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Mass Effect 3 - Endings


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#826
lastpatriot

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Zeroscape wrote...

I'm sure Bioware is reading this thread. The ending is not a bug to be fixed. They have their game sales already so there's no pressure from that direction either.


Yeah, but those sales will likely tank fast over the next few weeks if there isn't a major patch/DLC put out soon.  It doesn't take long for word to get around about how much this ending sucked.  I only bought ME:1 because a friend had it and told me how great it was.  Think about that now - will anyone be telling others how great ME:3 is know how upset they will be at the end?

#827
AscalonD

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I honestly prefer a predictable ending (in which I can actually explore the universe after I saved it)

#828
zer0netgain

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My thoughts to the OP (I'm not reading all these pages first :blink: )

We learned in ME2 that the Reapers claimed to have constructed the Citadel and the mass relays in order to CONTROL the younger races into evolving on the path that they dictated.

It stuck me as odd that ME3 always destroys the Citadel and the relays...no matter your choice, BUT when you think of it, you get three ways to resolve the problem.

1.  Shepard merges with whatever it is that overall controls the Reapers.  His will controls, the Reapers fly off, and organic life is safe...but subject to whatever nature will bring in due time.  Supposedly the creating race(s) behind the Reapers did all they did and imposed the cycles of extinction to prevent synthetics from forever destroying all organic life.  That will no longer be the case.  Presumably, the Reapers (under Shepard's control) fly off somewhere else and leave organics alone.

2.  Shepard destroys the Reapers and the Citadel.  Organic life is now free of the cycle of extinction but subject to whatever nature brings in the future.

3.  Shepard sees a third option (I don't think option 3 is offered but it really is a bit of a secret ending), that rather than have organic and synthetic forever at odds, impose a synthesis where they coexist.

Why destroy the Citadel and mass relays?  To stop locking evolution into a pre-dictated path.  Without mass effect relays, intragalactic travel is not possible.  Mass Effect FTL build up a charge that must be expelled in time and even then it's not fast enough to cross the vast  distances between star clusters.  No relays = life finding new ways to achieve high-speed FTL travel or stay in your star cluster.

No matter what you choose, the cycles END.  The synthesis ending might be best for everyone long-term (least risk of synthetic/organic conflict), but no matter what, life will no longer be locked into a path predetermined by some race millions or billions of years ago.

Modifié par zer0netgain, 09 mars 2012 - 05:10 .


#829
Beras

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What the Fanboy said, haha!

But in all honesty... I just... I feel robbed right now, I truly do.

I am a Paragon in both the game and reality... I help wherever I can... not having a choice like that in this game unlike the other two kind of sucked.

#830
Outreach117

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I don't want to repost my essay of an explanation of my feelings on the ending.  I've said my piece and bioware has since closed the thread, nor do i want to take up about a whole page and a half of this forum, so I'll just use the link.

http://social.biowar...09007/1#9709108

I probably should polish it up and send it as a letter to bioware, which I'm thinking of doing.  It's a good first draft at least, thoughts?

Modifié par Outreach117, 09 mars 2012 - 05:13 .


#831
ynh

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lastpatriot wrote...

Zeroscape wrote...

I'm sure Bioware is reading this thread. The ending is not a bug to be fixed. They have their game sales already so there's no pressure from that direction either.


Yeah, but those sales will likely tank fast over the next few weeks if there isn't a major patch/DLC put out soon.  It doesn't take long for word to get around about how much this ending sucked.  I only bought ME:1 because a friend had it and told me how great it was.  Think about that now - will anyone be telling others how great ME:3 is know how upset they will be at the end?


I probably will. But is there a precedence for this much outrage actually causing Bioware (or any other company for that matter) to worry about sales? The sad truth of the matter is that many people are going to buy ME3 regardless of what is said of it.

#832
movieguyabw

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A lot of people keep saying they should give us just a super good and a super bad ending. I feel we need more than that.

We need several new endings. A super good would be awesome. A less super good, where maybe a few people die, but it's nowhere near as bad as the destroy Reapers ending. A moderately good, that's in between the last one I mentioned, and the Destroy Reapers. And then maybe a super bad.

And these new endings really should reflect more of our choices throughout the series.

The important thing to note is about 95% of fans would DEFY the choices given to us at the end. This has been noted on a lot of other threads, here. If you want us all to have different experiences for our different Shepards, you need to run off that concept. Give us multiple ways and outcomes for us to defy the choices we're given.

#833
Durdens Wrath

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Rawael, what you didn't take into account when you criticized us all, is that not one thing you did in any of the three games matter.  Not one.  There is no choice.  I could have skipped the last two games and still got the same ending.  That is bull.  I don't want a happy ending, I want an ending I had some say in.

