1317 réponses à ce sujet

[Beras]

Agreed, Laser.

Do your research before you assume that we're all terrible for being angry with something that disappointed us, this is our opinion...

To put it nicely, deal with it. If you have your own, I'll respect it... but don't insult us.

[Rawael]

Yeah, we don't have that here. Which obviously creates a problem for all the people who still don't get that games are just another form of art. Created by artists. Ultimately in the way, THEY imagined it. I can somewhat understand that this is not always easy to accept, but in the end, what it comes down to is that most of you don't agree with how the author chose to finish his piece of art. And you're free to do that, of course, however, I was always under the impression that the people playing Mass Effect were somewhat more open minded.

[SonicAF]

Rawael wrote...

Finally I understand why Hollywood is always so scared to introduced a non-happy ending.

Very disappointed by the community.

If we only had TWO MORE OPTIONS(good and terribad) I would play it again, again, again and again with different endings or not. But it's a torture. I want to play this game MOAR(it's the best one in this world nowadays) but there is no reason.

Modifié par SonicAF, 09 mars 2012 - 04:26 .

[nitefyre410]

Thanks Fairborne that post sums up how a feel nicely... because more I try to think about it more annoyed I get with the whole thing.

[Zeroscape]

Rawael wrote...

Finally I understand why Hollywood is always so scared to introduced a non-happy ending.

Very disappointed by the community.

If we can't have a good ending that's hard to achieve, I'd be ok with that. Sacrificing with the knowledge that you're saving your LI, crew and galaxy should be enough to be accept it. It would still hurt people, but in a way that makes them appreciate the sacrifice even more.

It doesn't help that we're presented with three choices to solve the cycle in a hastily explained 2 minute section that doesn't feel like it fits as it is right now.

Yet, I honestly don't think the tone of the ending is the problem. It's the execution and the lack of an epilogue that explains what happens to the characters and galaxy we just saved. Right now we have jarring transitions to scenes that make us go "huh?" and a super cryptic "one more story..." post-credits bit that suggests we have DLC incoming.

But what people are feeling right now is the lack of closure rather than the taste of a bitter end.

[Sywen]

Rawael wrote...

Yeah, we don't have that here. Which obviously creates a problem for all the people who still don't get that games are just another form of art. Created by artists. Ultimately in the way, THEY imagined it. I can somewhat understand that this is not always easy to accept, but in the end, what it comes down to is that most of you don't agree with how the author chose to finish his piece of art. And you're free to do that, of course, however, I was always under the impression that the people playing Mass Effect were somewhat more open minded.

There was nothing artful about the ending.  It was illogical, out of character and did not fit in at all with the rest of the story..  Games are suppose to be fun.  I love replaying them.  The rest of the game was fun, thoughtful, and made me cry in good way.  The ending made me so bitter I can never play any of the Mass Effect games again.

So yeah its their game, they can choose to ruin an entire series for me,  Just don't expect me to support them in anything else.

[Rawael]

lasertank wrote...

Rawael wrote...

Finally I understand why Hollywood is always so scared to introduced a non-happy ending.

Very disappointed by the community.

Again. It is not the non-happy ending pissed us off. It's the problematic and illogical story killed the trilogy. The ending is simply a breaking point. The plot always disappoint us from the very beginning of the battle between reaper fleet and the allied fleet. Suggest you go through the whole diiscussion thread.

Actually, there were multiple instances were the story hinted at a greater concept behind the reaper threat. Starting on Virmere or for example in the temple of Thessia. Granted, they were small, but they were there.

Also: what is actually 'logical' in a story and if it's even important is a much bigger debate. Furthermore, whether it is problematic or not is absolutly debatable as well.

But I don't think I will find much common ground here. If most of you are so hellbent on being disappointed by an ending that is out of your comfort zone, go ahead, I won't stop you. I for one enjoyed, especially because it made me think and was able to surprise me in a way I never imagined. I loved it and I'm very happy that we didn't get a generic "you're the ultimate hero, able to both save the galaxy as well as your own life while also find happiness and peace". Not only wouldn't it have fit the direction the story was going, it also would have put Mass Effect in a long line of generic, boring and uninspired sci-fi storys.

