1317 réponses à ce sujet

[Elessie]

For me it just seems like too much to have both these things happen:

1) Shepard dies, probably destroying the love interest if they were from ME1 and already had to deal with Shepard dying once. The only consolation is that if they are truly stranded on some planet as they seem to be, maybe they won't know.

2) Mass relays blow up, destroying the Mass Effect Universe as we know and love it. Everyone is stuck in their own little corner of the galaxy and all the forces massed at Earth are stranded there. The quarians that came to fight are never going to get to live on the homeworld they just got back. Places without quantum entanglement communication will never even know if their loves ones lived or died in the battle.

I don't expect a storybook happy ending but having both these happen is just too crushing for me.

[Necroscope]

Phydeaux314 wrote...

Here's my take on things.

The vast majority of the game is, without a doubt, amazing. I laughed, I cried, I shouted in exultation at the sheer awesomeness of the things that were happening in the world that I had come to care so much for. From the amazing character development, to the voice acting, the challenge, the visuals, the music, the sound, the sheer breadth and depth of the story, I was enthralled. It was a rollercoaster that I didn't ever want to get off of, and when I was forced to – by such silly things as real life – my mind was always on getting back to the game and just seeing what would happen next.

I was a little disappointed by the whole “crucible” idea from when I heard about it on Mars, but I understand the corner that the writers had painted themselves into and that there would need to be some kind of major miracle to beat the simple problems of scale: Treaties limit council races to X dreadnaughts, one reaper can easily trash Y dreadnaughts, there are Z reapers coming to harvest/destroy/whatever the galaxy... wait, crap, even if we gathered every ship and gave them all really big guns, they still couldn't stop them conventionally. I think it could have been better-handled, but you know what, it's okay, I can work with that. It rankled a little, but in the grand scheme of things, it didn't really break my suspension of disbelief that much. Everything else was awesome, and it was nice having a unifying point for all the non-military folks we ended up working with. Things are still pretty bloody awesome.

Then I got to the end.

The ending to this series felt like a betrayal, on so many different levels. I had expected to be vaguely sad that the story was over – that's typical of any amazing work – but satisfied and grinning like an idiot after going on such an amazing ride. Instead, it left such a sour note in my mouth that I'm starting to wish I hadn't played, because it's really hard not to let the ending ruin the entire experience for me.

First off, it's a betrayal of one of the central themes behind the entire series: The idea that your choices matter. One of the huge things that was promised for the third game, and that until the very end was was lived up to more spectacularly than I could have ever imagined, was the idea that every big or little thing you did mattered and would be noticed by people. You see it all over the place: Fail to finish a side quest, and it'll slightly affect the outcome of the story because your cruisers don't have enough engineers. It's part of what made the world so interesting, and made so many of us fans follow the series with passion. When every choice we make is rendered irrelevant, in the finale of the series for god's sake, it feels like a stab wound. Instead of getting to see how things play out – do the Quarians and the Geth get along, if they were convinced? What happens to the Krogan? Will the Asari and Turians rebuild? What will change in galactic governance now that the Citadel is relocated and/or blown up? – we are given no answers. The red ending precludes any answers from coming, the blue ending opens up a whole new can of worms with no answers whatsoever, and the green ending takes the galaxy in a completely new direction that would make more sense at the end of a bloody fairy tale! And nothing you did before that point means a damn.

Second, it betrays our expectation of the tone of the game. Mass Effect 2 was billed as the “darker sequel” to the first game, with more shades of gray and consequences for idealism and ruthlessness alike. By and large, it carried through on this: The game was darker. There wasn't a nice and happy solution to every problem. When a few people asked whether the third game would follow the trend, it was said that the game would be funnier, but serious as well. And it was – I laughed myself silly when I walked in on some of the conversations the crew members had, or at some of the deadpan humor. I was also incredibly impressed with how well the ramifications of an entire galaxy embroiled in conflict was hammered home. And then the ending comes, in which we almost invariably end up dead (but not really, or something), separated from our loved one (who is somehow on board the Normandy fleeing the Sol system, despite having been on the planet's surface not half an hour before, and also somehow managing to escape getting fried by the reaper super laser despite everyone else getting melted horribly), with absolutely zero chance of ever seeing Shepard again.

