing else you have chosen in the game matters.  At all.

-Polaris


...I like how I come up with reasonable arguments and I'm suddenly an apologist.  I'm not even going to bother trying to debate this with you at this point.

If you can't see the silver lining, I see no reason to explain it.


You haven't come up with reasonable arguements for months.  I've been quiet until now on this particular topic because I wanted to play the entire game first to be FAIR.  However, the leaked spoilers were (mostely) right and the leaked endings were just as bad as advertised for reasons that I and others have tried to explain to you (some of my fellow posters have for months with you) but your prior posts havea  persistant pattern of "Bioware can do no wrong."

Thus, I would say that your actions lable you as an apologist and if that gets be banned from here then so be it.

-Polaris

#259
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Phydeaux314 wrote...
It would be a terrible tragedy to end something so great like... this.

I second that.

#260
RiouHotaru

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Haven't come up with reasonable arguments for months?

The endings looked bad because there was no context and no one had played the game yet. I had every reason to be skeptical. I was midly disappointed at no "sunshine and rainbows" ending, sure. But having played the game, and having gotten the "perfect" ending myself, I can say with certainty that it's a satisfactory ending.

There's enough vague details left and enough hints in the lore to show that it's a good enough ending for me.

And really Polaris, I haven't been on the BSN for "months" enough to argue with you. I only started arguing late Feburary when the Space Edition was out and about, which is hardly "months".

#261
d-boy15

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As I say before, I still prefer simple epic ending with strong writing instead of non-sense plot twist ending that can't even tell us why this and that can be happen.

#262
DiegoProgMetal

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Paparob wrote...

DiegoProgMetal wrote...

There are several issues. I'd like to point ONE of them. Why and how synthetic life just vanishes when I choose the "destroy". If Shepard can survive the "Destroy" ending, considering the Lazarus Project used Reaper tech to rebuild him, why should the Geth and EDI be destroyed too? You would say "Because both Geth and EDI uses reaper tech." But as I said, Shepard too. Yet he can survive. 
Can someone explain the logic behind it to me? I think I'm too stupid to understand it by myself.

I think by "synthetic" they mean Reapers because otherwise Joker would be flat out crushed by EDI's death, certainly not smiling like he was.

 

IanPolaris wrote...

DiegoProgMetal wrote...

There are several issues. I'd like to point ONE of them. Why and how synthetic life just vanishes when I choose the "destroy". If Shepard can survive the "Destroy" ending, considering the Lazarus Project used Reaper tech to rebuild him, why should the Geth and EDI be destroyed too? You would say "Because both Geth and EDI uses reaper tech." But as I said, Shepard too. Yet he can survive.
Can someone explain the logic behind it to me? I think I'm too stupid to understand it by myself.


Shepard wasn't rebuilt with reaper tech.  Both Edi and the Geth were (the Geth did this to themselves voluntarily to achieve true sentience).  That seems to be the difference.  (If Shep were rebuilt with Reaper tech, he too would be unable to control the reapers for the same reason TIM couldn't...and wouldn't have been permitted to go as far as he did....)

-Polaris


"You can wipe out ALL  synthetic life  if you want, including the Geth, even YOU  are partly synthetic..."
My english isn't that good, but I think this is what the Catalyst says.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiYLVhbLxz



He doesn't say "synthetic life based on reaper tech". He says ALL synthetic life. Yet Shepard may survive. Which leads to another plothole. How the f*** does the Deus Ex Machina knows what is synthetic life and what is just VI or even simple computer programs?


About Lazarus Project not using reaper tech, ok, there is no proof of that. I just assumed it had used because of the whole red eyes/scars Terminator like appearence. Yet the catalyst says "Even YOU are partly synthetic", which means its not only reaper tech synthetics that will be "wiped out".

Modifié par DiegoProgMetal, 08 mars 2012 - 01:13 .


#263
RiouHotaru

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The fact the Catalyst mentions that Shepard is partially organic and could be killed, but then DOESN'T die in the "perfect" ending means it's completely feasible that the Geth aren't wiped out.

#264
Bionic Weapon

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I'm sort of confused, if you play paragon all the way why is destroy still red? I assume that's a renegade choice? or is it just a color?

#265
JediNg

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Phydeaux314 wrote...

snip.