[Beras]

This community is fighting tooth and nail for what it believes it. I see nothing wrong with that. It may be the artist's creation, but we also paid our money to play the game that we thought would be the definitive end for the trilogy... the one where we would see the end of the threat that we've fought for so long... yet we get pranked basically.

Again, open-mindedness only goes so far.

Personally I'm feeling a lack of closure, and a lack of a "Paragon" ending... I've strived to keep my romances going, my Love Interest's alive...all I wanted to see was a Shepard after all of it, living with his LI and raising a child... his child... maybe I'm a sap... but it's what I've wanted ever since the discussion of Little Blue Children in ME2:LOTSB.

[Untamed_skies]

I don't think the two more options with the other three would be acceptable. I think people are too focused on paragon or renegade. The problem with the ending isn't that it wasn't happy, it isn't that it was bittersweet. It isn't even the concept they came up with is uninteresting or bland. (I havn't played Deus Ex but I have seen the Matrix revolution and that is exactly what the reapers are basically). It's that they started telling a different story in the closing moments of the story they were on.

The author is free to end whatever it is the author is doing, but the reason there is a backlash is because there isn't a cause or explanation for the events that took place, it's like kinda the same idea of watching Star Wars and then suddenly the very end of Return of the Jedi is traded out for Wrath of Kahn. It just doesn't fit with everything you're doing. This was the end of Shepard regardless if they were going to make more endings,as such the ending should reflect everything Shepard did, as this is Shepard's story not the galaxy's, not the reapers, not the mass relays. It's just poor writing, and it's blown out of proportion because the third game spends 99% of the time being about surviving, keeping the cycle going and stopping the reapers. And at the last 2nd changes it's mind tells you you're wrong and that it's really a conflict of philosophy over synthetics and organics.

It's the right ending for the universe but they did it on the wrong game and they did it in the wrong way. It's the best way I can describe it.

[Fyurian2]

Reading through this, the ending(s) remind me more of the endings of Throne of Bhaal, but without an epilogue to explain the outcomes and fates of characters, and an alignment that mattered to two of the endings.
Just Buzz Aldrin voicing an old man recounting the "story of Sheperd" to his grandson on some distant world.

It does bring a feeling of disappointment, but I honestly hope they don't pull a Bethesda and give us a "Sheperd Survived" DLC. I like Broken Steel, but it cheapened the sacrifice of the player at the initial end of Fallout3.

[laughing sherpa girl]

I dont care if someone is disappointed in the community or not. What it boils down too, is that ME is a consumer product, produced for sales to the public at large. Consumerism works on the principal of supply and demand, and the market always serves the consumer, not the other way around. if the supply for our demands is not there, too bad for that supplier. We spend our money elsewhere, which through the centuries has put several large companies out of business.
We demand better than what we got, because what we got made anything we had invested before completely worthless. And we know Bioware can do a much much better job. We simply dont like being shoved off like we're moronic putz's while they try to pull a fast one on us.

[Faraborne]

 The most universal complaint with the ending of Mass Effect 3 is the lack of closure.  Many fans, myself included, probably could have forgiven inconcistent narrative style and glaring plotholes; but none of us can look beyond and ignore the complete lack of closure given to the characters we have come to know and love in Mass Effect.

Let me preface by saying that I (and like many other players) never expected a complete "happy ending" to Mass Effect.  We all knew there would be casualities, in fact we expected and hoped for this!  You cannot defeat the Reapers easily.  I personally think the genocidal scale of the game was more than sufficient for this, but I can understand the writers wanting to stretch the limits and make the ending even more emotionally jarring.

Unfortunately, the writers didn't make the ending more bittersweet or emotionally jarring, just hollow, annoying, and depressing.  Instead of pointing out errors in the writing, for this problem I think it is more effective to suggest possible solutions and then feel out the response from other fans.