I really don't see “dead, or dead, or permanently separated from every single person you've ever known or cared about” as a “good ending” in any way, shape, or form. It's like they were really confused on how to deal with the “ascendance” part of the hero's journey.

Third, and this is the part that hurts most – we don't have closure on our story. It's bad enough having an ending that's a non sequitor and out of theme with the rest of the series. It's worse not being able to really pick the outcome that we want, and having all the individuality of our characters tossed away like useless rubbish. But the worst part is that everything is thrown away, and then we're denied the decency of an epilogue that at least explains how the people and characters we've followed for nearly a decade deal with the sudden radical change! Oh, and no, a silhouette of a father and son after the credits on some alien world talking about our character as though it were in the distant past does not count.

Do they hold a funeral? Is there a Dr. Bronner's “ALL ONE” cosmic shepard in the Green ending, or what? Hell, for that matter, why do the Reapers even leave? In the red ending, do all the Quarians and Turians starve to death before mass relays can be rebuilt, or is there enough on the liveships? What happened to everyone else in the ground war? In the blue ending, does Shepard still exist, and if so, can people talk to him/her?

In short, what happens?

 *deep breath*

I pray that the team isn't split up already, the writers on other projects and the voice actors off doing different work. It would be a terrible tragedy to end something so great like... this.

Good read - 100% agree.

[JediNg]

Phydeaux314 wrote...

The endings don't really fall into neat categories.

Blue is the least destructive, but carries a lot of risk. Unless Shepard just flies all the reapers into a star.
Red is incredibly destructive and disruptive, but all the consequences are obvious. I think it's also the only ending where Shepard lives - if I'm wrong on this, please correct me.
Green is something of a wildcard - nobody really knows where that one ends up.

Green or blue without requiring shepard to die, and shepard being stranded with his crewmates at the least, or with this crewmates and all the other races at best, would have been my personal 'ideal' ending. 

Modifié par JediNg, 08 mars 2012 - 01:25 .

[IanPolaris]

Elessie wrote...

For me it just seems like too much to have both these things happen:

1) Shepard dies, probably destroying the love interest if they were from ME1 and already had to deal with Shepard dying once. The only consolation is that if they are truly stranded on some planet as they seem to be, maybe they won't know.

2) Mass relays blow up, destroying the Mass Effect Universe as we know and love it. Everyone is stuck in their own little corner of the galaxy and all the forces massed at Earth are stranded there. The quarians that came to fight are never going to get to live on the homeworld they just got back. Places without quantum entanglement communication will never even know if their loves ones lived or died in the battle.

I don't expect a storybook happy ending but having both these happen is just too crushing for me.

Indeed.  The ending have pretty much destroyed any replayability for the game.  Frankly given the endings, I find myself almost hoping the Reapers would win because at least then some other civilization will be able to pick up the pieces and the Mass Effect universe will still go on. 



-Polaris

[Evil_medved]

JediNg wrote...

Phydeaux314 wrote...

The endings don't really fall into neat categories.

Blue is the least destructive, but carries a lot of risk. Unless Shepard just flies all the reapers into a star.
Red is incredibly destructive and disruptive, but all the consequences are obvious. I think it's also the only ending where Shepard lives - if I'm wrong on this, please correct me.
Green is something of a wildcard - nobody really knows where that one ends up.

Green or blue without requiring shepard to die, and shepard being stranded with his crewmates at the least, and with all the other races at best, would have been my personal 'ideal' ending. 

I am fine with green as it is. We dont wanna an other illusive man, eh? And shep isnt really dead, he just somewhat bodyless.

