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Mass Effect 3 - Endings


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#401
JediNg

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Nyaore wrote...

JediNg wrote...

Nyaore wrote...

And this is precisely why the saying 'it's the journey that matters' is complete and utter bull****. What's the point of even going on the journey if your final destination is a steaming hunk of dung? I had at least two other Shepards geared up for more playthroughs, and I'm honestly having a hard time talking myself into even bothering with their stories anymore. The journey was wonderful, but if I have nothing to look forward to at the end, why even make the attempt in the first place?


I think people just misuse that aphorism.  Yes it's the journey that matters and I agree.  But, You still have to make it somewhere desirable in order to reflect on the journey that brought you there.   What I think I'm trying to say is that the phrase is meant to remind you that you shouldn't forget what you went through to get to the destination, not that literally only the journey matters.

True, but when you have Mac Walters literally quoting the phrase "It's not the destination-it's the journey" then it starts to become apparent that that's exactly what was meant. It's one thing to remind ourselves and others that the journey is imporant, but it's another to imply that it's all that matters - which is what he was doing when he quoted and agree with that sentiment in the "Roadmap to Love and Happiness" article. That's what my post was referring to, and I apologize for not making that clearer.
Both should be important, not one over the other. Yet if one is bad, it can ruin your enjoyment of the other quite easily.


Yeah, precisely.
I feel like I went through all this just to end up in hell, because hell, it turns out, is all there is.  lol. I'm not using "hell" derisively here either just in case lol

Modifié par JediNg, 08 mars 2012 - 11:10 .


#402
f4rris

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My problem with the endings (as with most ppl)

The choices you made through 1-3 only affects the fleet size (well mostly)
The -biggest- issue I have tough, is the fact that, we do NOT get to see what happens with all the other races you either allied/helped or "screwed", that + the fact that the Normandy unexplained is in "FTL" when it was supposed to be fighting with the fleet, AND that crew don't hold some form of memorial or talk about what happend.

Other than the above, the endings are fine I guess.
I mean why would you think everything would be nice and dandy (well the Synthesis i guess is the "happiest" ending you can get), when you the whole game was dark and grim ^^

Furthermore, The ending didn't make me "choke up" or get sad, anywhere close to how I felt when for example Mordin died, or Legion.

Well that's my 2 cents

#403
djneohlp

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ok guys wait a minute..
lets step trough the "best" possible ending
Take Red (Shepard maybe survive (the breathing vid), in all others you are dead definitly), lets assume ALL crew members get stranded on that planet AND take the last two sentences of the final cutscene:

Kid: Tell me another story about this Shepard.
Stargazer: Its late but.. ok just ONE more story...


You won't bioware do yo?
PART 4?!?!?!??!1111
REALLY?!?!??!?!

Modifié par djneohlp, 08 mars 2012 - 11:14 .


#404
Freeway911

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"It's not the destination-it's the journey"

I don't care if it is going to be a wonderful journey if I get to the destination fall off a cliff to my death.

#405
Phydeaux314

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/conspiracytheory

The Old Guy gave a fast ending to Shepard's story so that he could get this kid to go to bed.

/end conspiracytheory

#406
Faraborne

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Its probably already been brought up, but does anyone else also have a problem that with the destruction of the Mass Relays means the destruction of every civilization in the galaxy? In arrival, the destruction of a Mass Relay was equivalent to a Super Nova. If I recall, Tuchanka, Palaven, Thessia, Earth, Sur'Kesh, Rannoch, etc etc etc were all in the same solar system as a Mass Relay. So anyway you slice it, the Reapers win. I have a big issue with that.

#407
Faraborne

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Its probably already been brought up, but does anyone else also have a problem that with the destruction of the Mass Relays means the destruction of every civilization in the galaxy? In arrival, the destruction of a Mass Relay was equivalent to a Super Nova. If I recall, Tuchanka, Palaven, Thessia, Earth, Sur'Kesh, Rannoch, etc etc etc were all in the same solar system as a Mass Relay. So anyway you slice it, the Reapers win. I have a big issue with that.

#408
Elessie

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djneohlp wrote...

ok guys wait a minute..
lets step trough the "best" possible ending
Take Red (Shepard maybe survive (the breathing vid), in all others you are dead definitly), lets assume ALL crew members get stranded on that planet AND take the last two sentences of the final cutscene:

Kid: Tell me another story about this Shepard.
Stargazer: Its late but.. ok just ONE more story...