If I got the BAD ending in Silenlt Hill it was because I'd earned it.  Here I just pick one of three boxes.  I don't know how you can look me in the eye and say that "space magic" fits the previously established universe.

And the worst thing is, there are ZERO endings where you can lose to the Reapers.  There should be at least one (ala Chrono Trigger - lavos wins)

Modifié par Durdens Wrath, 09 mars 2012 - 05:11 .


#834
Zeroscape

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lastpatriot wrote...

Zeroscape wrote...

I'm sure Bioware is reading this thread. The ending is not a bug to be fixed. They have their game sales already so there's no pressure from that direction either.


Yeah, but those sales will likely tank fast over the next few weeks if there isn't a major patch/DLC put out soon.  It doesn't take long for word to get around about how much this ending sucked.  I only bought ME:1 because a friend had it and told me how great it was.  Think about that now - will anyone be telling others how great ME:3 is know how upset they will be at the end?


You're right, of course. However, I don't think it'll significantly affect sales unless there's a media storm about the ending. A lot of people are going into this game blind to avoid any sort of spoilers. Chances are if people have played ME1 and 2 they will play ME3 regardless. None of the reviews I've seen said much about the ending. This effectively gives Bioware a pass on the ending, sadly.

But I don't know... maybe it really will affect their sales, but I doubt it. 

#835
girres42

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I don't get it! Why would anyone want to be with Olive Oyl anyway? She just left Popeye at the altar because his suit got trashed (Long story...) and she decided to marry Bluto because he had a fully intact suit.... ??!?!? What a harlot.

#836
Valk72

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movieguyabw wrote...

A lot of people keep saying they should give us just a super good and a super bad ending. I feel we need more than that.

We need several new endings. A super good would be awesome. A less super good, where maybe a few people die, but it's nowhere near as bad as the destroy Reapers ending. A moderately good, that's in between the last one I mentioned, and the Destroy Reapers. And then maybe a super bad.

And these new endings really should reflect more of our choices throughout the series.

The important thing to note is about 95% of fans would DEFY the choices given to us at the end. This has been noted on a lot of other threads, here. If you want us all to have different experiences for our different Shepards, you need to run off that concept. Give us multiple ways and outcomes for us to defy the choices we're given.


That's also my take about the ending. The ones we have actually are not the problem, they are not bad and i for one find them interesting and original. The problem is they are the only ones we have , and in a game where your choices should matter, you can't have the three ending of the game that basically do the same thing: divide the galaxy by blowing up the relays and killing your character.

#837
Faraborne

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Zeroscape wrote...

lastpatriot wrote...

Zeroscape wrote...

I'm sure Bioware is reading this thread. The ending is not a bug to be fixed. They have their game sales already so there's no pressure from that direction either.


Yeah, but those sales will likely tank fast over the next few weeks if there isn't a major patch/DLC put out soon.  It doesn't take long for word to get around about how much this ending sucked.  I only bought ME:1 because a friend had it and told me how great it was.  Think about that now - will anyone be telling others how great ME:3 is know how upset they will be at the end?


You're right, of course. However, I don't think it'll significantly affect sales unless there's a media storm about the ending. A lot of people are going into this game blind to avoid any sort of spoilers. Chances are if people have played ME1 and 2 they will play ME3 regardless. None of the reviews I've seen said much about the ending. This effectively gives Bioware a pass on the ending, sadly.

But I don't know... maybe it really will affect their sales, but I doubt it. 


PC Gamer's review was not happy with the ending, but I still respect their review.  Basically, he was saying that the rest of the game was so good it had to get the rating it did.  To be fair to the reviewers too, their appraisal must be much more technical not story driven  (even at that only 1-2% of the story was bad...but for true fans that was enough).

#838
Aran Linvail

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Zeroscape wrote...

lastpatriot wrote...

Zeroscape wrote...

I'm sure Bioware is reading this thread. The ending is not a bug to be fixed. They have their game sales already so there's no pressure from that direction either.


Yeah, but those sales will likely tank fast over the next few weeks if there isn't a major patch/DLC put out soon.  It doesn't take long for word to get around about how much this ending sucked.  I only bought ME:1 because a friend had it and told me how great it was.  Think about that now - will anyone be telling others how great ME:3 is know how upset they will be at the end?


You're right, of course. However, I don't think it'll significantly affect sales unless there's a media storm about the ending. A lot of people are going into this game blind to avoid any sort of spoilers. Chances are if people have played ME1 and 2 they will play ME3 regardless. None of the reviews I've seen said much about the ending. This effectively gives Bioware a pass on the ending, sadly.