Nice analysis.  I agree with it.  I think what you meant to say is we are lacking an epilogue.
Because as you said, we built up all these alliances.  But now, the citadel is destroyed (in all endings) and the massive fleets of every major race in the ME universe is stranded in the Sol system.

The part that makes me the feel saddest is shepard 'dying' and his companions being stranded and not knowing what happened to him/her.  It's not craapy; its just sad.

Something brighter would have involved Shepard not dying AND being stranded with his crewmates, together, at the least.  The best realistic outcome I can think of without just making up a blatantly uber happy ending is that shepard and crewmates get stranded with all the other races and in the sol system.  Otherwise I'd be pushing for reapers die; the 'god' thing goes away forever (I think it was unnecessary anyway and totally out of left field); mass relays stay working; citadel doesn't get destroyed  That'd be the wishful, everything-turns-out-perfect less realistic ending.

The ending(s) just never really reflect the idea that you will be remembered by your actions beyond the endings themselves.  You don't get the epilogue, which means you don't see how Krogan rejoin the non-existent galactic community as they said they would since the mass relays get annihilated, nor the quarians going through reacclimation to their homeworld which they cannot get back to, nor the geth helping them and both quarian and geth finally working together.

Rereading, it seems more like you just doom current galactic civilization by stranding all the military fleets in the Sol system, and more importantly, rendering the mass relay network inoperative.

Modifié par JediNg, 08 mars 2012 - 12:52 .


#266
Blindspy

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Phydeaux314 wrote...

Here's my take on things.

The vast majority of the game is, without a doubt, amazing. I laughed, I cried, I shouted in exultation at the sheer awesomeness of the things that were happening in the world that I had come to care so much for. From the amazing character development, to the voice acting, the challenge, the visuals, the music, the sound, the sheer breadth and depth of the story, I was enthralled. It was a rollercoaster that I didn't ever want to get off of, and when I was forced to – by such silly things as real life – my mind was always on getting back to the game and just seeing what would happen next.

I was a little disappointed by the whole “crucible” idea from when I heard about it on Mars, but I understand the corner that the writers had painted themselves into and that there would need to be some kind of major miracle to beat the simple problems of scale: Treaties limit council races to X dreadnaughts, one reaper can easily trash Y dreadnaughts, there are Z reapers coming to harvest/destroy/whatever the galaxy... wait, crap, even if we gathered every ship and gave them all really big guns, they still couldn't stop them conventionally. I think it could have been better-handled, but you know what, it's okay, I can work with that. It rankled a little, but in the grand scheme of things, it didn't really break my suspension of disbelief that much. Everything else was awesome, and it was nice having a unifying point for all the non-military folks we ended up working with. Things are still pretty bloody awesome.

Then I got to the end.

The ending to this series felt like a betrayal, on so many different levels. I had expected to be vaguely sad that the story was over – that's typical of any amazing work – but satisfied and grinning like an idiot after going on such an amazing ride. Instead, it left such a sour note in my mouth that I'm starting to wish I hadn't played, because it's really hard not to let the ending ruin the entire experience for me.

First off, it's a betrayal of one of the central themes behind the entire series: The idea that your choices matter. One of the huge things that was promised for the third game, and that until the very end was was lived up to more spectacularly than I could have ever imagined, was the idea that every big or little thing you did mattered and would be noticed by people. You see it all over the place: Fail to finish a side quest, and it'll slightly affect the outcome of the story because your cruisers don't have enough engineers. It's part of what made the world so interesting, and made so many of us fans follow the series with passion. When every choice we make is rendered irrelevant, in the finale of the series for god's sake, it feels like a stab wound. Instead of getting to see how things play out – do the Quarians and the Geth get along, if they were convinced? What happens to the Krogan? Will the Asari and Turians rebuild? What will change in galactic governance now that the Citadel is relocated and/or blown up? – we are given no answers. The red ending precludes any answers from coming, the blue ending opens up a whole new can of worms with no answers whatsoever, and the green ending takes the galaxy in a completely new direction that would make more sense at the end of a bloody fairy tale! And nothing you did before that point means a damn.