You won't bioware do yo?
PART 4?!?!?!??!1111
REALLY?!?!??!?!


Well since right after this the game cuts back into the Normandy before you attack the Cerberus base, I thought this was an opening for DLC that happened before end game.

#409
djneohlp

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Elessie wrote...

Well since right after this the game cuts back into the Normandy before you attack the Cerberus base, I thought this was an opening for DLC that happened before end game.


could be possible that they add more endings with dlc..
but maybe they just cut back to finish unfinished business like future dlc that is installed after the playtrough to not have to play the whole game again.

from the "now" point a 4th game "could" be possible with that endings...

Modifié par djneohlp, 08 mars 2012 - 11:23 .


#410
Phydeaux314

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They dump you back there because there obviously isn't a continuation after the endgame, and attacking the Cerberus base is the start of said endgame. I really hope they release an "expanded ending" DLC. I'd replay the end for that. Or, hell, I'd replay the entire GAME for that.

#411
Almostfaceman

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Phydeaux314 wrote...

Well spoken, almostfaceman.


Thank you.

#412
Golferguy758

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When I can rush through the previous games not taking into consideration who or what i screw over. Not giving a damn about helping people unite the galaxy. Not having to even remotely think about what choices I make. and reach the SAME THREE ENDINGS as someone who took their time preparing. Took their time to be emotionally invested in their characters. To actually CARE about how they are going to save the galaxy I find it insulting.

I honestly feel disgusted at the treatment that was shown to the ending. The hard work that EVERYONE did on this game. The long nights, the long hours away from loved ones. The programmers, the marketers, each and every person who worked on ANY of the Mass Effect games to have their Opus, their jewel in the Bioware Crown be tarnished by this sort of ending. The writing up until the last 10 minutes of the game was some of the finest I'd ever had the privilege of seeing.

From Mordin singing to himself as he worked to finish the cure. The tremble in his voice from knowing he is going to die, but doing it anyways to save the race that he, himself, worked on to sterilize. All the way to Thane saying a prayer, not for himself, but for you, for Shepard, knowing that (s)he needs it more than he does.

Everything about this game was beautiful. I can handle the small bugs, I can handle the slightly annoying scanning. But watching the ending unravel as it did. No, I do not accept that. Too many people worked too hard on this game to have it be tarnished by those endings.

#413
lookingglassmind

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Faraborne wrote...

Its probably already been brought up, but does anyone else also have a problem that with the destruction of the Mass Relays means the destruction of every civilization in the galaxy? In arrival, the destruction of a Mass Relay was equivalent to a Super Nova. If I recall, Tuchanka, Palaven, Thessia, Earth, Sur'Kesh, Rannoch, etc etc etc were all in the same solar system as a Mass Relay. So anyway you slice it, the Reapers win. I have a big issue with that.


Saw that you posted this in another thread, so I'm not sure which one you're following, but --

Yeah. Exactly my thoughts. Which is why I went for Synthesis. I hated 'rewriting' people through their DNA, but the alternatives weren't much better. At least there is *some* form of self-determinism allowed with that ending. All others nulify it.

#414
Renjin

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First off let me say that i'm VERY disappointed in the endings of this game, however:

I think the IDEA of these endings could work, but Bioware COMPLETELY botched the execution. The "cycle" plot makes no sense without a backstory. So instead of being some revolutionary like: "The Citadel is a VI that controls these cycles because the first race, the builders, saw uprising after uprising of Synthetic life in their time, and so created a way to deal with it." 

Instead we get VI kid: "I'm the Guardian! We destroy life over and over because we can't let synthetics win!" Even though he's basically being a hypocrite. You know, Synthetic life destroying all organic life every 50,000 years.

Then of course, there is are the 3 endings. All of which I can work with. Accept the actual endings are all the same... With just slightly different dialog leading up to it, and meaning at the end. However, I wish there was a let Shepard live AND not kill the Geth and Edi.

The endings also raise some questions:
1: How did the crew get back to the ship? They were all on the planet kicking ass with me.
2: Why was joker in FTL running away from the energy thing?
3: Why were the Mass Effect engines on the Normandy Destroyed? 
4: Was ALL Mass Effect technology destroyed?
5: What happened to the HUGE FREAKING FLEET that was over Earth? How will they get home?