But I don't know... maybe it really will affect their sales, but I doubt it. 



Game Sales - I dont think so.

Future DLC sales - Very Possible , whats the point if everyone knows everithyng you do go to waste in the end.

#839
Taleroth

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zer0netgain wrote...

No matter what you choose, the cycles END.  The synthesis ending might be best for everyone long-term (least risk of synthetic/organic conflict), but no matter what, life will no longer be locked into a path predetermined by some race millions or billions of years ago.

A theme that pops up only in the end is not a theme. Yeah, the technology set paths for development. But scorched earth is not the only solution. All the other examples of self-determination in the series are the exact same way. Throughout the series, the option exists for fixing the problem and moving ahead instead of just burning it down.

It'd be one thing if people had been talking about abandoning the relays prior to the ending. We had people instead talking about just building new ones. Replace the relays or just expand the network. That's still self-determination without scorched earth.

Modifié par Taleroth, 09 mars 2012 - 05:17 .


#840
Durdens Wrath

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You're right, of course. However, I don't think it'll significantly affect sales unless there's a media storm about the ending. A lot of people are going into this game blind to avoid any sort of spoilers. Chances are if people have played ME1 and 2 they will play ME3 regardless. None of the reviews I've seen said much about the ending. This effectively gives Bioware a pass on the ending, sadly.

But I don't know... maybe it really will affect their sales, but I doubt it


I do feel lied to.  hudson said that my choices would matter.  They have zero impact.
BioWare under EA has constantly dumbed down their games.  

Modifié par Durdens Wrath, 09 mars 2012 - 05:19 .


#841
zm6148

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I am fine with the destruction of the mass relays.it is the only way to be free from the shackle imposed by the child/guardian/god thingy.

I just dont get why Normandy has to crash on some unknown planet.did Admiral Hackett order the full retreat at the last moment? why would he do that? why not just let Normandy crash landed on earth, so if

1, Shepard sacrificed him self, his dog tag can be find by surviving crew
2, Shepard was dying, he could die in the arms of his love, or at very least, surrounded by friends

letting Shepard die alone is just too cruel.

#842
AscalonD

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I think what most of us are getting at is that, we are not willing to continue buying DLCs, because it's not worth it, all your decision mean nothing. Unless they get a new ending DLC, then I am done with the series and any game made by Bioware

#843
Heldenbrand

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The theme of this series has never been about synthetic life versus organic life; that was contained solely within a subplot found between the Quarians and the Geth. In this capacity it was addressed beautifully providing the player the choice to make that determination to answer the question: do we have a soul?

The theme to Mass Effect, from the very start, has been that through unity and perseverance they can survive. The Paragon options generally bring this unity through diplomacy, whereas Renegade does it through force or deceit. If Shepard is our extension and avatar through humanity, then our other crew members represent the various Council races. Asari, Turian, Salarian, Krogan, and Quarian, even Geth; we care about their races because of these crew members and through them we witness their plights and struggles. Through our actions in the series we can doom not only the crew member, but often times their very civilizations.

In the ending all the choices we have made or effort we have put forth in the previous two games means absolutely nothing. As described by so many others here, the entirety of the series can be broken down into three choices; three choices that do not reflect the character I have created or how hard the races fought to survive. They worked as one not only to escape death, but to preserve their way of life. One way or another all that has been lost in those three choices presented to us.

Paragon or Renegade it doesn't matter, we're not upset at the Renegade ending or the Paragon ending; we're upset because we have neither. We do not see the consequences of the decisions we made in the game or in the prior, we only see the consequences of a single choice. It breaks down the very thing that made Mass Effect special to us; narrative choice and impact of our decisions. This horrific ending could haven been tolerated in Mass Effect 2, because we knew more was coming, but at the end of Shepard's story it is agonizing to us that we have wasted hundreds of hours and years playing and waiting.

#844
siefier25

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Heres something I don't understand. Before the release of ME3, bioware stated that there would be more ME games, not containing Shepard and company because this would be the conclusion to Shepard's story.

But if the ME relays are toasts(ME stands for MASS EFFECT), than how can they even do another ME story? The relays are the reason why the game was named Mass Effect in the first place. If they are destroyed, how will everyone be able to travel from system to system? Wouldn't it take years?

Yep, Bioware jacked up the endings with the charcters acting out of character at the very end(and the inconsistency of your squad mate surviving when your squad was wiped out by Harbinger), but they also made it so NO other ME games can be made. Even tho they said the series would continue. Maybe they jumped the gun on those plans...?