Second, it betrays our expectation of the tone of the game. Mass Effect 2 was billed as the “darker sequel” to the first game, with more shades of gray and consequences for idealism and ruthlessness alike. By and large, it carried through on this: The game was darker. There wasn't a nice and happy solution to every problem. When a few people asked whether the third game would follow the trend, it was said that the game would be funnier, but serious as well. And it was – I laughed myself silly when I walked in on some of the conversations the crew members had, or at some of the deadpan humor. I was also incredibly impressed with how well the ramifications of an entire galaxy embroiled in conflict was hammered home. And then the ending comes, in which we almost invariably end up dead (but not really, or something), separated from our loved one (who is somehow on board the Normandy fleeing the Sol system, despite having been on the planet's surface not half an hour before, and also somehow managing to escape getting fried by the reaper super laser despite everyone else getting melted horribly), with absolutely zero chance of ever seeing Shepard again.

I really don't see “dead, or dead, or permanently separated from every single person you've ever known or cared about” as a “good ending” in any way, shape, or form. It's like they were really confused on how to deal with the “ascendance” part of the hero's journey.

Third, and this is the part that hurts most – we don't have closure on our story. It's bad enough having an ending that's a non sequitor and out of theme with the rest of the series. It's worse not being able to really pick the outcome that we want, and having all the individuality of our characters tossed away like useless rubbish. But the worst part is that everything is thrown away, and then we're denied the decency of an epilogue that at least explains how the people and characters we've followed for nearly a decade deal with the sudden radical change! Oh, and no, a silhouette of a father and son after the credits on some alien world talking about our character as though it were in the distant past does not count.

Do they hold a funeral? Is there a Dr. Bronner's “ALL ONE” cosmic shepard in the Green ending, or what? Hell, for that matter, why do the Reapers even leave? In the red ending, do all the Quarians and Turians starve to death before mass relays can be rebuilt, or is there enough on the liveships? What happened to everyone else in the ground war? In the blue ending, does Shepard still exist, and if so, can people talk to him/her?

In short, what happens?

 *deep breath*

I pray that the team isn't split up already, the writers on other projects and the voice actors off doing different work. It would be a terrible tragedy to end something so great like... this.


You absolutely hit the nail on the head with my thoughts on the game and ending.  Thank you for posting this so that I didn't have to take the time to.

#267
DiegoProgMetal

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RiouHotaru wrote...

The fact the Catalyst mentions that Shepard is partially organic and could be killed, but then DOESN'T die in the "perfect" ending means it's completely feasible that the Geth aren't wiped out.


Well, I hope so, because it would make the whole "battle" to make peace between Geth and Quarians useless. And a huge backstab at them and EDI. 
But, we need to "headcanon" these things. While one of the "Doctors" said there wouldn't be any unanswered questions... ???:mellow:???

Modifié par DiegoProgMetal, 08 mars 2012 - 12:53 .


#268
Wazooty

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Bionic Weapon wrote...

I'm sort of confused, if you play paragon all the way why is destroy still red? I assume that's a renegade choice? or is it just a color?


It also means all friendly synthetics (edi, geth) die as well. 

#269
Bionic Weapon

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Wazooty wrote...

Bionic Weapon wrote...

I'm sort of confused, if you play paragon all the way why is destroy still red? I assume that's a renegade choice? or is it just a color?


It also means all friendly synthetics (edi, geth) die as well. 


Yeah I know that but is it considered renegade?

#270
IanPolaris

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DiegoProgMetal wrote...

Paparob wrote...

DiegoProgMetal wrote...

There are several issues. I'd like to point ONE of them. Why and how synthetic life just vanishes when I choose the "destroy". If Shepard can survive the "Destroy" ending, considering the Lazarus Project used Reaper tech to rebuild him, why should the Geth and EDI be destroyed too? You would say "Because both Geth and EDI uses reaper tech." But as I said, Shepard too. Yet he can survive. 
Can someone explain the logic behind it to me? I think I'm too stupid to understand it by myself.

I think by "synthetic" they mean Reapers because otherwise Joker would be flat out crushed by EDI's death, certainly not smiling like he was.

 

IanPolaris wrote...

DiegoProgMetal wrote...