To sum up, the idea behind the endings could have worked. But in the execution of them, we are left with WAY to many unanswered questions, and no extra story to tell us how the galaxy sorts its self out.
On a side note: I forsee DLC EXPLAINING how it all works out! 

PS: WTB: Taking Back Omega DLC.

Edit:
Additional Questions:

What planet did they crash on?
Is there any technological development now?
What are the circumstances of the post reaper invasion recovery?
Are all the races that helped with the Earth liberation stuck on Earth now?
Since the Mass Relays are destroyed, is it even possible to travel between stars now?
Who was the Ghost Child at the end?
What happened to all the ME2 crew members? Live/die?
If the Crucible was the development of many races over many cycles, how was the information kept from the Reapers for so long?
Why was I expected to understand a decision that fundamentally changed the galaxy based on a few sentences from a Ghost Child?
How precisely would changing the DNA of the Galaxy to a tech/organic matrix prevent the inevitable wars between the constructed and the non-constructed?
If my LI lived, what happed to him/her/it?
If the Reapers kept saying that Shepard was unable to understand their motives, why was it so easy for a Ghost Child to explain it at the end?



Non-Setting questions:

Why was it preferable to have the endings be so similar in result rather then having dramatically different endings based on the player choices they consistently advertised? 

#415
JediNg

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Faraborne wrote...

Its probably already been brought up, but does anyone else also have a problem that with the destruction of the Mass Relays means the destruction of every civilization in the galaxy? In arrival, the destruction of a Mass Relay was equivalent to a Super Nova. If I recall, Tuchanka, Palaven, Thessia, Earth, Sur'Kesh, Rannoch, etc etc etc were all in the same solar system as a Mass Relay. So anyway you slice it, the Reapers win. I have a big issue with that.


I'm going to assume they didn't explode the way the Batarian relay did.  But even so, galactic civilization is cripped.  Only currently very young asari or maybe the next generation of asari have any chance of seeing Thessia again.

Quarians, Salarians, and Geth working together could probably figure something out to get back in touch with everyone again maybe, in terms of propulsion that is.  With the use of that QEC thing, maybe at least some of the galaxy could get back into communication with each other which would be uplifting too.  But that's never implied in the endings of course.  (try to imagine the vast numbers of people trying to use that communicator to get in touch with loved ones on opposite sides of the galaxy, scattered by the war with the reapers).

#416
tangalin

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djneohlp wrote...

Elessie wrote...

Well since right after this the game cuts back into the Normandy before you attack the Cerberus base, I thought this was an opening for DLC that happened before end game.


could be possible that they add more endings with dlc..
but maybe they just cut back to finish unfinished business like future dlc that is installed after the playtrough to not have to play the whole game again.

from the "now" point a 4th game "could" be possible with that endings...


Why on Earth would you want a fourth game when they couldn't even finish a third game properly? It's like getting kicked in the nuts and hoping the person who did it will kick you in the nuts again soon...

#417
archvonbaron

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As someone else said earlier in the thread I would actually kinda like it if it ended with you and Anderson sitting on that step while the weapon fired, much more of a poetic ending. The kid and explanation can go to hell. The whole philosophy bit was annoying and out of synch with the rest of the game.

I preferred my theory on the Reapers being a weapon build eons ago by a race desperate enough to build them without realizing what they were doing.

#418
Nick.Chabby

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I won't repeat what was already said many times. I agree about the bad quality of the ending. I just finished the game I feel -very- depressed and I don't have any motivation into another playthrough after a such big loss.

This being said, with ME2 and ME1, Bioware proven to be a DLC-lover. Some of ME2's DLC involved growing our chance of success in the Suicide Mission either by giving us new crew members whereas other DLC was about outcomes in ME3.

With ME3, we have one DLC already (I haven't played it yet) but I guess it's about some lore (Eden Prime), a new crew member (to confirm?) and adding War Assets...
The famous War Assets. What would be the point to release future DLC if :
1- The War Assets are pointless, the outcome remains the same
2- The players are disgusted by the ending and don't feel the need to play through it?

With ME2 at least, after the Suicide Mission, we had some sort of "peace-like" ambiance where we could do side-quest, missions and other stuffes without having at the back of our mind : "We're wasting time" or "Why should I bother, I will die anyway".