[Militarized]

Evil_medved wrote...

JediNg wrote...

Phydeaux314 wrote...

The endings don't really fall into neat categories.

Blue is the least destructive, but carries a lot of risk. Unless Shepard just flies all the reapers into a star.
Red is incredibly destructive and disruptive, but all the consequences are obvious. I think it's also the only ending where Shepard lives - if I'm wrong on this, please correct me.
Green is something of a wildcard - nobody really knows where that one ends up.

Green or blue without requiring shepard to die, and shepard being stranded with his crewmates at the least, and with all the other races at best, would have been my personal 'ideal' ending. 

I am fine with green as it is. We dont wanna an other illusive man, eh? And shep isnt really dead, he just somewhat bodyless.

How am I supposed to bang Jack if I'm bodyless? :-/. That's probably my biggest gripe honestly, no real love scene with some of your LI... sigh. 

[Paparob]

Objectively speaking its probably for the best to to get as high as humanly possible for the last 45 minutes of the game if you're aware of the endings and hate them. That way you'll be so baked out of your mind you won't really care about that you hated'em before and will think they were awesome. After that you should never pick up the game again, never read anything about Mass Effect 3's endings again and just remember the game as the greatest thing of your life.

Personally I'm alright with the endings.

Modifié par Paparob, 08 mars 2012 - 01:39 .

[Evil_medved]

Militarized wrote...

Evil_medved wrote...

JediNg wrote...

Phydeaux314 wrote...

The endings don't really fall into neat categories.

Blue is the least destructive, but carries a lot of risk. Unless Shepard just flies all the reapers into a star.
Red is incredibly destructive and disruptive, but all the consequences are obvious. I think it's also the only ending where Shepard lives - if I'm wrong on this, please correct me.
Green is something of a wildcard - nobody really knows where that one ends up.

Green or blue without requiring shepard to die, and shepard being stranded with his crewmates at the least, and with all the other races at best, would have been my personal 'ideal' ending. 

I am fine with green as it is. We dont wanna an other illusive man, eh? And shep isnt really dead, he just somewhat bodyless.

How am I supposed to bang Jack if I'm bodyless? :-/. That's probably my biggest gripe honestly, no real love scene with some of your LI... sigh. 

Well i got some from Tali, but i am not happy either. And only slim chance to survival leads trough total galactic destruction.

Aint gonna let that happen.

And i personally like the idea of being immortal leader of indestructible army.  Since having pretty slaves in tight otfits is not an option (due to bodyless), may as well do some good.

[hismastersvoice]

Or just stop playing right before the endgame sequence and enjoy a well made game that sadly lacks a proper ending.

Evil_medved wrote...

And i personally like the idea of
being immortal leader of indestructible army.  Since having pretty
slaves in tight otfits is not an option (due to bodyless), may as well
do some good.

You're a Reaper. Just make a host body for yourself. EDI managed just fine.

Modifié par hismastersvoice, 08 mars 2012 - 01:42 .

[OriginalTibs]

Look at the basic, nearly inescapable structure of any work of fiction. You have a beginning, introducing the characters and environment, then comes the body where the plot is developed, the environment fleshed out, the characters engaging and inviting buy-in, and all weaving around the story plot building tension, acceleration, and propelling you into the conclusion where everything comes together in a climax. Then the story, like a death, ends. Part of the trajedy of ending a tale told in first-person without benefit of an omniscient narrator is that you won't be informed of everything, happiness is relative, and there are consequences to the protagonist's decisions..

The endings are just fine. Consider the thought that art, to be art, must engender or communicate an intended effect in the auditor.

There is literary merit to each ending, and the evidence is in our reactions to them. An anguished resolution to the conflict is a valid conclusion.

Modifié par OriginalTibs, 08 mars 2012 - 02:28 .

[shnellegaming]

Necroscope wrote...

Phydeaux314 wrote...

Here's my take on things.