There are several issues. I'd like to point ONE of them. Why and how synthetic life just vanishes when I choose the "destroy". If Shepard can survive the "Destroy" ending, considering the Lazarus Project used Reaper tech to rebuild him, why should the Geth and EDI be destroyed too? You would say "Because both Geth and EDI uses reaper tech." But as I said, Shepard too. Yet he can survive.
Can someone explain the logic behind it to me? I think I'm too stupid to understand it by myself.


Shepard wasn't rebuilt with reaper tech.  Both Edi and the Geth were (the Geth did this to themselves voluntarily to achieve true sentience).  That seems to be the difference.  (If Shep were rebuilt with Reaper tech, he too would be unable to control the reapers for the same reason TIM couldn't...and wouldn't have been permitted to go as far as he did....)

-Polaris


"You can wipe out ALL  synthetic life  if you want, including the Geth... Even YOU  are partly synthetic..."
My english isn't that good, but I think this is what the Catalyst says.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiYLVhbLxz



He doesn't say "synthetic life based on reaper tech". He says ALL synthetic life. Yet Shepard may survive. Which leads to another plothole. How the f*** does the Deus Ex Machina knows what is synthetic life and what is just VI or even simple computer programs?


"Synthetic Life" as the term is used in the ME universe means "Artificial Intelligence" and is used as a "political correct" alternative (the codex in ME1 regarding AI even says as much).  Shepard may have synethic parts but by the 23rd century that is surely true of almost anyone.  Heck even in the early 21st century that is true for a lot of people (pace-makers anyone?).  As for only being Reaper Tech, you're right that the catalyst doesn't explicitly say this but it doesn't really have to either IMO.  How else could the Catalyst affect synethic life forms?

Also it's not cricket to seperate two entirely different paragraphs with entirely different context with a simple elipsis (the three dots).  The second statement about Shep being partially synthetic is true, but Sheps' MIND is fully organic and that's the part that matters here.  Shep is a cyborg but so too is a person with a pace-maker or an optical implant. 

About Lazarus Project not using reaper tech, ok, there is no proof of that. I just assumed it had used because of the whole red eyes/scars Terminator like appearence. Yet the catalyst says "Even YOU are partly synthetic", which means its not only reaper tech synthetics that will be "wiped out".


Again, simple common sense should be enough.  TIM was very explicit about keeping Shep just as he was with no chance of pyschological modifications even going against his top field operative (Miranda) recommendations.  TIM has been well aware of indoctination and it's effect for a very long time (longer than Saren even) and seemed to explicitly want to prevent even the smallest possibility of this happening when authorizing the Lazarus project.  Thus there is no way that TIM would use any Reaper tech in Shep since that would present an unacceptable risk. 
-Polaris

#271
IanPolaris

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Bionic Weapon wrote...

Wazooty wrote...

Bionic Weapon wrote...

I'm sort of confused, if you play paragon all the way why is destroy still red? I assume that's a renegade choice? or is it just a color?


It also means all friendly synthetics (edi, geth) die as well. 


Yeah I know that but is it considered renegade?


I don't believe so.  I think that destroy is supposed to be the paragon end. 

-Polaris

#272
Bionic Weapon

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IanPolaris wrote...

Bionic Weapon wrote...

Wazooty wrote...

Bionic Weapon wrote...

I'm sort of confused, if you play paragon all the way why is destroy still red? I assume that's a renegade choice? or is it just a color?


It also means all friendly synthetics (edi, geth) die as well. 


Yeah I know that but is it considered renegade?


I don't believe so.  I think that destroy is supposed to be the paragon end. 

-Polaris


Ok thanks for clearing this up. That confused the heck out of me.

I had the thinking of control is blue so that meant Paragon. Destroy was red so that meant Renegade, Synthesis was green which makes sense in a way so thats a non issue.

#273
DiegoProgMetal

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IanPolaris wrote...

DiegoProgMetal wrote...

Paparob wrote...

DiegoProgMetal wrote...

There are several issues. I'd like to point ONE of them. Why and how synthetic life just vanishes when I choose the "destroy". If Shepard can survive the "Destroy" ending, considering the Lazarus Project used Reaper tech to rebuild him, why should the Geth and EDI be destroyed too? You would say "Because both Geth and EDI uses reaper tech." But as I said, Shepard too. Yet he can survive. 
Can someone explain the logic behind it to me? I think I'm too stupid to understand it by myself.