#845
Durdens Wrath

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zm6148 wrote...

I am fine with the destruction of the mass relays.it is the only way to be free from the shackle imposed by the child/guardian/god thingy.

I just dont get why Normandy has to crash on some unknown planet.did Admiral Hackett order the full retreat at the last moment? why would he do that? why not just let Normandy crash landed on earth, so if

1, Shepard sacrificed him self, his dog tag can be find by surviving crew
2, Shepard was dying, he could die in the arms of his love, or at very least, surrounded by friends

letting Shepard die alone is just too cruel.


The Normandy problem and the child god thing did not fit In with every thing else.  It felt like the beginning of The holy grail where everyone got sacked and it was rushed and cheaply done

#846
Beras

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Damnit Heldenbrand, I could not have said it better myself!

Agreed!

#847
TheShinySword

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Heldenbrand wrote...

The theme of this series has never been about synthetic life versus organic life; that was contained solely within a subplot found between the Quarians and the Geth. In this capacity it was addressed beautifully providing the player the choice to make that determination to answer the question: do we have a soul?

The theme to Mass Effect, from the very start, has been that through unity and perseverance they can survive. The Paragon options generally bring this unity through diplomacy, whereas Renegade does it through force or deceit. If Shepard is our extension and avatar through humanity, then our other crew members represent the various Council races. Asari, Turian, Salarian, Krogan, and Quarian, even Geth; we care about their races because of these crew members and through them we witness their plights and struggles. Through our actions in the series we can doom not only the crew member, but often times their very civilizations.

In the ending all the choices we have made or effort we have put forth in the previous two games means absolutely nothing. As described by so many others here, the entirety of the series can be broken down into three choices; three choices that do not reflect the character I have created or how hard the races fought to survive. They worked as one not only to escape death, but to preserve their way of life. One way or another all that has been lost in those three choices presented to us.

Paragon or Renegade it doesn't matter, we're not upset at the Renegade ending or the Paragon ending; we're upset because we have neither. We do not see the consequences of the decisions we made in the game or in the prior, we only see the consequences of a single choice. It breaks down the very thing that made Mass Effect special to us; narrative choice and impact of our decisions. This horrific ending could haven been tolerated in Mass Effect 2, because we knew more was coming, but at the end of Shepard's story it is agonizing to us that we have wasted hundreds of hours and years playing and waiting.


I've been trying very hard to find the words to express this very thing. I agree wholeheartidly. 

#848
Ainyan42

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See, simple closure wouldn't be enough for me. A simple text epilogue tacked on to the end of those endings would not satisfy me. Why?

Because everything I did over the course of three games DID NOT MATTER. Because in the end, the stubborn, fiery, hope-obsessed Shepard that I played transformed into some mewling child who pathetically went off to a fate without so much as a feeble protest. What does it matter that she nearly died to stop Sovereign and save the Citadel in the first game? What does it matter that she nearly died stopping the Collectors in the second game to save humanity and ultimately the other races? What does it matter that in the third game she: Appeased the Batarians and gained access to their remaining fleet, patched up an old grudge between the Krogan and the Salarians/Turians, meanwhile curing the Krogan of the genophage, convinced the Asari that they were also part of the galaxy and should help, and (most importantly to the ending), resolved a centuries long war between the synthetic Geth and their organic creators the Quarians, in which the Geth and Quarians not only stopped killing each other, but were actually HELPING EACH OTHER rebuild their lives, TOGETHER, on Rannoch?

The fact is, those three endings ensure that absolutely nothing I did mattered. I ended the game with 6982 total assets (pretty much max, with a few points missing). I ended the game max Paragon. I had the same three choices I would have had as someone with half of my score. Destroy the Reapers (oh, and destroy all the Geth and EDI - essentially committing genocide on two complete races and murdering a member of my crew), control the Reapers (destroying all of the mass relays in the process, ensuring that this newly unified galaxy that I worked so effing hard to get together IS NO LONGER UNIFIED) a la Illusive Man - a man I spent the past three games /hating/, or synthesize all organic and synthetic life together, creating a 'perfect' species (oh, and destroying all of the mass relays, ensuring that this newly unif... blah, blah, blah) but forsaking everything that made each of the individual races, both organic and synthetic, unique and special.

Maybe I can't see the 'art' in those endings - but if I want metaphysical philosophy, I'll go to church or call up my philosophy professor from a few semesters ago. A video game whose focus has been hope, survival, and choice is not the correct platform to suddenly discuss the meaning of life and chaos theory. It's too fourth wall. I didn't play Mass Effect 3 expecting that every emotion I felt, every sacrifice I felt keenly, every choice I made - would not ultimately matter. I played Mass Effect 3 expecting to have to make hard choices, to feel overwhelming emotion, and to ultimately have to sacrifice /something/ in order to break the cycle and uplift these UNIFIED races as the new truth in the galaxy.