The vast majority of the game is, without a doubt, amazing. I laughed, I cried, I shouted in exultation at the sheer awesomeness of the things that were happening in the world that I had come to care so much for. From the amazing character development, to the voice acting, the challenge, the visuals, the music, the sound, the sheer breadth and depth of the story, I was enthralled. It was a rollercoaster that I didn't ever want to get off of, and when I was forced to – by such silly things as real life – my mind was always on getting back to the game and just seeing what would happen next.

I was a little disappointed by the whole “crucible” idea from when I heard about it on Mars, but I understand the corner that the writers had painted themselves into and that there would need to be some kind of major miracle to beat the simple problems of scale: Treaties limit council races to X dreadnaughts, one reaper can easily trash Y dreadnaughts, there are Z reapers coming to harvest/destroy/whatever the galaxy... wait, crap, even if we gathered every ship and gave them all really big guns, they still couldn't stop them conventionally. I think it could have been better-handled, but you know what, it's okay, I can work with that. It rankled a little, but in the grand scheme of things, it didn't really break my suspension of disbelief that much. Everything else was awesome, and it was nice having a unifying point for all the non-military folks we ended up working with. Things are still pretty bloody awesome.

Then I got to the end.

The ending to this series felt like a betrayal, on so many different levels. I had expected to be vaguely sad that the story was over – that's typical of any amazing work – but satisfied and grinning like an idiot after going on such an amazing ride. Instead, it left such a sour note in my mouth that I'm starting to wish I hadn't played, because it's really hard not to let the ending ruin the entire experience for me.

First off, it's a betrayal of one of the central themes behind the entire series: The idea that your choices matter. One of the huge things that was promised for the third game, and that until the very end was was lived up to more spectacularly than I could have ever imagined, was the idea that every big or little thing you did mattered and would be noticed by people. You see it all over the place: Fail to finish a side quest, and it'll slightly affect the outcome of the story because your cruisers don't have enough engineers. It's part of what made the world so interesting, and made so many of us fans follow the series with passion. When every choice we make is rendered irrelevant, in the finale of the series for god's sake, it feels like a stab wound. Instead of getting to see how things play out – do the Quarians and the Geth get along, if they were convinced? What happens to the Krogan? Will the Asari and Turians rebuild? What will change in galactic governance now that the Citadel is relocated and/or blown up? – we are given no answers. The red ending precludes any answers from coming, the blue ending opens up a whole new can of worms with no answers whatsoever, and the green ending takes the galaxy in a completely new direction that would make more sense at the end of a bloody fairy tale! And nothing you did before that point means a damn.

Second, it betrays our expectation of the tone of the game. Mass Effect 2 was billed as the “darker sequel” to the first game, with more shades of gray and consequences for idealism and ruthlessness alike. By and large, it carried through on this: The game was darker. There wasn't a nice and happy solution to every problem. When a few people asked whether the third game would follow the trend, it was said that the game would be funnier, but serious as well. And it was – I laughed myself silly when I walked in on some of the conversations the crew members had, or at some of the deadpan humor. I was also incredibly impressed with how well the ramifications of an entire galaxy embroiled in conflict was hammered home. And then the ending comes, in which we almost invariably end up dead (but not really, or something), separated from our loved one (who is somehow on board the Normandy fleeing the Sol system, despite having been on the planet's surface not half an hour before, and also somehow managing to escape getting fried by the reaper super laser despite everyone else getting melted horribly), with absolutely zero chance of ever seeing Shepard again.

I really don't see “dead, or dead, or permanently separated from every single person you've ever known or cared about” as a “good ending” in any way, shape, or form. It's like they were really confused on how to deal with the “ascendance” part of the hero's journey.

Third, and this is the part that hurts most – we don't have closure on our story. It's bad enough having an ending that's a non sequitor and out of theme with the rest of the series. It's worse not being able to really pick the outcome that we want, and having all the individuality of our characters tossed away like useless rubbish. But the worst part is that everything is thrown away, and then we're denied the decency of an epilogue that at least explains how the people and characters we've followed for nearly a decade deal with the sudden radical change! Oh, and no, a silhouette of a father and son after the credits on some alien world talking about our character as though it were in the distant past does not count.