ME3 remove this. We don't have past-playthrough gameplay, we can't play after the credit, it just warps us back right before the Ceberus mission. Any additionnal DLC would be pointless becose of this, it leads to nothing.

So if they want to release DLC and save their 3rd game for future releases, they would need to fix the ending first to give us a reason to play through them, except if they decided they were done with the series and don't intend any additionnal DLCs.

#419
djneohlp

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tangalin wrote...

Why on Earth would you want a fourth game when they couldn't even finish a third game properly? It's like getting kicked in the nuts and hoping the person who did it will kick you in the nuts again soon...


i dont say i want..
what i want is anwsers to al that questions...
its just a simple thinktrough what "COULD" happen...
think back wat happend before ME2.. all that information about Shep dead...
and now there is a short cutscene where shep lies in debree breathing...

Modifié par djneohlp, 08 mars 2012 - 11:30 .


#420
djneohlp

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[quote]Nick.Chabby wrote...

With ME3, we have one DLC already (I haven't played it yet) but I guess it's about some lore (Eden Prime), a new crew member (to confirm?)
[/quote]
Confirmed
[/quote]

#421
sirgippy

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Yeah, I will add my voice to the pain. I just finished and definitely feel gutted. I wish the weapon would have just gone off while sitting with Andersen and be done with it. I had intended to jump immediately into another playthru but find myself just sitting here.

#422
djneohlp

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another possibillity:
they make such an b********sht end that you
a) buy dlc
B) to play the new content
c) to play the end again to see if something has changed...

#423
aim1essgun

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coldlogic82 wrote...

While I do believe that Mass Effect is a great game overall, I'm afraid I'm with majority on the issue of endings. I liked the game enough that I'm doing a replay (hoping to get the "secret ending" maybe?), and there's a lot of cool stuff in there. I loved the Geth missions (so creative) and the tension of the final missions. In fact, the ending is just about the only thing I didn't like in ME 3. Unfortunately, the ending is pretty important, and like a lot of bioware fans, I feel somewhat betrayed. But instead of just saying I feel betrayed because I "didn't like it" I want to offer a real crtical look at why, psychologically and artistically, the ending falls flat. Spoiler warning for any content beyond this point.

I think I can really pin down the majority of the issue to one thing. The relays. It seems like a small part of the disappointment, but upon reflection, I believe the destruction of the relays in all endings (known so far) is really what hurts. This is the soul of why the ending gives us a feeling of "nothing we did mattered." The entire series focuses on alien relations, the attempts at peace, and the problems stemming from this. It focuses on why people are united when they could be, on overcoming prejudice, and how difficult this really is. So we have the third installation in which the entire galaxy is finally united. We can end the war between Krogan and Turian, we can even end the war between Quarian and Geth, creating an amazing new partnership. All of these are obviously not "final" in their scope, as we know after the reaper invasion, it would be easy to start warring again. However, the idea is that there is at least the possibility. While the grander connotations are nice, it's actually the more immediate alliances that make the ending hurt. Simply put, we just spent 3 games helping people overcome prejudice and come together, and we just spent the final game uniting the entire galaxy under one banner. Then the mass relays go and that's all over. We just united the entire galaxy in a remarkably inspiritation manner, and then we get to the end and the game goes "haha, nice job, BAM, no more of that." I think a good half of the dissatisfaction comes from this point alone. Think aobut it. If we control the reapers by shepard sacrificing himself, that's sad, but hey, the whole galaxy can celebrate him and we can take what he built and see how long we can keep it up. If we go synthesis, fine, once again sad shepard dies, and for being one of the "better" endings it's awfully close to actually helping the reapers fulfill their goal, but, whatever, we're all under a great new framework of DNA, let's go celebrate and be happy and whatever. Finally, Shepard destroys the reapers and, quite sadly, the geth, making everything he for the quarians a waste of his time, but at least we all win and get to celebrate. Without the relays, the game implies that beyond quantum entanglement devices there isn't a means for communcation or travel around the galaxy in any reasonably timely manner. Hell, the relays being destroyed means the rest of the galaxy DOESN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. They can hope the relays got destroyed for a good reason, but, especially if you take the "advanced tech destruction" route, the galaxy cannot rest easy for at least a century while news of the victory actually makes its way to various corners of the galaxy, assuming it even can due to travelling constraints not addressed by technology BECAUSE the relays made them needless. So, in the biggest possible way, the destruction of the relays assures Shepard is NOT a legend, and everything he accomplished, in the third game especially, is almost entirely meaningless. The ending says, sure, you saved the universe, and sure, you probably couldn't have done it without doing everything you did in these games, but aside from the absolute most basic "you won because earth didn't explode," there is no victory. That hurts. That hurts a lot, and I'm amazed that isn't obvious to the story writers.