First, simply include a text style epilogue.  This would answer very simply (not sufficiently but a little) the fate of the characters we have grown emotionally connected with.  What happened to Grunt?  Was he killed on Earth?  Did Jack keep her students alive?  Were Miranda and Oriana able to each find a life after Cerberus?  Did Admiral Hackett survive?  Are Garrus and Shepherd going to share that drink at the bar in the sky?  Will the Quarians return to Rannoch since the Mass Relays are destroyed?  What is the fate of Palaven, Thessia, Tuchanka, etc?

If these were questions you were planning to address in DLC...well that is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard if that's the case.

Next, I'd like to address the lack of closure with your love interest.  (I chose to continue my romance with Ashley Williams so I cannot speak to the other characters...feedback if my feelings are consistent and universal would be appreciated)  The final bit of dialogue with Ashley Williams on Earth was incredibly moving and gave me the motivation to turn the Galaxy over, face a Reaper mono y mono, walk to the very gates of Hell and emerge again, etc just to get back to Ashley Williams.  Strangely, I was prepared (and though it would have been heart-wrenching it would have been satisfying) for Ashley Williams to die.  However, if this path was chosen, it should have been played up and made very clear for it to achieve full emotional impact.  Instead, I was forced to assume Ashley had been killed by Harbinger with absolutely no confirmation or denial.  Frankly, during the entire confrontation with the Ilussive Man on the Citadel, I couldn't have cared less about what he was saying I was so singularly focused on the fate of Ashley Williams.  Though many people be surprised by this, I was prepared and ok with Shepherd's death, even Ashley Williams death.  However, I can never be okay with complete lack of closure on this point.  Furthermore, not putting this in the final cut of the game is inexcusable.

But wait!  There's more!  Guess what she's not dead!  She just walked off the ship practically hand-in-hand with Joker and smiling about being marooned on a jungle planet.  Now they're going to go populate said jungle paradise.

Excuse me...

RRRRRRAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGEEEEEEE MODE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  GRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrr ack ack ack ack *puke guts up* WWWWHHHHHAAAAATTTT????????????

Ok, I'm composed again.  Need I say more.

Yes I do.  Forgetting that this plot point is sickeningly forced and filled with so many holes (as established previously) it is entirely out of character with Ashley Williams.  She stated repeatedly how she already lost Commander Shepherd and she couldn't live without him.  The can only think of two likely responses Ashley Williams would have to the end situation.  One, she dies trying to make it to the Citadel refusing to return to the Normandy.  Or, upon arriving at the jungle planet and realizing Shepherd's death, she puts her own gun to her head and pulls the trigger.

If Bioware wanted Shepherd to die--and possibly his love interest--why not have both of them make it to the Citadel where Shepherd's LI would choose to die with Shepherd in his sacrifice.  I would be able to look beyond all of my previous problems with the ending if this were the case.  I doubt everyone will share my sentiment, but that alone would have been a sufficient amount of closure for me.

I'm sure I cannot speak universally on the lack of closure the fans feel from ME3 but I hope this post can help all fans and Bioware understand how lacking the end of ME3 really is.

[Xellith]

Id rather they would have just soprano'd us and cut to black after shepard passed out on the platform. The current endings are disgusting.

[Beras]

Personally... I just want to see my Shepard and Liara happy together... I'd get the DLC just for closure that I'd enjoy.

To end the series with a smile on my face, ya' know?


(P.S. The polls are coming back pretty lopsided... I think it's fairly evident that most people feel disappointed)

Modifié par Beras, 09 mars 2012 - 04:40 .

[Faraborne]

Fyurian2 wrote...

It does bring a feeling of disappointment, but I honestly hope they don't pull a Bethesda and give us a "Sheperd Survived" DLC. I like Broken Steel, but it cheapened the sacrifice of the player at the initial end of Fallout3.

I've kept quiet about it, but I strongly believe that the comparison between Fallout 3 and Mass Effect 3 is a very bad one (I'm not disagreeing with you, rather many other people who have made this comparison).  The ending for Fallout 3 was entirely consistent with the tone of that game and I found it to have wonderful closure and immensely emotionally satisfying.  I remember thinking how that Fallout 3's main story and ending would make an excellent movie.