Do they hold a funeral? Is there a Dr. Bronner's “ALL ONE” cosmic shepard in the Green ending, or what? Hell, for that matter, why do the Reapers even leave? In the red ending, do all the Quarians and Turians starve to death before mass relays can be rebuilt, or is there enough on the liveships? What happened to everyone else in the ground war? In the blue ending, does Shepard still exist, and if so, can people talk to him/her?

In short, what happens?

 *deep breath*

I pray that the team isn't split up already, the writers on other projects and the voice actors off doing different work. It would be a terrible tragedy to end something so great like... this.

Good read - 100% agree.

Also totally agree, and this says everything I'm feeling right here.  You should put this into a review and post it in their review thread.

Modifié par shnellegaming, 08 mars 2012 - 01:46 .

[Militarized]

OriginalTibs wrote...

There is literary merit to each ending, and the evidence is in our reactions to them..

I see zero merit in these endings besides the fact that the guy who wrote the ending needs to take some writing and philosophy classes... albeit the philosophy has nothing to do with ME anyway in my opinion. I liked ME so much because it seemed to be grounding it's self in real world ideas like Star Trek. Out the window that went when an all powerful AI can't fathom more then 3 decisions, all of which are terrible. 

[hismastersvoice]

OriginalTibs wrote...

There is literary merit to each ending(...)

We're talking about ME here. A franchise that defined itself with the multitude of choices it gave to the player and how those choices impacted the experience and possible outcomes. Making "literary sense" is worthless if it diminishes the game.

[SCJ90]

@Phydeaux314
I could not have said it better myself!

[Aeduz]

Anyone done a NG+ yet or working through it to see if there's a secret ending?

[OriginalTibs]

hismastersvoice wrote...

OriginalTibs wrote...

There is literary merit to each ending(...)

We're talking about ME here. A franchise that defined itself with the multitude of choices it gave to the player and how those choices impacted the experience and possible outcomes. Making "literary sense" is worthless if it diminishes the game.

Why do I feel like the last Prothean trying to talk some sense into primitive races?

[RiouHotaru]

OriginalTibs wrote...

hismastersvoice wrote...

OriginalTibs wrote...

There is literary merit to each ending(...)

We're talking about ME here. A franchise that defined itself with the multitude of choices it gave to the player and how those choices impacted the experience and possible outcomes. Making "literary sense" is worthless if it diminishes the game.

Why do I feel like the last Prothean trying to talk some sense into primitive races?

Apt analogy.

I understand what you're trying to do, and I agree with your stance.  But it's clear that even if the devs came out a revealed why they picked these endings that someone simply won't be satisfied.  Best you can do is enjoy what you can.

[WizenSlinky0]

OriginalTibs wrote...

Look at the basic, nearly inescapable structure of any work of fiction. You have a beginning, introducing the characters and environment, then comes the body where the plot is developed, the environment fleshed out, the characters engaging and inviting buy-in, and all weaving around the story plot building tension, acceleration, and propelling you into the conclusion where everything comes together in a climax. Then the story, like a death, ends. Part of the trajedy of ending a tale told in first-person without benefit of an omniscient narrator is that you won't be informed of everything, happiness is relative, and there are consequences to the protagonist's decisions..

The endings are just fine. Consider the thought that art, to be art, must engender or communicate an intented effect in the auditor.

There is literary merit to each ending, and the evidence is in our reactions to them. An anguished resolution to the conflict is a valid conclusion.

I can see your point but I can't necessary agree with it. The idea of choice in games begins to play with the idea of what it means to be a writer. In works such as this the player is actually the producer of the content. It's meant to produce unique experiences. I believe that principley damages the position of a developer to take on the stance of "it's our narrative arc" or "it's art and therefore fine". To a degree when you put together branching arc's like this you kind of have to remain consistant in order to maintain cohesion.