The second problem has to do with execution. This is where I think a lot of fans feel the most betrayed, whereas the relays gave us the most dissapointment. The final choices are solely based on war assets. Yes, the decisions you made had an impact on how many assets you acquired, how many different aliens you unite, and all that, but in the end, what's upsetting is that our choices don't in any way alter the final choices available to us. The destruction of the collector base becomes part of a math equation saying if picking one of the choices will blow up earth or not. It doesn't create a single ending that follows from that decision, nor does it affect what choices are available. It doesn't matter if you played just ME 3 or the whole series. It doesn't matter if you went paragon or renegade. It doesn't matter if you saved the geth or blew them up. No matter what you did, you get the same three choices, game over. In ME 2, whether or not you blew up the collector base at LEAST ended up with people saying diffferent things. By blowing it up, you get Miranda telling the Illusive Man to shove it, and you don't get that with ME 3. And another note on paragon vs renegade. In the final talk with the Illusive Man, for the two choices at least, taking a "special" paragon or renegade option has NO EFFECT ON THE CONVERSATION. Shepard maybe sounds a little smarter, or like he *should* influence something, but no matter what you pick, the Illusive Man says the same thing. Every time, every way. Now, I had my paragon meter maxed out and the third paragon dialogue option was still greyed out, so that may affect something, though I don't know what, and it's hard to imagine it erasing the other two major problems, that of the relay and the same three choices in all situations.

Next, the ending is ruined by the use of an unneeded element that actually creates less closure. That is the child. It's always fun, of course, to have mysterious characters, like that guy in Half Life, where we never really could figure out who he was, what he was doing, etc etc. Having that element run through a story can be exciting. The Illusive Man, for instance, was mysterious until the very end. Who's side was he really on, was he working with the reapers or against them, why did cerberus keep interfering, all these questions were kept alive and kicking until the end. That's cool. But introducing something like that as a resolution doesn't work. The "kid" introduced at the end raises too many questions. Yes, we know whatever it is controls the reapers, and that it is, in all probability, mostly synthetic. But why does it appear as that child? Does the way he appears have something to do with the dreams Shepard keeps having? Obviously whatever it is, it choose to appear the way it did, but there aren't enough clues as to why. There isn't enough information create even opposing opinions on who it was and what it wanted. The ONLY reason it was needed was to explain the choices Shepard had, and the voice of Harbinger explaining those choices probably wouldn't have pleased anyone. Something more a like a VI like Glyph would have been much more appropriate. You wouldn't even need to cut the dream sequences. The intent there is obvious. In fact, it's actually rather clever Shepard is haunted by this "spectre." Yes bioware, I got that reference, it was cute, but it just wasn't done right. People really wanted closure. Even something like "Shep got in there, found out the crucible was going to destroy all the mass relays because he had another techno-vision, but did it anyway cause living was more important," would have been better than "Shep got in there, at which point whatever is in charge of the reapers, whether an individual or mass consciousness, choose, for some reason we can only speculate, to appear to Shepard as a child that haunts his dreams (because the reapers are totally known for their clever word play, spectre, get it, haha), and told him his master plan to save all life by destroying it wasn't going to work, so instead of letting the people that beat him decide what to do, he presented him with three set in stone options that allowed people to live, but basically made everthing he did a little on the pointless side."

And finally, on that note, I believe the serious closure problems finished the job. Just all the loose ends. If you choose to romance someone, well, they have to go on without you. Yeah, that could happen in ME 2, but at least in ME 2 it was also completely avoidable. It's most upsetting if you pursued a romance for all three games, say, with Liara. It's like, in the end, yeah, that romance just didn't work out. Then there's the lack of "logistical" closure. Yay, the galaxy is saved, but, not yay, the entire galatic fleet (minus the races you pissed off) is now stuck near earth. So EDI points out feeding the Krogan is going to be problematic. So, um, yay the reapers are gone, now do we stop the krogan from killing us all for food? Same problem with Turians? It doesn't create a feeling of "all right, all the races are going to live on earth, cool." It's "all the races are now in a logistical nightmare, how the hell are we going to solve that?" There is no answer.