Mass Effect 3's ending doesn't even begin to approach Fallout 3.  Fallout 3 was consisent, logical, emotionally involving, filled with closure, etc etc everything and ending should be.  Mass Effect 3's ending had none of this.

[lasertank]

Rawael wrote...

Actually, there were multiple instances were the story hinted at a greater concept behind the reaper threat. Starting on Virmere or for example in the temple of Thessia. Granted, they were small, but they were there.

Also: what is actually 'logical' in a story and if it's even important is a much bigger debate. Furthermore, whether it is problematic or not is absolutly debatable as well.

But I don't think I will find much common ground here. If most of you are so hellbent on being disappointed by an ending that is out of your comfort zone, go ahead, I won't stop you. I for one enjoyed, especially because it made me think and was able to surprise me in a way I never imagined. I loved it and I'm very happy that we didn't get a generic "you're the ultimate hero, able to both save the galaxy as well as your own life while also find happiness and peace". Not only wouldn't it have fit the direction the story was going, it also would have put Mass Effect in a long line of generic, boring and uninspired sci-fi storys.

Like I said, if the writer wants to give a Matrix-like ending, he or she better pace the story more carefully. I don't think the whole story of ME3 matches of basic tone of ME1 & 2. Of course you can express your satisfaction with ME3 here and I won't stop you, either. However like you said, this is an art, produced by those who wish to be appreciated but also can be criticized. And in my opinion the narrative and story of ME3 isn't as good as it was in ME1 and 2. Not even close to good.

[Valk72]

Rawael wrote...

Finally I understand why Hollywood is always so scared to introduced a non-happy ending.

Very disappointed by the community.

I don't think it's the non happy ending the problem, but the lack of choice. I do like the ending, they are really dakr and sad and that's pretty original, but when you look at it closer that's the same ending with different effect, and the choice you made in the game don't have  as much impact as expected. What i don't understad, is why the dev team didn't think of an alternative ending with a paragon/renegade dialogue option for the players who have the quarian and geth making peace? After all, the peace bewteen those two races, one synthetic and the over one organic proves that the reaper are wrong and that organics and synthetic can co-exist peacefully. 

I'm sure it wouldn't have been too difficult to add for the dev-team and would have saved them from the heat they are currently taking. 

[Militarized]

Rawael wrote...

lasertank wrote...

Rawael wrote...

Finally I understand why Hollywood is always so scared to introduced a non-happy ending.

Very disappointed by the community.

Again. It is not the non-happy ending pissed us off. It's the problematic and illogical story killed the trilogy. The ending is simply a breaking point. The plot always disappoint us from the very beginning of the battle between reaper fleet and the allied fleet. Suggest you go through the whole diiscussion thread.

Actually, there were multiple instances were the story hinted at a greater concept behind the reaper threat. Starting on Virmere or for example in the temple of Thessia. Granted, they were small, but they were there.

Also: what is actually 'logical' in a story and if it's even important is a much bigger debate. Furthermore, whether it is problematic or not is absolutly debatable as well.

But I don't think I will find much common ground here. If most of you are so hellbent on being disappointed by an ending that is out of your comfort zone, go ahead, I won't stop you. I for one enjoyed, especially because it made me think and was able to surprise me in a way I never imagined. I loved it and I'm very happy that we didn't get a generic "you're the ultimate hero, able to both save the galaxy as well as your own life while also find happiness and peace". Not only wouldn't it have fit the direction the story was going, it also would have put Mass Effect in a long line of generic, boring and uninspired sci-fi storys.

Uhm... ripping off Deus Ex's ending was inspired? I thought up 5 different answers/things to say to the sky wizard kid that's going to wave his space wand to fix things because we plugged something into him. It's ridiculous, UNINSPIRED and lazy writing. They obviously wanted to pretend to be "deep thinkers" so went with this obvious last minute plot device to avoid "the hero" ending to give a facade of artsy intellect but instead it has fallen flat on it's face due to it's epic fail not just emotionally but logically and the through execution. 