On top of that the endings themselves would have been fine. There's a lot tacked on however that drops the value of the whole package. Pointless grasps to emotion that don't move the story, arbitrary and incomprehensible happenings with no apparent explanation, and a mini spike of drama after the resolution of the story that actually damages the integreity of the entire narrative arc.

There is merit to the concepts I would agree. I would not agree that there is merit in their execution of them within the confines of the atmosphere they created. Also, it is not a matter of an "anguished resolution" so much as an "unsatisfying resolution". I have been satisfied by plenty of anguished or dark endings. This is not one of them.

Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 08 mars 2012 - 02:01 .

[deathscythe517]

Except the majority of people DO NOT like the ending. I do not understand why you cannot wrap your heads around this. What makes it okay for you to come in here and tell us we're wrong? I admit that current gaming generations have a bit of an entitlement complex but this was a genuine betrayal against people who were genuinely invested in the story. There are glaring plot holes from beginning to end, a nonsensical and unnecessary plot device (The Crucible), the INCREDIBLY UNLIKELY emotional trauma from the stupid kid dying and said kid turning out to be an abusive precursor with a bad case of circular logic that would have been satisfying if you could hack him and tell him to go **** himself.

I get it, you like the ending, good for you, most of the people who beat the game feel at worst betrayed and at best unsatisfied. I poured hours into this game only for Bioware to completely destroy the original focus of the games and shoehorn some Deus Ex crap in with an extra helping of plot holes and M. Night grade twists.

[SolidisusSnake1]

I was not happy with the ending at all and it really upset me but not in the way that most people here are complaining. First off I'm ok with the Mass Relays blowing up I actually predicted that since they are a Reaper construction, so I knew that in the end they were going to go bye bye. Which of course reinforces the notion of being broken free from the Reapers control and the Galaxy being dependent on itself for once.I'm even fine with Shepard dying, I mean do people really expect to ride off into the sunset with their LI happily ever after? This is a dark game where billions of people die every second so it was obvious sacrifices would have to be made.

No my concern is with the lack of closure and the choices at the end. For one we don't know any of the outcomes of our decisions besides a different color explosion. They could have at least given us a glimpse of Earth and the Galaxy post our end decision, perhaps show everyone rebuilding, celebrating, maybe a shot of our LI, but no we get nothing. Second the Normandy crash landing makes ZERO sense, why would it fly through a really during THE BATTLE FOR EARTH. And why would the people I took with me to enter the Citadel be there as well? That whole sequence is stupid.

But what I really hate are the choices, for one the stupid idiot kid/alien said that the Reapers are created because organics and synthetics cant get along. UM HELLO, I just united the Geth and the Quarians, and EDI is an AI that pilots my ship, all of them are working together and getting along. So that right there disproved his theory that the Reapers were needed, but nope he doesnt even take notice of this. And the ending choices felt way too Deus Ex except not done as clever or well thought out.

I mean the Synthesis ending was the same as every ending except people had a green glow, wtf. That should have more meaning. I mean if your going to riff off Deus Ex then go all the way, make Synthesis so that Shepard becomes a Reaper/God and heralds the galaxy into a new age. And I think in that ending the Relays should not have blown up.

Argghhh I'm so disappointed.

[shnellegaming]

double post

Modifié par shnellegaming, 08 mars 2012 - 02:20 .

[shnellegaming]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

There is merit to the concepts I would agree. I would not agree that there is merit in their execution of them within the confines of the atmosphere they created. Also, it is not a matter of an "anguished resolution" so much as an "unsatisfying resolution". I have been satisfied by plenty of anguished or dark endings. This is not one of them.

/agree

I wish so much I could be 'fine' with these endings.  They just make me feel so icky and depressed.  And I am writing a fanfic for different endings to try and cheer myself up lol.