Did I expect a Disney ending? Yes and no. I expected that I would have to play a 100% game in order to see Shepard survive with her LI, to see the races come together as one and help to rebuild their lives together, to acknowledge that countless sacrifices have been made, but ultimately, those sacrifices MATTERED because we destroyed the Big Bad, saved the galaxy, and now can start the healing process, together. I expected there would be a very good chance I would forget something, make some choice, that resulted in Shepard dying, but the galaxy surviving and having to rebuild. And I would have accepted that, knowing that if I played through again, I could potentially see the end of my story in a different fashion. I even expected that there would be an ending where the Reapers would overpower us because I just couldn't do enough to ensure the galaxy's survival. Failure should be an option.

What I got was three endings that were essentially the same. Even though Shepard proved that order can come from chaos (the galaxy united) and that AI doesn't always have to destroy its creators (EDI and the Geth/Quarian resolution), when confronted by the child AI, she doesn't even make a token effort to hold these hard-won truths up as a shield against the dissolution of reality. She just says 'Okay' and stumbles off to selflessly sacrifice herself in order to... destroy everything she just created. (Or, yeah, she could have "survived" - at the cost of two races, one of which she just redeemed by allowing the sacrifice of one of her dearest friends and the destruction of a synthetic being she just helped learn what it meant to LIVE, and STILL destroying everything that united the galaxy together.) They took MY STORY away from me in the last 15 minutes of the game and twisted it into THEIR STORY - even though one of the selling points of Mass Effect has always been that cHOICE matters and that you aren't playing their story, you're creating your own. (See, I could have accepted this with more aplomb from a game like King's Quest, where you're essentially following in the character's footsteps. Mass Effect was billed as a game where you control the outcome, where your choices dictate the ultimate ending.)

I had been working on a 100% playthrough of ME1, and had been planning on another with a few different choices that I could take into ME2, where I planned to play through several times in order to have some more 100% saves with several different choices, because I wanted to see how they played out in ME3. Now I can't even look at my desktop background of Shepard from ME1 without feeling my stomach drop out from under me. The endings of ME3 - the lack of closure, the utter gutlessness of Shepard, the despair from knowing that the hundreds of hours I spent playing the games meant /nothing/ - have destroyed any chance I might ever want to replay the game - any of the games - again. And that in itself enough to make me want to cry, because I have never enjoyed a game series as much as I do Mass Effect, nor has a game series obsessed me so much since I was playing the Q4G games back in the day.

And now I wish I'd never played them.

That right there makes me want to break down and cry some more.

#849
lastpatriot

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Heldenbrand wrote...

The theme of this series has never been about synthetic life versus organic life; that was contained solely within a subplot found between the Quarians and the Geth. In this capacity it was addressed beautifully providing the player the choice to make that determination to answer the question: do we have a soul?

The theme to Mass Effect, from the very start, has been that through unity and perseverance they can survive. The Paragon options generally bring this unity through diplomacy, whereas Renegade does it through force or deceit. If Shepard is our extension and avatar through humanity, then our other crew members represent the various Council races. Asari, Turian, Salarian, Krogan, and Quarian, even Geth; we care about their races because of these crew members and through them we witness their plights and struggles. Through our actions in the series we can doom not only the crew member, but often times their very civilizations.

In the ending all the choices we have made or effort we have put forth in the previous two games means absolutely nothing. As described by so many others here, the entirety of the series can be broken down into three choices; three choices that do not reflect the character I have created or how hard the races fought to survive. They worked as one not only to escape death, but to preserve their way of life. One way or another all that has been lost in those three choices presented to us.

Paragon or Renegade it doesn't matter, we're not upset at the Renegade ending or the Paragon ending; we're upset because we have neither. We do not see the consequences of the decisions we made in the game or in the prior, we only see the consequences of a single choice. It breaks down the very thing that made Mass Effect special to us; narrative choice and impact of our decisions. This horrific ending could haven been tolerated in Mass Effect 2, because we knew more was coming, but at the end of Shepard's story it is agonizing to us that we have wasted hundreds of hours and years playing and waiting.


This statement is 100% right on track and should be our mission statement!   Perhaps if I uninstall ME:3 I can pretend like I never saw how it ends and then the pain will go away?

#850
Beras

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Doubtful, un-installing will just take more of your time.