I saw the citadel kid coming a mile away right before the end but I was thinking, even if they did that... they have to include the concept of your choices matter still right? Like he'll analyze what you did and base his new decisions off of those. NOPE.. you get the Mass Effect philosophy flipped on it's head into determinism and then pidgeon-holed into 3 flavors of vanilla with food coloring to make them seem different. 


I have no idea how you find this "inspired" or different. 

[movieguyabw]

Durdens Wrath wrote...


I think EA has finally managed to turn BioWare into Obsidian (who had the previous record for worst ending with KOTOR 2)

I know I'm going back a page, and all, but honestly, KOTOR 2's ending wasn't so bad.  It was incomplete, yes.  However if you look at what they had planned, KOTOR 2's ending was originally intended to be like the suicide mission in ME2.  What stopped them was Lucasarts giving them a very limited timetable to complete the game.  However, it still wasn't *bad*.  Villain has a goal that is at conflict with the Hero.  Hero and villain fight.  Hero wins, and depending on the choices you made throught the game (ie your LS/DS score) your crew either destroys the planet or not.  There are obviously large chunks missing, but it isn't poorly written.


However, the same can not be said about *this* ending. 

[Faraborne]

Xellith wrote...

Id rather they would have just soprano'd us and cut to black after shepard passed out on the platform. The current endings are disgusting.

I was thinking a RickRoll.  That would have been much better than what was there

[VonVerrikan]

I have never been more heartbroken in my life. You guys take all my choices and throw them out the window, you kill everyone and everything I've ever cared about, and you do it seemingly with a smile. You destroy this entire universe and everything we've come to love, and for what?

You owe it to us Bioware. You owe it to your fans who have loved your work for over 5 years now. Give us a changed ending. Give us DLC that makes this all worth it. You know it's not right to leave it like this.. it's just not. So please guys, seriously, change this. Your fans deserve it.

[Zeroscape]

Rawael wrote...

lasertank wrote...

Rawael wrote...

Finally I understand why Hollywood is always so scared to introduced a non-happy ending.

Very disappointed by the community.

Again. It is not the non-happy ending pissed us off. It's the problematic and illogical story killed the trilogy. The ending is simply a breaking point. The plot always disappoint us from the very beginning of the battle between reaper fleet and the allied fleet. Suggest you go through the whole diiscussion thread.

Actually, there were multiple instances were the story hinted at a greater concept behind the reaper threat. Starting on Virmere or for example in the temple of Thessia. Granted, they were small, but they were there.

Also: what is actually 'logical' in a story and if it's even important is a much bigger debate. Furthermore, whether it is problematic or not is absolutly debatable as well.

But I don't think I will find much common ground here. If most of you are so hellbent on being disappointed by an ending that is out of your comfort zone, go ahead, I won't stop you. I for one enjoyed, especially because it made me think and was able to surprise me in a way I never imagined. I loved it and I'm very happy that we didn't get a generic "you're the ultimate hero, able to both save the galaxy as well as your own life while also find happiness and peace". Not only wouldn't it have fit the direction the story was going, it also would have put Mass Effect in a long line of generic, boring and uninspired sci-fi storys.

Way to generalize. You can't just clump together all posters under the "doesn't like bitter endings" category. It's hard to deny that there's a lot of burning questions as a result of the current ending. Coupled with the fact that there's a lack of an epilogue to tie up loose ends it just leaves us with almost no closure.

I realize everyone appreciates different things when looking at a story and I agree with you on the point that the twist ending is interesting. But this is not about finding common ground, Rawael. We did not play the Mass Effect trilogy to go through the same story together. A key aspect to the marketing and drive of the game was player choice.

The story took a mindblowing twist at the end that could've been left as a mystery to be explored in some follow up game. But for THIS game, the final in a trilogy that allowed player choice and gave us the illusion that our actions mattered, the ending was a giant letdown. It's safe to say that Shep got to say the final words he wanted to during the conversations on Earth pre-attack, but the player is left without knowing how their favourite characters ended up.

[Alex Hoang]

Just finished the game and had a blue ending. My feelings are in zero point, in this moment I am sooo depressed, I don't know how I will feel tomorrow during my PROM! Please BioWare do something - DLC whatever but I need a good ending, I have nothing else to say...