So, those major points are, I believe, why the ending was unsuccessful. In order of priority. Really, I honestly believe a lot more people would have been okay with "sad" endings if the relays didn't have to go. Maybe that's what bioware wanted, maybe they wanted to say "survival at all costs, and that cost can be pretty damn high." I don't think people were upset because fo the blunt "sad" emotion that the endings tended to bring out.

On a final note, I do want to say I'm pretty sure Bioware has a happier ending up its sleeve in the form of DLC or an expansion or something like that. From a business standpoint, it's risky, but it usually works. Bait people, give them a crappy ending, and then say "we just released one that does suck" and people who were upset flock in to buy it. I don't think that means bioware has no integrity. It would just mean they took a route that, while effective, is awfully irritating.


Quoting because it was on the bottom of a page and it deserves to be read. 

#424
Renjin

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sirgippy wrote...

Yeah, I will add my voice to the pain. I just finished and definitely feel gutted. I wish the weapon would have just gone off while sitting with Andersen and be done with it. I had intended to jump immediately into another playthru but find myself just sitting here.


I was EXACTLY the same. I came into this game wish so much excitement, and then I hit the ending. And I basically feel like my heart is broken. I have no passion to play again right now.

#425
Lost Cipher

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Renjin wrote...

First off let me say that i'm VERY disappointed in the endings of this game, however:

I think the IDEA of these endings could work, but Bioware COMPLETELY botched the execution. The "cycle" plot makes no sense without a backstory. So instead of being some revolutionary like: "The Citadel is a VI that controls these cycles because the first race, the builders, saw uprising after uprising of Synthetic life in their time, and so created a way to deal with it." 

Instead we get VI kid: "I'm the Guardian! We destroy life over and over because we can't let synthetics win!" Even though he's basically being a hypocrite. You know, Synthetic life destroying all organic life every 50,000 years.

Then of course, there is are the 3 endings. All of which I can work with. Accept the actual endings are all the same... With just slightly different dialog leading up to it, and meaning at the end. However, I wish there was a let Shepard live AND not kill the Geth and Edi.

The endings also raise some questions:
1: How did the crew get back to the ship? They were all on the planet kicking ass with me.
2: Why was joker in FTL running away from the energy thing?
3: Why were the Mass Effect engines on the Normandy Destroyed? 
4: Was ALL Mass Effect technology destroyed?
5: What happened to the HUGE FREAKING FLEET that was over Earth? How will they get home?

To sum up, the idea behind the endings could have worked. But in the execution of them, we are left with WAY to many unanswered questions, and no extra story to tell us how the galaxy sorts its self out.
On a side note: I forsee DLC EXPLAINING how it all works out! 

PS: WTB: Taking Back Omega DLC.

Edit:
Additional Questions:

What planet did they crash on?
Is there any technological development now?
What are the circumstances of the post reaper invasion recovery?
Are all the races that helped with the Earth liberation stuck on Earth now?
Since the Mass Relays are destroyed, is it even possible to travel between stars now?
Who was the Ghost Child at the end?
What happened to all the ME2 crew members? Live/die?
If the Crucible was the development of many races over many cycles, how was the information kept from the Reapers for so long?
Why was I expected to understand a decision that fundamentally changed the galaxy based on a few sentences from a Ghost Child?
How precisely would changing the DNA of the Galaxy to a tech/organic matrix prevent the inevitable wars between the constructed and the non-constructed?
If my LI lived, what happed to him/her/it?
If the Reapers kept saying that Shepard was unable to understand their motives, why was it so easy for a Ghost Child to explain it at the end?



Non-Setting questions:

Why was it preferable to have the endings be so similar in result rather then having dramatically different endings based on the player choices they consistently advertised? 


Exactly, though in reality it was probably this:

Bioware: So EA we have these really good endings but we need another year to make the game.
EA: Shut up and just ship it in 2012, and add a stupid Deus Ex Machina wrap up. The movie goers love that one.
Bioware: Uh what?
EA: Why are you still here...