I think by "synthetic" they mean Reapers because otherwise Joker would be flat out crushed by EDI's death, certainly not smiling like he was.

 

IanPolaris wrote...

DiegoProgMetal wrote...

There are several issues. I'd like to point ONE of them. Why and how synthetic life just vanishes when I choose the "destroy". If Shepard can survive the "Destroy" ending, considering the Lazarus Project used Reaper tech to rebuild him, why should the Geth and EDI be destroyed too? You would say "Because both Geth and EDI uses reaper tech." But as I said, Shepard too. Yet he can survive.
Can someone explain the logic behind it to me? I think I'm too stupid to understand it by myself.


Shepard wasn't rebuilt with reaper tech.  Both Edi and the Geth were (the Geth did this to themselves voluntarily to achieve true sentience).  That seems to be the difference.  (If Shep were rebuilt with Reaper tech, he too would be unable to control the reapers for the same reason TIM couldn't...and wouldn't have been permitted to go as far as he did....)

-Polaris


"You can wipe out ALL  synthetic life  if you want, including the Geth, even YOU  are partly synthetic..."
My english isn't that good, but I think this is what the Catalyst says.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiYLVhbLxz



He doesn't say "synthetic life based on reaper tech". He says ALL synthetic life. Yet Shepard may survive. Which leads to another plothole. How the f*** does the Deus Ex Machina knows what is synthetic life and what is just VI or even simple computer programs?


"Synthetic Life" as the term is used in the ME universe means "Artificial Intelligence" and is used as a "political correct" alternative (the codex in ME1 regarding AI even says as much).  Shepard may have synethic parts but by the 23rd century that is surely true of almost anyone.  Heck even in the early 21st century that is true for a lot of people (pace-makers anyone?).  As for only being Reaper Tech, you're right that the catalyst doesn't explicitly say this but it doesn't really have to either IMO.  How else could the Catalyst affect synethic life forms?

Also it's not cricket to seperate two entirely different paragraphs with entirely different context with a simple elipsis (the three dots).  The second statement about Shep being partially synthetic is true, but Sheps' MIND is fully organic and that's the part that matters here.  Shep is a cyborg but so too is a person with a pace-maker or an optical implant. 

About Lazarus Project not using reaper tech, ok, there is no proof of that. I just assumed it had used because of the whole red eyes/scars Terminator like appearence. Yet the catalyst says "Even YOU are partly synthetic", which means its not only reaper tech synthetics that will be "wiped out".


Again, simple common sense should be enough.  TIM was very explicit about keeping Shep just as he was with no chance of pyschological modifications even going against his top field operative (Miranda) recommendations.  TIM has been well aware of indoctination and it's effect for a very long time (longer than Saren even) and seemed to explicitly want to prevent even the smallest possibility of this happening when authorizing the Lazarus project.  Thus there is no way that TIM would use any Reaper tech in Shep since that would present an unacceptable risk. 
-Polaris



Actually, those paragraphs aren't entirely different nor have an entirely different context, it was just my bad writing skill. I even corrected that up there, because the Catalyst says that in one single sentence, take a look in the video, he says that at 4:40. And the Catalyst states clearly "ALL synthetic life". I don't think it leaves too much room for interpretation. And about the Lazarus project, what I wanted to say is that I assume my mistake, it was just a bad assumption by my part, but going back to the Catalyst, if you listen to what he says, you'll see that he says "even you are partly synthetic" giving the impression that "even Shepard will be wiped out". At least IMO. 

Oh, and I hope you don't think I'm arguing with you. I'm actually enjoying our conversation. And sorry for my bad english.

Unfortunately, I have to go now... will be back in a few hours. 

Modifié par DiegoProgMetal, 08 mars 2012 - 01:11 .


#274
Guest_920103db_*

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Sad face, nuff said.

#275
Phydeaux314

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The endings don't really fall into neat categories.

Blue is the least destructive, but carries a lot of risk. Unless Shepard just flies all the reapers into a star.
Red is incredibly destructive and disruptive, but all the consequences are obvious. I think it's also the only ending where Shepard lives - if I'm wrong on this, please correct me.
Green is something of a wildcard - nobody really knows where that one ends up.